klr sidecar ride report

[Doug Herr]

All this talk about compression tests for the KLR seems to have forgotten to mention the KACR. I don't think a compression test is much good for us unless we are willing to open up the valve cover and wire down the KACR. (KACR: Kawasaki Automatic Compression Release)

On Sun, 25 Jun 2006, Norm Keller wrote: >> whatever to the tried and true method of >checking the compression >> befire and after squirting a bit of oil into the >cylinder? > >> At the very least you will have one more >diagnostic tool to try and >> decide if it's rings or valve guides. > > Squirting oil into the cylinder and then doing a compression > test is referred to as a "wet" compression test as opposed to a > "dry" one which is usually performed first. The idea is to use > a "wet" test if compression is lower than it should be. The > sealing effect of some oil will help to indicate whether the > low compression (pressure) is due to leaking past the > compression rings or past the valves, hole in a piston or other > issue. > > A "wet" compression test or a dry test, for that matter will be > of virtually no value in indicating whether you have an oil > control ring problem which would contribute to oil consumption. > > Typically oil enters the combustion chamber (as opposed to > leaking outside the engine) by way of either the oil control > rings or valve guide seals. The most important valve guide > seals are the intake ones and many engines do not bother with > exhaust valve seals although I recommend them. > > Oil control rings may be unable to control oil if the amount of > oil being thrown onto the cylinder walls is excessive so some > consideration as to the possibility of worn main bearings and > the like must also be considered. > > FWIW > > Norm -- Doug Herr doug@...

[Matt]

This would be great, but like you say Norm, it would be a matter of having the right spring compressor. And something tells me a suitable one isn't available. Matt

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Norm Keller" wrote: > > It is common practice to replace valve guide seals with head on. We use a fitting into the spark plug hole to apply shop air which holds the valves in place. From there it is a matter of compressing each valve spring in turn, removing keeper and retainer, lift out spring, pry out old valve guide seal, press in new seal and reinstall spring, keepers and retainer. Then next one. It is simpler and quicker than it sounds so long as you have the right compressor. > > Has anyone done VG seals this way on a KLR? > > Norm > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

[Glen Exact Sound Hotmail]

When I Acquired my 99 KLR used with only 251 miles on it I changed the oil I to Valvoline Premium Blue 15w 40 it consumed a small amount of oil even after several oil changes. At roughly 2500 miles I switched to Mobil's Delvac 1 5w-40 synthetic. Oil consumption stopped completely to an virtually undetectable level of consumption. At 1st I even wondered if somebody was secretly adding oil? Bike is always under my control so it's impossible for this to happen. I currently have and old ancient Advanced Formula of Mobil 1 15w-50 in the crankcase now and still no oil use. Could be a coincidence? Glen

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Peplinski" To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 4:40 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Oil usage. > 2001 KLR with 12000 miles. Purchased used with 3500 miles. Bike was > rumored > to have been driven to the Arctic circle and back one time and sold. I > use > a little over a quart in 1500 miles. Worse if there is a lot of 70mph > riding. No obvious smoking. I suspect it didn't have a proper break in but > cannot prove it. I don't mind the usage but it keeps me loyal on checking > the oil level. I always keep it topped off per recommendation. What is > the > likely culprit, rings or valves? Is this condition likely to escalate or > is > it normal usage for a KLR? >

[E.L. Green]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Norm Keller" wrote:

> Squirting oil into the cylinder and then doing a compression test is

referred to as a "wet" compression test as opposed to a "dry" one which is usually performed first. The idea is to use a "wet" test if compression is lower than it should be. The sealing effect of some oil will help to indicate whether the low compression (pressure) is due to leaking past the compression rings or past the valves, hole in a piston or other issue. On a KLR, it might as well be called the "useless test", due to the KACR (Kawasaki Automatic Compression Release) which kicks in at low RPM's. You'd need to somehow disable the KACR in order to do a "real" compression test. Just out of curiousity, I stuck my compression tester in my KLR's spark plug hole and cranked away, nope, no dice -- it only got up to 40-45PSI, far too low for the engine to really run. The KLR manages to start because that's enough pressure to get at least a *little* bit of boost to the starter's oomph, allowing RPM's to get above where the KACR cuts out. But without that extra oomph from the spark, my KLR, at least, never gets above the KACR cutoff on just plain starter power. _E

[Don S]

With regard to the KARC, how would one bump start the KLR? I have a pretty steep driveway 11% grade 100 feet long. I tried coasting down and popping the clutch in 2nd gear and all it did was lock up the back wheel. What's the best gear to bump start the KLR and, does the KARC engage only when using the starting motor? Don S. "E.L. Green" wrote:

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Norm Keller" wrote: > Squirting oil into the cylinder and then doing a compression test is referred to as a "wet" compression test as opposed to a "dry" one which is usually performed first. The idea is to use a "wet" test if compression is lower than it should be. The sealing effect of some oil will help to indicate whether the low compression (pressure) is due to leaking past the compression rings or past the valves, hole in a piston or other issue. On a KLR, it might as well be called the "useless test", due to the KACR (Kawasaki Automatic Compression Release) which kicks in at low RPM's. You'd need to somehow disable the KACR in order to do a "real" compression test. Just out of curiousity, I stuck my compression tester in my KLR's spark plug hole and cranked away, nope, no dice -- it only got up to 40-45PSI, far too low for the engine to really run. The KLR manages to start because that's enough pressure to get at least a *little* bit of boost to the starter's oomph, allowing RPM's to get above where the KACR cuts out. But without that extra oomph from the spark, my KLR, at least, never gets above the KACR cutoff on just plain starter power. _E --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger s low PC-to-Phone call rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Doug Herr]

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006, Don S wrote:

> With regard to the KARC, how would one bump start the KLR? I > have a pretty steep driveway 11% grade 100 feet long. I tried > coasting down and popping the clutch in 2nd gear and all it did > was lock up the back wheel. What's the best gear to bump start > the KLR and, does the KARC engage only when using the starting > motor?

You may need to jump onto the bike to get the needed weight on it for that bump start, but just trying a higher gear may do it. The KACR is based on the RPM of the engine and will engage regardless of how you spin it, so it is still in play for a bump start. -- Doug Herr doug@...

[E.L. Green]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Don S wrote:

> > With regard to the KARC, how would one bump start the KLR? I have a

pretty steep driveway 11% grade 100 feet long. I tried coasting down and popping the clutch in 2nd gear and all it did was lock up the back wheel. That's a big freakin' piston in the KLR (think coffee can big). Were you sitting on the rear of the seat when you popped the clutch, to put more weight onto the rear wheel? If second gear doesn't do it, try third gear (especially if you have a smaller front sprocket), you just have to be quick with the clutch and throttle then... The KACR should make the KLR easier to bump-start, yet another reason why you should not normally disable it. But any bike with a piston that big isn't going to be the easiest in the world to bump-start... _E

[Don S]

Hi Eric. I don't recall sitting back over the wheel. I will however try that. It wasn't necessary for me to bump start the bike. Everything was working fine. I just wanted to see how it would bump start just in case I ever had to start it that way. Thanks for the info. Don "E.L. Green" wrote:

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Don S wrote: > > With regard to the KARC, how would one bump start the KLR? I have a pretty steep driveway 11% grade 100 feet long. I tried coasting down and popping the clutch in 2nd gear and all it did was lock up the back wheel. That's a big freakin' piston in the KLR (think coffee can big). Were you sitting on the rear of the seat when you popped the clutch, to put more weight onto the rear wheel? If second gear doesn't do it, try third gear (especially if you have a smaller front sprocket), you just have to be quick with the clutch and throttle then... The KACR should make the KLR easier to bump-start, yet another reason why you should not normally disable it. But any bike with a piston that big isn't going to be the easiest in the world to bump-start... _E --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Don S]

Thanks for that Doug. Don Doug Herr wrote:

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006, Don S wrote: > With regard to the KARC, how would one bump start the KLR? I > have a pretty steep driveway 11% grade 100 feet long. I tried > coasting down and popping the clutch in 2nd gear and all it did > was lock up the back wheel. What's the best gear to bump start > the KLR and, does the KARC engage only when using the starting > motor? You may need to jump onto the bike to get the needed weight on it for that bump start, but just trying a higher gear may do it. The KACR is based on the RPM of the engine and will engage regardless of how you spin it, so it is still in play for a bump start. -- Doug Herr doug@... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Norm Keller]

Doug Herr is right about the compression release. Actually Doug is right about everything he has posted- either he's well informed or very lucky! (running for cover.....) Kidding aside, I assumed that everyone knows about the automatic compression release which operates on the end of the camshaft. When you are doing your valve adjustment it is well to inspect the pins, etc. to make sure that nothing is coming loose. No one has mentioned an issue and I believe that no such issue exists but simply prefer to have a look when something is so accessible. As Doug mentioned, the only way to arrive at a reliable compression test value for the KLR is to disable the compression release or to remove it. Someone mentioned having removed one and expressed the opinion that the compression release serves no useful purpose with the electric starter. I am quite interested in obtaining a valve spring compression apparatus against the likelihood of doing seals in future. Thanks for the clarification, Doug. Norm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]