survival story

[Larry Mazur]

and how much air were in them at the time of the incident??? Larry Mazur

[James Morrow Sr]

He, He all good thought Rev, In many accidents, mine included, everything happens in less than a second as far as the crash. Unless I would have jumped off before the actual crash, I would not have had time to do any contortions, nor been able to overcome the mass and speed of my body. I was going where I was going, period. Jumping off cannot be predicted either. I had a friend killed who jumped off, but hit a pole anyway, as he couldn't stop his body or direction. I think we just have to plan on dumb luck most of the time. I know of a couple who hit a deer at 90 miles an hours, bike totaled and I mean totaled, and they both got up (after sliding a long ways, but not hitting anything except the ground) and dusted themselves off. No damage what so ever. Larry Grodsky (safe riding expert) hit a deer and died. No matter what horizontal speed you are going, 10mph or 150mph, you only hit the ground at 18mph in vertical speed. If you don't hit anything to stop the horizontal speed, you will usually be in good shape if good gear. Its the fact that most street roads do not have good runoff, like a racetrack. And the reason we need to keep speed down on the street. Almost anybody that crashes in most open sport vehicles, will brake the collar bone, it is really vunerable and weak, of course that is to sacrifice itself so other more important bones don't brake. Other than luck, great gear is still your best friend. Not crashing in the first place is even better (G).

On 9/18/06, revmaaatin wrote: > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , > "James Morrow Sr" > wrote: > > SNIP > > Took me 2 weeks to return to work is some pain. > > 6 weeks of painful exercise to have full range of motion. Of > course I am 63 > > years old, keep forgetting that (G). > > > > Make sure you do your exercises, really helps in getting back to > normal. > > Collar bone and ribs have been the most long term pain I have had > to > > experience. > > UNSNIP > > James, > > Thank you for your personal encouragement to Blake, and to me during > my own recovery this past summer. You: Back to work after two > weeks. You are amazing. > > I been thinking... > > There must be a collar bone plague. Or is it a copy cat plague. > Yikes! For the roll call: Guy Young, AJ aka 'Raven' (deer strike in > Aberdeen, SD), James Morrow, the 'revmaaatin', and now Blake, (at > least that is all I know) all in a 12month time frame. Hmmmm. Maybe > it is time to pray for snow and stop the carnage. > > Just some thoughts without much contusion: > > Reflecting about these broken bones, it has caused me to think about > the similarities of experience and training. Last August (05), I > attended MSF course for the first time in Rapid City, SD but there > was not anything (that I remember) in the Advanced Rider Course that > addressed how to successfully handle the unscheduled 'get-off', not > that you ever start out with the thought of -scheduling- a crash. > > Perhaps we need some analysis on how to execute a 'get-off' with the > least amount of damage to the rider. Perhaps there is some > discussion out there that I am unaware of, and someone could share > it with us. > > I was recently watching some of the X-games type stunts where a > wintertime MX-stunt at a ski-lodge went bad and the guy pushed off > the bike during a back flip, (you see it all the time on the mx- > bicycle's). The point being, the rider made a deliberate choice-- > give up on the bike. He was hurt very badly, but at least, he did > not have the bike fall on him. > > In Blake's previous post, he suggested that he did not get his arms > away from the bike and help break the fall, i.e. give up on the > bike! When I read that, I immediately went back to my own collar > bone/rib fracture and I could visually see myself as I rode the > bike, hands on the bars, feet on the pegs until full impact. As I > passed through 89degress of Angle-of-bank, I thought, "this is not > going to work out." Riding the bike, all the way to the accident > site, must be a carry over from my aviation experience, 'keep > slapping switches and moving levers until all violent motion > stops'. Personally, in the moments after impact, I sat there > dumbfounded that I had been 'spit-out' by such a small obstacle > (rut), and how fast I went from the status of rider-in-control to > nothing more than baggage at the crash site. > > I have watched many of the moto-GP riders perform some pretty > spectacular get-offs, but I am not really convinced that they have > much control (after all, it starts in an out of control situation) > of the initial impact, but many seem to exhibit the presence of mind > to get their arms out for a super man slide. Perhaps it is from > some previous thought out actions or sheer blind coincidence aka > luck. > > Slow tipovers allow us the possibility of getting away from the > bike, but any event that involves speed, it seems to me, all bets > are off for getting our hands in front of us. In Blake's event at > 40mph and mine at ~15 mph, it might just be that the broken collar > bone is a smaller 'fee' to pay for the get-off rather than broken > arms, wrist, or more that might occur with the arms in front of us > during an impact. If given the choice between broken arms/wrist over > broken collarbone, I think I would take the collar bone...as for the > ribs...I am not so sure. The ribs are pretty painful. > > Perhaps someone could comment on the plastic roost protectors and > how much rib protection they offer. I have a '661 Pressure Suit' > but post accident examination, I don't think it would have offered > much in the way of additional protection over what I was wearing > last May (Feldsheer, armored ballistic nylon). > > All that said, we can armor for the mild impact, but I doubt that we > could ever armor up to take into account for all possibilities. > > Blake commented about the 'small' amount of damage to the bike, i.e. > mirrors mostly. For a 40mph getoff, He got off cheap. as did I at > only 15mph. My bike equipped with Moose Barkbusters and AL > skidplate, H-T PD nerfbars, HT brake billet and brake reservoir > cover, Dr. Krock's shark fin, and mirror isolators (the items > directly involved with the impact) did the job they were supposed to > do. I was pleased with every dime that I had spent for armor, and > would equip my next KLR with at least these same items. > > From all of this: If you are going to ride to more remote places, > armor up your bike and carefully select your body armor. It is not > a matter of 'will' you fall down, if you ride in remote, difficult > places, you ARE going to fall down. As our friend Jeff Saline often > suggest: "Access [realistically]the amount of risk you are willing > to take when selecting the farkle you put on your bike/body (sic)." > Proof? All I did was remove the dirt stuck in the brake pedal, > adjust the mirrors, and the bike was ready to ride again. Blake had > two broken mirrors, and the speed/forces were exponentially higher > when compared to 15 vs. 40mph. > > Do the most to protect yourself (and your family) by selecting the > best armor you can afford. and. Having a 'smart' riding partner is > also very helpful... and it might be the best armor of all. > > All that said, bike and body armored, go change the gas. > > revmaaatin. 14 weeks after impact, back at it. > 911 Careflight, Aberdeen, SD > (return to duty, 25 Aug) > > > -- James Morrow Sr Union, MO '00' RT + dual plug + Bunkhouse '00' BUSA + 15hp '05' KLR650 + big fun factor [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Andrus Chesley]

> Take up rollerblading. You will swiftly learn how to fall

Can you believe I was advised to take Judo for the same reason way back in '59 for the same reason. It did help on my many exceeding traction trials. '43 Andy in Louisiana '00 KLR650 '02 R1150GSA '03 Chevy Truck

[Ronald Criswell]

I couldn't agree more. The Larry Grodsky crash was ...... well he asked for it riding at night in the Big Bend area of Texas. Full of big, dumb dear. I just couldn't believe a guy who taught motorcycle safety would do that. Criswell

On Sep 18, 2006, at 7:03 PM, James Morrow Sr wrote: > He, He all good thought Rev, > > In many accidents, mine included, everything happens in less than a > second > as far as the crash. Unless I would have jumped off before the actual > crash, I would not have had time to do any contortions, nor been > able to > overcome the mass and speed of my body. I was going where I was going, > period. Jumping off cannot be predicted either. I had a friend > killed who > jumped off, but hit a pole anyway, as he couldn't stop his body or > direction. I think we just have to plan on dumb luck most of the time. > > I know of a couple who hit a deer at 90 miles an hours, bike > totaled and I > mean totaled, and they both got up (after sliding a long ways, but not > hitting anything except the ground) and dusted themselves off. No > damage > what so ever. Larry Grodsky (safe riding expert) hit a deer and died. > > No matter what horizontal speed you are going, 10mph or 150mph, you > only hit > the ground at 18mph in vertical speed. If you don't hit anything to > stop > the horizontal speed, you will usually be in good shape if good > gear. Its > the fact that most street roads do not have good runoff, like a > racetrack. > And the reason we need to keep speed down on the street. > > Almost anybody that crashes in most open sport vehicles, will brake > the > collar bone, it is really vunerable and weak, of course that is to > sacrifice > itself so other more important bones don't brake. > > Other than luck, great gear is still your best friend. Not crashing > in the > first place is even better (G). > > On 9/18/06, revmaaatin wrote: > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com , > > "James Morrow Sr" > > wrote: > > > > SNIP > > > > Took me 2 weeks to return to work is some pain. > > > 6 weeks of painful exercise to have full range of motion. Of > > course I am 63 > > > years old, keep forgetting that (G). > > > > > > Make sure you do your exercises, really helps in getting back to > > normal. > > > Collar bone and ribs have been the most long term pain I have had > > to > > > experience. > > > > UNSNIP > > > > James, > > > > Thank you for your personal encouragement to Blake, and to me during > > my own recovery this past summer. You: Back to work after two > > weeks. You are amazing. > > > > I been thinking... > > > > There must be a collar bone plague. Or is it a copy cat plague. > > Yikes! For the roll call: Guy Young, AJ aka 'Raven' (deer strike in > > Aberdeen, SD), James Morrow, the 'revmaaatin', and now Blake, (at > > least that is all I know) all in a 12month time frame. Hmmmm. Maybe > > it is time to pray for snow and stop the carnage. > > > > Just some thoughts without much contusion: > > > > Reflecting about these broken bones, it has caused me to think about > > the similarities of experience and training. Last August (05), I > > attended MSF course for the first time in Rapid City, SD but there > > was not anything (that I remember) in the Advanced Rider Course that > > addressed how to successfully handle the unscheduled 'get-off', not > > that you ever start out with the thought of -scheduling- a crash. > > > > Perhaps we need some analysis on how to execute a 'get-off' with the > > least amount of damage to the rider. Perhaps there is some > > discussion out there that I am unaware of, and someone could share > > it with us. > > > > I was recently watching some of the X-games type stunts where a > > wintertime MX-stunt at a ski-lodge went bad and the guy pushed off > > the bike during a back flip, (you see it all the time on the mx- > > bicycle's). The point being, the rider made a deliberate choice-- > > give up on the bike. He was hurt very badly, but at least, he did > > not have the bike fall on him. > > > > In Blake's previous post, he suggested that he did not get his arms > > away from the bike and help break the fall, i.e. give up on the > > bike! When I read that, I immediately went back to my own collar > > bone/rib fracture and I could visually see myself as I rode the > > bike, hands on the bars, feet on the pegs until full impact. As I > > passed through 89degress of Angle-of-bank, I thought, "this is not > > going to work out." Riding the bike, all the way to the accident > > site, must be a carry over from my aviation experience, 'keep > > slapping switches and moving levers until all violent motion > > stops'. Personally, in the moments after impact, I sat there > > dumbfounded that I had been 'spit-out' by such a small obstacle > > (rut), and how fast I went from the status of rider-in-control to > > nothing more than baggage at the crash site. > > > > I have watched many of the moto-GP riders perform some pretty > > spectacular get-offs, but I am not really convinced that they have > > much control (after all, it starts in an out of control situation) > > of the initial impact, but many seem to exhibit the presence of mind > > to get their arms out for a super man slide. Perhaps it is from > > some previous thought out actions or sheer blind coincidence aka > > luck. > > > > Slow tipovers allow us the possibility of getting away from the > > bike, but any event that involves speed, it seems to me, all bets > > are off for getting our hands in front of us. In Blake's event at > > 40mph and mine at ~15 mph, it might just be that the broken collar > > bone is a smaller 'fee' to pay for the get-off rather than broken > > arms, wrist, or more that might occur with the arms in front of us > > during an impact. If given the choice between broken arms/wrist over > > broken collarbone, I think I would take the collar bone...as for the > > ribs...I am not so sure. The ribs are pretty painful. > > > > Perhaps someone could comment on the plastic roost protectors and > > how much rib protection they offer. I have a '661 Pressure Suit' > > but post accident examination, I don't think it would have offered > > much in the way of additional protection over what I was wearing > > last May (Feldsheer, armored ballistic nylon). > > > > All that said, we can armor for the mild impact, but I doubt that we > > could ever armor up to take into account for all possibilities. > > > > Blake commented about the 'small' amount of damage to the bike, i.e. > > mirrors mostly. For a 40mph getoff, He got off cheap. as did I at > > only 15mph. My bike equipped with Moose Barkbusters and AL > > skidplate, H-T PD nerfbars, HT brake billet and brake reservoir > > cover, Dr. Krock's shark fin, and mirror isolators (the items > > directly involved with the impact) did the job they were supposed to > > do. I was pleased with every dime that I had spent for armor, and > > would equip my next KLR with at least these same items. > > > > From all of this: If you are going to ride to more remote places, > > armor up your bike and carefully select your body armor. It is not > > a matter of 'will' you fall down, if you ride in remote, difficult > > places, you ARE going to fall down. As our friend Jeff Saline often > > suggest: "Access [realistically]the amount of risk you are willing > > to take when selecting the farkle you put on your bike/body (sic)." > > Proof? All I did was remove the dirt stuck in the brake pedal, > > adjust the mirrors, and the bike was ready to ride again. Blake had > > two broken mirrors, and the speed/forces were exponentially higher > > when compared to 15 vs. 40mph. > > > > Do the most to protect yourself (and your family) by selecting the > > best armor you can afford. and. Having a 'smart' riding partner is > > also very helpful... and it might be the best armor of all. > > > > All that said, bike and body armored, go change the gas. > > > > revmaaatin. 14 weeks after impact, back at it. > > 911 Careflight, Aberdeen, SD > > (return to duty, 25 Aug) > > > > > > > > -- > James Morrow Sr > Union, MO > '00' RT + dual plug + Bunkhouse > '00' BUSA + 15hp > '05' KLR650 + big fun factor > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Bogdan Swider]

On 9/19/06 6:18 AM, "Ronald Criswell" wrote:

> I couldn't agree more. The Larry Grodsky crash was ...... well he > asked for it riding at night in the Big Bend area of Texas. Full of > big, dumb dear. I just couldn't believe a guy who taught motorcycle > safety would do that. > > Criswell >

` I read that he couldn't find a motel room and therefore had to ride to the next town. I guess the lesson here is to stop well before dark - in case it's only the first try at calling it a day. If you want to cover miles that's not easy to do during the times of year when the days are short. Bogdan

[usa1911a1]

We have a lot of deer around here and I follow closely behind a gage, while riding the white line when I am forced to ride after about 6:00p.m. local time. Don't know which is more of a threat...deer or tailgating but I try to do it only when I am caught out. I stay to the left of the gage in the middle of the road. Capt. Bob in CT.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bogdan Swider" To: "Ron Criswell" ; "James Morrow Sr" Cc: "revmaaatin" ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Back from TAT, early and broken > > > > On 9/19/06 6:18 AM, "Ronald Criswell" wrote: > > > I couldn't agree more. The Larry Grodsky crash was ...... well he > > asked for it riding at night in the Big Bend area of Texas. Full of > > big, dumb dear. I just couldn't believe a guy who taught motorcycle > > safety would do that. > > > > Criswell > > > ` > I read that he couldn't find a motel room and therefore had to ride to the > next town. I guess the lesson here is to stop well before dark - in case > it's only the first try at calling it a day. If you want to cover miles > that's not easy to do during the times of year when the days are short. > > Bogdan > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >

[Steve Brown]

Anyone here based in western Newfoundland who can tell us about the moose there? The one time I got stuck driving at night (Rocky Harbour to Cow Head) I saw 3 live moose and passed two car/moose accident scenes within 30 miles. usa1911a1 wrote: We have a lot of deer around here and I follow closely behind a gage, while riding the white line when I am forced to ride after about 6:00p.m. local time. Don't know which is more of a threat...deer or tailgating but I try to do it only when I am caught out. I stay to the left of the gage in the middle of the road. Capt. Bob in CT.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bogdan Swider" To: "Ron Criswell" ; "James Morrow Sr" Cc: "revmaaatin" ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Back from TAT, early and broken > > > > On 9/19/06 6:18 AM, "Ronald Criswell" wrote: > > > I couldn't agree more. The Larry Grodsky crash was ...... well he > > asked for it riding at night in the Big Bend area of Texas. Full of > > big, dumb dear. I just couldn't believe a guy who taught motorcycle > > safety would do that. > > > > Criswell > > > ` > I read that he couldn't find a motel room and therefore had to ride to the > next town. I guess the lesson here is to stop well before dark - in case > it's only the first try at calling it a day. If you want to cover miles > that's not easy to do during the times of year when the days are short. > > Bogdan > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- All new Yahoo! Mail - --------------------------------- Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[revmaaatin]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "E.L. Green" wrote:

> > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote: > > I have watched many of the moto-GP riders perform some pretty > > spectacular get-offs,

SNIP

> > Take up rollerblading. You will swiftly learn how to fall -- or else > you'll have a couple of broken arms *and* broken collarbones .

SNIPED AGAIN -E Eric, Are you nutz? Rollerblading is way to dangerous for me. (I don't want to have to ask my kids to tie my "blades" for me.) revmaaatin.

[Don S]

Rule no. 1 - Try not to ride at night. Rule no. 2 - Slow down. Rule no. 3 - Have lots of lighting. Rule no. 4 - Try not to ride at night. Ride safe. Don Steve Brown wrote: Anyone here based in western Newfoundland who can tell us about the moose there? The one time I got stuck driving at night (Rocky Harbour to Cow Head) I saw 3 live moose and passed two car/moose accident scenes within 30 miles. usa1911a1 wrote: We have a lot of deer around here and I follow closely behind a gage, while riding the white line when I am forced to ride after about 6:00p.m. local time. Don't know which is more of a threat...deer or tailgating but I try to do it only when I am caught out. I stay to the left of the gage in the middle of the road. Capt. Bob in CT.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bogdan Swider" To: "Ron Criswell" ; "James Morrow Sr" Cc: "revmaaatin" ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Back from TAT, early and broken > > > > On 9/19/06 6:18 AM, "Ronald Criswell" wrote: > > > I couldn't agree more. The Larry Grodsky crash was ...... well he > > asked for it riding at night in the Big Bend area of Texas. Full of > > big, dumb dear. I just couldn't believe a guy who taught motorcycle > > safety would do that. > > > > Criswell > > > ` > I read that he couldn't find a motel room and therefore had to ride to the > next town. I guess the lesson here is to stop well before dark - in case > it's only the first try at calling it a day. If you want to cover miles > that's not easy to do during the times of year when the days are short. > > Bogdan > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- All new Yahoo! Mail - --------------------------------- Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1 /min. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Don S]

If you want to learn how to fall and have fun doing it, take up drinking. Was so effective that I decided it best to stop. The drinking part was OK. Can't say the same for the falling. Don Andrus Chesley wrote:

> Take up rollerblading. You will swiftly learn how to fall

Can you believe I was advised to take Judo for the same reason way back in '59 for the same reason. It did help on my many exceeding traction trials. '43 Andy in Louisiana '00 KLR650 '02 R1150GSA '03 Chevy Truck --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]