klr sidecar ride report

[Mike Peplinski]

2001 KLR with 12000 miles. Purchased used with 3500 miles. Bike was rumored to have been driven to the Arctic circle and back one time and sold. I use a little over a quart in 1500 miles. Worse if there is a lot of 70mph riding. No obvious smoking. I suspect it didn't have a proper break in but cannot prove it. I don't mind the usage but it keeps me loyal on checking the oil level. I always keep it topped off per recommendation. What is the likely culprit, rings or valves? Is this condition likely to escalate or is it normal usage for a KLR?

[Blake Sobiloff]

On 6/24/06, Mike Peplinski wrote:

> What is the > likely culprit, rings or valves? Is this condition likely to escalate or is > it normal usage for a KLR?

Dunno--need more info. Do you see smoke at any time? Refresh my memory, what oil are you using? -- Blake Sobiloff http://sobiloff.typepad.com/> San Jose, CA (USA)

[E.L. Green]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Peplinski" wrote:

> cannot prove it. I don't mind the usage but it keeps me loyal on

checking

> the oil level. I always keep it topped off per recommendation.

What is the

> likely culprit, rings or valves? Is this condition likely to

escalate or is

> it normal usage for a KLR?

If it's rings, it's not going to escalate, not for a long time. My personal suspicion is that since you don't see it smoking under load, this is oil leaking past the valve stem seals, in which case it *may* escalate. Luckily this is a lot easier to fix than rings, though it does require taking the head off. MSM has some "better" seals. You may be able to see if this is the problem by looking through the intake and exhaust ports. If you see oil on the valves through the intake ports, or baked-on oil on the exhaust ports, this may be the problem. Having never done this on the KLR, I have no clue as to how hard this is to do, but since you have to take off the exhaust pipe and carb anyhow in order to take off the head, it's a nice intermediate step. Also see: http://www.multisurfacemotorcycling.com/articles/fft060106.htm _E

[Matt]

Mike, I've got a 2002 w/54,000 miles. I add a couple quarts in 4 oz. to 8 oz. increments over a 1,500 mile period. Kinda sucks! It's a shame too. The top end is like new. I just checked my valves and they haven't budged in 32,000 miles. The smallest shim is a .245 and that valve is adjusted to the loose end of the spec. As a matter of fact they all are. Just prior to the valve adjustment and oil change I ran some Seafoam through the gas tank. I also added a few ounces of MMO to the oil. After the valve adj. I removed the spark plug. It had a nice tan color. But peering through the spark plug hole I could see the top of the piston covered with a black residue. I'd guess this is carbon. Whatever, I'm no engine guru. But it didn't seem as though the additives made a difference. Oh well. I figured I didn't have much to loose so I poured a couple ounces of Seafoam through the hole on top of the piston. Manually turned the engine over several times and let it soak/evaporate wile I reassembled the bike. At startup up it blew out a bunch of smoke. My take is that it was white smoke, but it only lasted momentarily. Next time I might add more. Afterall, it is a big piston. But that's where I'm at. I'm thinking it's the valve seals. All the crap I added should have cleared up a sticky ring problem. And I'm still going through the oil. I'm a bit leary of tackling the valve seal replacement myself having never pulled the head off a motor. And I'm even more leary of taking it to a shop. That, and this is my primary transportation. It'll cost an arm and a leg to drive my 1970 3/4 ton pickup for any length of time while the KLR is in-op. I sure wish Eldon (or someone) had a documented valve seal replacement procedure. I've been giving some thought to a suitable replacement for the KLR when the time comes. And that's no easy decision! If anybody has any thoughts, advise or suggestions please fire away. Thanks, Matt --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Peplinski" wrote:

> > 2001 KLR with 12000 miles. Purchased used with 3500 miles. Bike

was rumored

> to have been driven to the Arctic circle and back one time and

sold. I use

> a little over a quart in 1500 miles. Worse if there is a lot of

70mph

> riding. No obvious smoking. I suspect it didn't have a proper

break in but

> cannot prove it. I don't mind the usage but it keeps me loyal on

checking

> the oil level. I always keep it topped off per recommendation.

What is the

> likely culprit, rings or valves? Is this condition likely to

escalate or is

> it normal usage for a KLR? >

[Joe Tittiger]

Matt whatever to the tried and true method of checking the compression befire and after squirting a bit of oil into the cylinder? At the very least you will have one more diagnostic tool to try and decide if it's rings or valve guides.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" wrote: > > Mike, > > I've got a 2002 w/54,000 miles. I add a couple quarts in 4 oz. to 8 > oz. increments over a 1,500 mile period. Kinda sucks! It's a shame > too. The top end is like new. I just checked my valves and they > haven't budged in 32,000 miles. The smallest shim is a .245 and > that valve is adjusted to the loose end of the spec. As a matter of > fact they all are. Just prior to the valve adjustment and oil change > I ran some Seafoam through the gas tank. I also added a few ounces > of MMO to the oil. After the valve adj. I removed the spark plug. > It had a nice tan color. But peering through the spark plug hole I > could see the top of the piston covered with a black residue. I'd > guess this is carbon. Whatever, I'm no engine guru. But it didn't > seem as though the additives made a difference. Oh well. I figured > I didn't have much to loose so I poured a couple ounces of Seafoam > through the hole on top of the piston. Manually turned the engine > over several times and let it soak/evaporate wile I reassembled the > bike. At startup up it blew out a bunch of smoke. My take is that > it was white smoke, but it only lasted momentarily. Next time I > might add more. Afterall, it is a big piston. > > But that's where I'm at. I'm thinking it's the valve seals. All > the crap I added should have cleared up a sticky ring problem. And > I'm still going through the oil. I'm a bit leary of tackling the > valve seal replacement myself having never pulled the head off a > motor. And I'm even more leary of taking it to a shop. That, and > this is my primary transportation. It'll cost an arm and a leg to > drive my 1970 3/4 ton pickup for any length of time while the KLR is > in-op. I sure wish Eldon (or someone) had a documented valve seal > replacement procedure. I've been giving some thought to a suitable > replacement for the KLR when the time comes. And that's no easy > decision! > > If anybody has any thoughts, advise or suggestions please fire away. > > Thanks, > > Matt > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Peplinski" > wrote: > > > > 2001 KLR with 12000 miles. Purchased used with 3500 miles. Bike > was rumored > > to have been driven to the Arctic circle and back one time and > sold. I use > > a little over a quart in 1500 miles. Worse if there is a lot of > 70mph > > riding. No obvious smoking. I suspect it didn't have a proper > break in but > > cannot prove it. I don't mind the usage but it keeps me loyal on > checking > > the oil level. I always keep it topped off per recommendation. > What is the > > likely culprit, rings or valves? Is this condition likely to > escalate or is > > it normal usage for a KLR? > > >

[Norm Keller]

It is common practice to replace valve guide seals with head on. We use a fitting into the spark plug hole to apply shop air which holds the valves in place. From there it is a matter of compressing each valve spring in turn, removing keeper and retainer, lift out spring, pry out old valve guide seal, press in new seal and reinstall spring, keepers and retainer. Then next one. It is simpler and quicker than it sounds so long as you have the right compressor. Has anyone done VG seals this way on a KLR? Norm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Norm Keller]

>whatever to the tried and true method of >checking the compression >befire and after squirting a bit of oil into the >cylinder? >At the very least you will have one more >diagnostic tool to try and >decide if it's rings or valve guides.

Squirting oil into the cylinder and then doing a compression test is referred to as a "wet" compression test as opposed to a "dry" one which is usually performed first. The idea is to use a "wet" test if compression is lower than it should be. The sealing effect of some oil will help to indicate whether the low compression (pressure) is due to leaking past the compression rings or past the valves, hole in a piston or other issue. A "wet" compression test or a dry test, for that matter will be of virtually no value in indicating whether you have an oil control ring problem which would contribute to oil consumption. Typically oil enters the combustion chamber (as opposed to leaking outside the engine) by way of either the oil control rings or valve guide seals. The most important valve guide seals are the intake ones and many engines do not bother with exhaust valve seals although I recommend them. Oil control rings may be unable to control oil if the amount of oil being thrown onto the cylinder walls is excessive so some consideration as to the possibility of worn main bearings and the like must also be considered. FWIW Norm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ed Chait]

> Has anyone done VG seals this way on a KLR? > Norm

I haven't done it with any method, but I have heard of another way where rope is stuffed into the combustion chamber in order to hold the valves up. ed A17

[Mike Peplinski]

That sounds like where I may be headed. For me the KLR is not my primary transportation but I still need reliability. Tkhe KLR is my therapy. While I don't mind adding a quart for 1500 miles I don't want to have it get to be 2 then 3. I tried the Seafoam in both the gas and oil. Makes no difference. If its rings thats a ful rebuild but if its seals thats just a head rebuild. (Just?) Thanks for the reply. Let me know if you decide to "move on" after the KLR. While I really love mine I can'at help wonder if an SV650 or Weestrom might be better for a 99% road warrior. When you move from dual sport to transportation, there are a lot of choices. I have to wonder if a Ninja 650 or SV wouldn't work fine on gravel and dirt with dual sport tires.

>From: "Matt" >To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Oil usage. >Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 17:50:24 -0000 > >Mike, > >I've got a 2002 w/54,000 miles. I add a couple quarts in 4 oz. to 8 >oz. increments over a 1,500 mile period. Kinda sucks! It's a shame >too. The top end is like new. I just checked my valves and they >haven't budged in 32,000 miles. The smallest shim is a .245 and >that valve is adjusted to the loose end of the spec. As a matter of >fact they all are. Just prior to the valve adjustment and oil change >I ran some Seafoam through the gas tank. I also added a few ounces >of MMO to the oil. After the valve adj. I removed the spark plug. >It had a nice tan color. But peering through the spark plug hole I >could see the top of the piston covered with a black residue. I'd >guess this is carbon. Whatever, I'm no engine guru. But it didn't >seem as though the additives made a difference. Oh well. I figured >I didn't have much to loose so I poured a couple ounces of Seafoam >through the hole on top of the piston. Manually turned the engine >over several times and let it soak/evaporate wile I reassembled the >bike. At startup up it blew out a bunch of smoke. My take is that >it was white smoke, but it only lasted momentarily. Next time I >might add more. Afterall, it is a big piston. > >But that's where I'm at. I'm thinking it's the valve seals. All >the crap I added should have cleared up a sticky ring problem. And >I'm still going through the oil. I'm a bit leary of tackling the >valve seal replacement myself having never pulled the head off a >motor. And I'm even more leary of taking it to a shop. That, and >this is my primary transportation. It'll cost an arm and a leg to >drive my 1970 3/4 ton pickup for any length of time while the KLR is >in-op. I sure wish Eldon (or someone) had a documented valve seal >replacement procedure. I've been giving some thought to a suitable >replacement for the KLR when the time comes. And that's no easy >decision! > >If anybody has any thoughts, advise or suggestions please fire away. > >Thanks, > >Matt > > >--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Peplinski" > wrote: > > > > 2001 KLR with 12000 miles. Purchased used with 3500 miles. Bike >was rumored > > to have been driven to the Arctic circle and back one time and >sold. I use > > a little over a quart in 1500 miles. Worse if there is a lot of >70mph > > riding. No obvious smoking. I suspect it didn't have a proper >break in but > > cannot prove it. I don't mind the usage but it keeps me loyal on >checking > > the oil level. I always keep it topped off per recommendation. >What is the > > likely culprit, rings or valves? Is this condition likely to >escalate or is > > it normal usage for a KLR? > > > > > > > > > >Archive Quicksearch at: >http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[Bruce R. Porter]

Mike A good friend has the weestrom and in the 200 miles I've ridden it I found it to be a great bike. IF you could really stay 99% ON road it would be the right choice, for my $$$ though I have a hard time looking at all that plastic and considering ANY thing that resembles off-road riding with it. Norm's method of swapping the valve seals with the head still in place sounds like an affordable experiment before committing to tearing it down. Bruce --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Peplinski" wrote:

> > That sounds like where I may be headed. For me the KLR is not my

primary

> transportation but I still need reliability. Tkhe KLR is my

therapy. While I

> don't mind adding a quart for 1500 miles I don't want to have it

get to be 2

> then 3. I tried the Seafoam in both the gas and oil. Makes no

difference. If

> its rings thats a ful rebuild but if its seals thats just a head

rebuild.

> (Just?) Thanks for the reply. Let me know if you decide to "move

on" after

> the KLR. While I really love mine I can'at help wonder if an SV650

or

> Weestrom might be better for a 99% road warrior. When you move

from dual

> sport to transportation, there are a lot of choices. I have to

wonder if a

> Ninja 650 or SV wouldn't work fine on gravel and dirt with dual

sport tires.

>