dunlop vs. metzeler

[Jake Szufnarowski]

How does standing on the pegs lower your center of gravity? It seems to me that it would heighten it, though I am far from a physicist... Jake A18 nyc

> > -Some of the guys covered it, but I'll repeat: STAND ON THE PEGS in the > dirt. > That lowers your c of g about a foot and a half and removes some of the > top- > heavy. Have a relaxed grip so the bike can 'move' when it needs to. And > WEAR your protective gear! Have fun. > Ed

--Jake Szufnarowski

[el_macho650]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Jake Szufnarowski wrote:

> How does standing on the pegs lower your center of gravity? It

seems to

> me that it would heighten it, though I am far from a physicist... >

You are correct in principal. But in practice, standing on the pegs puts your weight onto the pegs instead of the seat, dropping the BIKE's center of gravity about a foot and a half. Also, when you're standing up, you can use body english to control the bike (sometimes unconsciously), and the bike can move around a lot to "conform" to the terrain. Your knees and arms also work as a secondary suspension, so for brief moments the bike doesn't have to deal with your full weight Devon

[kdxkawboy@aol.com]

In a message dated 2004-12-16 7:08:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, bigfatgreenbike@... writes:

> > You are correct in principal. But in practice, standing on the pegs > puts your weight onto the pegs instead of the seat, dropping the > BIKE's center of gravity about a foot and a half. > > Also, when you're standing up, you can use body english to control the > bike (sometimes unconsciously), and the bike can move around a lot to > "conform" to the terrain. Your knees and arms also work as a secondary > suspension, so for brief moments the bike doesn't have to deal with > your full weight > > Devon > >

Once up on the pegs, while it raises your body's center of gravity, your weight is sitting lower on the bike. By standing, you've turned your body into a lever that lets you do wondrous things with your higher center of gravity through your body english. And, as Devon also points out, the joints in your body work like suspension to keep your center of gravity on a smooth trajectory so the bike doesn't have to work as hard. The alternative is sitting, meaning the rear of the bike is constantly launching you into the air and as you slam back down on the seat the suspension will bottom and the bike will wallow. This is why you cannot go fast and sit down in the gnarly dirt. This is why you stand in the dirt and why real dirt bike seats are not designed to sit on. This is why real dirt bikes are as narrow as a rail, all the better to grip with your legs while standing on the pegs so your back and hip muscles can pull your weight off the handle bars getting all on the foot pegs. And this is why, while I love my flat Corbin for most every thing else, I've kept the stock seat for serious dirt riding. Pat [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[John Kokola]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ... --John Kokola

> -----Original Message----- > From: Jake Szufnarowski [mailto:jake@...] > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 9:29 PM > To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com; DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: standing on pegs in dirt > > > > How does standing on the pegs lower your center of gravity? It seems to > me that it would heighten it, though I am far from a physicist... > > Jake > A18 nyc > > > > -Some of the guys covered it, but I'll repeat: STAND ON THE PEGS in the > > dirt. > > That lowers your c of g about a foot and a half and removes some of the > > top- > > heavy. Have a relaxed grip so the bike can 'move' when it needs to. And > > WEAR your protective gear! Have fun. > > Ed > > --Jake Szufnarowski > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

[dooden]

Pegs are lower than the seat. Plus it makes tossing the beat around easier. Dooden A15 Green Ape Just hope it does not restart the countersteer thread again, that was worse than the election thread.

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Jake Szufnarowski wrote: > How does standing on the pegs lower your center of gravity? It seems to > me that it would heighten it, though I am far from a physicist... > > Jake > A18 nyc > > > > -Some of the guys covered it, but I'll repeat: STAND ON THE PEGS in the > > dirt. > > That lowers your c of g about a foot and a half and removes some of the > > top- > > heavy. Have a relaxed grip so the bike can 'move' when it needs to. And > > WEAR your protective gear! Have fun. > > Ed > > --Jake Szufnarowski

[dooden]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Dooden" wrote:

> > Pegs are lower than the seat. > > Plus it makes tossing the around easier. > > Dooden > A15 Green Ape > > Just hope it does not restart the countersteer thread again, that was > worse than the election thread. > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Jake Szufnarowski wrote: > > How does standing on the pegs lower your center of gravity? It > seems to > > me that it would heighten it, though I am far from a physicist... > > > > Jake > > A18 nyc > > > > > > -Some of the guys covered it, but I'll repeat: STAND ON THE PEGS > in the > > > dirt. > > > That lowers your c of g about a foot and a half and removes some > of the > > > top- > > > heavy. Have a relaxed grip so the bike can 'move' when it needs > to. And > > > WEAR your protective gear! Have fun. > > > Ed > > > > --Jake Szufnarowski

[Stuart Mumford]

Imagine this: You have a 200 pound weight on the seat of your KLR. Now remove that, split in half, and put a 100 pound weight on each of your footpegs. While the total weight is the same, the load is carried lower on the bike. Now do this: get a piece of paper and draw a circle on it about the size of a quarter. Draw an upside down "Y" directly below the circle, with the stem ending at the circle. Now, about half way down the stem, draw a horizontal line about an inch long. Look! You made a person! Thanks CA Stu

> -----Original Message----- > Pegs are lower than the seat. > > Plus it makes tossing the beat around easier. > > Dooden > A15 Green Ape > > Just hope it does not restart the countersteer thread again, that was > worse than the election thread. > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Jake Szufnarowski wrote: > > How does standing on the pegs lower your center of gravity? It > seems to > > me that it would heighten it, though I am far from a physicist... > > > > Jake > > A18 nyc > > > > > > -Some of the guys covered it, but I'll repeat: STAND ON THE PEGS > in the > > > dirt. > > > That lowers your c of g about a foot and a half and removes some > of the > > > top- > > > heavy. Have a relaxed grip so the bike can 'move' when it needs > to. And > > > WEAR your protective gear! Have fun. > > > Ed > > > > --Jake Szufnarowski > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:36:13 -0000 > From: "Dooden" > Subject: Re: standing on pegs in dirt > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Dooden" wrote: > > > > Pegs are lower than the seat. > > > > Plus it makes tossing the around easier. > > > > Dooden > > A15 Green Ape > > > > Just hope it does not restart the countersteer thread again, that was > > worse than the election thread. > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Jake Szufnarowski wrote: > > > How does standing on the pegs lower your center of gravity? It > > seems to > > > me that it would heighten it, though I am far from a physicist... > > > > > > Jake > > > A18 nyc > > > > > > > > -Some of the guys covered it, but I'll repeat: STAND ON THE PEGS > > in the > > > > dirt. > > > > That lowers your c of g about a foot and a half and removes some > > of the > > > > top- > > > > heavy. Have a relaxed grip so the bike can 'move' when it needs > > to. And > > > > WEAR your protective gear! Have fun. > > > > Ed > > > > > > --Jake Szufnarowski > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:18:00 -0000 > From: "Conall" > Subject: Re: Tire mounting help. > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Randall Marbach > wrote: > > Hi All > > > > I am in the middle of mounting a new d606 rear on my > > A17. There is a mark/spot on the side of the tire. > > > > What does this mark mean? > > > > Does the valve stem go next to this mark or 180% from > > this mark. > > > > TIA > > > > Randy from Burbank > > Randy, > > Have a quick look at > http://www.angelfire.com/co/klr650/rearaxle1.html > > for a pictorial on tips to getting the rear azle and brakes set up. > Thanks, > > Conall > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:27:13 -0000 > From: "Conall" > Subject: Re: WD-40 as chain lube > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Saltzer" > wrote: > > > The company's website says that the stuff was created in 1953 when > a > > small company with 3 employees set out to create a line of rust- > > prevention solvants and degreasers for use in the aerospace > > industry. It was on the 40th try that they found the Water > > Displacement formula and hence the name WD-40. Then they used the > > stuff all over the Atlas missle to protect it from rust and > > corrosion. Did you know all that? I didn't. > > MrMoose > > A8 (Barbie and Ken special) > > In Mexico, WD-50 is available, took them 50 tries to get the formula. > Different company. :^) > > Conall > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 08:42:19 -0500 > From: "Streetfighters" > Subject: Help Barnicle Bill help Christopher Powers - Merry Christmas! > > Friends- > > Below is a request that went out on one of the motorcycle internet lists > that I'm on. Barnacle Bill is a trusted member of the motorcycle > community > (http://www.racingleather.com) and this is no scam. It just seemed like a > good cause, especially at this time of year, and I wanted to assist in > spreading the request for help beyond reach of our little enthusiast's > world. > > To visit the forum where he originally posted it; > http://makeashorterlink.com/?A29412C0A > > He's asking for $5 per person, but give as much as you can!!! > > Here are the details, directly from Barnacle Bill: > > "Christopher is a little 12-year old boy that lives at the end of my road. > He was born with a hole in his heart and underwent 4 major > surgeries when he > was just weeks old. During one of the surgeries he had a disabling stroke. > He can walk but he can't run. He can't talk but he can sign language. His > right arm is only 10% as his right leg. He loves Nascar racing. > > He has 3 younger brothers that love him dearly and help him all they can. > Christopher's parents are in their late 20's. His father works 2 jobs and > his mother is a teacher's aid at the local school. They are > active in their > church youth groups and his father is working to become a minister. > > Christopher now had a rare blood disorder. They removed his > spleen last year > but they just can't find out what is wrong. His white blood cell count is > so low and his immune system so impaired he can no longer go to school. > > Needless to say all this has wrecked havoc on the families > finances. I can't > watch this young father carrying his son in his arms or the care > the rest of > the family shows for him without a tear coming into my eye. I > just found out > this morning that they had to let their car go back when the lease was up. > They are using a loaner from her parents. > > I want and need to do something for them. I want the WERA family > to help me. > I could just make a donation but I can take that same money and buy > materials for a new custom suit. Help me do this for Christopher and his > family. Every single penny of your 5-dollar donation will go to this > family. I think enough of you know me to know this is true. I would think > just send in your donation along with your name and address and > phone number > which will go into a general drawing and Darethea can pick the > recipient of > the new suit right after the first of the year and then the details can be > worked out then. It just feels like the right thing to do. I would really > like to have a least a 1000 people donate and get into the pool. Input is > appreciated. I plan to do something even if this is a no go. Tell me what > you think. Emails and phone calls are appreciated. I AM BARNACLE BILL my > email is barnacle@... my phone number is 859-336-7375. Thank you all > for your time. As always, the best to all- > > Barnacle Bill and Darethea" > > Donations can be sent to: > > Barnacle Bills Racing Leathers > 1106 Logan Rd > Springfield, KY 40069 > > or...for Paypal...you may put attention "for Christopher Powers " > > Dave Arkle a.k.a. (diet)DrThunder is local and has offered to > handle Paypal > donations for Bill. E-mail address for Paypal is > mag_fanatic@... (don't miss the "_" between "mag" and > "fanatic". Just copy/paste the address.) > -------------------------------------------- > > Now you many of you might not need a new leather motorcycle > racing suit. So > if you win it, we already have volunteers to either auction it > off or use a > raffle to raise even more money for this family!!! > > Thanks for your help and Merry Christmas!!! And spread the > word!!! Forward > this on to as many as you can!!!!! > > Geoff- > www.oldrice.com > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:16:56 EST > From: kdxkawboy@... > Subject: Re: Re: standing on pegs in dirt - do it in odd surfaces > > In a message dated 2004-12-16 10:07:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, > lasvegasrider@... writes: > > > > > COG issue - standing up raises it, however, it creates a > fulcrum point of > > the weight references - trust us - standing up is a good thing in many > > surface environs. > > > > > > To get the picture it might help to keep in mind that their are > to physically > different COGs, the bike's and your's. Your going straight down the road, > sitting on the seat and ride no hands. Your weight is adding say > 200 pounds to > the weight of the bike at the height of the seat, raising the > bike's center of > gravity. Do the same stunt, but standing up on the pegs. Your COG > is higher but > you are adding 200 pounds to bike at the height of the footpegs, > lowering the > center of gravity. This happens because it's not where your COG > is but where > your weight rides on the bike. > > By raising your COG you increase the effectiveness of your body english, > which is using your body as a lever and the further out on the > lever that you can > put the weight the greater the force. Because you are on the > pegs, apply these > forces to a point on the bike you are like the guy riding a > bicycle on a high > wire holding onto to a long bar with a couple of weights at each end that > hang lower than the bike as far as your balance goes. > > P@ > G'ville, Nv > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:52:59 -0500 > From: "John Kokola" > Subject: RE: WD-40 as chain lube > > That describes my CBR1000F. Been using WD-40, and occasionally 75W90 gear > oil as well. 25k out of a DID X-ring so far. Haven't had to adjust it in > several thousand miles, it's got no 'sticky links,' and it's a > clean chain. > > --John Kokola > FWIW > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Keith Saltzer [mailto:k.saltzer@...] > > > > 4. These same guys were telling countless stories about how "the most > > miles they ever got out of a chain" were while they were only using > > WD-40. These milage figures were usually in the 15,000-30,000 mile > > range. Some of them higher. A lot of the bikes were high horsepower > > bikes as well. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:18:35 -0000 > From: "Rodney Copeland" > Subject: Re: WD-40 as chain lube > > > I tried the WD40 regement for the first 10,000 miles on my new KLR. > I noticed very loose rollers and went to some lubes that left me with > ungodly messes on the back of my head. > I did manage to get 20,000 out of my chain and rear sprocket. > I noticed a few rollers missin shortly after. > I'll update with the results of a new Xring and both sprockets. > I'll try wax for this round. > Pretty sure if you feel the chain after a ride to get a temperature > readin, you'll see that WD40 ain't workin for lubin your chain. > Anyone thinkin about no lube, will quickly see the gauling takin place > on the rollers and know they are destroying their chain and sprockets. > Rod > > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Saltzer" wrote: > > > > I just spent the better part of the last 8 hours searching online for > > anything I could find having to do with cleaning/oiling/lubing O-ring > > and X-ring chains. > > > > I read A LOT of stuff. I even got onto WD-40's website for a while. > > > > While reading, I kept finding the same things over and over and over > > and over again, like: > > > > 1. Guys using sticky name brand spray lubes had gunk collect all over > > their chains, bikes, tires, and sometimes clothes. > > > > 2. These same guys hated the mess it made putting it on, hated > > cleaning the mess up, hated how many steps they went through and how > > much time they spent to go through the process of their chain > > maintanence. > > > > 3. LOTS of guys were using WD-40 only to clean/lube their chains with > > no mess, in one step, and they loved it. > > > > 4. These same guys were telling countless stories about how "the most > > miles they ever got out of a chain" were while they were only using > > WD-40. These milage figures were usually in the 15,000-30,000 mile > > range. Some of them higher. A lot of the bikes were high horsepower > > bikes as well. > > > > I was actually pretty surprised at how the guys using only WD-40 > > raved about it. I did read a lot of guys saying stuff like, "WD-40 > > will eat your rings", and "WD-40 is not a good enough lube" and on > > and on. But you know what? Not once did I read about a guys chain > > having problems that was only treated with WD-40. Not one ring > > missing, not one problem with rust, not one story about having to > > adjust the chain more often. In fact, they said that they adjusted > > them less. I never read a rave review about someone using sticky > > stuff, or wax, or any other name brand product. Some guys used gear > > oil with good results, but it was still messy. Lots of mechanics > > recommended WD-40 to other riders, and some mechanics even mentioned > > that the chains that they saw that were the cleanest, least abused > > best looking chains on their customers bikes were only treated with > > WD-40. > > > > The company's website says that the stuff was created in 1953 when a > > small company with 3 employees set out to create a line of rust- > > prevention solvants and degreasers for use in the aerospace > > industry. It was on the 40th try that they found the Water > > Displacement formula and hence the name WD-40. Then they used the > > stuff all over the Atlas missle to protect it from rust and > > corrosion. Did you know all that? I didn't. > > > > I am one of these guys that has used non O-ring chains on the KLR to > > get more HP to the ground, with a lot of extra work. I lubed it with > > sticky stuff for a while, then moved on to just gear oil. Then moved > > on to a cheap O-ring chain that was better, but not by much at all. > > I was still lubing with gear oil. It worked ok, but was still messy > > and still collected stuff on the chain. Off road was the worst of > > course. Then I went to a really good DID X-ring chain (online I > > found a bunch of raves about it too) and am now only using WD-40 on > > it to clean it after riding in the dirt, and I will use it to clean > > the chain when it needs it. But that is turning out to be not that > > often. I said in earlier posts that I am not lubing my chain at all, > > except when I cleaned it with the WD-40, but I guess that is not > > quite correct. As I read tonight that although WD-40 is considered > > to be a "light" lubricant, it is still a lubricant. I read that it's > > lubricant will stick well to the chain, and still in fact be there > > for some time, even though the chain seems to be "dry". So far, I'm > > really liking what I'm experiencing with the stuff. > > > > MrMoose > > A8 (Barbie and Ken special) > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:35:12 -0500 > From: "John Kokola" > Subject: RE: Help Barnicle Bill help Christopher Powers - Merry Christmas! > > Bill is good peeps. I've donated. FWIW. > > --John Kokola > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Streetfighters [mailto:Streetfighters@...] > > > > Below is a request that went out on one of the motorcycle internet lists > > that I'm on. Barnacle Bill is a trusted member of the motorcycle > > community > > (http://www.racingleather.com) and this is no scam. It just > seemed like a > > good cause, especially at this time of year, and I wanted to assist in > > spreading the request for help beyond reach of our little enthusiast's > > world. > > > > To visit the forum where he originally posted it; > > http://makeashorterlink.com/?A29412C0A > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 13 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:00:16 -0800 > From: Don Van Dyke > Subject: Re: WD-40 as chain lube > > Keith, on the average, about how often, in miles, do you apply WD-40 to > your drive chain? Do you ride regularly in the rain? > > I suspect it is true that WD-40 does, at least to some degree, > deteriorate > the rubber X or O rings, as chain manufacturers and motorcycle magazines > state. But kerosene, which DID recommends for cleaning chains, is not > completely harmless to rubber either. > > I have long wondered if perhaps the other forces that wear out > chains might > not cause a chain to fail before the X or O rings wear out from > the solvent > in WD-40. Keith's Web search seems to indicate this might be so. > > But does WD-40 need to be applied more frequently than regular chain lube > to keep a chain lubricated? Will a chain used only on the street do well > with WD-40 if it is lubricated at 500 mile intervals? > > Don Van Dyke > Sacramento, California > Moto@... > > At 11:09 AM 12/17/2004 +0000, Keith Saltzer wrote: > > > >I just spent the better part of the last 8 hours searching online for > >anything I could find having to do with cleaning/oiling/lubing O-ring > >and X-ring chains. > > > >I read A LOT of stuff. I even got onto WD-40's website for a while. > > > >While reading, I kept finding the same things over and over and over > >and over again, like: > > > >1. Guys using sticky name brand spray lubes had gunk collect all over > >their chains, bikes, tires, and sometimes clothes. > > > >2. These same guys hated the mess it made putting it on, hated > >cleaning the mess up, hated how many steps they went through and how > >much time they spent to go through the process of their chain > >maintanence. > > > >3. LOTS of guys were using WD-40 only to clean/lube their chains with > >no mess, in one step, and they loved it. > > > >4. These same guys were telling countless stories about how "the most > >miles they ever got out of a chain" were while they were only using > >WD-40. These milage figures were usually in the 15,000-30,000 mile > >range. Some of them higher. A lot of the bikes were high horsepower > >bikes as well. > > > >I was actually pretty surprised at how the guys using only WD-40 > >raved about it. I did read a lot of guys saying stuff like, "WD-40 > >will eat your rings", and "WD-40 is not a good enough lube" and on > >and on. But you know what? Not once did I read about a guys chain > >having problems that was only treated with WD-40. Not one ring > >missing, not one problem with rust, not one story about having to > >adjust the chain more often. In fact, they said that they adjusted > >them less. I never read a rave review about someone using sticky > >stuff, or wax, or any other name brand product. Some guys used gear > >oil with good results, but it was still messy. Lots of mechanics > >recommended WD-40 to other riders, and some mechanics even mentioned > >that the chains that they saw that were the cleanest, least abused > >best looking chains on their customers bikes were only treated with > >WD-40. > > > >The company's website says that the stuff was created in 1953 when a > >small company with 3 employees set out to create a line of rust- > >prevention solvants and degreasers for use in the aerospace > >industry. It was on the 40th try that they found the Water > >Displacement formula and hence the name WD-40. Then they used the > >stuff all over the Atlas missle to protect it from rust and > >corrosion. Did you know all that? I didn't. > > > >I am one of these guys that has used non O-ring chains on the KLR to > >get more HP to the ground, with a lot of extra work. I lubed it with > >sticky stuff for a while, then moved on to just gear oil. Then moved > >on to a cheap O-ring chain that was better, but not by much at all. > >I was still lubing with gear oil. It worked ok, but was still messy > >and still collected stuff on the chain. Off road was the worst of > >course. Then I went to a really good DID X-ring chain (online I > >found a bunch of raves about it too) and am now only using WD-40 on > >it to clean it after riding in the dirt, and I will use it to clean > >the chain when it needs it. But that is turning out to be not that > >often. I said in earlier posts that I am not lubing my chain at all, > >except when I cleaned it with the WD-40, but I guess that is not > >quite correct. As I read tonight that although WD-40 is considered > >to be a "light" lubricant, it is still a lubricant. I read that it's > >lubricant will stick well to the chain, and still in fact be there > >for some time, even though the chain seems to be "dry". So far, I'm > >really liking what I'm experiencing with the stuff. > > > >MrMoose > >A8 (Barbie and Ken special) > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 14 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:55:57 -0000 > From: "Randy Shultz" > Subject: Re: Dual Star lock nut kits > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Norberto Reyes" > wrote: > > Anyone purchased these lock nut kits from Dual Star? They call them > Fuji > > lock or some such. > > > > a. locking axle nuts > > b. motor mount > > c. subframe mount upgrade kit > > d. chain adjuster nut > > > > Is there anything magical about these that would justify the > outrageous > > prices? Are they the same ones we can buy at Lowe's or Home Depot > for a > > small fraction of the cost? > ----- > > I bought the axle and chain adjuster nuts from Dual Star. I use the > chain adjuster nuts but I never installed the axle nuts. > > The reason I didn't use the axle nuts is because the metal tabs > looked like they would be hard on the axle threads to me. That's > probably not the case but I'm not an experienced mechanic. I use the > stock axle nuts and replaced the cotter pin with an R clip or hitch > pin or whatever you call those things. Easy to remove and install, > once the holes are lined up, and re-usable. > > Like I said I use the chain adjuster nuts and they're great. I don't > have a local source for metric specialty fasteners, so I bought the > Dual Stars, but someone on this list turned me onto > metricspecialties.com and perhaps I could have bought them cheaper > through them, I don't know. > > Randy > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 15 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:21:45 -0500 > From: "John Kokola" > Subject: RE: WD-40 as chain lube > > In my experience, WD40 won't last for 500 miles. Particularly if you're > riding in the rain. > > --John Kokola > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Don Van Dyke [mailto:Moto@...] > > > > Will a chain used only on the street do well > > with WD-40 if it is lubricated at 500 mile intervals? > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 16 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 16:26:11 -0000 > From: "klr6501995" > Subject: Re: WD-40 as chain lube > > > O ring chains are supposed to have grease inside the orings. The > pivot point. The point that transfers most of the power. (the pins > don't rotate, the rollers do) > > WD-40 does make a good cleaner and minor lub. > > I started riding in Chey,WY. then shortley later ElPaso TX, then > Wichita Ks and now Jax Fl. > > Mucho sand in the above places. > My shortcuts in Jax Fl. involve dirt roads and my home parking spot > runs me through sand and some rear wheel spin as I push my backyard > gate open with the front wheel. > > Since I joined the list I started using wd-40 as a cleaner and then > 80-90w gear oil as lub. > > I never ever until 3 years ago got 20Kmi + out of chain and sprocket > sets. This inludes 3 c.s sprockets for every rear. > > WD-40 works. period. > > Wax. hmmm what is wax? Do you pour wax into motors ? > I went throught several sets of sp/ch in El Paso using the PJ lubes > sperm whale and all. > > I reckon I got on my high horse this time because in a factory > enviro. that involved fiberglass dust we were lubing with some > graphite lube on the chains. chains and sprockets wore fast(ran 24/7) > I took it upon myself to install a oring chain on the primary drive > (had to adjust start up current) and run a timed burst airline to > blow that chain off of dust. > We never replaced that chain sprocket combo for 1.5 years. vs 3 > months. > > Even in this 21st century, we ain't found a better lube than OIL, > 710 . > > Dirty ? Dude's your riding a klr.Dirty looks cool and no it don't > mess you up on tight left leaners. > > > MY BIGGEST CONCERN HAS BEEN... > Sometimes I think it may be more expensive to buy wd-40 for 20Kmi + > > 3-5 cans. at ~3 dollars... > > JMHO and YMMV. > > oh...and buy my stuff when I advertise. > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Rodney Copeland" > wrote: > > > > I tried the WD40 regement for the first 10,000 miles on my new KLR. > > I noticed very loose rollers and went to some lubes that left me > with > > ungodly messes on the back of my head. > > I did manage to get 20,000 out of my chain and rear sprocket. > > I noticed a few rollers missin shortly after. > > I'll update with the results of a new Xring and both sprockets. > > I'll try wax for this round. > > Pretty sure if you feel the chain after a ride to get a temperature > > readin, you'll see that WD40 ain't workin for lubin your chain. > > Anyone thinkin about no lube, will quickly see the gauling takin > place > > on the rollers and know they are destroying their chain and > sprockets. > > Rod > > > > > > > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Saltzer" > wrote: > > > > > > I just spent the better part of the last 8 hours searching online > for > > > anything I could find having to do with cleaning/oiling/lubing O- > ring > > > and X-ring chains. > > > > > > I read A LOT of stuff. I even got onto WD-40's website for a > while. > > > > > > While reading, I kept finding the same things over and over and > over > > > and over again, like: > > > > > > 1. Guys using sticky name brand spray lubes had gunk collect all > over > > > their chains, bikes, tires, and sometimes clothes. > > > > > > 2. These same guys hated the mess it made putting it on, hated > > > cleaning the mess up, hated how many steps they went through and > how > > > much time they spent to go through the process of their chain > > > maintanence. > > > > > > 3. LOTS of guys were using WD-40 only to clean/lube their chains > with > > > no mess, in one step, and they loved it. > > > > > > 4. These same guys were telling countless stories about how "the > most > > > miles they ever got out of a chain" were while they were only > using > > > WD-40. These milage figures were usually in the 15,000-30,000 > mile > > > range. Some of them higher. A lot of the bikes were high > horsepower > > > bikes as well. > > > > > > I was actually pretty surprised at how the guys using only WD-40 > > > raved about it. I did read a lot of guys saying stuff like, "WD- > 40 > > > will eat your rings", and "WD-40 is not a good enough lube" and > on > > > and on. But you know what? Not once did I read about a guys > chain > > > having problems that was only treated with WD-40. Not one ring > > > missing, not one problem with rust, not one story about having to > > > adjust the chain more often. In fact, they said that they > adjusted > > > them less. I never read a rave review about someone using sticky > > > stuff, or wax, or any other name brand product. Some guys used > gear > > > oil with good results, but it was still messy. Lots of mechanics > > > recommended WD-40 to other riders, and some mechanics even > mentioned > > > that the chains that they saw that were the cleanest, least > abused > > > best looking chains on their customers bikes were only treated > with > > > WD-40. > > > > > > The company's website says that the stuff was created in 1953 > when a > > > small company with 3 employees set out to create a line of rust- > > > prevention solvants and degreasers for use in the aerospace > > > industry. It was on the 40th try that they found the Water > > > Displacement formula and hence the name WD-40. Then they used > the > > > stuff all over the Atlas missle to protect it from rust and > > > corrosion. Did you know all that? I didn't. > > > > > > I am one of these guys that has used non O-ring chains on the KLR > to > > > get more HP to the ground, with a lot of extra work. I lubed it > with > > > sticky stuff for a while, then moved on to just gear oil. Then > moved > > > on to a cheap O-ring chain that was better, but not by much at > all. > > > I was still lubing with gear oil. It worked ok, but was still > messy > > > and still collected stuff on the chain. Off road was the worst > of > > > course. Then I went to a really good DID X-ring chain (online I > > > found a bunch of raves about it too) and am now only using WD-40 > on > > > it to clean it after riding in the dirt, and I will use it to > clean > > > the chain when it needs it. But that is turning out to be not > that > > > often. I said in earlier posts that I am not lubing my chain at > all, > > > except when I cleaned it with the WD-40, but I guess that is not > > > quite correct. As I read tonight that although WD-40 is > considered > > > to be a "light" lubricant, it is still a lubricant. I read that > it's > > > lubricant will stick well to the chain, and still in fact be > there > > > for some time, even though the chain seems to be "dry". So far, > I'm > > > really liking what I'm experiencing with the stuff. > > > > > > MrMoose > > > A8 (Barbie and Ken special) > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 17 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 16:26:43 -0000 > From: "Keith Saltzer" > Subject: Re: WD-40 as chain lube > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Don Van Dyke wrote: > > Keith, on the average, about how often, in miles, do you apply WD- > 40 to > > your drive chain? Do you ride regularly in the rain? > > > Well, in 8000 miles, I've applied WD-40 to the chain after dirt > riding about 5 times, and other than that, I think I hit it with some > more maybe 2 or 3 times. That's it. When Fred put it on for me, he > said that the worst abuse to the chain would be high heat, hard fast > miles, like I was doing while coming back from Pa loaded, and doing > about 75-80 mph indicated. So I hit the Loobman oiler once before I > left Utah and that was it. I do/will ride in the rain but so far > with this chain I have only been in rain once or twice cause I just > don't see any around here most of the year. > > > > I suspect it is true that WD-40 does, at least to some degree, > deteriorate > > the rubber X or O rings, as chain manufacturers and motorcycle > magazines > > state. But kerosene, which DID recommends for cleaning chains, is > not > > completely harmless to rubber either. > > > Every time I read someone saying something about WD-40 wearing out a > chain for one reason or another, it always started with "I think" > or "I suspect" or something to that effect. No proof. Yet I read > countless guys raving about their chains performance while using it. > I also read that 2 different chain manufactures recommended it for > cleaning their chains, although I didn't prove that yet. WD-40 does > recommend it for cleaning/lubing chains. > > > > I have long wondered if perhaps the other forces that wear out > chains might > > not cause a chain to fail before the X or O rings wear out from the > solvent > > in WD-40. Keith's Web search seems to indicate this might be so. > > > > But does WD-40 need to be applied more frequently than regular > chain lube > > to keep a chain lubricated? Will a chain used only on the street > do well > > with WD-40 if it is lubricated at 500 mile intervals? > > Right now, I'm thinking that it doesn't need it that often, but it > really depends on WHERE you ride. I'm a pretty firm believer in the > fact that O-ring chains (and x-w-etc) were created to seal in the > factory placed lube, and that lube is the most critical. Other than > that I believe that the chain does not need a lot of lube for just > the rollers. If adjust properly, the rollers shouldn't be moving on > the sprockets much at all, if any. And a rust/corrosion preventative > is helpful too. WD-40 does both of these things. I also read and > believe that chain adjustment is critical for longevity, as is making > sure your sprockets and chain are in good-great condition to start > with when you put on a new chain and/or sprockets. > > > MrMoose > A8 (Barbie and Ken special) > > > > At 11:09 AM 12/17/2004 +0000, Keith Saltzer wrote: > > > > > > >I just spent the better part of the last 8 hours searching online > for > > >anything I could find having to do with cleaning/oiling/lubing O- > ring > > >and X-ring chains. > > > > > >I read A LOT of stuff. I even got onto WD-40's website for a > while. > > > > > >While reading, I kept finding the same things over and over and > over > > >and over again, like: > > > > > >1. Guys using sticky name brand spray lubes had gunk collect all > over > > >their chains, bikes, tires, and sometimes clothes. > > > > > >2. These same guys hated the mess it made putting it on, hated > > >cleaning the mess up, hated how many steps they went through and > how > > >much time they spent to go through the process of their chain > > >maintanence. > > > > > >3. LOTS of guys were using WD-40 only to clean/lube their chains > with > > >no mess, in one step, and they loved it. > > > > > >4. These same guys were telling countless stories about how "the > most > > >miles they ever got out of a chain" were while they were only using > > >WD-40. These milage figures were usually in the 15,000-30,000 mile > > >range. Some of them higher. A lot of the bikes were high > horsepower > > >bikes as well. > > > > > >I was actually pretty surprised at how the guys using only WD-40 > > >raved about it. I did read a lot of guys saying stuff like, "WD-40 > > >will eat your rings", and "WD-40 is not a good enough lube" and on > > >and on. But you know what? Not once did I read about a guys chain > > >having problems that was only treated with WD-40. Not one ring > > >missing, not one problem with rust, not one story about having to > > >adjust the chain more often. In fact, they said that they adjusted > > >them less. I never read a rave review about someone using sticky > > >stuff, or wax, or any other name brand product. Some guys used > gear > > >oil with good results, but it was still messy. Lots of mechanics > > >recommended WD-40 to other riders, and some mechanics even > mentioned > > >that the chains that they saw that were the cleanest, least abused > > >best looking chains on their customers bikes were only treated with > > >WD-40. > > > > > >The company's website says that the stuff was created in 1953 when > a > > >small company with 3 employees set out to create a line of rust- > > >prevention solvants and degreasers for use in the aerospace > > >industry. It was on the 40th try that they found the Water > > >Displacement formula and hence the name WD-40. Then they used the > > >stuff all over the Atlas missle to protect it from rust and > > >corrosion. Did you know all that? I didn't. > > > > > >I am one of these guys that has used non O-ring chains on the KLR > to > > >get more HP to the ground, with a lot of extra work. I lubed it > with > > >sticky stuff for a while, then moved on to just gear oil. Then > moved > > >on to a cheap O-ring chain that was better, but not by much at all. > > >I was still lubing with gear oil. It worked ok, but was still > messy > > >and still collected stuff on the chain. Off road was the worst of > > >course. Then I went to a really good DID X-ring chain (online I > > >found a bunch of raves about it too) and am now only using WD-40 on > > >it to clean it after riding in the dirt, and I will use it to clean > > >the chain when it needs it. But that is turning out to be not that > > >often. I said in earlier posts that I am not lubing my chain at > all, > > >except when I cleaned it with the WD-40, but I guess that is not > > >quite correct. As I read tonight that although WD-40 is considered > > >to be a "light" lubricant, it is still a lubricant. I read that > it's > > >lubricant will stick well to the chain, and still in fact be there > > >for some time, even though the chain seems to be "dry". So far, > I'm > > >really liking what I'm experiencing with the stuff. > > > > > >MrMoose > > >A8 (Barbie and Ken special) > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 18 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 16:36:44 -0000 > From: "klr6501995" > Subject: Re: WD-40 as chain lube > > > And oil any kind wont. oil FLOATS on water. > There is nothing WRONG with hitting the chain every HALF tank of gas > w/ wd-40 then gear oil from a visine dropper. > If you run with the stickey stuff only sand will stick and grind the > combo's up pretty quick, > > Besides, In my daily travels around town and Jax,Fl to Anderson, S.C > I use the same regiment. > > Squeaky noises in 1st gear are a good inicator that the chain needs > lube. > > In my opinion the folks who have the biggest problems w/ thier bikes > are those who don't ride daily. > > > > > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "John Kokola" > wrote: > > In my experience, WD40 won't last for 500 miles. Particularly if > you're > > riding in the rain. > > > > --John Kokola > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Don Van Dyke [mailto:Moto@i...] > > > > > > Will a chain used only on the street do well > > > with WD-40 if it is lubricated at 500 mile intervals? > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 19 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 16:51:21 -0000 > From: "gpokluda" > Subject: Vendor: Rider Valley Motorcycles > > > Rider Valley Motorcycles is proud to announce its new and improved > website at www.rvmc.com. > > We are also pleased to announce that we will be focusing entirely on > Ural side car motorcycles and the Kymco product line. > > Ural makes the original and ultimate adventure machine, the 2wd > Patrol. > > Kymco produces some of the finest scooters and atvs available. > > Check our site out often for news and deals. > > Thanks > Gino Pokluda > Rider Valley Motorcycles. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 20 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 08:59:59 -0800 (PST) > From: Randall Marbach > Subject: Chain Alignment and Adjustment Help > > Hi All > > > Our tire mounting experience last night looks to be > largely successful except for the following problems: > > No matter how hard I press on the rear brake, the bike > shows no signs of wanting to stop. > > And when I returned to the garage after a brief test > ride, I noticed that the adjuster nuts and plates had > vibrated loose to the point where they almost fell off > the bike, so now I have to realign/adjust the chain. > > Today, I will remove the rear wheel again and make > sure all the spacers are present and in the right > positions. > > > Questions: > > Any idea what I did wrong with my brake? > > Does anybody have a good chain alignment/adjustment > procedure? > > > > BTW I was really impressed with how easy it turned > out to be to remove/replace/balance the stock tires > with the new D606s and Fred's super duty tubes. (We > practiced once on the rear tire of my rat A9 before we > attempted this on my A17, this really helped) The tire > beads seemed to want to break by themselves. The two > tools that seemed to really help were the Yamaha > spray-on tire mounting lube and the MotionPro combo > axle wrench/tire tools. Took us about 3 easy hours to > complete. > > To balance the tires, we mounted them in the stock > location, but no chains, calipers, or speedo drives. > It was interesting to see how the tire would gravitate > to the heavy spot every time. A key clue was the fact > that the tire would actually reverse its rotation > to seek the heavy spot. It took about 1.5 oz to > balance each tire. I used stick-on-time-weights from a > dirtbike shop, but next time I might try weights that > attach to the spokes. Anybody know where to get these? > > TIA > > Randy from Burbank > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more. > http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 21 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:00:23 -0800 (PST) > From: "Eric L. Green" > Subject: Re: Re: standing on pegs in dirt - do it in odd surfaces > > On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 kdxkawboy@... wrote: > > In a message dated 2004-12-16 10:07:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > lasvegasrider@... writes: > > > COG issue - standing up raises it, however, it creates a > fulcrum point of > > > the weight references - trust us - standing up is a good thing in many > > > surface environs. > > > To get the picture it might help to keep in mind that their are to > > physically different COGs, the bike's and your's. Your going straight > > down the road, sitting on the seat and ride no hands. Your weight is > > adding say 200 pounds to the weight of the bike at the height of the > > seat, raising the bike's center of gravity. Do the same stunt, but > > standing up on the pegs. Your COG is higher but you are adding 200 > > pounds to bike at the height of the footpegs, lowering the center of > > gravity. This happens because it's not where your COG is but where your > > weight rides on the bike. > > Err, no. You are confusing center of gravity with where the force of > gravity acting upon your body exerts leverage on the frame. Those are two > different topics altogether. Indeed, standing on the pegs wouldn't help > stabilize the bike on iffy surfaces if it did not RAISE the center of > gravity. A higher center of gravity means that for a given lean amount, > the center of gravity moves in a larger arc, moves a longer distance, > meaning that it takes more force to move the combined bike-man machine off > of a given path. Thus why race bikes and sport bikes are so low that the > rider is squatting on them like a constipated monkey -- so that they can > change direction quickly. But since much of the time when you're riding > offroad the problem is preventing slippery surfaces, rocks, etc. from > changing your direction quickly, a lower center of gravity would not > help offroad. > > But that is not the primary effect of standing on your stability offroad. > The primary effect is simply that it gives you the mobility to move the > center of gravity so that it rests on the line between the axles, thus > preventing the bike from toppling at slow speeds. Try this experiment. Get > on a bicycle that has a very accurate speedometer. Set the seat low. Start > riding, sitting on the seat, and at about 10mph start coasting. Note the > speed at which you start needing to make jerky course corrections with the > handlebars in order to keep from toppling, and the speed at which you had > to put your foot down. Now, do the same experiments, but stand up on the > pedals. I find that on my mountain bike, only the very slightest of > forward motions, barely faster than a snail's crawl, is necessary in order > for me to stay upright then, and my bike is waggling under me as my body > automatically adjusts to stay upright using the same mechanisms that keep > me from falling over when I am standing on a street corner in gusty > winds, or standing on a moving deck on a ship. I.e., as I start leaning > to the left, when standing my body automatically shifts weight to the > right, and vice-versa. > > In addition, as others have noted, standing on the pegs helps keep you > from getting whapped in the butt by the seat as you bounce over rough > terrain. You're now using your legs as suspension, which similarly helps > keep the bike stable and planted (and your butt intact). > > But none of that has anything to do with a mysterious "lowered" center of > gravity. The height of the center of gravity has nothing to do with > balance. The distance of the center of gravity from the centerline between > the hubs of the wheels is the only thing that has anything to do with > balance, and a higher center of gravity that is over that centerline is > thus more stable than a lower center of gravity that's to the left of that > centerline. The inertial effects of center of gravity, not the effects > upon balance, are why sport bikes are so short and squatty in order to get > better cornering, because a lower center of gravity has less distance to > travel in order to attain a specific lean angle, thus attains that lean > angle faster for a given force inputted into the bike in order to offset > the inertia of a mass going in a straight line. > > - E > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 22 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:16:08 -0700 > From: "Fred Hink" > Subject: Re: Chain Alignment and Adjustment Help > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Randall Marbach" > To: "KLR Group" DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 9:59 AM > Subject: [DSN_klr650] Chain Alignment and Adjustment Help > > > > No matter how hard I press on the rear brake, the bike > > shows no signs of wanting to stop. > > Check to see that your rear brakepads are installed correctly and > that they > fit flush with the rotor. > > > I used stick-on-time-weights from a > > dirtbike shop, but next time I might try weights that > > attach to the spokes. Anybody know where to get these? > > Did you see the wheel wieghts I sell on my Parts Pages under the General > section / Tires? > > Fred > http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/cmc.html > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 23 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:23:35 -0000 > From: "Pat (M)" > Subject: NKLR (kinda) - Old guy riding glasses > > > Posted elsewhere - My new issue of Motorcycle Consumer News featured a > product that I really need - maybe you too. While I love my Bolle > sunglasses, I don't always wear 'em up here in rainy WA. My distant > vision is excellent, but I need reading glasses for close stuff. I > find that I need to stop & put on reading glasses to read details on a > map, even small data on my GPS. > > TA DA! An outfit called LessLight sells ANSI standard smoke and clear > bifocals that are wind resistant, made for motorcycle riders, fit > inside a helmet shield and are only $15. I ordered a set each of 1.5 > diopter clear & smoke "Cheaters". Should be here by Christmas, I'll > report how I like 'em. > http://www.lesslight.com/ > > Pat M > A14 > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 24 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:29:43 -0000 > From: "Keith Saltzer" > Subject: Re: WD-40 as chain lube > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Saltzer" > wrote: > > > Every time I read someone saying something about WD-40 wearing out > > a chain for one reason or another, it always started with "I think" > > or "I suspect" or something to that effect. No proof. Yet I read > > countless guys raving about their chains performance while using > it. > > I also read that 2 different chain manufactures recommended it for > > cleaning their chains, although I didn't prove that yet. WD-40 > > does recommend it for cleaning/lubing chains. > > > More on the subject that I remebered later: > > The people saying that WD-40 was bad for chains, couldn't say what > EXACTLY is was in the stuff that made it bad. The ingredients are a > secret, and the website says that even the handfull of people that do > know what's in it, is a secret. > > When you look at the website, and the thousands of things that people > are using it for, you can't help but think that there is no problem > using it on a chain. For instance you can spray your whole motor be > it, outboard, lawn mower, car, motorcycle etc. In fact, they have a > link to click on and you can watch a guy spraying the stuff ALL OVER > his dirt bike motor, chain, and swingarm area. It keeps it protected > from corrosion and makes getting all the mud off of it easy. > > http://www.wd40.com/Brands/wd40_big_blast.html > > There is a lot of hoses and rubber in a motor ya know. People are > spraying this stuff on carpet to remove gum, clothing to remove > stains, and on and on. The website says that it is safe for not only > rubber, but paint, wood, plastics, and a whole array of other things. > > I read one thread from a group of UK folks that were talking about a > test that was done over in an area of the world that has a BIG > problem with road salt on the streets during the winter. (Holland?) > It was said that if you rode a bike over their, and didn't have some > sort of corrosion protectant on your motor, it would start to look > like a mushroom in no time at all. They went on to say that there > were many different products tested out in that environment to see > which would hold up to the salt the best. WD-40 won hands down. > > I found a whole bunch of places to use it more around the house > here. One of the things that I am going to try is using it on my > rims. I am currently repolishing them (professional standards) while > I have the wheels apart for my new spokes and nipples. I read that > if you just spray this stuff on (that's easier than applying anything > else that I have) and wiping it off, it will clean the rim AND coat > it to protect it from getting corroded again. > > MrMoose > A8 (Barbie and Ken special) > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 25 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:42:12 -0000 > From: "Keith Saltzer" > Subject: Re: Vendor: Rider Valley Motorcycles > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "gpokluda" wrote: > > > > Rider Valley Motorcycles is proud to announce its new and improved > > website at www.rvmc.com. > > > > We are also pleased to announce that we will be focusing entirely > on > > Ural side car motorcycles and the Kymco product line. > > > > Ural makes the original and ultimate adventure machine, the 2wd > > Patrol. > > > > Kymco produces some of the finest scooters and atvs available. > > > > Check our site out often for news and deals. > > > > Thanks > > Gino Pokluda > > Rider Valley Motorcycles. > > WOW Gino, that's quite a change in inventory. Your really selling > some unique ride's there. Wish I could see them in person. > > MrMoose > A8 (Barbie and Ken special) > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com > List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >

[Eric L. Green]

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Stuart Mumford wrote:

> Imagine this: You have a 200 pound weight on the seat of your KLR. > Now remove that, split in half, and put a 100 pound weight on each of your > footpegs. > While the total weight is the same, the load is carried lower on the bike.

Which has nothing (nada) to do with center of gravity, which is an inertial construct, not a question of where the two parts of the weight in question are attached. The only two factors of center of gravity that affect balancing the motorcycle are a) its distance from the centerline between the axles of the bike, b) the amount of force needed to move it from its current position to a new position, which in turn depends upon how high the center of gravity is (the higher it is, the further the distance that must be travelled to attain a particular lean angle, and thus the longer you have to respond to the bike slipping and sliding along on a rough surface), and c) the amount of weight you can move around in order to maintain the center of gravity over the centerline of the axles. Standing means that a) varies less when there is an input to the handlebars caused by a rut or slippage or whatever because inertia will tend to maintain your weight straight up and down, which, in turn, will cause your effective center of gravity to move left when the front wheel turns leftward and move right when the front wheel turns rightward (note that turning the front wheel moves the centerline left or right, since the axle is in front of the pivot point). This stabilizes the bike since there's less steering response to an external input. In addition, the higher center of gravity maximizes b and c and thus makes the bike easier to keep straight at slow speed or on bad surfaces. In addition, the geometry of the bike itself helps. Let's say that the surface is making the back wheel to slide to the left. Inertia keeps the front wheel going straight which then turns the wheel to the left in relation to the centerline of the bike. This moves the centerline between the hubs to the left of the center of gravity (i.e., the center of gravity is now to the right of the centerline) since the front hub is in front of the pivot point. This causes the bike to lean to the right, including the leftward-sliding rear wheel, which leans over even more than the front wheel since it has not turned to move along the direction of travel like the front wheel. This in turn imparts a rightward force to the back wheel due to geometric precession (the off-misconstrued "camber thrust"), which if the bike leans a long way over to the right, can actually cause the bike to launch itself violently upright with enough force to throw you off the bike if you are seated on the bike. But if you are standing on your pegs, you automatically pivot to keep yourself going straight along the direction of travel due to inertial effects and the body's wiring (it takes force to deflect your body, and by pivoting on the pegs you are not allowing the bike to exert that force), and your body's mass thus stays closer to the centerline between the wheels, thus imparting less lean and less instability. The bike waggles under you, but you stay going straight and are not flung off when the bike snaps back upright after that slip. Anyhow, to say there's a lot of things going on when you ride a motorcycle offroad is an understatement . Let's just say that standing on the pegs stabilizes the bike and thus is a VERY good idea when you're on loose untidy soil or rough ground that can impart steering forces to the bike, or when you're going slow offroad, and leave it at that. -E

[CA Stu]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Eric L. Green" wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Dec 2004, Stuart Mumford wrote: > > Imagine this: You have a 200 pound weight on the seat of your KLR. > > Now remove that, split in half, and put a 100 pound weight on each

of your

> > footpegs. > > While the total weight is the same, the load is carried lower on

the bike.

> > Which has nothing (nada) to do with center of gravity,

SNIP gigantic egghead post There is nothing in my post about CG, Eric. I was just pointing out that standing on the pegs puts your weight on the pegs instead of on the seat. There are plenty of cohesive, long winded, educated, and comprehensive posts on this subject, I was just trying to give a simple visual example. You gotta stand on the pegs off road to go at a good clip. Why? I really don't care, but I can and do do it. Thanks CA Stu

[Russell Scott]

Old dirt biker motto: "If you don't like to stand, you better like sitting on the ground." R -----Original Message----- From: CA Stu [mailto:s2mumford@...] Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 4:13 PM To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_klr650] RE:Re: standing on pegs in dirt SNIP gigantic egghead post There is nothing in my post about CG, Eric. I was just pointing out that standing on the pegs puts your weight on the pegs instead of on the seat. There are plenty of cohesive, long winded, educated, and comprehensive posts on this subject, I was just trying to give a simple visual example. You gotta stand on the pegs off road to go at a good clip. Why? I really don't care, but I can and do do it. Thanks CA Stu