doohickey recall??????? response - long

DSN_KLR650
clearprop5
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:53 am

progressive springs and cartridge emulators

Post by clearprop5 » Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:49 am

I have just installed some emulators in my KLR. I need some help from someone that has adjusted/tuned the emulators to their bike. I followed the directions for the installation, but feel the front is a little too soft and possibly needs a little more preload. I was using the progressive springs without the emulators and was getting some hard hits going over some rough terrain. I went to the emulators and was told by race tech not to use the progressive springs. They said these springs would not allow the emulators to have full travel. At least thats what race tech said. So I went back to the factory springs and used the 20mm preload they recomended for heavier bikes. The spring sag seems to be a little more than it should be. I also feel the factory setting on the emulators of 4 turns might be a little soft. So here is what I have done and here are my questions for the group. 1. Has anyone found some constant rate sprinigs for the KLR or can I use even longer spacers to get the preload up a little or has anyone used the progressive springs with good success? 2. How many turns on the emulators have been used with favorable results? Any help would be great. Mike --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "John Kokola" wrote:
> > -----Original Message----- > > From: mwl_95623 [mailto:mwl_95623@y...] > > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 12:43 AM > > > > 1. Does everyone drill the additional holes in the damper rod ? > > *** From what I know about installing them in other bikes, you
have to drill
> the damper rod to render it inoperative (that is, to 'bypass' it). > > > 2. What should I use to flush drilled-out material from the
damper
> > rod after drilling the holes ? > > *** Contact cleaner in a spray can if you're fussy; kerosene or
diesel fuel
> works well too. > > > 3. How difficult is it to remove the damper rod retaining bolt ? > > *** I cheat -- the tool from a KZ650 (had one years ago) is the
same as the
> tool for the KLR. All you need is the "bit" part; the "handle" is
basically
> a 3/8" socket (square) end on a long t-handle. > > > 4. Are progressive springs necessary if you install the
emulators ?
> > *** Any aftermarket spring will make a big difference. > > > --John Kokola

el_macho650
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2001 1:42 pm

progressive springs and cartridge emulators

Post by el_macho650 » Sun Nov 28, 2004 2:33 pm

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "clearprop5" wrote:
> I went to the > emulators and was told by race tech not to use the progressive > springs. They said these springs would not allow the emulators to > have full travel. At least thats what race tech said.
He's wrong, sort of. Progressive spring are not ideal, but not for the reason he said. A straight rate spring in a telescopic fork becomes progressive due to the "air spring" of the trapped air inside as the fork collapses. An air spring is extremely progressive. A progressive wound spring in a fork is therefore doubly-progressive and harsh at mid to full compression. It makes it very difficult to tune the rebound damping. The progressive springs are nice because they maintain ride height better with a variable load. They are also the only game in town for the stock KLR forks. Go back to the progressive springs.
> 1. Has anyone found some constant rate sprinigs for the KLR
I looked for a couple of months. Doesn't mean they aren't out there, but I couldn't find them.
> or can I > use even longer spacers to get the preload up a little or has anyone > used the progressive springs with good success?
I used the progressive springs with a 2" spacer. Home Depot has a copper pipe coupling, that's 2" long, either for 1" or 1.25" pipe, that just dropped in. Remember the washers between the preload spacers and the springs.
> 2. How many turns on the emulators have been used with favorable > results?
Progressive says 0-7 turns is the working range. I would stick with 4 turns after you change the springs, see if it works with the higher spring rate. Change one thing at a time, and get a notebook and write down EVERYTHING you do to the front end, at what mileage, on what date.

Doug Pippin
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:45 am

progressive springs and cartridge emulators

Post by Doug Pippin » Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:22 pm

Mike I haven't installed Emulators in the KLR yet. I do have them on order. You can make preload spacers from PVC pipe any length you'd like to use. Make sire you use the metal rings on each end. Doug in NC At 01:48 PM 11/28/04, you wrote:
> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 17:48:41 -0000 > From: "clearprop5" >Subject: Re: Progressive Springs and Cartridge emulators > > >I have just installed some emulators in my KLR. I need some help from >someone that has adjusted/tuned the emulators to their bike. I followed >the directions for the installation, but feel the front is a little too >soft and possibly needs a little more preload. I was using the progressive >springs without the emulators and was getting some hard hits going over >some rough terrain. I went to the emulators and was told by race tech not >to use the progressive springs. They said these springs would not allow >the emulators to have full travel. At least thats what race tech said. So >I went back to the factory springs and used the 20mm preload they >recomended for heavier bikes. The spring sag seems to be a little more >than it should be. I also feel the factory setting on the emulators of 4 >turns might be a little soft. So here is what I have done and here are my >questions for the group. >1. Has anyone found some constant rate sprinigs for the KLR or can I use >even longer spacers to get the preload up a little or has anyone used the >progressive springs with good success? >2. How many turns on the emulators have been used with favorable results? >Any help would be great. >Mike
---------- Doug Pippin 828-684-8488 dpippin5@... ---------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mike Torst
Posts: 1269
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 1:39 pm

progressive springs and cartridge emulators

Post by Mike Torst » Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:14 pm

-----Original Message----- From: clearprop5 [mailto:clearprop5@...] Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 9:49 AM To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: Progressive Springs and Cartridge emulators I have just installed some emulators in my KLR. I need some help from someone that has adjusted/tuned the emulators to their bike. I followed the directions for the installation, but feel the front is a little too soft and possibly needs a little more preload. I was using the progressive springs without the emulators and was getting some hard hits going over some rough terrain. I went to the emulators and was told by race tech not to use the progressive springs. They said these springs would not allow the emulators to have full travel. At least thats what race tech said. So I went back to the factory springs and used the 20mm preload they recomended for heavier bikes. The spring sag seems to be a little more than it should be. I also feel the factory setting on the emulators of 4 turns might be a little soft. So here is what I have done and here are my questions for the group. 1. Has anyone found some constant rate sprinigs for the KLR or can I use even longer spacers to get the preload up a little or has anyone used the progressive springs with good success? 2. How many turns on the emulators have been used with favorable results? Any help would be great. Mike -reply----------------------------- Mike; I use the Progressive Springs, 7.5w fork oil, and 3" preload spacers (I am 6'2" and 230 lbs) and 2.5 turns of disc preload on the emulators. The damping rod was drilled out per instructions and holes camfered, inside and out. It is a joy on the street and very forgiving on blunt-edge impacts off road, and doesn't bottom unless it gets real extreme. I love the package! Michael T A16 aka lasvegasrider

kdxkawboy@aol.com
Posts: 1442
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 7:59 pm

progressive springs and cartridge emulators

Post by kdxkawboy@aol.com » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:08 pm

In a message dated 2004-11-30 12:19:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, lasvegasrider@... writes:
> > I have just installed some emulators in my KLR. I need some help > from someone that has adjusted/tuned the emulators to their bike. I > followed the directions for the installation, but feel the front is > a little too soft and possibly needs a little more preload. I was > using the progressive springs without the emulators and was getting > some hard hits going over some rough terrain. I went to the > emulators and was told by race tech not to use the progressive > springs. They said these springs would not allow the emulators to > have full travel. At least thats what race tech said. So I went back > to the factory springs and used the 20mm preload they recomended for > heavier bikes. The spring sag seems to be a little more than it > should be. I also feel the factory setting on the emulators of 4 > turns might be a little soft. So here is what I have done and here > are my questions for the group. > 1. Has anyone found some constant rate sprinigs for the KLR or can I > use even longer spacers to get the preload up a little or has anyone > used the progressive springs with good success? > 2. How many turns on the emulators have been used with favorable > results? > Any help would be great. > Mike > > > -reply----------------------------- > > Mike; > > > I use the Progressive Springs, 7.5w fork oil, and 3" preload spacers (I am > 6'2" and 230 lbs) and 2.5 turns of disc preload on the emulators. The > damping rod was drilled out per instructions and holes camfered, inside and > out. > > It is a joy on the street and very forgiving on blunt-edge impacts off road, > and doesn't bottom unless it gets real extreme. > > I love the package! > > Michael T > A16 > aka lasvegasrider >
I'm running Race Tech Emulators with PS springs, just used shorter spacers since the emulator added height to the spring, but I wasn't aware that I wasn't getting full function from my emulators all these years. My emulators came with two sets of springs: regular and heavy. You might try the heavier springs, that's what I'm using. If it feels too soft crank in more preload on the emulator spring, I'm at fifteen turns in. Once you get the compression dampening working like you want then you can play with the oil weight to improve the rebound dampening. Pat G'ville, Nv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

mwl_95623
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2002 10:12 am

progressive springs and cartridge emulators

Post by mwl_95623 » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:26 pm

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, kdxkawboy@a... wrote:
> > I'm running Race Tech Emulators with PS springs, >snip >If it feels too soft crank in more > preload on the emulator spring, I'm at fifteen turns in.
Hey Pat, what kind of emulators are you using. How come mine only have 0 - 7 turns? Matt

wannabsmooth1
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2002 4:32 pm

doohickey recall??????? response - long

Post by wannabsmooth1 » Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:49 pm

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Sam King" wrote:
> i appreciate the truth of the response. > i understand that what you have said is exactly how they probably view > the situation but there wouldn't be a "situation" - although an very, > very, very minor > one as far as they are concerned by your explanation - if they would > just over-engineer > the damn part themselves. they don't even have to over-engineer the > part, just correctly > engineer the part or buy some. it doesn't really matter how the > correctly engineered part > gets in the bike at the beginning of the process as long as it > does....at the beginning so > that a concerned consumer wouldn't get on the internet when considering > a KLR650, find > the info about the bad doohickey and get turned off to the bike > altogether. > > In was thinking about buying a KLX300 and went searching for groups and > websites about > the bike and came across similar stuff about that bike. problems simple > enough to fix but > why should i bother when i can get online and find a comparable bike > with less internal > design flaws? > > surely you can understand my point from a common sense marketing point > of view. > do you think that the geniuses at Kawasaki bother to search the internet > for free info > that their consumers are concerned with and talking about? i mean, crap! > it's like being > able to evesdrop on a conversation at a cocktail party without the worry > of getting caught. > what i mean is, all they have to do is get creative and read. surely > someone bucking for > a promotion with any sense at all could figure this out. i wonder where > all the design decisions > are made. > > it's such a simple fix. as we all know and i know that i am repeating > myself but they have > been making the bike for 15 years. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: a17circusbear [mailto:a17circusbear@y...] > Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 3:52 AM > To: Sam King > Subject: Re: doohickey recall > > > > this is my take on this from my view and what i figure kawaski as a > big company thinks of it. > > for starters its a small percentage of bikes that actually have a > defective doohickey. the small percentage say as big as 10% but most > likely 2-3% of bikes produced by kawasaki. so based on 10% lets say > kawasaki sells 25000 bikes per year 250 doohickies would fall in the > 10 percentile. what is the average mileage of bad/broken doohickies? > i dunno but guess around 12-15000 miles probably more miles than > that, but there is a good base line (and i know i am throwing things > into the higher percentile and probably lower average mileage than > realaity but as i said my best guess and a good base line for numbers) > > 12-15000 miles, thats about 2-3 years for the average rider based on > the kelly blue book mileage guideline. your standard warrenty runs > out at the 1 year mark. your extended warrenty is usually 2-3 years. > > so here is where i am going with my babble.. > > kawi figures most bikes will exceed the warrenty period before a > doohickie fails. i would guess that probably less than 1% of actual > doohicky problems ever actually make it to the dealerships attention. > > due to the fact that most people are idiots and figure the motor is > blown and just turn the bike over to a cycle salvage yard. the other > non-idot people are smart enough to NOT take thier bike to the dealer > for repairs. and because of this and the fact that the doohickie is > brought to the attention of other people in and around the klr world > and after market replacement is availablefor nearly the same price as > a stock OEM replacement and the aftermarket version is heavily over > engineered. so with these things in mind, i must ask WHAT PROBLEM? > > i am sure there is a guide line set by the department of > transportation or the board of transportation and saftey or whoever > that says a certain percentile of KNOWN bad parts must be recalled. > known bad probably means known bad phyisacally and in the hands of > kawasaki people. not known bad, i have one and you have one but kawi > didnt know it becasue i chose to replace it myself and work around > the issue at hand and not waste my time with the dealer and the input > of kawasaki people. > > in my opinion one tenth of 1 percent of actuall bikes produced have a > bad doohickie within a reasonable time/mileage period. of this one > tenth of one percent i would guess one percent of them are actually > fixed/inspected/replaced by a true kawasaki authorized dealer. and > probably one percent of the one percent of the one tenth of one > percent are actually under warrenty. again in kawasaki's eyes, WHAT > PROBLEM? >
My personal experience is that better than 10% of the bikes I've worked on have bad levers in them. That does not include some of the bikes that only have broken springs. If anyone wants to question this, I can send you a pic of a bunch of broken levers, and I didn't get to keep all the broken levers out of bikes I've fixed, or helped fix. Yes, I make a replacement, but that did not cause these to break. Every new bike that I'm aware of has some serious design issue. Start with the new BMW's, horrible driveline issues, in a $15K, to $25K bike???? My new FJR is at risk, valves and valve guides go bad in some of them maybe 1 in 7? For $14K????? At least the KLR can be fixed easily, and fairly inexpensively. (I don't say that excuses Kawasaki for not fixing it before now). Even if Kawasaki came out with an upgraded lever, it would not be as good as either of the aftermarket parts out there, IMO. All the best, Mike

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