new to list and some questions

[Judson D. Jones]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Lewis" wrote: . Probably 80% of the people I meet, wear no helmet at all.

> Stastics show that helmets don't increase survial rates but they do > allow for open caskets.

Statistics from what planet? Or were they compiled by someone from that 80%?

[aboyandhisdawg]

the opeblem here is that ALL helmets are lumped into the same category. no matter if it's an Arai or Shoei full face, a "novelty" beanie or a 30 year old bucket that doesn't fit properly.

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Mike Frey wrote: > Last week. > > Lancaster News always reports "He was wearing a helmet" or "He was not > wearing a helmet". > > Unfortunately in the past 2 weeks we've had at least 4 locally, all > wearing helmets. > > Mark Lewis wrote: > > >When was the last time you saw a news item > >mentioning that a dead biker was wearing a helmet? > > > > > > > >

[Don Bittle]

When I see a rider without a helmet, I just view it as a strengthening of the gene pool don From: "Eric L. Green" To: "Mark Lewis" Cc: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Re: Skull Caps and other methods of killing yourself - NKLR

> On Thu, 20 May 2004, Mark Lewis wrote: > > Stastics show that helmets don't increase survial rates but they do >

[Mark Lewis]

Didn't mean to upset you guys. It's a free country at least until November anyway. You can find stastics to prove anything. I'm the Safety Manager for a large DOD contractor. I get a little tired of safety sometimes. At 100 plus degrees the suit of armor get a little old. Mark Lewis

[Eric L. Green]

On Thu, 20 May 2004, Mark Lewis wrote:

> safety sometimes. At 100 plus degrees the suit of armor get a little > old.

You need to try the Joe Rocket Phoenix then. It's almost like wearing no pants and jacket at all. -E

[Jerry Pommer]

Since we're exchanging war stories... A couple of years ago I took a fall off of my bicycle - stay with me here- while standing on the pedals, about 15mph. Standing up to pedal like that puts my head about 7 feet above ground. My front tire blew, the front end slipped left, I went right, and met the concrete on my head and right shoulder. I was knocked stupid for a few minutes, but soon became lucid again and walked the bike home. When I finally took my helmet off I found that the impact was enough to split it: http://www.brainfood.com/~jpommer/broken_helmet/ (instead of my skull). I had a headache and a sore neck for two days, and lost a little skin. Surely the outcome would have been much more dramatic had I been concerned about how ridiculous I must look with that hunk of foam and plastic on my head. I was just on the jogging trail after all, not blasting down the side of a mountain. Inconvenience? A trip to the trauma ward is pretty damned inconvenient, I think. Or having to learn how to feed yourself or read or speak all over again, or worse. --- hondapotamus@... wrote:

> I must say that I've enjoyed all of the postings in > response to the skull cap and helmet vs. no helmet > thread. While I respect anyone's right to ride > without head protection, I don't consider it to be > very wise. Twice during my 40 year riding career > (age 53 - started at age 13) a helmet has either > saved my life or prevented serious injury. The first > time, at age 14, I was executing a wheelie (~30mph) > across a paved school parking lot and I let the bike > run out from under me. The first thing to hit the > pavement was my tennis shoes and the second was my > head. The impact was sufficient to crush the > forehead area of my Bell fiberglass 1/2 helmet like > a dropped egg and knock me unconscious. This > happened on a Sunday evening, directly across the > road from a church, and I woke up to find the pastor > and a crowd from the church praying over me. I had > one hell of a headache for two days, but I > recovered. The second save was at age 51 when I > T-Boned a Toyota at around 60mph. The bas! > tard turned right from the left lane of a four lane > as I was overtaking him from the right lane. I stuck > a BMW R1150GS into his right rear quarter panel with > enough force to spin the car 90 degrees. According > to witnesses, both myself and the BMW went over the > trunk of the Toyota. I did the Superman thing for > approximately 50 feet before landing on the top of > my head, flipped over, and slid down the highway on > my back. This time they hauled me away on a body > board, but two hours later, I walked out of the > hospital with only a few broken toes. My Arai > Quantum E had some nice hunks missing. Yes, I was > very lucky and I actually thought long and hard > about giving up the hobby. I have since bought two > new bikes because I couldn't imagine living the rest > of my life without riding. But ... you can bet your > ass that I don't ride anywhere without a Snell and > DOT full face helmet, leather sole boots, and either > my Aerostitch or Phoenix gear. > One day, I may still bite the big weenie, but it > will be less of a mess. > > - Keith A7 > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at > www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris > Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >

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[kdxkawboy@aol.com]

In a message dated 2004-05-20 9:51:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, zmully@... writes:

> > On Thu, 2004-05-20 at 12:18, Mark Lewis wrote: > >Helmets are heavier than they need to be because because in order to > >pass the DOT and Snell requirements they have to resist puncture. > >The guy who wrote the article felt that the puncture test wasn't > >valid and more folks would wear the lighter helmets. My 3/4 helmet > >is DOT/Snell approved. It's an HJC that cost $38.00 new. I have > >another DOT/Snell approved helmet that cost $25.00 new last year. I > >don't think either one of them increases my chance of survival. I > >wear a helmet because I always have and I feel funny without one. It > >gives my wife the warm fuzzys too. Each to his own! > > > >

II've heard and read from lots of folks that think they know more about helmet testing than SNELL, but what I do know is that SNELL is the only organization out that actively goes out and studies helmets that have been through real crashes in order to better their testing standards. If they feel that their studies support the need for puncture resistance then I want my skid lid to pass a puncture test cause I'll bet SNELL has seen countless helmets that have been punctured. Pat G'ville, Nv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[squasher_1]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Pommer wrote:

> Since we're exchanging war stories... > > A couple of years ago I took a fall off of my bicycle > - stay with me here- while standing on the pedals, > about 15mph. Standing up to pedal like that puts my > head about 7 feet above ground. My front tire blew, > the front end slipped left, I went right, and met the > concrete on my head and right shoulder. I was knocked > stupid for a few minutes, but soon became lucid again > and walked the bike home. When I finally took my > helmet off I found that the impact was enough to split > it: > > http://www.brainfood.com/~jpommer/broken_helmet/ > > (instead of my skull). I had a headache and a sore > neck for two days, and lost a little skin. Surely the > outcome would have been much more dramatic had I been > concerned about how ridiculous I must look with that > hunk of foam and plastic on my head. I was just on the > jogging trail after all, not blasting down the side of > a mountain. Inconvenience? A trip to the trauma ward > is pretty damned inconvenient, I think. Or having to > learn how to feed yourself or read or speak all over > again, or worse. > >

the distance of the fall is the same regardless of forward speed. the thing that really F's up us motorcyclists is the rolling/sliding and or sudden stop(impact).

[Tengai Mark Van Horn]

At 2:39 PM +0000 5/20/04, Mark Lewis wrote:

>Let's go back to those CDC statistics that show helmets prevent >deaths.

Forget about all the death talk, I just wanna protect my pretty face. Three years ago, the pavement zoomed past my eyes at 80mph. My helmet looked like it went through a belt sander. Without the helmet, I certainly would have endured months of painful reconstruction at the least! Mark http://www.reelrider.com

[Tim Nielsen]

Mark, interesting thoughts, I'd like to just add a couple. I disagree on your thought that a helmet only decreases an impact by about 13 mph. Dropping a helmet from 6 feet might reach 13mph, but that 13mph is hitting the helmet in one spot. On the inside of your helmet, that impact is distributed by the crushable shell, and the padding, to a much larger surface area, effectively dampening the impact significantly more. That is not to say that a helmet makes you immortal or anything like it, BUT, I think you underestimate their effectiveness. And I think more importantly than concussion safety, a helmet works to prevent penetrating type of injuries, you know that sharp piece of metal driving through your skull. And in lower speed crashes, where brain injuries might not occur, helmets might just prevent a nasty face plant that might not be listed as 'serious' according to your statistics, but it's the kind of accident we're more likely to find ourselves in. I have no doubt that you've opened up a can of worms here. That being said, I'm not for mandatory helmet laws either, people have to learn to be responsible for their own actions, and actions have consequences. I choose to wear a helmet, would even in a non-helmet state. Tim