sighted:klr on brp near roanoke...

DSN_KLR650
Bill Ryder
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:29 am

ethics and bad name i'd like louder exhaust, no jetting. im

Post by Bill Ryder » Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 pm

I have to say Mr. Mumford, that the tone and anger exhibited in your post is far more objectionable than anything that may come out of my bike's exhaust. You make me want to take the whole pipe off my bike and hold it at 8000 RPMs next to your bedroom until I suck the valves through the motor. Freaken relax. And get the freak out of my technical thread for the love of Pete!! Its all gone to pot and I'm very sad now! The most offensive person ever to post, arguing against being offensive. You sir, are the definition of hypocrisy. Muffle your pie hole first and strap some stock exhaust on your freaken face. That might make a few people like motorcyclists more. Forgive me but I need to go singe a forest with the KE100 I just ripped the spark arrestor from in protest to your post. It doesn't go very fast, but it'll cook an awful lot of wildlife for ya. Do you want a wing or a leg? For the record, I'm just joking. Good lord man, in all seriousness...take some blood pressure meds. Other readers: as I am brand new to this group, is this guy's post considered acceptable? Being new and all I'm wishing I'll see about 50 posts jumping all over this guy. Have I been trolled...or is this person typical? (After all, a courtship goes two ways; we are evaluating "each other." :) Maybe I should leave *now*. I didn't want to go there but I see you have people here that might just tap into my dark side. I have to admit to you people that I have a problem; it's the first step to re-recovery: I enjoy ripping up the less intellectually endowed who are badly arguing ridiculous points of opinion. It's like a drug. On some level it's like: "bring it ON oh loud mouth of greater capacity than the aftermarket exhaust on my bike that you so despise! Prove why I should not listen to you without my even having to answer you at all." Oh the joy. Now I need rehab again. And I thought I had matured. 2 Freaken days here...just 2 freaken days. haha -Bill --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Mumford" wrote:
> > -----Original Message----- > > > >> Your conscience should be your guide, not what people who
don't even
> > > >> know > > > >> you think - unless of course your noise levels violate your
local
> > > >> statutes, > > > >> in which case it's between you and law enforcement. > > Being a good example is one reason not to have loud pipes. No one
ever gets
> mad about a motorcycle that is too quiet. I like next to some (as
yet)
> undeveloped hills that get a few riders on them on the weekend, and
the only
> thing that pisses me off is the noise. You have a quiet 4 stroke?
Ride 'til
> the wheels come off. You got some uncorked piece of crap, ruin my
Sunday
> nap, wake up my sleeping toddler, I find it hars to appreciate that
level of
> selfishness and inconsiderate behavior. > > As far as "between you and law enforcement", that kind of chicken
shit
> reasoning is indicative of a lot that is wrong with contemporary
society, in
> my opinion. > If you are the least bit enlightened, legality is a non issue. I
mean let's
> face it, it's legal to do a lot of objectionable, offensive,
antisocial
> thing things, but who wants to be labeled an asshole? > And don't kid yourself, when some Hell's Accountant rides by and
scares /
> annoys / wakes up Joe Public, he is pissed at all riders, not just
the twerp
> with the pipes. > You make us all look bad. > Knock it off. > > > > > >> Frankly, my KLR has seen nearly 60,000 miles on the stock
system and
> > > >> will > > > >> probably end up a little noisier at some point in the near
future
> > > >> because > > > >> yes, it can reduce accidents. I'll grant that statistics may
not
> > > >> support > > > >> it, but for that brief moment I move through a blind spot, a
louder
> > > >> exhaust > > > >> provides an additional clue to the Last Minute Larry's who
would
> > > >> change > > > >> lanes into me that they better look around a little more
thoroughly
> > > >> before > > > >> doing it. > > > >> > > > >> - > > > >> Kip > > > >> Eugene, OR > > > This is 100% pure unadulterated BS. > For the love of Jesus, I hope no one is foolish enough to really
believe the
> above paragraph. > > "Statistics may not support it". Indeed. BECAUSE IT IS NOT TRUE! > On what do you base this idiotic conclusion then? > A Ouija board? The voices in your head? > > If you are counting on your pipes to give you some safety, you are
out of
> your mind. > Riding safety comes from good riding. PERIOD. > > I try to be a dynamic rider, in command of whatever situation I
find myslef
> in at any given time. > Master of the ride, rather than victim of it. > If you need to make noise on your bike, get a loud horn. > Go take the MSF course. > > Thanks > CA Stu > > > PS "I believe that there is a line of practicality to cross. At
some point,
> an > exhaust is excessively loud for little apparent purpose than to
annoy. On
> the other hand, just wait until you almost get run over in the local > Wal-mart parking lot stepping out in front of a Prius that you
didn't hear.
> Quiet can be dangerous - and when it is my life versus a little
annoyance
> from the cage driving public, I'm gonna go the selfish non-PC
route. We so
> often hear 'I never saw him'. At least if they hear you, you have
more of a
> chance." > > Are you on dope? This illogical, ridiculous post makes me want to
laugh.
> > I look both ways before I cross the road, I don't listen to see if
a car is
> coming. Jesus! > > PPS You never hear "I never heard him". > > Noise isn't power. > If there was a device that could make my bikes silent, I'd buy it. > I'll bet amongst most motorcycle enthusiasts, my point of view is
supported.

Steve Green
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2001 11:08 pm

ethics and bad name i'd like louder exhaust, no jetting. im

Post by Steve Green » Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:01 am

Here here !! I agree completely with Stu. The quieter the better. Excessive noise is the most annoying thing about motorcylces. Even more so for motorcycles ridden off road. Excessive noise is for vane, egocentric people who want people to notice them - not for safety, but for vanity. It goes hand in hand with the "no helmet" logic. Look at me everybody !!! Shhhhhhhteve (aka Esteban) --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Mumford" wrote:
> > -----Original Message----- > > > >> Your conscience should be your guide, not what people who
don't even
> > > >> know > > > >> you think - unless of course your noise levels violate your
local
> > > >> statutes, > > > >> in which case it's between you and law enforcement. > > Being a good example is one reason not to have loud pipes. No one
ever gets
> mad about a motorcycle that is too quiet. I like next to some (as
yet)
> undeveloped hills that get a few riders on them on the weekend, and
the only
> thing that pisses me off is the noise. You have a quiet 4 stroke?
Ride 'til
> the wheels come off. You got some uncorked piece of crap, ruin my
Sunday
> nap, wake up my sleeping toddler, I find it hars to appreciate that
level of
> selfishness and inconsiderate behavior. > > As far as "between you and law enforcement", that kind of chicken
shit
> reasoning is indicative of a lot that is wrong with contemporary
society, in
> my opinion. > If you are the least bit enlightened, legality is a non issue. I
mean let's
> face it, it's legal to do a lot of objectionable, offensive,
antisocial
> thing things, but who wants to be labeled an asshole? > And don't kid yourself, when some Hell's Accountant rides by and
scares /
> annoys / wakes up Joe Public, he is pissed at all riders, not just
the twerp
> with the pipes. > You make us all look bad. > Knock it off. > > > > > >> Frankly, my KLR has seen nearly 60,000 miles on the stock
system and
> > > >> will > > > >> probably end up a little noisier at some point in the near
future
> > > >> because > > > >> yes, it can reduce accidents. I'll grant that statistics may
not
> > > >> support > > > >> it, but for that brief moment I move through a blind spot, a
louder
> > > >> exhaust > > > >> provides an additional clue to the Last Minute Larry's who
would
> > > >> change > > > >> lanes into me that they better look around a little more
thoroughly
> > > >> before > > > >> doing it. > > > >> > > > >> - > > > >> Kip > > > >> Eugene, OR > > > This is 100% pure unadulterated BS. > For the love of Jesus, I hope no one is foolish enough to really
believe the
> above paragraph. > > "Statistics may not support it". Indeed. BECAUSE IT IS NOT TRUE! > On what do you base this idiotic conclusion then? > A Ouija board? The voices in your head? > > If you are counting on your pipes to give you some safety, you are
out of
> your mind. > Riding safety comes from good riding. PERIOD. > > I try to be a dynamic rider, in command of whatever situation I find
myslef
> in at any given time. > Master of the ride, rather than victim of it. > If you need to make noise on your bike, get a loud horn. > Go take the MSF course. > > Thanks > CA Stu > > > PS "I believe that there is a line of practicality to cross. At
some point,
> an > exhaust is excessively loud for little apparent purpose than to
annoy. On
> the other hand, just wait until you almost get run over in the local > Wal-mart parking lot stepping out in front of a Prius that you
didn't hear.
> Quiet can be dangerous - and when it is my life versus a little
annoyance
> from the cage driving public, I'm gonna go the selfish non-PC route.
We so
> often hear 'I never saw him'. At least if they hear you, you have
more of a
> chance." > > Are you on dope? This illogical, ridiculous post makes me want to
laugh.
> > I look both ways before I cross the road, I don't listen to see if a
car is
> coming. Jesus! > > PPS You never hear "I never heard him". > > Noise isn't power. > If there was a device that could make my bikes silent, I'd buy it. > I'll bet amongst most motorcycle enthusiasts, my point of view is
supported.

Pat Schmid

ethics and bad name i'd like louder exhaust, no jetting. im

Post by Pat Schmid » Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:55 am

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Chait" wrote:
> > > I agree completely with Stu. The quieter the better. Excessive noise > > is the most annoying thing about motorcylces. Even more so for > > motorcycles ridden off road. > > > > Excessive noise is for vane, egocentric people who want people to > > notice them - not for safety, but for vanity. It goes hand in hand > > with the "no helmet" logic. > > > > Look at me everybody !!! > > > > Shhhhhhhteve (aka Esteban) > > > > > By the way, you might want to ask Stuart what exhausts he is running
on his
> bikes. I think you might be surprised:). > > ed > A17
He may have gone back to the stock pipe, but it wasn't that long ago that he was singing the praise of the Big Gun noise maker. And before that wasn't he a LaserPro fan? Look guys, rather he means to or not, Stu is one of those types that is always 'stiring the pot'. No matter what the topic, no matter which side he chooses to take at the moment, the way Stu says it seems to always get a rise out of someone. Myself, I've run a Cobra, Supertrapp and FMF on my bike. The Cobra was the loudest, the Supertrapp has a poor record of surviving the falls so I'm currently running an FMF Q pipe, which I think is the quietest of the three. I choose the aftermarket route not for extra power but for less weight. With were the pipe hangs it has a lot of leverage effect on the bike's COG. Off road, removing that weight is a benefit for handling, just like removing all the tank vapor recovery hardware. While I'm not politically correct in my choice, by my unscientific rest stop surveys, my bike is something people point to when saying, why can't they run something quieter like that guy? Pat G'ville, NV

Bill Ryder
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:29 am

ethics and bad name i'd like louder exhaust, no jetting. im

Post by Bill Ryder » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:50 am

I'm not sure you completely agree with Stu. You cite "excessive noise." Stu was talking about "loud pipes." The loudness of a pipe seems fairly subjective to me, and some people might say that no motor vehicle beyond an idling Lexus should be allowed because the rest have "loud pipes." My sense is that most people contributing to this thread so far, in contrast, would agree that "excessive noise" is unacceptable. But, excessive noise to me, means breaking the legal limits and/or running open pipes...something like that. No one in this thread indicated wanting to create "excessive noise." I started out asking how to make my bike louder than stock. My thread got hijacked by people making all kinds of assumptions without asking me any questions, and suddenly we're at the point where you seem to think someone would like to produce "excessive noise" and not wear a helmet. Where is this coming from? And what research do you have to say that louder bikes are not safer? No one seems to want to answer this question. And how are you able to say with certainty in a broad and general way, that the desire for louder sound is derived from vanity and ego? Use some common sense. Who, being most concerned with vanity and ego, would drive a KLR650 as his/her primary ride in the first place? Everyone at my workplace wants to know why I bought "a dirt bike." Harleys and sport bikes alike seem to consider whether I am valid enough to bother waving to before doing so. And making my bike louder can only mean, according to the critics within this thread, that in addition grandma and grandpa public won't like me either. Your comments about ego seem totally inappropriate within a KLR list in particular. I want to be cool, so I bought a KLR650 and ripped the pipes of off it? That'd be like Gomer Pile buying a gold necklace with a big Mercedes emblem attached to it; who's gonna think that's cool? I've said it once before but I'll say it again: if your true goal is to convince someone not to use loud pipes because it is offensive, about the least effective way of doing it is by being as offensive as possible to those you are trying to convince. I suggest that the intent of *your post* is to say "look at me everybody" and derived from nothing more then ego. See the definition of hypocrite at http://dictionary.com At the very least, know that you've convinced me of nothing...accept maybe that you are the kind of person I'd really hope to piss off...if anyone...pipes or no pipes. -Bill
--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Green" wrote: > Here here !! > > I agree completely with Stu. The quieter the better. Excessive noise > is the most annoying thing about motorcylces. Even more so for > motorcycles ridden off road. > > Excessive noise is for vane, egocentric people who want people to > notice them - not for safety, but for vanity. It goes hand in hand > with the "no helmet" logic. > > Look at me everybody !!! > > Shhhhhhhteve (aka Esteban) > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Mumford" > wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > >> Your conscience should be your guide, not what people who > don't even > > > > >> know > > > > >> you think - unless of course your noise levels violate your > local > > > > >> statutes, > > > > >> in which case it's between you and law enforcement. > > > > Being a good example is one reason not to have loud pipes. No one > ever gets > > mad about a motorcycle that is too quiet. I like next to some (as > yet) > > undeveloped hills that get a few riders on them on the weekend, and > the only > > thing that pisses me off is the noise. You have a quiet 4 stroke? > Ride 'til > > the wheels come off. You got some uncorked piece of crap, ruin my > Sunday > > nap, wake up my sleeping toddler, I find it hars to appreciate that > level of > > selfishness and inconsiderate behavior. > > > > As far as "between you and law enforcement", that kind of chicken > shit > > reasoning is indicative of a lot that is wrong with contemporary > society, in > > my opinion. > > If you are the least bit enlightened, legality is a non issue. I > mean let's > > face it, it's legal to do a lot of objectionable, offensive, > antisocial > > thing things, but who wants to be labeled an asshole? > > And don't kid yourself, when some Hell's Accountant rides by and > scares / > > annoys / wakes up Joe Public, he is pissed at all riders, not just > the twerp > > with the pipes. > > You make us all look bad. > > Knock it off. > > > > > > > > >> Frankly, my KLR has seen nearly 60,000 miles on the stock > system and > > > > >> will > > > > >> probably end up a little noisier at some point in the near > future > > > > >> because > > > > >> yes, it can reduce accidents. I'll grant that statistics may > not > > > > >> support > > > > >> it, but for that brief moment I move through a blind spot, a > louder > > > > >> exhaust > > > > >> provides an additional clue to the Last Minute Larry's who > would > > > > >> change > > > > >> lanes into me that they better look around a little more > thoroughly > > > > >> before > > > > >> doing it. > > > > >> > > > > >> - > > > > >> Kip > > > > >> Eugene, OR > > > > > > This is 100% pure unadulterated BS. > > For the love of Jesus, I hope no one is foolish enough to really > believe the > > above paragraph. > > > > "Statistics may not support it". Indeed. BECAUSE IT IS NOT TRUE! > > On what do you base this idiotic conclusion then? > > A Ouija board? The voices in your head? > > > > If you are counting on your pipes to give you some safety, you are > out of > > your mind. > > Riding safety comes from good riding. PERIOD. > > > > I try to be a dynamic rider, in command of whatever situation I find > myslef > > in at any given time. > > Master of the ride, rather than victim of it. > > If you need to make noise on your bike, get a loud horn. > > Go take the MSF course. > > > > Thanks > > CA Stu > > > > > > PS "I believe that there is a line of practicality to cross. At > some point, > > an > > exhaust is excessively loud for little apparent purpose than to > annoy. On > > the other hand, just wait until you almost get run over in the local > > Wal-mart parking lot stepping out in front of a Prius that you > didn't hear. > > Quiet can be dangerous - and when it is my life versus a little > annoyance > > from the cage driving public, I'm gonna go the selfish non-PC route. > We so > > often hear 'I never saw him'. At least if they hear you, you have > more of a > > chance." > > > > Are you on dope? This illogical, ridiculous post makes me want to > laugh. > > > > I look both ways before I cross the road, I don't listen to see if a > car is > > coming. Jesus! > > > > PPS You never hear "I never heard him". > > > > Noise isn't power. > > If there was a device that could make my bikes silent, I'd buy it. > > I'll bet amongst most motorcycle enthusiasts, my point of view is > supported.

Bill Ryder
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:29 am

ethics and bad name i'd like louder exhaust, no jetting. im

Post by Bill Ryder » Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:10 pm

Wouldn't want to disappoint: I agree that you should not waste time reading my posts so move on now, k? I'll await proof that you don't do what you say you will by replying at all. Can you possibly not? -Bill --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "DWakefield" wrote:
> I don't think you are joking. Always the disclaimer comes after
the abuse.
> You can see the tone on this group and it's really pretty pervasive
isn't
> it? Why don't you find somewhere else - I've only got so many
heartbeats
> left and I don't want to waste them reading your posts. I look
forward to
> your abusive reply. > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Bill Ryder > Sent: Monday, 8 August 2005 1:24 PM > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Ethics and Bad Name Re: Re: I'd like louder
exhaust,
> no jetting. Impossible? (way NKLR) > > I have to say Mr. Mumford, that the tone and anger exhibited in
your post is
> far more objectionable than anything that may come out of my bike's
exhaust.
> You make me want to take the whole pipe off my bike and hold it at
8000 RPMs
> next to your bedroom until I suck the valves through the motor. > > Freaken relax. And get the freak out of my technical thread for
the love of
> Pete!! Its all gone to pot and I'm very sad now! The most
offensive person
> ever to post, arguing against being offensive. You sir, are the
definition
> of hypocrisy. Muffle your pie hole first and strap some stock
exhaust on
> your freaken face. That might make a few people like motorcyclists
more.
> Forgive me but I need to go singe a forest with the KE100 I just
ripped the
> spark arrestor from in protest to your post. It doesn't go very
fast, but
> it'll cook an awful lot of wildlife for ya. Do you want a wing or
a leg?
> > For the record, I'm just joking. Good lord man, in all > seriousness...take some blood pressure meds. > > Other readers: as I am brand new to this group, is this guy's post > considered acceptable? Being new and all I'm wishing I'll see
about 50
> posts jumping all over this guy. Have I been trolled...or is this
person
> typical? (After all, a courtship goes two ways; we are
evaluating "each
> other." :) Maybe I should leave *now*. I didn't want to go there
but I see
> you have people here that might just tap into my dark side. > > I have to admit to you people that I have a problem; it's the first
step to
> re-recovery: I enjoy ripping up the less intellectually endowed who
are
> badly arguing ridiculous points of opinion. It's like a drug. On
some
> level it's like: "bring it ON oh loud mouth of greater capacity
than the
> aftermarket exhaust on my bike that you so despise! Prove why I
should not
> listen to you without my even having to answer you at all." Oh the
joy.
> Now I need rehab again. And I thought I had matured. 2 Freaken
days
> here...just 2 freaken days. > haha > > > -Bill > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Mumford" > wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > >> Your conscience should be your guide, not what people who > don't even > > > > >> know > > > > >> you think - unless of course your noise levels violate your > local > > > > >> statutes, > > > > >> in which case it's between you and law enforcement. > > > > Being a good example is one reason not to have loud pipes. No one > ever gets > > mad about a motorcycle that is too quiet. I like next to some (as > yet) > > undeveloped hills that get a few riders on them on the weekend,
and
> the only > > thing that pisses me off is the noise. You have a quiet 4 stroke? > Ride 'til > > the wheels come off. You got some uncorked piece of crap, ruin my > Sunday > > nap, wake up my sleeping toddler, I find it hars to appreciate
that
> level of > > selfishness and inconsiderate behavior. > > > > As far as "between you and law enforcement", that kind of chicken > shit > > reasoning is indicative of a lot that is wrong with contemporary > society, in > > my opinion. > > If you are the least bit enlightened, legality is a non issue. I > mean let's > > face it, it's legal to do a lot of objectionable, offensive, > antisocial > > thing things, but who wants to be labeled an asshole? > > And don't kid yourself, when some Hell's Accountant rides by and > scares / > > annoys / wakes up Joe Public, he is pissed at all riders, not just > the twerp > > with the pipes. > > You make us all look bad. > > Knock it off. > > > > > > > > >> Frankly, my KLR has seen nearly 60,000 miles on the stock > system and > > > > >> will > > > > >> probably end up a little noisier at some point in the near > future > > > > >> because > > > > >> yes, it can reduce accidents. I'll grant that statistics
may
> not > > > > >> support > > > > >> it, but for that brief moment I move through a blind spot,
a
> louder > > > > >> exhaust > > > > >> provides an additional clue to the Last Minute Larry's who > would > > > > >> change > > > > >> lanes into me that they better look around a little more > thoroughly > > > > >> before > > > > >> doing it. > > > > >> > > > > >> - > > > > >> Kip > > > > >> Eugene, OR > > > > > > This is 100% pure unadulterated BS. > > For the love of Jesus, I hope no one is foolish enough to really > believe the > > above paragraph. > > > > "Statistics may not support it". Indeed. BECAUSE IT IS NOT TRUE! > > On what do you base this idiotic conclusion then? > > A Ouija board? The voices in your head? > > > > If you are counting on your pipes to give you some safety, you are > out of > > your mind. > > Riding safety comes from good riding. PERIOD. > > > > I try to be a dynamic rider, in command of whatever situation I > find myslef > > in at any given time. > > Master of the ride, rather than victim of it. > > If you need to make noise on your bike, get a loud horn. > > Go take the MSF course. > > > > Thanks > > CA Stu > > > > > > PS "I believe that there is a line of practicality to cross. At > some point, > > an > > exhaust is excessively loud for little apparent purpose than to > annoy. On > > the other hand, just wait until you almost get run over in the
local
> > Wal-mart parking lot stepping out in front of a Prius that you > didn't hear. > > Quiet can be dangerous - and when it is my life versus a little > annoyance > > from the cage driving public, I'm gonna go the selfish non-PC > route. We so > > often hear 'I never saw him'. At least if they hear you, you have > more of a > > chance." > > > > Are you on dope? This illogical, ridiculous post makes me want to > laugh. > > > > I look both ways before I cross the road, I don't listen to see if > a car is > > coming. Jesus! > > > > PPS You never hear "I never heard him". > > > > Noise isn't power. > > If there was a device that could make my bikes silent, I'd buy it. > > I'll bet amongst most motorcycle enthusiasts, my point of view is > supported. > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > Yahoo! Groups Links

Bill Ryder
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:29 am

ethics and bad name i'd like louder exhaust, no jetting. im

Post by Bill Ryder » Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:21 pm

In all seriousness and with the utmost respect, I'm not sure what view you are supporting: that what is good for the sport is that bikes are as quiet as possible? Or that bikers try to be as safe as possible even when there is disagreement about how best to do that? -Bill --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "John Kokola" wrote:
> That's because most motorcycle enthusiasts know what is good for
the sport
> that they love ... and what isn't. > > "I never heard him coming" ... I'm going to use that, hope
you
> don't mind. > > --John Kokola > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com]On
> > Behalf Of Stuart Mumford > > > > > > Noise isn't power. > > If there was a device that could make my bikes silent, I'd buy it. > > I'll bet amongst most motorcycle enthusiasts, my point of view is > > supported. > >

Bill Ryder
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:29 am

ethics and bad name i'd like louder exhaust, no jetting. im

Post by Bill Ryder » Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:53 pm

As someone who's only been in this group for a couple days, I have to say that I think its been pretty much 50/50. The anti-loud guys seem to me to #1) be really pissed off and angry people. #2) not very tolerant of those with opposing opinions. #3) all seem to run aftermarket pipes anyhow, even while they moan about loud pipes. #4) ...and ironically, are much much *louder* and offensive, within the list if not on their bikes. But I've not seen evidence that they are the clear majority nor do not feel anything close to alone. #1 through 4 are my observations, like it or not, as a total newbie to this list. The very first sentence I wrote was "I'm a newbie in the group so be gentle. :)" Now I'm remembering about internet email lists, why I felt prompted to say that. I swear I'm going to try to go back into my hole and attempt to remain technical. I just find it so hard not to respond to being attacked. But I'll tell you this for sure: none of this discussion has had any effect on me at all with respect to my choices about running a quiet vs. loud exhaust. None. I am not saying I will run the loudest exhaust I can possibly find. I'm saying your arguments in swaying me one way or the other, have been totally and utterly ineffectual. You guys may want to consider this in shaping the next round of attacks you mount on someone with a technical question who starts his query with "I'm a newbie in the group so be gentle. :)" -Bill
--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Arden Kysely" wrote: > > Read all the responses, Kip. > > Are the majority pro- or anti- loud pipes? > > > > Thanks > > CA Stu > > Anti-. > > __Arden

Steve Green
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2001 11:08 pm

ethics and bad name i'd like louder exhaust, no jetting. im

Post by Steve Green » Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:57 pm

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Ryder" wrote:
> And how are you able to say with certainty in a broad and general > way, that the desire for louder sound is derived from vanity and > ego?
When it comes to psychology nothing is certain it is theory. The decision to have loud pipes and ride helmet-less is a psychological one on the part of the operator. Loud cars, loud bikes, are both efforts to be noticed. Why would you like to be noticed ? Vanity and ego, percieved power. We all are affected by this. It is human nature. I nor anyone else is immune. We all want to be respected, admired and noticed. However in some cases the cost is not worth the results. In My Opinion: It takes a mature mind to overcome the desire to be loud at the expense of others. The desire to be loud is very misplaced and detrimental when it comes to being out in silence of nature. It is also agravating and infringes on the rights of other people in populated areas. To have a single WR450 with a Big Gun exhaust fill an entire Colorado mountain valley with sound for miles is not cool. To have a straight piped Harley wake up 100s of sleeping people at 0230 hours with their excessive noise is not cool. You are infringing on others' rights at that point. As for why some do not like to wear helmets, this has always been a question for me. I once read a similar theory to the above Loud Pipe Theory and I agree. It is to be noticed - human vanity and ego at work again. As a general statement, People who do not wear helmets want to be seen. With a helmet you are just another anonymous rider. Without a helmet you are an individual who can be more easily recognized. (There's that bad-ass dude who rode up on the Harley.) This not a bad or good thing. I do not care if you do, or do not wear a helmet. It is your choice. (I almost always wear mine, but not 100% of the time.) Wear your hair how you want, get all the tatoos that will fit your body, earrings, obnoxious T-shirts are great. Ride helmet-less in a hail storm it is OK. Write what you want, any way you want to. But please do not infringe on my space with your excessively loud (95+ dB) motorcycles. That is my opinion, Steve

Bill Ryder
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:29 am

ethics and bad name i'd like louder exhaust, no jetting. im

Post by Bill Ryder » Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:38 pm

Well, I just plain disagree with you on the reason behind wanting a bike louder. I like the sound of a louder motorcycle. *I* like it. It's my preference, like I like black cars instead of red or green. I don't want the black car because someone else will like it. It's what *I* like. It goes along with the whole experience in my opinion of riding a motorcycle out in the open air, and being close to the machine, etc, etc. I find my quiet motorcycle annoying; I can't even hear the thing. So, I'm not arguing about loud being right or wrong. I am only addressing your flawed "theory" that the only reason one could want a loud bike is in order to satisfy vanity and ego. This is just incorrect; I don't know how else to put it. I personally do not care if other people look at me or not. If I did, I would have bought a GSXR or a Harley instead of a KLR (Harley not because they are loud, but because like it or not, there is a stigma attached and people do look at Harleys the way they would a Ferrari or a Corvette passing by). I also do not really care if you want to believe it or not. I'm just trying to provide you with information contrary to what you currently seem to believe, so that you can correct your beliefs if you so chose. I'm proof that your theory is wrong. You can chose not to believe it if you would like to but that is outside of my control. -Bill
--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Green" wrote: > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Ryder" wrote: > > And how are you able to say with certainty in a broad and general > > way, that the desire for louder sound is derived from vanity and > > ego? > > > When it comes to psychology nothing is certain it is theory. The > decision to have loud pipes and ride helmet-less is a psychological > one on the part of the operator. > > Loud cars, loud bikes, are both efforts to be noticed. Why would you > like to be noticed ? Vanity and ego, percieved power. > We all are affected by this. It is human nature. I nor anyone else is > immune. We all want to be respected, admired and noticed. However in > some cases the cost is not worth the results. > > In My Opinion: > It takes a mature mind to overcome the desire to be loud at the > expense of others. The desire to be loud is very misplaced and > detrimental when it comes to being out in silence of nature. It is > also agravating and infringes on the rights of other people in > populated areas. To have a single WR450 with a Big Gun exhaust fill an > entire Colorado mountain valley with sound for miles is not cool. To > have a straight piped Harley wake up 100s of sleeping people at 0230 > hours with their excessive noise is not cool. You are infringing on > others' rights at that point. > > As for why some do not like to wear helmets, this has always been a > question for me. I once read a similar theory to the above Loud Pipe > Theory and I agree. It is to be noticed - human vanity and ego at > work again. As a general statement, People who do not wear helmets > want to be seen. With a helmet you are just another anonymous rider. > Without a helmet you are an individual who can be more easily > recognized. (There's that bad-ass dude who rode up on the Harley.) > > This not a bad or good thing. I do not care if you do, or do not wear > a helmet. It is your choice. (I almost always wear mine, but not 100% > of the time.) > > Wear your hair how you want, get all the tatoos that will fit your > body, earrings, obnoxious T-shirts are great. Ride helmet-less in a > hail storm it is OK. Write what you want, any way you want to. > But please do not infringe on my space with your excessively loud (95+ > dB) motorcycles. > > That is my opinion, > > Steve

Bill Ryder
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:29 am

ethics and bad name i'd like louder exhaust, no jetting. im

Post by Bill Ryder » Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:03 pm

Ya, and notice, you aren't one who went out of your way to come flame me either. I understand there will be all types of people in a congregation of 5000+ people. The point is, the guys who dislike loud bikes and who seem first to post and speak up about it here...really seem abrasive. From someone coming from your point of view and demeanor this would be of serious concern to me because those representing your beliefs are probably alienating those who do not, and assuring that those with loud pipes will never possibly change their opinions. My view right now is that were I to keep my bike quiet I'd only be doing it to satisfy a bunch of loud mouth PC nosey bodies who hijacked my technical thread. I don't know anyone in the general public sitting around the dinner table at night going "life is excellent...accept for those damn Harley riding motorcycle guys with the loud pipes." Get over yourselves; there are way more important issues to fight about in the world right now. You guys are mad about my KLR with a SuperTrapp muffler on it? And not one person has quoted anything but personal opinions as rationale for their position. Why is someone else's personal opinion better than my own? I didn't ask for anyone's opinion on what I should do with my bike, other then from a technical perspective. So who's offensive? Me for wanting to buy an aftermarket muffler? but not the guys telling me how terrible I am? Why aren't you answering your brothers in arms and asking them to be nice too, so you don't look bad for belonging to their "PC nosey body" clique? -Bill
--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Mike Frey wrote: > > Bill Ryder wrote: > > >As someone who's only been in this group for a couple days, I have to > >say that I think its been pretty much 50/50. The anti-loud guys seem > >to me to #1) be really pissed off and angry people. #2) not very > >tolerant of those with opposing opinions. #3) all seem to run > >aftermarket pipes anyhow, even while they moan about loud pipes. > >#4) ...and ironically, are much much *louder* and offensive, within the > >list if not on their bikes. But I've not seen evidence that they are > >the clear majority nor do not feel anything close to alone. > > > You forgot #5) Smiles a lot, friendly, rarely angry, and prefers quiet > bikes -----> me

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