oil window

[Chris Krok]

> From: Zachariah Mully > Subject: Re: Re: Carb question > > How would a lean condition cause > pinging? Simply by raising the cylinder temperature to a point where it > pre-ignites the fuel?

I think that's basically it... Don't have firsthand experience, but I do know that guys who mod turbo cars have to increase the fuel supply (lower the A/F ratio) at high levels of boost to suppress detonation. That may also indicate the need for richer jetting than you'd expect if you really open up the airflow in the KLR, but I don't know if it would be enough of an effect to matter. (Better airflow = higher initial cylinder pressure.)

> Most people don't ride their KLR's as hard as > Tumu, Mark, Devon and I do, and we revel in our abilities to break > stuff.

Man, I really wish I could ride with you guys some time... But then again, maybe I don't! Krokko -- Dr. J. Christopher Krok John Lucas Adaptive Wind Tunnel Caltech MS 205-45, Pasadena, CA 91125

[Thor Lancelot Simon]

On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 03:15:24PM -0700, Chris Krok wrote:

> > > From: Zachariah Mully > > Subject: Re: Re: Carb question > > > > How would a lean condition cause > > pinging? Simply by raising the cylinder temperature to a point where it > > pre-ignites the fuel? > > I think that's basically it... Don't have firsthand experience, but I > do know that guys who mod turbo cars have to increase the fuel supply > (lower the A/F ratio) at high levels of boost to suppress detonation.

Another option is to run a cooler plug, but that hurts combustion efficiency more. I think the actual problem is often that the spark plug can stay hot enough, in a really lean condition, to occasionally act like a glow plug... In the turbo-Volvo circles I used to hang out in (I kid you not, there is a whole culture of folks who hot-rod their Volvos!) two semi-popular hacks for addressing this were: 1) Run bigger injectors than stock, so more fuel per pulse than the engine computer thought, thus more heat in the cylinder at the end of the combustion cycle but less risk of detonation (this probably would work a lot less well in an engine without an intercooler). 2) Rig a 2- or 3-liter soda bottle to drip *water* into the intake (at any of several convenient points) at a very slow rate. This does not actually hurt combustion in any significant way but cools the cylinder, plug, and all a *lot*, thus allowing more turbo boost, a hotter plug, a leaner mixture, advanced timing, or whatever other detonation-prone modification might be desired. On the other hand, you'd have to stop every so often to refill your water bottle. I think this was much more popular at some point in the past when SCCA rules had a loophole permitting "water injection". Thor

[david gay]

Pinging can be caused by dirty disposits of cabon on the pistion crown, and other selected areas of the combustions chamber. Street engines are bad about acummulateing such deposits. This is why is isimportant to tear down highmilageengines, just to cleanthem if for no other reason. Hope tis helps, Dave A12 Thor Lancelot Simon wrote:On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 03:15:24PM -0700, Chris Krok wrote:

> > > From: Zachariah Mully > > Subject: Re: Re: Carb question > > > > How would a lean condition cause > > pinging? Simply by raising the cylinder temperature to a point where it > > pre-ignites the fuel? > > I think that's basically it... Don't have firsthand experience, but I > do know that guys who mod turbo cars have to increase the fuel supply > (lower the A/F ratio) at high levels of boost to suppress detonation.

Another option is to run a cooler plug, but that hurts combustion efficiency more. I think the actual problem is often that the spark plug can stay hot enough, in a really lean condition, to occasionally act like a glow plug... In the turbo-Volvo circles I used to hang out in (I kid you not, there is a whole culture of folks who hot-rod their Volvos!) two semi-popular hacks for addressing this were: 1) Run bigger injectors than stock, so more fuel per pulse than the engine computer thought, thus more heat in the cylinder at the end of the combustion cycle but less risk of detonation (this probably would work a lot less well in an engine without an intercooler). 2) Rig a 2- or 3-liter soda bottle to drip *water* into the intake (at any of several convenient points) at a very slow rate. This does not actually hurt combustion in any significant way but cools the cylinder, plug, and all a *lot*, thus allowing more turbo boost, a hotter plug, a leaner mixture, advanced timing, or whatever other detonation-prone modification might be desired. On the other hand, you'd have to stop every so often to refill your water bottle. I think this was much more popular at some point in the past when SCCA rules had a loophole permitting "water injection". Thor List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Harry Seifert]

> [Original Message] > From: Thor Lancelot Simon > 2) Rig a 2- or 3-liter soda bottle to drip *water* into the intake > (at any of several convenient points) at a very slow rate. This > does not actually hurt combustion in any significant way but > cools the cylinder, plug, and all a *lot*, thus allowing more > turbo boost, a hotter plug, a leaner mixture, advanced timing, > or whatever other detonation-prone modification might be desired. > > On the other hand, you'd have to stop every so often to refill your > water bottle. I think this was much more popular at some point > in the past when SCCA rules had a loophole permitting "water injection". >

"Water Injection", as used on WW2 aircraft engines and later on actually uses the conversion of liquid water to steam for two purposes; first to cool the incoming charge through evaporation thus preventing preignition and second, when water is converted into steam, it expands 1700 times in volume as well as absorbing a lot of heat. FWIW, my dad, the WW2 pilot, learned a lot about this stuff flying lots of Grumman products.........he also installed a version of this on his '73 F350 460 ci pickup in order to tow a gawdawful big 5th wheel travel trailer throughout Canada and the Southwest and never had knocking or pinging of any type in any weather, at least that he would talk about. Just my 1.5 cents worth

[Anthony Newton]

He is correct about the carbon. It can be removed by MISTING (not squirting) water into the carb intake while the engine is running (old mechanic's trick). The water does not compress, and acts like a bunch of little hammers beating the carbon off the surfaces. Be careful, though, since it does not compress you can raise your compression to an extreme and cause engine damage if you overdo it. -Fig

----- Original Message ----- From: "david gay" To: ; dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] pinging | Pinging can be caused by dirty disposits of cabon on the pistion crown, and other selected areas of the combustions chamber. Street engines are bad about acummulateing such deposits. This is why is isimportant to tear down highmilageengines, just to cleanthem if for no other reason. Hope tis helps, Dave A12 | | Thor Lancelot Simon wrote:On Tue, May 06, 2003 at 03:15:24PM -0700, Chris Krok wrote: | > | > > From: Zachariah Mully | > > Subject: Re: Re: Carb question | > > | > > How would a lean condition cause | > > pinging? Simply by raising the cylinder temperature to a point where it | > > pre-ignites the fuel? | > | > I think that's basically it... Don't have firsthand experience, but I | > do know that guys who mod turbo cars have to increase the fuel supply | > (lower the A/F ratio) at high levels of boost to suppress detonation. | | Another option is to run a cooler plug, but that hurts combustion | efficiency more. I think the actual problem is often that the spark | plug can stay hot enough, in a really lean condition, to occasionally | act like a glow plug... | | In the turbo-Volvo circles I used to hang out in (I kid you not, there | is a whole culture of folks who hot-rod their Volvos!) two semi-popular | hacks for addressing this were: | | 1) Run bigger injectors than stock, so more fuel per pulse than the | engine computer thought, thus more heat in the cylinder at the end | of the combustion cycle but less risk of detonation (this probably | would work a lot less well in an engine without an intercooler). | | 2) Rig a 2- or 3-liter soda bottle to drip *water* into the intake | (at any of several convenient points) at a very slow rate. This | does not actually hurt combustion in any significant way but | cools the cylinder, plug, and all a *lot*, thus allowing more | turbo boost, a hotter plug, a leaner mixture, advanced timing, | or whatever other detonation-prone modification might be desired. | | On the other hand, you'd have to stop every so often to refill your | water bottle. I think this was much more popular at some point | in the past when SCCA rules had a loophole permitting "water injection". | | Thor | | List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html | Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: | DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . | | | | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ | | | | --------------------------------- | Do you Yahoo!? | The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. | | [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] | | | List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html | Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: | DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . | | | | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ | |

[dlars356]

The last couple of days my 650 has been pinging. It's doesn't ping until it's hot from stop and go city riding ( it's also been in the mid 80's outside.) After searching the archives on the subject my first step is to try some higher octane gas. Any other suggestions? Am I doing harm to the engine if I continue to ride with the ping until I figure out a sulution?

[Van]

Are you hearing chain slap mayby???? Not sure what you mean by pinging. Lobes rotating on shims mayby?? Clicking sound or rattle sound?? Running at what speed?? Did you run the bike then shut it off and hear it?? Did you do your adjustments on your dohickey and the other chain tensioner gadget thingy?? Does your helmet have any loose parts?? and lastly, Is it coming from your engine?? Mayby Exhaust?? Let us know so we can further help you!!! Van

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "dlars356" wrote: > The last couple of days my 650 has been pinging. It's doesn't > ping until it's hot from stop and go city riding ( it's also been in > the mid 80's outside.) After searching the archives on the > subject my first step is to try some higher octane gas. Any other > suggestions? Am I doing harm to the engine if I continue to ride > with the ping until I figure out a sulution?

[jazranch]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "dlars356" wrote:

> The last couple of days my 650 has been pinging. It's doesn't > ping until it's hot from stop and go city riding ( it's also been in > the mid 80's outside.) After searching the archives on the > subject my first step is to try some higher octane gas. Any other > suggestions? Am I doing harm to the engine if I continue to ride > with the ping until I figure out a sulution?

Check oil, and water levels. Make sure you didn't run across a tank of junk gas. Is your fan operating properly..... Just a few ideas.... good luck... T. Lampson

[andygump692000]

Have A16 with 15k on it used to be able to run regular gas without pinging, now it is pinging even when running premium. Tips on how to stop this would be app. Thanks in advance.

[Tumu Rock]

Checked the valves lately? dat brooklyn bum --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "andygump692000" wrote:

> Have A16 with 15k on it used to be able to run regular gas without > pinging, now it is pinging even when running premium. Tips on how

to

> stop this would be app. Thanks in advance.