t-mod - how?

[Don]

Just asking. After my first ride, I notice that a small amount of oil escaped from the lower half (bolt to bolt) of the cap. I took the cap off and in retrospect the o-ring (in a groove on the cap's skirt) probably wasn't being effective because it was so easy to take off and put back on. I talked to the dealer at a later visit (pick up these somewhat deficient and over-priced Kawie manuals) and they gave me a new o-ring to install (I assumed that it would replace the exisiting o- ring in the groove on the cap's skirt). The new o-ring made it a bit harder to overcome its resistance to properly seat the cap. And "Yes" the arrow is up. I thought that the "beefer" OEM o-ring was going to do the trick but... I still have enough oil leaking out after relatively short runs that I need to place cardboard under the bike so as not to stain the garage floor. Heck of a thing for a brand new bike. BTW - I hit the 500 mile mark and loosened and then tightened the Idler lever bolt to 6/7 ft-lbs. I also changed the oil (Kawie 10-40W) and a new Parts Unlimited filter. Can't believe that there are any abnormal pressure situations causing the problem. The oil filter by-pass tube is properly installed and seated. My questions are: 1.) The Kawie manual isn't as explicit as I would like but it "almost" seems to indicate that an o-ring fits under the lip of the filter cap and if that is the case, I would definitely believe that a good seal would be created. Should I have and o-ring up and under the cap's lip? 1.) Has this happened to others? 2.) If it has, what was your fix? 3.) Should I try to cut a gasket out of thin material or use a silicone sealer (must be a hair-line opening), so as not to create any unreasonable gaps at either end of the filter . Don R100 Airhead # 6696 KLR A6F

[klr6501995]

I'm probabely wrong. but I seem to think I heard about this before on this list. Something about porosity of the aluminium. It is possible that during manufacture the hole was drilled before thread tapping went all the way through. Oil would then leak past that bolt. Not a big issue. maybe some silicon sealent on the bolt threads could cure this. or teflon paste. The oil filter cap should be fairly tight with the proper o'ring. only one needed. I have actually left the bolts lose just to see what happens and the oil pressure did not push the cap out on a cold start.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Don" wrote: > > Just asking. After my first ride, I notice that a small amount of oil > escaped from the lower half (bolt to bolt) of the cap. I took the cap > off and in retrospect the o-ring (in a groove on the cap's skirt) > probably wasn't being effective because it was so easy to take off and > put back on. I talked to the dealer at a later visit (pick up these > somewhat deficient and over-priced Kawie manuals) and they gave me a > new o-ring to install (I assumed that it would replace the exisiting o- > ring in the groove on the cap's skirt). The new o-ring made it a bit > harder to overcome its resistance to properly seat the cap. And "Yes" > the arrow is up. > > I thought that the "beefer" OEM o-ring was going to do the trick > but... I still have enough oil leaking out after relatively short runs > that I need to place cardboard under the bike so as not to stain the > garage floor. Heck of a thing for a brand new bike. BTW - I hit the > 500 mile mark and loosened and then tightened the Idler lever bolt to > 6/7 ft-lbs. I also changed the oil (Kawie 10-40W) and a new Parts > Unlimited filter. Can't believe that there are any abnormal pressure > situations causing the problem. The oil filter by-pass tube is > properly installed and seated. > > My questions are: > 1.) The Kawie manual isn't as explicit as I would like but it "almost" > seems to indicate that an o-ring fits under the lip of the filter cap > and if that is the case, I would definitely believe that a good seal > would be created. Should I have and o-ring up and under the cap's > lip? > 1.) Has this happened to others? > 2.) If it has, what was your fix? > 3.) Should I try to cut a gasket out of thin material or use a silicone > sealer (must be a hair-line opening), so as not to create any > unreasonable gaps at either end of the filter . > > Don > R100 Airhead # 6696 > KLR A6F >

[Jimmie A.]

Could you crank case vent be plugged, and there is pressure building up in the crank case. The vent is on the top of the transmission, at the back of the engine. JimmieA.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Don" wrote: > > Just asking. After my first ride, I notice that a small amount of oil > escaped from the lower half (bolt to bolt) of the cap. I took the cap > off and in retrospect the o-ring (in a groove on the cap's skirt) > probably wasn't being effective because it was so easy to take off and > put back on. I talked to the dealer at a later visit (pick up these > somewhat deficient and over-priced Kawie manuals) and they gave me a > new o-ring to install (I assumed that it would replace the exisiting o- > ring in the groove on the cap's skirt). The new o-ring made it a bit > harder to overcome its resistance to properly seat the cap. And "Yes" > the arrow is up. > > I thought that the "beefer" OEM o-ring was going to do the trick > but... I still have enough oil leaking out after relatively short runs > that I need to place cardboard under the bike so as not to stain the > garage floor. Heck of a thing for a brand new bike. BTW - I hit the > 500 mile mark and loosened and then tightened the Idler lever bolt to > 6/7 ft-lbs. I also changed the oil (Kawie 10-40W) and a new Parts > Unlimited filter. Can't believe that there are any abnormal pressure > situations causing the problem. The oil filter by-pass tube is > properly installed and seated. > > My questions are: > 1.) The Kawie manual isn't as explicit as I would like but it "almost" > seems to indicate that an o-ring fits under the lip of the filter cap > and if that is the case, I would definitely believe that a good seal > would be created. Should I have and o-ring up and under the cap's > lip? > 1.) Has this happened to others? > 2.) If it has, what was your fix? > 3.) Should I try to cut a gasket out of thin material or use a silicone > sealer (must be a hair-line opening), so as not to create any > unreasonable gaps at either end of the filter . > > Don > R100 Airhead # 6696 > KLR A6F >

[Norm Keller]

>Just asking. After my first ride, I notice that a small >amount of oil escaped from the lower half (bolt to bolt) >of the cap.

It is desirable to lubricate the new "O" ring so that it slides into place more easily when the cap is being installed but I doubt that this is your problem. The cap should leak nothing at all. I recommend that you remove the cap and wipe everything dry for a good inspection. Is there a scratch in the surface of the oil filter cavity which damages the "O" ring? Is the scratch big enough to allow oil to get past the ring? I would not use sealers at this point because any sealer which enters could travel into an oil gallery with catastrophic results. Please keep us posted, Norm --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jeff Saline]

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:28:54 -0000 "Don" writes:

> Just asking. After my first ride, I notice that a small amount of oil > > escaped from the lower half (bolt to bolt) of the cap. I took the > cap > off and in retrospect the o-ring (in a groove on the cap's skirt) > probably wasn't being effective because it was so easy to take off > and > put back on.

Big Snippage

><><><><><>

<><><><><><> Don, I've thought about this over night. As much as I don't like a dealer working on my bike I think if I were in your position I'd take it back to them for a warranty correction. The cover shouldn't leak, seep, drip, drop or ooze oil. It should seal with just an o-ring. I'd be concerned if the repair was anything other than a new o-ring. You shouldn't have to use any sealant with the cover. If you allow that to be the fix now, you'll have to use it for the rest of the time you own the bike. And it will always be eating at you as you wonder when it will start leaking again. I have a similar situation on one of my airheads. I had to use high temperature RTV to seal the base gasket where the cylinder base is deformed about 0.003" at an oil passage. I didn't have the resources available to correctly fix the cylinder base when I was assembling the engine. I've now got about 18,000 smiles on that bike but even when I'm not riding it sometimes pops into my mind that some day that RTV will fail. I have a continual damp spot around the cylinder base and it collects dirt. It looks ugly but is functional. So get the dealer to fix it under warranty and make it a correct fix which doesn't require any sealant or special effort when changing the oil filter. When you're on a trip and do an oil change you'll be glad it's correct. Just my two cents. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT

[dbs52a]

Don: I agree entirely with Jeff. Have the dealer repair the oil leak under warranty. I have a couple of questions for you. From my experience with removing the oil filter cap, I know it requires a little careful coaxing to get it off. Did you use a screw driver or something similar to pry the cap off? If you did, there may be a chance that you either scratched, nicked or deformed the cap. Carefully inspect the cap and the mating surface on the engine to see if there's damage. Good luck and let us know how you do.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Don" wrote: > > Just asking. After my first ride, I notice that a small amount of oil > escaped from the lower half (bolt to bolt) of the cap. I took the cap > off and in retrospect the o-ring (in a groove on the cap's skirt) > probably wasn't being effective because it was so easy to take off and > put back on. I talked to the dealer at a later visit (pick up these > somewhat deficient and over-priced Kawie manuals) and they gave me a > new o-ring to install (I assumed that it would replace the exisiting o- > ring in the groove on the cap's skirt). The new o-ring made it a bit > harder to overcome its resistance to properly seat the cap. And "Yes" > the arrow is up. > > I thought that the "beefer" OEM o-ring was going to do the trick > but... I still have enough oil leaking out after relatively short runs > that I need to place cardboard under the bike so as not to stain the > garage floor. Heck of a thing for a brand new bike. BTW - I hit the > 500 mile mark and loosened and then tightened the Idler lever bolt to > 6/7 ft-lbs. I also changed the oil (Kawie 10-40W) and a new Parts > Unlimited filter. Can't believe that there are any abnormal pressure > situations causing the problem. The oil filter by-pass tube is > properly installed and seated. > > My questions are: > 1.) The Kawie manual isn't as explicit as I would like but it "almost" > seems to indicate that an o-ring fits under the lip of the filter cap > and if that is the case, I would definitely believe that a good seal > would be created. Should I have and o-ring up and under the cap's > lip? > 1.) Has this happened to others? > 2.) If it has, what was your fix? > 3.) Should I try to cut a gasket out of thin material or use a silicone > sealer (must be a hair-line opening), so as not to create any > unreasonable gaps at either end of the filter . > > Don > R100 Airhead # 6696 > KLR A6F >

[Jim]

This "should" be a simple one. Check: o-ring, cap and sealing surface on engine for any damage, cuts, cracks, scratches, etc. "Should" be obvious. Jim A17,,,,,have obviously missed things I "should" not have

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Don" wrote: > > Just asking. After my first ride, I notice that a small amount of oil > escaped from the lower half (bolt to bolt) of the cap. I took the cap > off and in retrospect the o-ring (in a groove on the cap's skirt) > probably wasn't being effective because it was so easy to take off and > put back on. I talked to the dealer at a later visit (pick up these > somewhat deficient and over-priced Kawie manuals) and they gave me a > new o-ring to install (I assumed that it would replace the exisiting o- > ring in the groove on the cap's skirt). The new o-ring made it a bit > harder to overcome its resistance to properly seat the cap. And "Yes" > the arrow is up. > > I thought that the "beefer" OEM o-ring was going to do the trick > but... I still have enough oil leaking out after relatively short runs > that I need to place cardboard under the bike so as not to stain the > garage floor. Heck of a thing for a brand new bike. BTW - I hit the > 500 mile mark and loosened and then tightened the Idler lever bolt to > 6/7 ft-lbs. I also changed the oil (Kawie 10-40W) and a new Parts > Unlimited filter. Can't believe that there are any abnormal pressure > situations causing the problem. The oil filter by-pass tube is > properly installed and seated. > > My questions are: > 1.) The Kawie manual isn't as explicit as I would like but it "almost" > seems to indicate that an o-ring fits under the lip of the filter cap > and if that is the case, I would definitely believe that a good seal > would be created. Should I have and o-ring up and under the cap's > lip? > 1.) Has this happened to others? > 2.) If it has, what was your fix? > 3.) Should I try to cut a gasket out of thin material or use a silicone > sealer (must be a hair-line opening), so as not to create any > unreasonable gaps at either end of the filter . > > Don > R100 Airhead # 6696 > KLR A6F >

[Blake Sobiloff]

On Apr 3, 2006, at 7:24 AM, dbs52a wrote:

> From my experience with > removing the oil filter cap, I know it requires a little careful > coaxing to get it off.

I've found the oil filter cover to be dramatically easier to get off when the engine is hot. Just a tip in case anyone's been struggling with getting the cover off. -- Blake Sobiloff http://sobiloff.typepad.com/> San Jose, CA (USA)

[dbs52a]

Hot engine? I hope so. You shouldn't be changing your oil if the engine is cold. Oil runs much better when hot ensuring as much crap as possible comes out with the oil. Even with a hot engine, the oil filter cap requires a little effort to get it out and off. Care must be taken to ensure it's done with no damage to components and seals. You --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Blake Sobiloff wrote:

> > On Apr 3, 2006, at 7:24 AM, dbs52a wrote: > > From my experience with > > removing the oil filter cap, I know it requires a little careful > > coaxing to get it off. > > I've found the oil filter cover to be dramatically easier to get

off

> when the engine is hot. Just a tip in case anyone's been struggling > with getting the cover off. > -- > Blake Sobiloff > http://sobiloff.typepad.com/> > San Jose, CA (USA) >

[Don]

Just wanted to post some pictures (three in Photo Section) of my continuing problem. Due to crummy weather and up to my kester doing income taxes, I haven't gotten to the dealer yet to see what they can do. The pic of the side case does and doesn't look that bad. This was taken after 40 miles of freshly graveled roads in a 150 mile day. The oil didn't run all of the way down and drip off the bottom because of the thick coating of stone dust. But it shows the blow back pattern of oil from the bottom of the filter cap. Don R100, A6F KLR

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Don" wrote: > > Just asking. After my first ride, I notice that a small amount of oil > escaped from the lower half (bolt to bolt) of the cap. I took the cap > off and in retrospect the o-ring (in a groove on the cap's skirt) > probably wasn't being effective because it was so easy to take off and > put back on. I talked to the dealer at a later visit (pick up these > somewhat deficient and over-priced Kawie manuals) and they gave me a > new o-ring to install (I assumed that it would replace the exisiting o- > ring in the groove on the cap's skirt). The new o-ring made it a bit > harder to overcome its resistance to properly seat the cap. And "Yes" > the arrow is up. > > I thought that the "beefer" OEM o-ring was going to do the trick > but... I still have enough oil leaking out after relatively short runs > that I need to place cardboard under the bike so as not to stain the > garage floor. Heck of a thing for a brand new bike. BTW - I hit the > 500 mile mark and loosened and then tightened the Idler lever bolt to > 6/7 ft-lbs. I also changed the oil (Kawie 10-40W) and a new Parts > Unlimited filter. Can't believe that there are any abnormal pressure > situations causing the problem. The oil filter by-pass tube is > properly installed and seated. > > My questions are: > 1.) The Kawie manual isn't as explicit as I would like but it "almost" > seems to indicate that an o-ring fits under the lip of the filter cap > and if that is the case, I would definitely believe that a good seal > would be created. Should I have and o-ring up and under the cap's > lip? > 1.) Has this happened to others? > 2.) If it has, what was your fix? > 3.) Should I try to cut a gasket out of thin material or use a silicone > sealer (must be a hair-line opening), so as not to create any > unreasonable gaps at either end of the filter . > > Don > R100 Airhead # 6696 > KLR A6F >