digest number 7630

[Don S]

When you think of it, lowering the suspension a bit might be a disappointment to some but it will also be an opportunity for many. Lowering the overall seat height by one to two inches will allow many shorter legged riders a chance to safely ride a KLR. Therefore, KHI may have opened up a fairly large market segment just by making a minor change to the physics of the machine. Smart marketing move. Don Thor Lancelot Simon wrote:

On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 07:06:35AM -0000, E.L. Green wrote: > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Criswell > wrote: > > I'm sold (mostly). If they keep the price down, I'll buy one. Don't > > know why on the less travel suspension though .... but if it is a > > better fork and rear maybe no big deal. And wish they would have put > > a 6 gear in. Like the color. It matches my Concourse. > > The reason the front suspension has less travel is that it is a direct > transplant off the KLE500, from what I can tell. That means it should > also be cheaper than the old front suspension, since the KLE is a much > more popular bike world-wide and thus they have the economies of scale > at work with the KLE forks. The "new" dual-pot front calipers came > from the KLE too. The Israeli Army uses the KLE -- that says good things to me about the suitability of its suspension for off-road work. I guess we'll see! There seems to be a certain tendency towards stiffening and shortening the suspensions of dual-sport bikes. Even the 'S' model of the KTM 950 lost a couple of inches of suspension travel in the last model year (of course, perhaps they are not as worried about race homologation now that it is excluded from the Dakar rally by the rule changes). Thor --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1 /min. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Bogdan Swider" wrote:

> On 9/23/06 10:58 AM, "CA Stu" wrote: > > > http://www.motorcycledaily.com/23september06_klr650.htm > > I don't understand why in this day and time they didn't go for fuel > injection. BMW singles - thus fitted - get 70 mpg. > > Bogdan

Hi Bogdan, Maybe a little story would help explain it all. It is all a matter of wheel barrows and Franklins (for bait). First: get your wheel barrow, and the one from the neighbor second: fill your wheel barrow up with Franklins (aka 100 bills, appox 120 will be enough) sigh... add eight more Franklins for the 6% tax... third: point the wheel barrow at the BMW dealership and start walking four: arrive early: dump wheel barrow at the front door and hide in the bushes five: (optional) attach monofilament line to one package of Franklins...shake the line vigorously: attracts the salesman's attention if he does not initially find the 'bait' for a bike equipped with fuel injection. six: surrender the bait when the first BMW 650 passes by seven: (accomplished at the same time as five and six: go back to the garage: paint FARKLE-FUND on the side of the second wheel barrow and begin to fill up the wheelbarrow again with Franklins, for the necessary farkle eight: Return to the BMW dealer and Ride away! Begin counting the saving on fuel! You have deserved it! nine: Go back to the BMW dealer with the F-150, and pick up the 'first' wheel barrow; begin filling this wheel barrow with Franklins for replacement plastics ten: Return to the garage; Ride the KLR while filling the wheelbarrow for replacement plastics (repeat as necessary). Keep counting that money saved! THE END (thankyouverymuch) Hope that is helpful! ;~0 Wondering how much R & D would add to the sticker price for having a FI equipped KLR as an upgrade...would it be as much as $2000 retail? $3000? Would they require new heads and a FI pump?... or it could use a manifold injection system and use the same heads, and a gear driven pump, or an electric pump...more R & D...which would mean we get a bigger stator for an electric FI pump. and would the current market of KLR buyers buy it if it were $3K more? Now, 2 answer your question: Personally, I think a lot of KLR riders are KLR riders because the entry fee is 51 Franklins (new), instead of 120 Franklins. Or in my case, 33 Franklins (3 years old, 2505 miles, partially farkled)...yep, just 33 Franklins...that was before the wheelbarrow labeled 'farkle' showed its ugly head.... revmaaatin. Any body out there want to buy a "very-nice" wheelbarrow marked FARKLE-FUND? The neighbor does not want it back

[Mike Peplinski]

I'm going to have a sticker made that says "Kawasaki KLR650 FI" to make these guys happy. Putting FI on a KLR does not turn it into a BMW F650 any more than putting an underpowered air cooled v-twin in a Jap bike into a Harley. The KLR is a "sum of its parts" bike just as the F650 is. The extra 3 grand buys more than just FI. I'm not sure what it buys, but for my hard stolen dollars, I choose KLR.

>From: "revmaaatin" >To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Kawasaki updates the KLR for 2008? >Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 21:15:48 -0000 > >--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Bogdan Swider" wrote: > > > On 9/23/06 10:58 AM, "CA Stu" wrote: > > > > > http://www.motorcycledaily.com/23september06_klr650.htm > > > > I don't understand why in this day and time they didn't go for fuel > > injection. BMW singles - thus fitted - get 70 mpg. > > > > Bogdan > >Hi Bogdan, >Maybe a little story would help explain it all. It is all a matter of >wheel barrows and Franklins (for bait). > >First: get your wheel barrow, and the one from the neighbor >second: fill your wheel barrow up with Franklins (aka 100 bills, >appox 120 will be enough) sigh... add eight more Franklins for the 6% >tax... >third: point the wheel barrow at the BMW dealership and start walking >four: arrive early: dump wheel barrow at the front door and hide in >the bushes >five: (optional) attach monofilament line to one package of >Franklins...shake the line vigorously: attracts the salesman's >attention if he does not initially find the 'bait' for a bike equipped >with fuel injection. >six: surrender the bait when the first BMW 650 passes by >seven: (accomplished at the same time as five and six: go back to >the garage: paint FARKLE-FUND on the side of the second wheel barrow >and begin to fill up the wheelbarrow again with Franklins, for the >necessary farkle >eight: Return to the BMW dealer and Ride away! Begin counting the >saving on fuel! You have deserved it! >nine: Go back to the BMW dealer with the F-150, and pick up >the 'first' wheel barrow; begin filling this wheel barrow with >Franklins for replacement plastics >ten: Return to the garage; Ride the KLR while filling the wheelbarrow >for replacement plastics (repeat as necessary). Keep counting that >money saved! > >THE END (thankyouverymuch) > > >Hope that is helpful! ;~0 > > Wondering how much R & D would add to the sticker price for having a >FI equipped KLR as an upgrade...would it be as much as $2000 retail? >$3000? Would they require new heads and a FI pump?... or it could use >a manifold injection system and use the same heads, and a gear driven >pump, or an electric pump...more R & D...which would mean we get a >bigger stator for an electric FI pump. > >and would the current market of KLR buyers buy it if it were $3K more? > >Now, 2 answer your question: Personally, I think a lot of KLR riders >are KLR riders because the entry fee is 51 Franklins (new), instead of >120 Franklins. Or in my case, 33 Franklins (3 years old, 2505 miles, >partially farkled)...yep, just 33 Franklins...that was before the >wheelbarrow labeled 'farkle' showed its ugly head.... > >revmaaatin. Any body out there want to buy a "very-nice" wheelbarrow >marked FARKLE-FUND? The neighbor does not want it back > > > > > > > >Archive Quicksearch at: >http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >

[Arden Kysely]

Nice story, Rev. My A11 was only 2.6 Franklins, and nicely farkled. That didn't stop me from adding a few of my own, though. I agree that FI would cost more and that the return on gas savings might not cover that in the average lifetime of a KLR (or KLR owner), but there are other benefits to great mileage. Chief among them is you don't need an enormous tank to get great range. At 70mpg, a 4.5 gallon tank would take you over 300 miles. All my bikes are still in carb-land, but FI is looking pretty good to me. __Arden P.S. The BMW site lists the F650GS Dakar for only 82.25 Franklins, don't know where you got 120.

> > Hi Bogdan, > Maybe a little story would help explain it all. It is all a matter

of

> wheel barrows and Franklins (for bait). > > First: get your wheel barrow, and the one from the neighbor > second: fill your wheel barrow up with Franklins (aka 100 bills, > appox 120 will be enough) sigh... add eight more Franklins for the

6%

> tax... > third: point the wheel barrow at the BMW dealership and start

walking

> four: arrive early: dump wheel barrow at the front door and hide

in

> the bushes > five: (optional) attach monofilament line to one package of > Franklins...shake the line vigorously: attracts the salesman's > attention if he does not initially find the 'bait' for a bike

equipped

> with fuel injection. > six: surrender the bait when the first BMW 650 passes by > seven: (accomplished at the same time as five and six: go back to > the garage: paint FARKLE-FUND on the side of the second wheel

barrow

> and begin to fill up the wheelbarrow again with Franklins, for the > necessary farkle > eight: Return to the BMW dealer and Ride away! Begin counting the > saving on fuel! You have deserved it! > nine: Go back to the BMW dealer with the F-150, and pick up > the 'first' wheel barrow; begin filling this wheel barrow with > Franklins for replacement plastics > ten: Return to the garage; Ride the KLR while filling the

wheelbarrow

> for replacement plastics (repeat as necessary). Keep counting that > money saved! > > THE END (thankyouverymuch) > > > Hope that is helpful! ;~0 > > Wondering how much R & D would add to the sticker price for

having a

> FI equipped KLR as an upgrade...would it be as much as $2000

retail?

> $3000? Would they require new heads and a FI pump?... or it could

use

> a manifold injection system and use the same heads, and a gear

driven

> pump, or an electric pump...more R & D...which would mean we get a > bigger stator for an electric FI pump. > > and would the current market of KLR buyers buy it if it were $3K

more?

> > Now, 2 answer your question: Personally, I think a lot of KLR

riders

> are KLR riders because the entry fee is 51 Franklins (new), instead

of

> 120 Franklins. Or in my case, 33 Franklins (3 years old, 2505

miles,

> partially farkled)...yep, just 33 Franklins...that was before the > wheelbarrow labeled 'farkle' showed its ugly head.... > > revmaaatin. Any body out there want to buy a "very-nice"

wheelbarrow

> marked FARKLE-FUND? The neighbor does not want it back >

[Blake Sobiloff]

On 9/26/06, Arden Kysely wrote:

> All my bikes are still in > carb-land, but FI is looking pretty good to me.

Until you try to start your bike with a low battery; no battery==no bump start. -- Blake Sobiloff http://sobiloff.typepad.com/> http://sobiloff.typepad.com/klr_adventure/> San Jose, CA (USA)

[Norm Keller]

There are some big downsides to fuel injection: 1) Requires computer mapped fuel delivery which must be programmed into the ECU in order to meet design requirements. The most common approach is to use a series of "look up pages" which hold the fuel delivery strategy for a set of parameters. Example: engine coolant temperature 200 F; RPM 4,000; throttle position 50%; intake air temperature 70 F; etc. would command a fuel injector opening time of 50% of pulse width. There may be far more parameters! As soon as something deviates from the range of values which is allowed for any one parameter the system changes to a new "look up page". The whole programming is designed for emissions, etc. Here's the rub: if the set-up provides an overly lean or rich condition at any point, the only way to address the problem will to either add some means of fooling the system such as modifying coolant temperature sensor input or reprogramming. There will be no adjusting of the idle mixture screw to make it run better. Bogs at one point in the operation will not be addressed by the owner! If the manufacturer chooses not to bother addressing a driveability issue, it will remain. A small motorcycle system will not likely incorporate an oxygen sensor to the ECU will not have a "learn" mode to allow the porgramming to be modified as the system repeatedly reacts in the same way to the same out of range values. It will never be a sophistocated as a cage system. 2) Modifications to exhaust and intake will result in fuel delivery/ ignition timing problems because the programming will be mislead by effects. 3) Diagnostics may be difficult without an OEM scanner. 4) There is unlikely to be an aftermarket for replacement parts such as fuel pump, TPS (throttle position sensor), ECT (engine coolant temperature sensor), etc. which will require the purchase of expensive OEM parts. 5) The ECU and fuel pump require electrical power which means that starting is now dependent on a healthy electrical system. Depending on output, it may be possible to bump start but one must wonder if KHI will design for that eventuality given the electric start only KLR. She calls.... Norm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[jokerloco9@aol.com]

Look up "power commander" on the internet. It plugs in between computer and bike, and you can download new maps online, or take it to a dyno shop, and get a new map from the dyno info. I have one on my GSXR1000. For common bikes like the GSXR, there are downloadable maps for many common air cleaner and exhaust pipes. No dyno shop needed. Jeff A20 wish I had waited for the 2008, although I hate this computer crap. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Darren Clark]

Yes, this could be a problem. Luckly there is an open-source EFI project that would take care of it. Not only is the software open source, but the hardware too. There is even another guy (besides myself) fuel injecting a KLR-650. check it out at http://www.msefi.com If I were to get an EFI bike and didn't like the tune, I'd rip out the original computer and replace it with an MSEFI computer. I've already done this with a couple of trucks. Darren Clark 2004 KLR-650 (and long ago software developer for MSEFI). Also have MSEFI on 2 of my trucks and Sand Rail. Norm Keller wrote:

> There are some big downsides to fuel injection: > 1) Requires computer mapped fuel delivery which must be programmed > into the ECU in order to meet design requirements. The most common > approach is to use a series of "look up pages" which hold the fuel > delivery strategy for a set of parameters. Example: engine coolant > temperature 200 F; RPM 4,000; throttle position 50%; intake air > temperature 70 F; etc. would command a fuel injector opening time of > 50% of pulse width. There may be far more parameters! As soon as > something deviates from the range of values which is allowed for any > one parameter the system changes to a new "look up page". The whole > programming is designed for emissions, etc. > > Here's the rub: if the set-up provides an overly lean or rich > condition at any point, the only way to address the problem will to > either add some means of fooling the system such as modifying coolant > temperature sensor input or reprogramming. There will be no adjusting > of the idle mixture screw to make it run better. Bogs at one point in > the operation will not be addressed by the owner! > > If the manufacturer chooses not to bother addressing a driveability > issue, it will remain. > > A small motorcycle system will not likely incorporate an oxygen sensor > to the ECU will not have a "learn" mode to allow the porgramming to be > modified as the system repeatedly reacts in the same way to the same > out of range values. It will never be a sophistocated as a cage system. > > 2) Modifications to exhaust and intake will result in fuel delivery/ > ignition timing problems because the programming will be mislead by > effects. > > 3) Diagnostics may be difficult without an OEM scanner. > > 4) There is unlikely to be an aftermarket for replacement parts such > as fuel pump, TPS (throttle position sensor), ECT (engine coolant > temperature sensor), etc. which will require the purchase of expensive > OEM parts. > > 5) The ECU and fuel pump require electrical power which means that > starting is now dependent on a healthy electrical system. Depending on > output, it may be possible to bump start but one must wonder if KHI > will design for that eventuality given the electric start only KLR. > > She calls.... >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Arden Kysely"

> > __Arden > > P.S. The BMW site lists the F650GS Dakar for only 82.25 Franklins, > don't know where you got 120. >

Hi-ya Arden, Please furgiv mi brudder. He tale a goot sturry, butt hee don't dew sew goot on math, ether. yep-per. revmaaachin.

[Donald Dickerson]

FI is nice on a street bike. But just in case you wanna ride off into the boonies, a dead or malfunctioning FI unit sux if you're miles from the nearest road and help. At least with the carb you have a chance. Don Dickerson --- Blake Sobiloff wrote:

> On 9/26/06, Arden Kysely wrote: > > All my bikes are still in > > carb-land, but FI is looking pretty good to me. > > Until you try to start your bike with a low battery; no battery==no > bump start. > -- > Blake Sobiloff > http://sobiloff.typepad.com/> > http://sobiloff.typepad.com/klr_adventure/> > San Jose, CA (USA) >

Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who didn't. "Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure." -- Helen Keller __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com