travel on old bikes

[gpokluda]

Most of the industry rags like "Dealer News" and "MPN" agree that the V- Twin market has flattened somewhat for both H-D and the Metrics. However the "custom chopper" market hit the afterburners this year sales soaring beyond what most expected. This thanks to shows like OC Choppers. Speculation is that this high dollar customs have take a bigger bite out of the high end crusier market but no one really knows for sure. All I know is that I hope the Chopper Era passes quickly and we move on to something else. Gino www.rvmc.com --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Tengai Mark Van Horn wrote:

> At 5:41 AM -0700 4/28/05, scott quillen wrote: > >As for the resale value dropping, I agree - I think > >it's due to a combination of the current "economic > >slump" (if you will) and the fact that Harley's supply > >is finally starting to catch up with the demand >

...they just don't like riding period. Thus, flooding the

> market with used bikes. > > Mark

[JRC]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, scott quillen wrote:

> I don't know why I'm wasting my energy with a > response...sounds like you just want to bash Harley > Davidson...

I don't get it either, I have no interest in an HD, never have, but the fact is that they are a very good bike in their class. Most mags consistently rate them well in comparison to other large cruisers/tourers. Granted the AMF and pre-AMF days were not a high point in HD history, but other bikes of the time were pretty primitive - During those days, I rode a Royal Enfield, so I know! Other bike companies would love to have HD's brand equity and loyalty. Each to their own, I suppose. I have one cruiser, one KLR, and like having both. JRC A13 '01 Intruder LC1500

[JRC]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, scott quillen wrote:

> I don't know why I'm wasting my energy with a > response...sounds like you just want to bash Harley > Davidson...

I don't get it either, I have no interest in an HD, never have, but the fact is that they are a very good bike in their class. Most mags consistently rate them well in comparison to other large cruisers/tourers. Granted the AMF and pre-AMF days were not a high point in HD history, but other bikes of the time were pretty primitive - During those days, I rode a Royal Enfield, so I know! Other bike companies would love to have HD's brand equity and loyalty. Each to their own, I suppose. I have one cruiser, one KLR, and like having both. JRC A13 '01 Intruder LC1500

[dirk@bikerider.com]

MCN had a survey of HD owners a year or two ago asking about service, mechanical problems, etc. They pulled a query against the responses from people who had all of the major problems which were reported (cam bearings, steering head, solid wheels, etc.), the people who had all those mechanical problems also answered that they had service department headaches as well as sales department hassles during the purchase and subsequent repairs on their Harleys. When that subset of owners had been identified, they reviewed their answers to the question "Would you buy another Harley?" and found that nearly 90% (over 90%?) answered that, yes, they would buy another Harley Davidson. Wow. I don't bash Harleys, because I don't know that much about them, but I'm not a lover of their equipment either. I only bash the guys who crap on my stuff even though they've never ridden anything but their ROTFL DynaSuperWideBoy. "It's just not a Harley" is NOT an answer to the question of why they hate everything else on two wheels... Dirk (the other one) Chanhassen, MN Quoting JRC :

> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, scott quillen wrote: > > I don't know why I'm wasting my energy with a > > response...sounds like you just want to bash Harley > > Davidson... > > I don't get it either, I have no interest in an HD, never have, but the > fact is that they are a very good bike in their class. Most mags > consistently rate them well in comparison to other large > cruisers/tourers. Granted the AMF and pre-AMF days were not a high > point in HD history, but other bikes of the time were pretty primitive - > During those days, I rode a Royal Enfield, so I know! > Other bike companies would love to have HD's brand equity and loyalty. > > Each to their own, I suppose. I have one cruiser, one KLR, and like > having both. > > JRC > A13 > '01 Intruder LC1500

[Chaz Cooper - Hotmail]

Meant strictly "tongue-in-cheek". There were lots of reasons for quality problems during the AMF years. AMF's management policies and cash flow problems from acquisition binging, drugs in the work place problems, increasing competition from Japanese imports are some of the issues. My Grand dad and his buddies used to call them hardly ablesons (fondly I believe) in the '20's and 30's - certainly pre-dates this discussion list. When I was a kid, and didn't really understand the implications, he told me stories about outrunning cops who were on Ariel Four Squares (he rode a Harley); hill climbs outside CO Springs, CO, etc. One of my buddies raced flat track on a Harley in the '70's. Harleys are what they are in spite of, or because of their current popularity. Lots of history. Hating them is a lot like hating Fords or Chevys. Strictly a waste of time. I've never owned one because they were just heavier than I like, but I've spent many hours on one my brother owned - why buy it if you can borrow it. If you choose, there are a lot of possibilities with Harleys. I've seen a bunch of different models I'd love to own... if I had a gazillion dollars. I'd sure hate to try off roading one. I'm a little gullible though. I bought a new Triumph Trophy 650 (upswept pipes, single carb) in '72. The dealer told me it was a "dirt bike". I believed them, and tried every mountain road and trail in CO I could find. Pretty hard on the bike. Had a great time though!!! It was about that era that the British bikes had their problems too. Their 3 cyl Trident 750 was a pretty cool bike, but was a big flop commercially. Lots of mechanical, electrical problems. I bought two KLRs this winter - a 2001 (407 mi) and a 2003 (~7K mi). The '03 is stone stock. I've taken the '01 apart to do upgrades I've seen on this list. It's been apart more than together. I sure do like them. Chuck

----- Original Message ----- From: scott quillen To: Chaz Cooper - Hotmail ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com ; JRC Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Whats the story with Harley's? NKLR for sure...... I don't know why I'm wasting my energy with a response...sounds like you just want to bash Harley Davidson...I'm cool with that...your opinion of HD isn't going to cause me any sleepless nights, nor is it likely to make those who work for HD start fretting that the masses who are spending their hard-earned-dollar on "hardly ablesons" are gonna hear your opinion and run straight out and buy a KLR. Did you have a bad experience with a particular HD or the owner of one? or do you just like jumping on the "Bash HD" bandwagon? Just curious... Scott --- Chaz Cooper - Hotmail wrote: > Hardly ableson's poor build quality couldn't have > had anything to do with the '60's & 70's "drug > scene". I'm sure it was all AMF's fault.... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JRC > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:11 AM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Whats the story with > Harley's? NKLR for sure...... > > > > > > > AMF couldn't have cared less about the quality > of > > bikes being produced during their ownership. And > it > > showed! > > That may be true. But then again, Harley did not > care about the > quality of their bikes during the same time > period, either. > They have come a long way since then. > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: > www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: > www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: > www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: > www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > DSN_KLR650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jud Jones]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, scott quillen wrote:

> The period of time when Harley was owned by AMF - > American Machine and Foundry

Best known as a manufacturer of bowling balls and badminton racquets.

> --- Joseph Jones wrote: > > > > > What is the "AMF" years?

[ron criswell]

I had an AMC product in it's final days. Worse piece of machinery I ever owned. It took a long time before I would buy American again after that. It was the only car I ever considered running off a cliff (seriously). Criswell

On Thursday, April 28, 2005, at 12:57 PM, Chaz Cooper - Hotmail wrote: > ..and tennis rackets, snow skis, etc., etc., etc. Just about every > kind of recreational equipment line they could acquire. > > Jeep was owned by AMC (previously Rambler). I'm still amazed that > Chrysler was able to pull Jeep out of the toilet. They were horrible > products in the final days of AMC ownership. The last two or three > years the only way to ID brake components (shoes, master cyls), > u-joints, rear axle bearings, was to take it apart and match it. They > were buying parts in small bunches from whoever they could get them. > Overhead cam six, RCA electronics in the Wagoneers... what a piece of > underpowered sh**. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: matteeanne@... > To: scott quillen ; Joseph Jones ; DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 10:23 AM > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Whats the story with Harley's? NKLR > for sure...... > > > And to those of us old enough to know, AMF was a > Bowling Pin manufacturer. They splattered every Harley > with the AMF Logo, (Jeep's too right?) Those were sad > days for AMerica, a time when people drove Pinto's and > Vega's for about 20k before they seized, and the > Grenada was a serious attempt at beating Merecedes. > Were still paying the price for that crappy > manufacturing in the world market, and as long as the > Unions have there way, we always will.. > --- scott quillen wrote: > >> The period of time when Harley was owned by AMF - >> American Machine and Foundry >> >> "AMF could also stand for American Machine and >> Foundry >> which is a well known company that once owned >> Harley-Davidson from 1969-1981" >> >> AMF couldn't have cared less about the quality of >> bikes being produced during their ownership. And it >> showed! >> >> Scott >> >> --- Joseph Jones wrote: >> >>> >>> What is the "AMF" years? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Lefebvre" >>> wrote: >>>> I had a Harley during the AMF years - cured me >> for >>> life. >>>> >>>> I have noticed that resale prices are starting >> to >>> drop. I see a >>>> consistent pattern in the Green Bay Press >> Gazette >>> where of the 4 >>> columns >>>> of bikes for sale, 3+ columns are Harleys. >>>> >>>> >>>> Rob >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >>> [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] On >>>> Behalf Of Ron Criswell >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:24 AM >>>> To: scottq60 >>>> Cc: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com >>>> Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Whats the story >> with >>> Harley's? NKLR >>> for >>>> sure...... >>>> >>>> I believe today's Harley's are pretty good >>> mechanically. Most have >>> just >>>> too much metal for my taste other than the new >>> Sportsters have some >>>> appeal to me. Always wanted a Sportster since a >>> kid. Those were the >>> hot >>>> ones to have back then. Ironic today they are >>> considered to be the >>> dog >>>> in Harley's lineup by today's Hog riders. I >> still >>> think they are >>> the >>>> best looking ones Harley builds. And they don't >>> shake like a paint >>>> shaker anymore. That said, I can still buy 2 - 4 >>> KLR's for the >>> price of >>>> one Harley and ride it a long time. And I don't >>> really have to >>> shine >>>> mine up. dirt looks good on a KLR. I have 35,000 >>> miles on my '99 >>> and it >>>> is running fine. Not bad for a cheap single. >>>> Harley's do have great resale value but as I >>> usually ride what I >>> have >>>> into the ground, this is not a big deal for me. >> If >>> they made a >>>> Sportster that looked like their flat track >>> racers, had more power, >>> and >>>> sold for a reasonable price like 7 grand, I'd >> buy >>> one. >>>> >>>> Criswell >>>> On Sunday, April 24, 2005, at 11:25 AM, scottq60 >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> As I've stated previously (off-line)...Harley >>> doesn't need anyone >>> to >>>>> defend them...they have their fans and their >>> critics - I'm sure >>>>> they're not losing any sleep at night. >>>>> >>>>> Personally, I really enjoy my 94 FXSTC >> (Softail >>> Custom)... >>>>> >>>>> Many folks think that Harleys still leave oil >>> slicks when parked >>> for >>>>> very long, and that they can't be reliable. >>> Actually, my >>> wife's '00 >>>>> 883 Sportster DID leak oil from the base >> rocker >>> box gaskets - >>> once I >>>>> had James gaskets installed - no more leaks. >> My >>> 94 has been >>>>> exceptionally reliable in the 3 years I've >> owned >>> it. I've put 5k >>>>> miles on it without any notable problems. >>>>> >>>>> All motorcycles will require maintenance from >>> time to time. >>>>> >>>>> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Eric L. >>> Green" >>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> On Sun, 24 Apr 2005, Andrus Chesley wrote: >>>>>>> I had and built several harley's before it >> was >>> cool to own on. >>>>> Only >>>>>>> regret is not having them now to sell at >>> today's prices. >>>>>> >>>>>> I still say that a Harley is one of the most >>> beautiful pieces of >>>>>> performance art on the road. It's not a great >>> bike, but it is >>> what >>>>> it is >>>>>> and if I had a million jillion dollars I >>> wouldn't mind having a >>> few >>>>> major >>>>>> examples to prop a leg over from time to time >>> to enjoy. >>>>>> >>>>>>> But, A bike is a bike is a bike. Ride what >> you >>> want to ride and >>>>> what >>>>>>> fits you. But NEVER cut down another >> person's >>> ride. Actually , >>> the >>>>>>> worst bike I ever had was a '69 Norton >>> Commando. Gear box spit a >>>>>>> tooth thru the bottom , main frame and down >>> tubes broke and >>>>> cracked. >>>>>>> LOL Guess jumping levees in the rice fields >>> didn't help that. >>> But >>>>>> >>>>>> Heh! And some people wonder why the British >>> bike makers couldn't >>>>> compete >>>>>> with the Japs?! I had an early 70's Honda >>> (maybe '71 or so) that >>>>> someone >>>>>> had stripped all the lights off of to make >> into >>> a dirt bike (this >>>>> was back >>>>>> in the day of the UJB when all you did was >>> change tires and >>> remove >>>>> stuff >>>>>> to make a bike into a dirt bike). My brother >>> and I launched this >>>>> thing >>>>>> from levees all over North Louisiana and the >>> only thing that >>>>> eventually >>>>>> happened was that after a couple of years it >>> dropped a valve and >>>>> the >> > === message truncated === > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

[Jud Jones]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, wrote:

> And to those of us old enough to know, AMF was a > Bowling Pin manufacturer. They splattered every Harley > with the AMF Logo, (Jeep's too right?) Those were sad > days for AMerica, a time when people drove Pinto's and > Vega's for about 20k before they seized, and the > Grenada was a serious attempt at beating Merecedes. > Were still paying the price for that crappy > manufacturing in the world market, ***and as long as the > Unions have there way, we always will.***

Just wanted to call your attention to the gratuitous right-wing b*llsh*t. Unions didn't design the Granada, which was just a cheesy Benz lookalike. This kind of comment reminds me of John Stuart Mill: "Although not all conservatives are stupid, it is certainly true that most stupid people are conservative."

[Jud Jones]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "gpokluda" wrote:

> Most of the industry rags like "Dealer News" and "MPN" agree that the V- > Twin market has flattened somewhat for both H-D and the Metrics. > However the "custom chopper" market hit the afterburners this year > sales soaring beyond what most expected. This thanks to shows like OC > Choppers. Speculation is that this high dollar customs have take a > bigger bite out of the high end crusier market but no one really knows > for sure. All I know is that I hope the Chopper Era passes quickly and > we move on to something else. >

Gee, I have always had a soft spot for a tastefully done chopper, nice knucklehead bobber maybe, not that garish crap they build at OCC. Other than that, when I hear "Harley" my eyes glaze over.

[Jud Jones]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "gpokluda" wrote:

> Most of the industry rags like "Dealer News" and "MPN" agree that the V- > Twin market has flattened somewhat for both H-D and the Metrics. > However the "custom chopper" market hit the afterburners this year > sales soaring beyond what most expected. This thanks to shows like OC > Choppers. Speculation is that this high dollar customs have take a > bigger bite out of the high end crusier market but no one really knows > for sure. All I know is that I hope the Chopper Era passes quickly and > we move on to something else. >

Gee, I have always had a soft spot for a tastefully done chopper, nice knucklehead bobber maybe, but not that garish crap they build at OCC. Other than that, when I hear "Harley" my eyes glaze over.