warning: stay out of eldorado national forest

[chevk30]

I am confused. What prompted the Harley vs. KLR war? Harleys look cool but bang for the buck a Honda Shadow is a better built bike for half the price. It just doesn't get one into "the club". Your buying admission into that with a Harley. At work there are many bike riders. Lots of BMWs, Harleys, Vstroms, KLRs, XRs, and Goldwings. The ones that stick in our minds are the Harleys. A brand new $40K one had to be towed out the first week the guy had it because it would not start at the end of his shift. Another brand new one is marking its spot with leaking oil. I kind of wanted one for a while. I thought they had improved them with the rubber motor mounts and all. I still see them on the side of the road cooling on hot days though.I kind of think the Honda Shadow might be the way to go. My buddy and I were both wanting Harleys, one day we are at an ATM machine and a Harley rides up. Its thumping away when my buddy says gee if my car ran like that I would seriously consider having it towed to the nearest shop. I am not trying to bash here but some things are obvious. I wanted one until I took a good look. So convince me Harley proponents. Why should I get a Harley over a Shadow other then admission into "the club" which I care nothing about. You guys sound quite passionate about your debate. Expand for me. I can't wait to hear where this will go.....lol And as for the assless chaps... Would you want your wife or mom or daughter in those? How classless is that mentality. Gonna have to agree with the comment about the Harley mentality on that note.

[Lourd Baltimore]

Regarding the chaps aspect of your post... If you follow any hip-hop, then I think Usher put it best in that most men want a "lady in the street, but a freak in the bed." Now vice-sersa, meh...I'm ambivalent. Josh A7 http://www.bntr.com/doofus/KLR650 . chevk30 wrote: I am confused. What prompted the Harley vs. KLR war? Harleys look cool but bang for the buck a Honda Shadow is a better built bike for half the price. It just doesn't get one into "the club". Your buying admission into that with a Harley. At work there are many bike riders. Lots of BMWs, Harleys, Vstroms, KLRs, XRs, and Goldwings. The ones that stick in our minds are the Harleys. A brand new $40K one had to be towed out the first week the guy had it because it would not start at the end of his shift. Another brand new one is marking its spot with leaking oil. I kind of wanted one for a while. I thought they had improved them with the rubber motor mounts and all. I still see them on the side of the road cooling on hot days though.I kind of think the Honda Shadow might be the way to go. My buddy and I were both wanting Harleys, one day we are at an ATM machine and a Harley rides up. Its thumping away when my buddy says gee if my car ran like that I would seriously consider having it towed to the nearest shop. I am not trying to bash here but some things are obvious. I wanted one until I took a good look. So convince me Harley proponents. Why should I get a Harley over a Shadow other then admission into "the club" which I care nothing about. You guys sound quite passionate about your debate. Expand for me. I can't wait to hear where this will go.....lol And as for the assless chaps... Would you want your wife or mom or daughter in those? How classless is that mentality. Gonna have to agree with the comment about the Harley mentality on that note. --------------------------------- Sneak preview the all-new Yahoo.com. It's not radically different. Just radically better. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[jokerloco9@aol.com]

I don't know about the "Harley Club" as you say, as I could care less about it. The leaking oil and not starting on the new bikes is unusual, as the new ones are very good. There is some percentage of new vehicles of any make that can have problems when new. As far as the rough running engine and wanting to take it in for repairs, that is exactly what a Harley is! If I want some surgical clean bike with no personality, I will buy Japanese. I had a 1983 Goldwing, than ran fine and did what it was supposed to do. But it was a very bland, boring bike. My Harley shakes, sputters, and pops, and idles like my 10 second drag car. It has a "personality" It sounds cool. It is supposed to do that! And the Harley styling is very Harley. I have seen many Japanese "Harley copies", and they just don't look the same. They look Japanese. I don't know how else to put it. I'm sure the Japanese cruisers are fine bikes mechanically. I suspect there is some pride in Harley ownership from riding an American machine. and one that has been around 100+ years. Yeah, I'm sure there are a few imported parts on it. Yeah, I know about how they almost went under. I wouldn't drive my 10 second drag car on the street as a daily driver. It would just be too impractical with all the little details to keep it running. (plus the fact that I burn 1 gallon of race gas per 1/4 mile pass). I drive a nice sane, pedestrian, stock, sterile Toyota Echo. For my time off, I'm willing to put up with some trouble for a bike that shakes and rattles. The Harley is entertaining, even at idle stopped at a light. Rent a Harley from Eagle Rider. It is like $135 for a day. I would recommend that for anyone thinking of buying. Get 3-4 of your friends together to cut the costs. Yes, the Harley is air-cooled. It is very hot this weekend. Yes, I rode my KLR this weekend for errands instead of the Harley, as I wouldn't want to risk stop and go in 100+ degree heat. Think of it as why does someone buy a Ferrari when a new Mustang GT or Shelby is just as fast?? Jeff A20 GSXR1000 HD Heritage Softail. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Douglas Bouley]

An example would be my 06 KLR which is now in its second week of shop time for persistent carb problems. I've had to quit making fun of my old geezer buddies on Harleys. None of their bikes have had any downtime at all. Doug

On Jul 2, 2006, at 12:31 , jokerloco9@... wrote: > The leaking oil and not starting on the new bikes is unusual, as > the new > ones are very good. There is some percentage of new vehicles of > any make that > can have problems when new.

[Russell Scott]

It all started with who waves. I think the bashing is more about the Harley culture than the bike, although I don't think anyone can argue that Harley's are overpriced. In reality, birds of a feather often flock together. And that is true with any motorcycle brand. R -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of chevk30 Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 7:52 AM To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_KLR650] NKLR Whats with the Harley talk? I am confused. What prompted the Harley vs. KLR war? Harleys look cool but bang for the buck a Honda Shadow is a better built bike for half the price. It just doesn't get one into "the club". Your buying admission into that with a Harley. At work there are many bike riders. Lots of BMWs, Harleys, Vstroms, KLRs, XRs, and Goldwings. The ones that stick in our minds are the Harleys. A brand new $40K one had to be towed out the first week the guy had it because it would not start at the end of his shift. Another brand new one is marking its spot with leaking oil. I kind of wanted one for a while. I thought they had improved them with the rubber motor mounts and all. I still see them on the side of the road cooling on hot days though.I kind of think the Honda Shadow might be the way to go. My buddy and I were both wanting Harleys, one day we are at an ATM machine and a Harley rides up. Its thumping away when my buddy says gee if my car ran like that I would seriously consider having it towed to the nearest shop. I am not trying to bash here but some things are obvious. I wanted one until I took a good look. So convince me Harley proponents. Why should I get a Harley over a Shadow other then admission into "the club" which I care nothing about. You guys sound quite passionate about your debate. Expand for me. I can't wait to hear where this will go.....lol And as for the assless chaps... Would you want your wife or mom or daughter in those? How classless is that mentality. Gonna have to agree with the comment about the Harley mentality on that note. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tengai Mark Van Horn]

At 12:50 PM -0400 7/2/06, Douglas Bouley wrote:

>An example would be my 06 KLR which is now in its second week of shop >time for persistent carb problems.

The carb is a really simple device, but I'm guessing that the reason your bike has been down for so long is because you took it to the shop in the first place. Mark

[Jim Link]

I have a harley and a Kawasaki Vulcan.. I have $500.00 thats says you can't tell the difference between the two... Think about it now.. I can build a bike from scratch, they even sound the same.. I was just curious to see if it could be done, I have bought all the same parts and accessories, guess which one retains the price of it's accessories and which one doesn't... go figure that one out.. if you were wondering.. I ride the Kawasaki more.. OH and the KLR.. all bikes are cool, and anybody that rides motorcycles has got to be cool too.. --- jokerloco9@... wrote:

> I don't know about the "Harley Club" as you say, as > I could care less about > it. > > The leaking oil and not starting on the new bikes is > unusual, as the new > ones are very good. There is some percentage of new > vehicles of any make that > can have problems when new. > > As far as the rough running engine and wanting to > take it in for repairs, > that is exactly what a Harley is! If I want some > surgical clean bike with no > personality, I will buy Japanese. > > I had a 1983 Goldwing, than ran fine and did what it > was supposed to do. > But it was a very bland, boring bike. > > My Harley shakes, sputters, and pops, and idles like > my 10 second drag car. > It has a "personality" It sounds cool. It is > supposed to do that! > > And the Harley styling is very Harley. I have seen > many Japanese "Harley > copies", and they just don't look the same. They > look Japanese. I don't know > how else to put it. I'm sure the Japanese cruisers > are fine bikes > mechanically. > > I suspect there is some pride in Harley ownership > from riding an American > machine. and one that has been around 100+ years. > Yeah, I'm sure there are a > few imported parts on it. Yeah, I know about how > they almost went under. > > I wouldn't drive my 10 second drag car on the street > as a daily driver. It > would just be too impractical with all the little > details to keep it running. > (plus the fact that I burn 1 gallon of race gas per > 1/4 mile pass). I > drive a nice sane, pedestrian, stock, sterile Toyota > Echo. > > For my time off, I'm willing to put up with some > trouble for a bike that > shakes and rattles. The Harley is entertaining, > even at idle stopped at a light. > > Rent a Harley from Eagle Rider. It is like $135 for > a day. I would > recommend that for anyone thinking of buying. Get > 3-4 of your friends together to > cut the costs. > > Yes, the Harley is air-cooled. It is very hot this > weekend. Yes, I rode my > KLR this weekend for errands instead of the Harley, > as I wouldn't want to > risk stop and go in 100+ degree heat. > > Think of it as why does someone buy a Ferrari when a > new Mustang GT or > Shelby is just as fast?? > > Jeff A20 > GSXR1000 > HD Heritage Softail. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > >

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[Darryll]

No need to bash any bike as long as it's in the wind>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been riding for 35 years and the rule is wave if you can ..... The new style of wave to your brand is kind of silly but at least they wave at someone ...... RFRHOSH (Ride Free Ride Hard Or Stay Home) --- Russell Scott wrote:

> It all started with who waves. I think the bashing > is more about the Harley > culture than the bike, although I don't think anyone > can argue that Harley's > are overpriced. In reality, birds of a feather > often flock together. And > that is true with any motorcycle brand. > > R > -----Original Message----- > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com]On > Behalf Of chevk30 > Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 7:52 AM > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] NKLR Whats with the Harley > talk? > > > I am confused. What prompted the Harley vs. KLR > war? Harleys look > cool but bang for the buck a Honda Shadow is a > better built bike for > half the price. It just doesn't get one into "the > club". Your buying > admission into that with a Harley. At work there > are many bike > riders. Lots of BMWs, Harleys, Vstroms, KLRs, XRs, > and Goldwings. > The ones that stick in our minds are the Harleys. > A brand new $40K > one had to be towed out the first week the guy had > it because it > would not start at the end of his shift. Another > brand new one is > marking its spot with leaking oil. I kind of > wanted one for a while. > I thought they had improved them with the rubber > motor mounts and > all. I still see them on the side of the road > cooling on hot days > though.I kind of think the Honda Shadow might be > the way to go. My > buddy and I were both wanting Harleys, one day we > are at an ATM > machine and a Harley rides up. Its thumping away > when my buddy says > gee if my car ran like that I would seriously > consider having it > towed to the nearest shop. I am not trying to bash > here but some > things are obvious. I wanted one until I took a > good look. So > convince me Harley proponents. Why should I get a > Harley over a > Shadow other then admission into "the club" which > I care nothing > about. You guys sound quite passionate about your > debate. Expand for > me. I can't wait to hear where this will > go.....lol And as for the > assless chaps... Would you want your wife or mom > or daughter in > those? How classless is that mentality. Gonna have > to agree with the > comment about the Harley mentality on that note. > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > >

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[E.L. Green]

At least on the 4th of July weekend. GAH! Every good camping spot had like 50 people camped in it. I mean, we're talking tents staked up mere inches away from other tents. If I wanted crowds, I'd go to a big city, not a national forest! Last year was much more fun, further south where the crowds from Sacramento and Reno weren't converging. As for how my KLR handled it: I was carrying approximately 60 pounds of luggage and gear in the side paniers and top box (including the weight of the luggage), and 20 pounds in my tank paniers (that was where my large water bottle and water bladder lived, which I needed because I had to "dry camp" -- any spot near water was taken). The new MSM rear spring worked gorgeously -- I put it on "4" preload ("1" is almost too stiff for me unloaded) and the ride was fine and the bike was rock-solid stable on the highway. The Kenda 761's handled quite well in the twisties going up there when aired up to 32PSI, and when aired down to 12PSI front and 15PSI rear did an adequate job in the rough -- I didn't feel as planted when I hit sand and loose gravel as if I'd had all-out knobbies on the thing, but there was always enough traction that I didn't feel like I was about to crash all the time. (And for the record, reason I aired the front down more is because its a helluva lot easier to change a pinch or spin flat in the front than in the back -- the bead on that Kenda rear is a bitch to break, while one swift boot kick will kick it loose on the front... not to mention that traction on the front tire is a lot more important than traction on the rear if you're trying to avoid crashing!). There was one corner full of deep sand that the rear wanted to slide out on me, but it caught again once I was pointed where I wanted to go and I tractored out of there just fine. Pretty amazing for tires that behave so well on the street. Only downside is that the Kenda 761's don't last very long compared to, say, the Kenda 270. On the other hand, they behave a *whole* lot better on the road than the Kenda 270, and I suspect that due to the big deep grooves and lugs on the side of the tire that they're better offroad than the Avon Gripsters, which are the "gold standard" of street tires that are usable for light offroading. They do not of course last like the Gripsters... I'd say probably one Gripster will last as long as two Kenda 761's, so the Gripsters actually are about the same price per mile. I suppose it all depends on what you're doing with the tire. If you're going a *long* distance, the 761 definitely isn't the tire for you... it'd be eaten up in half a round trip from Florida to California. There were some "roads" that I wanted to explore that I didn't, but the limitation wasn't the KLR. The limitation was the KLR's rider. Horsing around 700 pounds of motorcycle, rider, and gear on steep heavily-eroded gravel-and-sand-filled "roads" is *work*. The KLR would handle anything I asked it to do. It just made me work to do it, so after I'd get a mile or so down the road, I'd be panting and saying, "Man, this isn't fun anymore," and turn around and go back up the main road. And BTW, I was usually going down these "roads" faster than the guys in Jeeps. It was kinda irritating, actually, because the jeeps were raising these billowing clouds of dust. So I'd putter along at 15mph, come up a Jeep's backside, and stop because the Jeep was going 5mph and bouncing all over the place and was raising up all this dust. Once the Jeep got a few hundred yards ahead, I'd go forward again and then stop again, waving my hand in front of my face to clear the dust. Repeat until the Jeeper got the message and pulled over to let me by. Having only two wheels, it was easy for me to find a line across all the erosion ruts that would keep me going reasonably fast (for some definition of "reasonable"), albeit weaving wildly from one side to the other or occasionally even the middle while standing on the pegs and my bike was wagging back and forth like a hobby horse under me. The poor Jeepers were just bouncing up and down in all those erosion ruts like they were riding some cheap- ass amusement park ride. One interesting thing I found out was that I get 43mpg when puttering about at 20mph in 2nd gear just as I get 43mpg when puttering about at 70mph in 5th gear. Odd, that. Luckily I have the 7 gallon IMS gas tank. Coming back, my tripmeter hit 250 miles (I filled up before coming back), and I'm still not on reserve. Oh, one last bit of gear report -- the ScotOiler did its job. When I hit the dirt I turned up the oil flow. Even in the worst of the sand and dust, looking at the sprocket, there was oil there in the valleys of the sprocket. Within 20 miles of hitting pavement the chain was as clean and oily looking as the day I put it on, at which point I refilled the reservoir and turned the oil flow back down. Only real downside is that the back of my bike looks really oily-dirty now. Oh well, better there than on my chain! Ah, forgot. Camp food. I tried something a little different this time. I got some MRE's off of EBAY and tried them out. The "Spaghetti with meat sauce" was an alarming red color but wasn't bad, I'd packed some parmesan cheese and sprinked that in it and I'm sure that helped, as did eating it with the rock-hard MRE cracker. The little MRE heater thingy warmed them up fine using little water (remember, I was dry camping). The cherry cobbler was good too. The "electrolyte drink" was an alarming red color too but hit the spot. The cheese spread and bread were yummy too. The only downside of MRE's is the bulk of the things, only two of them plus misc. sundries fit in my bear canister (recommended because at least one bear will try to open my paniers if he doesn't see a bear canister there to tell him that it's useless to do so), but then I planned on riding out to eat lunch somewhere anyhow, so that's all I needed for two nights spent in the forest. Basically, I liked the convenience of not having to clean a pot, and the fact that they needed little water to prepare was an interesting benefit too. For short trips like this where weight and bulk is of lesser importance (as compared to having to haul the things on my back while backpacking!), they just make sense. (And for my morning coffee, capuccino from another MRE pouch, yum!). Hmm, guess that's enough drivel for today. Just remember -- stay out of the Eldorado National Forest, at least for the next few days! Just too damned many people there. Great if you're exploring backroads solo, because you know someone is going to be along in case something happens to you, but otherwise just a general pain... -E (KLR650 A16)