klr kaput (kontinued)

[E.L. Green]

jokerloco9@... wrote:

> Battery charge level is tested at no load condition

Which is utterly useless if I'm, like, *RIDING* the motorcycle. Because the battery is either charging or discharging at that point. That was my point. I don't know how "no load condition" testing got into this conversation, since you'll never see that on an operating KLR. And yes, it's complicated to figure out how much charge a battery has based upon its voltage under load. I mentioned the extensive testing we did to model battery behavior for our product. But the only thing you need to remember is that, under the load that the KLR places upon its battery, with the ignition switch turned on (battery under load) you'll be below 12 volts *quickly* upon failure of the charging system. Thus the 12v "idiot light" is not as useless as you made it out to be. (And yes, the voltage will recover when you turn off the switch, slowly approaching the no-load voltage, but we don't ride our KLR's with the ignition switch off!). -E

[Bill Watson]

The thing that I found most questionable has not come up in the discussions yet. The "overcharging" light starts at 15 volts. That seems quite high to me. The definition of "charging voltage goal" seems to vary a bit, but after some study I'm thinking around 13.8 to 14 volts is the goal. My KLR system reads in the low 14's for voltage while I ride, and I manage to boil out 6-12 oz (yes, OUNCES!) of water in my stock battery every 2000 miles! There are no leaks. So even though I'd report "green" with this indicator, something seems excessive. I'm tired of removing the battery for a refill every 2 months... looking forward to a maintenance free version when this one dies. I would have thought 'overcharging' might be triggered at something a lot closer to 14 rather than 15 volts. Bill Watson Phoenix __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[jokerloco9@aol.com]

If you are riding the bike and getting 12 volts, you have a problem. The KLR regulator is set at something like 14 volts. Check manual for the range. If you are outside this range, then the charging circut has failed, or you are running too many circuts for the available charging system. Charging system could be fine, just overloaded. Also, the ignition is powered by a separate system. Jeff A20 -----Original Message----- From: E.L. Green To: jokerloco9@... Cc: salinej1@...; james.morrowsr@...; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:50:15 -0800 Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] LED voltage monitor jokerloco9@... wrote:

> Battery charge level is tested at no load condition

Which is utterly useless if I'm, like, *RIDING* the motorcycle. Because the battery is either charging or discharging at that point. That was my point. I don't know how "no load condition" testing got into this conversation, since you'll never see that on an operating KLR. And yes, it's complicated to figure out how much charge a battery has based upon its voltage under load. I mentioned the extensive testing we did to model battery behavior for our product. But the only thing you need to remember is that, under the load that the KLR places upon its battery, with the ignition switch turned on (battery under load) you'll be below 12 volts *quickly* upon failure of the charging system. Thus the 12v "idiot light" is not as useless as you made it out to be. (And yes, the voltage will recover when you turn off the switch, slowly approaching the no-load voltage, but we don't ride our KLR's with the ignition switch off!). -E Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Rodney Copeland]

I wondered why my battery was so low on water one time. I then remembered my 10 tipovers, many on the left side. Then I bought a sealed battery! Rod --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Bill Watson wrote:

> > The thing that I found most questionable has not come up in the

discussions yet. The "overcharging" light starts at 15 volts. That seems quite high to me. The definition of "charging voltage goal" seems to vary a bit, but after some study I'm thinking around 13.8 to 14 volts is the goal. My KLR system reads in the low 14's for voltage while I ride, and I manage to boil out 6-12 oz (yes, OUNCES!) of water in my stock battery every 2000 miles! There are no leaks. So even though I'd report "green" with this indicator, something seems excessive. I'm tired of removing the battery for a refill every 2 months... looking forward to a maintenance free version when this one dies.

> > I would have thought 'overcharging' might be triggered at

something a lot closer to 14 rather than 15 volts.

> > Bill Watson > Phoenix > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

[Blake Sobiloff]

On 12/14/05, Bill Watson wrote:

> The definition of "charging voltage goal" seems to vary a bit, but > after some study I'm thinking around 13.8 to 14 volts is the goal.

I haven't done any research on what is a proper charging voltage, so I'll accept your statement. I'll submit that during the three days my last volt meter worked on my bike I noticed that the initial charging voltage after starting the bike and riding around would peak in the low 14-volt range for less than a minute, then drop down to the mid-13's. As I rode along the highway I'd see occasional spikes back into the low 14's that lasted for only a few seconds before dropping back to the mid-13's again. I'm not saying that this is the best behavior for a charging system, or even correct for a KLR, just what my particular bike exhibits.

> I would have thought 'overcharging' might be triggered at something > a lot closer to 14 rather than 15 volts.

Yeah, we're getting back to Eric's point that it'd sure be nice to have some adjustment possible with these devices to account for individual preferences. I guess you can't get it all unless you're willing to build it yourself! -- Blake Sobiloff San Jose, CA (USA)

[E.L. Green]

Bill Watson wrote:

>The thing that I found most questionable has not come up in the discussions yet. The "overcharging" light starts at 15 volts. That seems quite high to me. The definition of "charging voltage goal" seems to vary a bit, but after some study I'm thinking around 13.8 to 14 volts is the goal. My KLR system reads in the low 14's for voltage while I ride, and I manage to boil out 6-12 oz (yes, OUNCES!) of water in my stock battery every 2000 miles! >

This is dependent upon battery chemistry. For sealed batteries or low-maintenance lead-calcium batteries, the ideal charging voltage is 14.3 to 14.5 volts. As you point out, the older lead-antimony batteries boil out pretty rapidly at that level, but a low-maintenance battery will not fully charge at the 13.6 to 13.8 volts that is ideal for the old-timey flooded cell lead-antimony batteries. Personally, I think the best thing to do is get rid of the old timey battery and get one of the new sealed ones, which also has the advantage that it doesn't leak if you drop the bike. -E

[E.L. Green]

jokerloco9@... wrote:

> If you are riding the bike and getting 12 volts, you have a problem.

No duh! That's the whole point of the "idiot light" -- to tell you that you have a problem!

> The KLR regulator is set at something like 14 volts. Check manual for > the range. If you are outside this range, then the charging circut has > failed, or you are running too many circuts for the available charging > system. Charging system could be fine, just overloaded.

Absolutely. Which is why we need to know about this before it becomes critical. (My KLR's regulator actually puts out 14.3 volts, which is ideal for the new sealed batteries and boils the old wet cells like mad).

> Also, the ignition is powered by a separate system.

But headlight, tail-light, and instrument panel lights are not. My point -- that the 12v "idiot light" will quickly indicate a problem rather than being "useless" as someone previously stated -- remains true.

> -----Original Message----- > From: E.L. Green > To: jokerloco9@... > Cc: salinej1@...; james.morrowsr@...; > DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:50:15 -0800 > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] LED voltage monitor > >jokerloco9@... wrote: > >> Battery charge level is tested at no load condition > >Which is utterly useless if I'm, like, *RIDING* the motorcycle. Because >the battery is either charging or discharging at that point. That was my >point. I don't know how "no load condition" testing got into this >conversation, since you'll never see that on an operating KLR. > >And yes, it's complicated to figure out how much charge a battery has >based upon its voltage under load. I mentioned the extensive testing we >did to model battery behavior for our product. But the only thing you >need to remember is that, under the load that the KLR places upon its >battery, with the ignition switch turned on (battery under load) you'll >be below 12 volts *quickly* upon failure of the charging system. Thus >the 12v "idiot light" is not as useless as you made it out to be. (And >yes, the voltage will recover when you turn off the switch, slowly >approaching the no-load voltage, but we don't ride our KLR's with the >ignition switch off!). > >-E > > > >Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com http://www.dualsportnews.com> >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html> >Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

[Bill Watson]

Thanks for the reply Eric, I had not appreciated the different goal voltages for different battery types. Agreed, a sealed will go in my bike when the factory one dies. Considering how often mine gets 'boiled dry', I'm surprised it still works. Bill Watson Phoenix "E.L. Green" wrote: This is dependent upon battery chemistry. For sealed batteries or low-maintenance lead-calcium batteries, the ideal charging voltage is 14.3 to 14.5 volts. As you point out, the older lead-antimony batteries boil out pretty rapidly at that level, but a low-maintenance battery will not fully charge at the 13.6 to 13.8 volts that is ideal for the old-timey flooded cell lead-antimony batteries. Personally, I think the best thing to do is get rid of the old timey battery and get one of the new sealed ones, which also has the advantage that it doesn't leak if you drop the bike. -E --------------------------------- Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Krgrife@aol.com]

In a message dated 12/14/2005 11:17:43 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, gcurve2000@... writes: I would have thought 'overcharging' might be triggered at something a lot closer to 14 rather than 15 volts. My Kawi shop manual says regulator charging voltage up to 15 volts is acceptable range. Higher indicates regulator problem. My voltmeter shows 14.7 at higher revs with a good battery. I don't have nearly the amount of electrolyte boil off that you report. Kurt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[James Morrow Sr]

My interest in the LED voltage monitors you brought to my attention is that if the light is green at 12 or more volts you won't know if the charging system is working or not. You'll only know you have 12 volts or better. I hope mine is working the same (G). As mentioned the signal dynamics shows 1 volt ranges. If you are not at 13.5 volts or above when engine running (above idle) your charging system is not working. When you start your bike, the starter loads battery to 9-10 volts I was just trying to figure out how you came to the conclusion that two LEDS were better than 1volt signal increments. -- James Morrow Sr Union, MO '00' RT + dual plug + Bunkhouse '00' BUSA + 15hp '05' KLR650 + big fun factor [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]