to each his own. - lube

[Mike Frey]

On a drive from Death Valley to Bakersfield exactly one year ago, my wife and I decided to drive up Ninemile Canyon / Kennedy Meadow Road (from 395 on the Owens Valley side) then planned to come down through Kernville and Lake Isabella. We were in a Ford Escape. At about 7500 feet, past Kennedy Meadows, there was a gate. "CLOSED - SNOW" Had I been on KLR, it would have been too hard to resist - I would have gone around it. Probably would have had to turn around some time down the road anyway, if I encountered 8 feet of snow blocking me. But... probably would have tried that too. Then someone would have found my skeletal remains 2 weeks later when the road opened.... Mike PA boy, accustomed to snow

[Jim]

Go through gates? Only when I'm on the wrong side, mostly. --Jim A-15 http://homepage.mac.com/bbjmini/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-05-01%2009.43.24%20-0700/Image-F824046CBA5F11D9.jpg> http://xs29.xs.to/pics/05203/IMAG0017.JPG

> Just got back from a trip that involved lots of locked forestry > service gates and three very unhappy riders which brings up the poll > question: To pass or not to pass?? > > Bonsall Baron

[hobbhavnklr650]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Matt Smith wrote: If you have ever wondered why we have locked gates, read on. > There are no gates on the roads to adventure, exploration and discovery > > > I'm not a big fan of locked gates ... especially when tagged federally > ... unless there is a safety warning a federal forestry service gate > is not going to stop me and damned str8 I'll hoot and hollar if they > try to ticket/fine me for being there or even arrest me. > > *shakes fist* > > I look at myself as a rider who respects his environment and those > around him, but I don't believe it is anyones right to prevent me from > crossing land just because it is land > > I happen to live in a rural community and yes I've had farmers come up > to me and ask me what I'm doin on thier land and I reply ... passing > through ... and generally they are fine. When it comes to crown land > (the same thing as federal land up here) I don't give a shit ... i > consider it my land and its no ones right to tell me otherwise ... > > Just ride with respect and no one should ultimately care, unless they > are an a$$hole, and in that case they deserve to have us all ride > throught he federal land. > > Did anyone stop Lewis and Clark with a gate? > > > On 5/17/05, Arden Kysely wrote: > > Where were you? Would a map check or a phone call to USFS have made > > your trip more pleasant? There are a lot of locked gates in our > > backcountry and I know from mountain biking many of the same roads > > that I ride with my KLR that rangers can be found on both sides of the > > gates. Since I would like to continue riding in my own back yard, I > > respect the gates. One way to get around them is to do some volunteer > > work for the Forest Service. Last month two buddies and I were able to > > ride roads that are normally off limits because we were doing some > > recon work for the rangers. > > > > __Arden > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Baron Tynan" > > wrote: > > > Greetings, > > > > > > Just got back from a trip that involved lots of locked forestry > > > service gates and three very unhappy riders which brings up the poll > > > question: To pass or not to pass?? > > > > > > Bonsall Baron > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >

[BLBacon]

WOW! I think I like Arden's approach best. But since some people think they own everything in the U.S. I can't argue with that. As a small private landowner myself I prefer that people ask first. It's no problem and I am not an a**hole about it. I do have a few restrictions that I offer in exchange for riding on my land that I pay taxes on: like not driving on the fields, etc. staying out of what I consider wildlife sanctuaries. I might add that from the landowner perpsective, nothing irratates me more than someone just using my property without asking first. This includes hunting, biking four wheeling, etc. I always give it my best effort to find the landowner first and ask. As far a gov't gates. I abide by them. Just because there is a road or a trail there doesn't meant that I have to go there. Maybe it was a temporary road not intended for full time use, and there may have been a reason for having it closed off that I don't know. Lewis and Clark didn't roads and trails, but I have an extensive amount of places to ride on state land and would like to keep it that way. I like to stay on the good side of the Forest Service. Just my thoughts, Brent REF: Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 09:39:36 -0600 From: Matt Smith Subject: Re: Re: NKLR New Poll - Locked Gate - To Pass or Not to Pass? There are no gates on the roads to adventure, exploration and discovery I'm not a big fan of locked gates ... especially when tagged federally .. unless there is a safety warning a federal forestry service gate is not going to stop me and damned str8 I'll hoot and hollar if they try to ticket/fine me for being there or even arrest me. *shakes fist* I look at myself as a rider who respects his environment and those around him, but I don't believe it is anyones right to prevent me from crossing land just because it is land I happen to live in a rural community and yes I've had farmers come up to me and ask me what I'm doin on thier land and I reply ... passing through ... and generally they are fine. When it comes to crown land (the same thing as federal land up here) I don't give a shit ... i consider it my land and its no ones right to tell me otherwise ... Just ride with respect and no one should ultimately care, unless they are an a$$hole, and in that case they deserve to have us all ride throught he federal land. Did anyone stop Lewis and Clark with a gate?

On 5/17/05, Arden Kysely wrote: > Where were you? Would a map check or a phone call to USFS have made > your trip more pleasant? There are a lot of locked gates in our > backcountry and I know from mountain biking many of the same roads > that I ride with my KLR that rangers can be found on both sides of the > gates. Since I would like to continue riding in my own back yard, I > respect the gates. One way to get around them is to do some volunteer > work for the Forest Service. Last month two buddies and I were able to > ride roads that are normally off limits because we were doing some > recon work for the rangers. > > __Arden > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Baron Tynan" > wrote: > > Greetings, > > > > Just got back from a trip that involved lots of locked forestry > > service gates and three very unhappy riders which brings up the poll > > question: To pass or not to pass?? > > > > Bonsall Baron

[klr6501995]

If there are no signs saying posted/no tresspasing or any thing forbidding my entry I will pass through. If there is a lock and chain I do not pass. regardless of sign. If there is chain and the lock is open I will pass through, hoping I don't get locked in. if the gate is closed when I happen upon it, Then I'll shut it behind me. If it is open I leave it open. That is what I learned in Wy and Ks. People are a lot more touchy in Fla. I stay away from residences by 100 yards if it's not a known public road. I have never heard a convincing view on why federal and state dirt roads can be locked and gated when it is obviouse the roads are grated once a year or so. We want to ride the roads, not through the sticks on a klr. I say if stupid people get stuck , well, they got stuck. I been stuck. Got myself out ,by myself; eventually.Mud sucks.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > I respect the gates, I respect the badge, I respect > the fine. I'd never go onto private property if I knew > it was private, as I want no one tresspassing on my > land as well. > This controversy came up on the Puget Sound DSNKLR > list. On Bainbridge Island Washington, there is a > "Moto Track", no signs, no gates. People 4wheel there, > dirt bike, and dump garbage. I've been told it is > private property, and the cops will stop you, but as > far as I am concerned, if there is no > sign/gate/barrier, I go for it. No, I would never dump > garbage, but have been known to get some air on the > klr on the whoops. > Locked gates are rarely a problem here in WA. If one > is locked, there are a thousand others that are not. > Likely when they are locked here it is due to the fact > youll die if you try it (logging trucks, washouts, > avalanche, landslides.) > In America, we have "private property rights", one of > the greatest aspects of freedom. I respect that > wholly, but if there is no sign, I think it's ok to > assume it's ok. Of course this can get you in trouble > too........... > --- Matt Smith wrote: > > There are no gates on the roads to adventure, > > exploration and discovery > > > > > > I'm not a big fan of locked gates ... especially > > when tagged federally > > ... unless there is a safety warning a federal > > forestry service gate > > is not going to stop me and damned str8 I'll hoot > > and hollar if they > > try to ticket/fine me for being there or even arrest > > me. > > > > *shakes fist* > > > > I look at myself as a rider who respects his > > environment and those > > around him, but I don't believe it is anyones right > > to prevent me from > > crossing land just because it is land > > > > I happen to live in a rural community and yes I've > > had farmers come up > > to me and ask me what I'm doin on thier land and I > > reply ... passing > > through ... and generally they are fine. When it > > comes to crown land > > (the same thing as federal land up here) I don't > > give a shit ... i > > consider it my land and its no ones right to tell me > > otherwise ... > > > > Just ride with respect and no one should ultimately > > care, unless they > > are an a$$hole, and in that case they deserve to > > have us all ride > > throught he federal land. > > > > Did anyone stop Lewis and Clark with a gate? > > > > > > On 5/17/05, Arden Kysely > > wrote: > > > Where were you? Would a map check or a phone call > > to USFS have made > > > your trip more pleasant? There are a lot of locked > > gates in our > > > backcountry and I know from mountain biking many > > of the same roads > > > that I ride with my KLR that rangers can be found > > on both sides of the > > > gates. Since I would like to continue riding in my > > own back yard, I > > > respect the gates. One way to get around them is > > to do some volunteer > > > work for the Forest Service. Last month two > > buddies and I were able to > > > ride roads that are normally off limits because we > > were doing some > > > recon work for the rangers. > > > > > > __Arden > > > > > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Baron Tynan" > > > > > wrote: > > > > Greetings, > > > > > > > > Just got back from a trip that involved lots of > > locked forestry > > > > service gates and three very unhappy riders > > which brings up the poll > > > > question: To pass or not to pass?? > > > > > > > > Bonsall Baron > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > > > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: > > www.dualsportnews.com > > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: > > www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > > > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: > > www.dualsportnews.com > > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: > > www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > DSN_KLR650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Make Yahoo! your home page > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Eric L. Green]

On Wed, 18 May 2005, klr6501995 wrote:

> If there are no signs saying posted/no tresspasing or any thing > forbidding my entry I will pass through. If there is a lock and > chain I do not pass. regardless of sign. If there is chain and the > lock is open I will pass through, hoping I don't get locked in.

...

> I have never heard a convincing view on why federal and state dirt > roads can be locked and gated when it is obviouse the roads are > grated once a year or so. We want to ride the roads, not through the > sticks on a klr. I say if stupid people get stuck , well, they got > stuck. I been stuck. Got myself out ,by myself; eventually.Mud sucks.

In some cases, the roads led to former ranches and the former ranch has now been added to a federal Wilderness area and thus mechanical vehicles of any kind are not allowed, not even bicycles (except for Feds, of course). As a backpacker, I appreciate the Wilderness areas because I don't get spewed with dirt by motorcyclists and 4x4's. As a motorcyclist, I appreciate the non-Wilderness areas because I can cover a lot of ground with my KLR and haul a lot of goodies with me while doing so, and get to some really cool entry points into the Wilderness areas where I can hop off my KLR and go hiking. There's enough land for both me the backpacker and me the motorcyclist as long as we don't do things that tick people off and get them to extend motorized vbehicle bans to larger areas. Going onto roads that are obviously closed is one of those things that will tick people off and extend motorized vehicle bans to larger areas, so I don't do it. -E

[Ramey]

Wilderness areas suck -----Original Message----- From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Eric L. Green Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 4:38 PM To: klr6501995 Cc: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: NKLR New Poll - Locked Gate - To Pass or Not to Pass?

On Wed, 18 May 2005, klr6501995 wrote: > If there are no signs saying posted/no tresspasing or any thing > forbidding my entry I will pass through. If there is a lock and > chain I do not pass. regardless of sign. If there is chain and the > lock is open I will pass through, hoping I don't get locked in. ... > I have never heard a convincing view on why federal and state dirt > roads can be locked and gated when it is obviouse the roads are > grated once a year or so. We want to ride the roads, not through the > sticks on a klr. I say if stupid people get stuck , well, they got > stuck. I been stuck. Got myself out ,by myself; eventually.Mud sucks. In some cases, the roads led to former ranches and the former ranch has now been added to a federal Wilderness area and thus mechanical vehicles of any kind are not allowed, not even bicycles (except for Feds, of course). As a backpacker, I appreciate the Wilderness areas because I don't get spewed with dirt by motorcyclists and 4x4's. As a motorcyclist, I appreciate the non-Wilderness areas because I can cover a lot of ground with my KLR and haul a lot of goodies with me while doing so, and get to some really cool entry points into the Wilderness areas where I can hop off my KLR and go hiking. There's enough land for both me the backpacker and me the motorcyclist as long as we don't do things that tick people off and get them to extend motorized vbehicle bans to larger areas. Going onto roads that are obviously closed is one of those things that will tick people off and extend motorized vehicle bans to larger areas, so I don't do it. -E Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links

[Pat Schmid]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "klr6501995" wrote:

> If there are no signs saying posted/no tresspasing or any thing > forbidding my entry I will pass through. If there is a lock and > chain I do not pass. regardless of sign. If there is chain and the > lock is open I will pass through, hoping I don't get locked in. > if the gate is closed when I happen upon it, Then I'll shut it behind > me. If it is open I leave it open. > That is what I learned in Wy and Ks. >

Most states out west have a simple rule. No trespassing signs mean don't venture off the road. An unlocked gate can be passed through, if it is open leave it open, if it is closed, close it behind you. Once past the gate, stick to the road. Locked gates mean stay out. That simple. Several years ago I was showing a friend some of the dirt roads around Bodie. Turns out that spring the state had bought private land on the backside of the park. They had signed the fences along the road with no trespassing signs, but had not erected a gate. A park ranger wrote me up for illegally riding my motorcycle in the park. Being a $2000 fine My friend and I went to court to fight it. Judge threw it out, the state had failed to properly mark the road as being closed. This is how I learned the legal definition of a closed road out west. As for the Forest Service gating a road, the reason for the gate can only be found by accessing that Forest's Transportation Plan - a USFS Transportation Plan describes the Forest's long term policy for managing its roads. The gate is there because the USFS does not want to retire the road, they want to regulate when or why the road is used. If you stumble onto a Ranger and ask they will explain the why. Being we are in an age where we need to fight to keep public lands open to public use, if you are busting past the gastes you are part of the problem and not the solution. Most folks know about the Rubicon. What most folks don't know about is that the Pirates of the Rubicon, the club that adopted the trail, have a sure fire way of keeping out the riff raff. You break the rules they break your jeep. These guys have been beating back an endless stream of green law suites to keep that trail open and they won't abide anyone that can't play by the rules. Pat G'ville, NV

[Jud Jones]

I have no problem with designating wilderness are when there is good reason to do so, but to my mind, land that has been ranched is not wilderness, and ought to be open to multiple uses.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Eric L. Green" wrote: > On Wed, 18 May 2005, klr6501995 wrote: > > If there are no signs saying posted/no tresspasing or any thing > > forbidding my entry I will pass through. If there is a lock and > > chain I do not pass. regardless of sign. If there is chain and the > > lock is open I will pass through, hoping I don't get locked in. > ... > > I have never heard a convincing view on why federal and state dirt > > roads can be locked and gated when it is obviouse the roads are > > grated once a year or so. We want to ride the roads, not through the > > sticks on a klr. I say if stupid people get stuck , well, they got > > stuck. I been stuck. Got myself out ,by myself; eventually.Mud sucks. > > In some cases, the roads led to former ranches and the former ranch has > now been added to a federal Wilderness area and thus mechanical vehicles > of any kind are not allowed, not even bicycles (except for Feds, of > course). As a backpacker, I appreciate the Wilderness areas because I > don't get spewed with dirt by motorcyclists and 4x4's. As a motorcyclist, > I appreciate the non-Wilderness areas because I can cover a lot of ground > with my KLR and haul a lot of goodies with me while doing so, and get to > some really cool entry points into the Wilderness areas where I can hop > off my KLR and go hiking. > > There's enough land for both me the backpacker and me the motorcyclist as > long as we don't do things that tick people off and get them to extend > motorized vbehicle bans to larger areas. Going onto roads that are > obviously closed is one of those things that will tick people off and > extend motorized vehicle bans to larger areas, so I don't do it. > > -E

[scott quillen]

In my opinion...if the land is privately owned it should be ENTIRELY up to the owner whether or not to allow others to use it. I know if I owned a "ranch" and posted it "NO TRESPASSING", I pity the fool who would challenge me by just taking it upon themselves to enjoy my land without first asking. When THEY start paying taxes on my property, then THEY can decide its use. I'm sure I'm not alone in this sentiment... Scott Jud Jones wrote: I have no problem with designating wilderness are when there is good reason to do so, but to my mind, land that has been ranched is not wilderness, and ought to be open to multiple uses.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Eric L. Green" wrote: > On Wed, 18 May 2005, klr6501995 wrote: > > If there are no signs saying posted/no tresspasing or any thing > > forbidding my entry I will pass through. If there is a lock and > > chain I do not pass. regardless of sign. If there is chain and the > > lock is open I will pass through, hoping I don't get locked in. > ... > > I have never heard a convincing view on why federal and state dirt > > roads can be locked and gated when it is obviouse the roads are > > grated once a year or so. We want to ride the roads, not through the > > sticks on a klr. I say if stupid people get stuck , well, they got > > stuck. I been stuck. Got myself out ,by myself; eventually.Mud sucks. > > In some cases, the roads led to former ranches and the former ranch has > now been added to a federal Wilderness area and thus mechanical vehicles > of any kind are not allowed, not even bicycles (except for Feds, of > course). As a backpacker, I appreciate the Wilderness areas because I > don't get spewed with dirt by motorcyclists and 4x4's. As a motorcyclist, > I appreciate the non-Wilderness areas because I can cover a lot of ground > with my KLR and haul a lot of goodies with me while doing so, and get to > some really cool entry points into the Wilderness areas where I can hop > off my KLR and go hiking. > > There's enough land for both me the backpacker and me the motorcyclist as > long as we don't do things that tick people off and get them to extend > motorized vbehicle bans to larger areas. Going onto roads that are > obviously closed is one of those things that will tick people off and > extend motorized vehicle bans to larger areas, so I don't do it. > > -E Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Yahoo! Groups Links __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]