new klr 650 ('06 model) owner question - this shouldn't be happening

[sbcglobal]

Well... I just talked with the shop that tore down the engine on my bike (name reserved for right now - until I have a chance to determine what's what). They said the piston and cylinder were fine, both ends of the rod were fine. The rod snapped just below the cylinder skirt. The reason it snapped they say, was "hydro-lock". Estimate is $2,800, parts and labor. They are describing hydro-lock as excess fuel in the crankcase resulting in detonation in the crankcase. The piston gets confused as to which way to go, puts undue stress on the rod, which then snaps. The excess fuel in the crankcase, they say, could be caused by leaving the petcock set to "prime" (n/a on my KLR - either on, off, or reserve), or leaky petcock draining fuel into the cylinder, past the rings, into the crankcase. What happened was that I had been riding around CO for about nine days (absolutely spectacular ride - Grand Junction, Gateway, Dolores, Ouray, Silverton, back to Grand Junction for a clutch cable for my buddy's BMW, Glenwood Springs, Boulder, Pueblo - wow!!!!!). Bike wasn't using oil, getting a little over 50 mpg, somewhere between 150 and 250 miles per day. Being a somewhat anal accountant type, the chain was lubed every day, the oil was checked every time I took a break. Coolant had been replaced before the ride with Water Wetter and never got past mid-temp gauge the entire trip. Petcock innards had all just been replaced. Big Cee petcock diaphragm installed. Carb disassembled and cleaned. The bike was just running great! The day the rod snapped I was riding from Pueblo to Gunnison, by way of Salida and Monarch pass. I had been riding about three hours and was near the bottom of Monarch, which is a relatively steep pass, sailing along at about 80mph, roughly 5,200 RPM, throttle rolled full off. All of a sudden the bike "clicked" and began shaking pretty violently. Really got my attention. My questions are, has anybody ever had a rod snap, or heard of a rod snapping on a KLR? Has anybody heard of "hydro-lock", to the extent of snapping a rod, especially under the conditions I've described? I know I'm asking for it, but all comments, thoughts, help appreciated. Chuck

----- Original Message ----- From: sbcglobal To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Julian Tech Question Buddy, When I took my trip in CO at the end of August my bike developed a small hole in the front of the engine case. Just about in front of the lower rod end. I was being nice to it, honest. Think we have enough time to do a complete teardown and rebuild? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: Conall To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 1:31 PM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Julian Tech Question Are you offering Nitrogen refills for tires yet? Costco has them. I can here the PR now. Conall --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Seifert" wrote: > We can do what ever needs to be done at the Tech Day..........we'll even > change the air in your tires, too!! We also allow a little "SwapMeet" > action if it doesn't get too out of hand as well. > > See you on the 1st. > > Buddy > bseifert71@m... Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Randy Shultz]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "sbcglobal" wrote:

> > They are describing hydro-lock as excess fuel in the crankcase

resulting in detonation in the crankcase. The piston gets confused as to which way to go, puts undue stress on the rod, which then snaps.

>

--- I've never heard that description attached to "hydrolock", has anyone else? I always associatesd hydro with water: as in water hetting sucked into the engine through the air intake and the piston or rod breaking due to the non-compressability of water. Igniting fuel in the crankcase sounds like a plain old explosion to me...

[Tengai Mark Van Horn]

At 3:50 PM -0700 9/12/05, sbcglobal wrote:

>Well... I just talked with the shop that tore down the engine on my >bike (name reserved for right now - until I have a chance to >determine what's what). They said the piston and cylinder were fine, >both ends of the rod were fine. The rod snapped just below the >cylinder skirt. The reason it snapped they say, was "hydro-lock". >Estimate is $2,800, parts and labor. > >They are describing hydro-lock as excess fuel in the crankcase >resulting in detonation in the crankcase. The piston gets confused >as to which way to go, puts undue stress on the rod, which then >snaps. The excess fuel in the crankcase, they say, could be caused >by leaving the petcock set to "prime" (n/a on my KLR - either on, >off, or reserve), or leaky petcock draining fuel into the cylinder, >past the rings, into the crankcase.

Smells like horse$hit. The crankcase has breather tube with no kind of valving in the crankcase ventilation system. If you check your sight glass in the morning, you would notice the increased volume and decreased viscosity of the fuel-diluted oil in the crankcase. You'd also be blowing the mix out the breather such that a puddle would be under the bike from the airbox drain. The oil-fuel mix in the crankcase would have a higher flashpoint than gas alone and I doubt it would ignite. Even if it did, you'd probably blow off the crankcase breather tube and toast your air filter if enough pressure was built up to break the rod. Mark

[Greg Guithues]

At 3:50 PM -0700 9/12/05, sbcglobal wrote:

> >Well... I just talked with the shop that tore down the engine on my > >bike (name reserved for right now - until I have a chance to > >determine what's what). They said the piston and cylinder were fine, > >both ends of the rod were fine. The rod snapped just below the > >cylinder skirt. The reason it snapped they say, was "hydro-lock". > >Estimate is $2,800, parts and labor. > > > >They are describing hydro-lock as excess fuel in the crankcase > >resulting in detonation in the crankcase. The piston gets confused > >as to which way to go, puts undue stress on the rod, which then > >snaps. The excess fuel in the crankcase, they say, could be caused > >by leaving the petcock set to "prime" (n/a on my KLR - either on, > >off, or reserve), or leaky petcock draining fuel into the cylinder, > >past the rings, into the crankcase. On 9/12/05, Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote: > Smells like horse$hit. (snip) > Mark > > > > What MARK said. A15 - with only 2000 miles. I guess it's out of warranty. bummer. The rod snapped because it was defective. Unless you were running the bike underwater you did not have hydro lock. If you were running it underwater I'll take back what I said about the defective rod . -Greg. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[dolomoto@peoplepc.com]

I think there's some misuse of terms. I think the term where a piston tries to compress a liquid is hydraulic lock. Hydro more or less means water vs. hydraulic which indicates a liquid. It is possible to do major engine damage when gas leaks past the carb and into the cylinder. The hapless rider thumbs the starter button...whammo. Something has gotta give. It's very possible to break a conrod due to hydraulic lock. Just my two cents. Austin 89 KLR 650

----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Guithues" To: ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Cc: "Tengai Mark Van Horn" Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 10:22 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Indestructible A15 KLR 650 snaps rod at just over 2K miles > At 3:50 PM -0700 9/12/05, sbcglobal wrote: >> >Well... I just talked with the shop that tore down the engine on my >> >bike (name reserved for right now - until I have a chance to >> >determine what's what). They said the piston and cylinder were fine, >> >both ends of the rod were fine. The rod snapped just below the >> >cylinder skirt. The reason it snapped they say, was "hydro-lock". >> >Estimate is $2,800, parts and labor. >> > >> >They are describing hydro-lock as excess fuel in the crankcase >> >resulting in detonation in the crankcase. The piston gets confused >> >as to which way to go, puts undue stress on the rod, which then >> >snaps. The excess fuel in the crankcase, they say, could be caused >> >by leaving the petcock set to "prime" (n/a on my KLR - either on, >> >off, or reserve), or leaky petcock draining fuel into the cylinder, >> >past the rings, into the crankcase. > > > > On 9/12/05, Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote: >> Smells like horse$hit. > > > (snip) > > >> Mark >> >> >> >> What MARK said. A15 - with only 2000 miles. I guess it's out of warranty. > bummer. The rod snapped because it was defective. Unless you were running > the bike underwater you did not have hydro lock. If you were running it > underwater I'll take back what I said about the defective rod . > > -Greg. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[wannabsmooth1]

Smells a little funny, given the conditions. Hydraulic lock could break things - but - he's running on the road, right? So, the crankcase has been pumping for a while right? The KLR usually blows oil, etc, on the road, right? BTW, how can a piston get "confused"????? Detonation - in the crankase??? PUHLEEZE!! Probably not worth spending the money to find out why it REALLY broke. Bottom line - gotta get the engine fixed. $2800 is too much!! We'll find a way....... all the best, Mike Eagle Mfg & Eng since 1990 San Diego, Ca. wrote:

> I think there's some misuse of terms. I think the term where a

piston tries

> to compress a liquid is hydraulic lock. Hydro more or less means

water vs.

> hydraulic which indicates a liquid. > > It is possible to do major engine damage when gas leaks past the

carb and

> into the cylinder. The hapless rider thumbs the starter

button...whammo.

> Something has gotta give. > > It's very possible to break a conrod due to hydraulic lock. > > Just my two cents. > > Austin > 89 KLR 650 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Greg Guithues" > To: ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > Cc: "Tengai Mark Van Horn" > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 10:22 PM > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Indestructible A15 KLR 650 snaps rod at

just over

> 2K miles > > > > At 3:50 PM -0700 9/12/05, sbcglobal wrote: > >> >Well... I just talked with the shop that tore down the engine on my > >> >bike (name reserved for right now - until I have a chance to > >> >determine what's what). They said the piston and cylinder were fine, > >> >both ends of the rod were fine. The rod snapped just below the > >> >cylinder skirt. The reason it snapped they say, was "hydro-lock". > >> >Estimate is $2,800, parts and labor. > >> > > >> >They are describing hydro-lock as excess fuel in the crankcase > >> >resulting in detonation in the crankcase. The piston gets confused > >> >as to which way to go, puts undue stress on the rod, which then > >> >snaps. The excess fuel in the crankcase, they say, could be caused > >> >by leaving the petcock set to "prime" (n/a on my KLR - either on, > >> >off, or reserve), or leaky petcock draining fuel into the cylinder, > >> >past the rings, into the crankcase. > > > > On 9/12/05, Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote: > >> Smells like horse$hit. > > (snip) > >> Mark > >> What MARK said. A15 - with only 2000 miles. I guess it's out of

warranty.

> > bummer. The rod snapped because it was defective. Unless you were

running

> > the bike underwater you did not have hydro lock. If you were

running it

> > underwater I'll take back what I said about the defective rod . > > > > -Greg.

[Russell Scott]

Any chance the mechanic was perusing a mountain bike magazine, reading an ad for the Camelbak Hydrolock feature, when you asked him what was wrong with your motor? R -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Greg Guithues Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 7:22 PM To: clcooper@...; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Cc: Tengai Mark Van Horn Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Indestructible A15 KLR 650 snaps rod at just over 2K miles At 3:50 PM -0700 9/12/05, sbcglobal wrote:

> >Well... I just talked with the shop that tore down the engine on my > >bike (name reserved for right now - until I have a chance to > >determine what's what). They said the piston and cylinder were fine, > >both ends of the rod were fine. The rod snapped just below the > >cylinder skirt. The reason it snapped they say, was "hydro-lock". > >Estimate is $2,800, parts and labor. > > > >They are describing hydro-lock as excess fuel in the crankcase > >resulting in detonation in the crankcase. The piston gets confused > >as to which way to go, puts undue stress on the rod, which then > >snaps. The excess fuel in the crankcase, they say, could be caused > >by leaving the petcock set to "prime" (n/a on my KLR - either on, > >off, or reserve), or leaky petcock draining fuel into the cylinder, > >past the rings, into the crankcase.

[GW De Lacey]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 03:11:26 -0000, you wrote: Agreed Interestingly, SOP for starting big radial engines on aeroplanes includes hand/starter motor rotating before turning the ignition on. Seems oil and fuel can accumulate in the combustion space of the lower cylinders, reducing the size of the space, and this can cause severe detonation. The results can vary from a smashed head to a bent push rod etc. Also if water enters the air intake of a diesel, the result can be a bent pushrod or a smashed piston or a broken crankshaft etc. Both of these are referred to as "hydraulic king". I don't know what "detonation in the crankcase" would be called, but my guess is that it is so rare that it doesn't have a name -- GW >Smells a little funny, given the conditions. Hydraulic lock could >break things - but - he's running on the road, right? So, the >crankcase has been pumping for a while right? The KLR usually blows >oil, etc, on the road, right? > >BTW, how can a piston get "confused"????? Detonation - in the >crankase??? PUHLEEZE!! > >Probably not worth spending the money to find out why it REALLY broke. > >Bottom line - gotta get the engine fixed. $2800 is too much!! We'll >find a way....... > >all the best, > >Mike >Eagle Mfg & Eng since 1990 >San Diego, Ca. > wrote: >> I think there's some misuse of terms. I think the term where a >piston tries >> to compress a liquid is hydraulic lock. Hydro more or less means >water vs. >> hydraulic which indicates a liquid. >> >> It is possible to do major engine damage when gas leaks past the >carb and >> into the cylinder. The hapless rider thumbs the starter >button...whammo. >> Something has gotta give. >> >> It's very possible to break a conrod due to hydraulic lock. >> >> Just my two cents. >> >> Austin >> 89 KLR 650 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Greg Guithues" >> To: ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> >> Cc: "Tengai Mark Van Horn" >> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 10:22 PM >> Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Indestructible A15 KLR 650 snaps rod at >just over >> 2K miles >> >> >> > At 3:50 PM -0700 9/12/05, sbcglobal wrote: >> >> >Well... I just talked with the shop that tore down the engine on my >> >> >bike (name reserved for right now - until I have a chance to >> >> >determine what's what). They said the piston and cylinder were fine, >> >> >both ends of the rod were fine. The rod snapped just below the >> >> >cylinder skirt. The reason it snapped they say, was "hydro-lock". >> >> >Estimate is $2,800, parts and labor. >> >> > >> >> >They are describing hydro-lock as excess fuel in the crankcase >> >> >resulting in detonation in the crankcase. The piston gets confused >> >> >as to which way to go, puts undue stress on the rod, which then >> >> >snaps. The excess fuel in the crankcase, they say, could be caused >> >> >by leaving the petcock set to "prime" (n/a on my KLR - either on, >> >> >off, or reserve), or leaky petcock draining fuel into the cylinder, >> >> >past the rings, into the crankcase. >> > >> > On 9/12/05, Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote: >> >> Smells like horse$hit. >> > (snip) >> >> Mark >> >> What MARK said. A15 - with only 2000 miles. I guess it's out of >warranty. >> > bummer. The rod snapped because it was defective. Unless you were >running >> > the bike underwater you did not have hydro lock. If you were >running it >> > underwater I'll take back what I said about the defective rod . >> > >> > -Greg. > > > > > >Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[Gee Ja]

Wouldn't the automatic compression release (KACR) bleed off some of the fluid in the cylinder from the initial cranking, assuming the gas from an overflowing carb went sideways into the cylinder? Seems more likely with a downdraft carb setup, and unlikely in this case. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jud Jones]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "wannabsmooth1" wrote:

> Smells a little funny, given the conditions. Hydraulic lock could > break things - but - he's running on the road, right? So, the > crankcase has been pumping for a while right? The KLR usually blows > oil, etc, on the road, right? > > BTW, how can a piston get "confused"????? Detonation - in the > crankase??? PUHLEEZE!! > > Probably not worth spending the money to find out why it REALLY broke. >

I don't buy detonation in the crankcase either. But an episode or two of liquid in the combustion chamber could have stressed the rod to where it broke later. Wasn't there recently a thread on ADVRider or where a guy dropped his Tiger repeatedly on the White Rim Trail, each time filling the combustion chamber with oil and having difficulty starting it? Then on the ride home he threw a rod someplace in Mew Mexico. The dealer thought it fit a familiar pattern.