nklr non-cog: diy paper yamaha motorcycles

[Devon]

moabmc@... wrote:

>I know it's hard to believe that the whole world doesn't revolve around the >good ol USA. >

Don't be silly. I don't expect them to start using English as the official language at their office in Holland, but they sell pipes here for offroad use and haven't gotten them approved by the forestry service. So if they sell here then some (admittedly small) bit of their business does revolve around the USA.

> I have been in contact with Jama many times about the USFS >spark arrestor issue and they are just not interested. As far as I know, I >am the only source for the Laser Pro Duro for the KLR in North America. The >KLR slice of the Laser Pie is pretty small and I doubt that what ever you >have to tell Jama is going to make much of a difference. I wish you the >best. > >

How expensive is it to get a pipe USFS approved?

>I did run a Laser Pro Duro over to the local USFS office and got the word >from the guy that does the checking of spark arrestors. He told me that if >he were to check this exhaust in "the field" that he would pass it. >

Great if I ride in Moab, doesn't help me in NJ. The problem is you may have a ranger or officer who is actively looking for an excuse to ticket you, or exclude riders from an area. They're not going to test anything because they're not interested in the actual spark arresting properties of whatever pipe you have, and/or don't have the equipment. If it doesn't have the USFS stamp them you can't ride.

> So I >guess you can make as big a deal about the no USFS stamp as you want to. >The Laser Pro Duro is still the finest exhaust for the KLR on the market >today. >

Yes. And when it has that damned stamp I'll buy one. Devon

[Mike T]

Well shit, to reiterate your term, the local USFS has said no to the stock non USFS spark arrestor of the Laser Pro Duro, and well shit, my bike is not stock as to the dyno run! Well shit- Mike T A16 Las Vegas -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Mumford [mailto:s2mumford@...] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 12:18 AM To: Mike T Cc: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [DSN_klr650] RE: Cobra Sparky USFS approved and the Laser Duro Pro - update

> -----Original Message----- > Gee, I was informed that the cost was NOT high. It is not the EPA > test. Just > how much are these non-US based builders factoring in when they > build their > product and offer them through US distributors? I heard of a > financial cost > lower than one months mortgage, but perhaps I was mislead. > > > Facts on cost. > > The Laser Pro Duro spark arrestor has big holes cut into a convex metal > disk, welded into the mufflers 'stinger'; not a screen like the Cobra > Stinger, or other US solutions. > > > Note - I will not make a dime out of this debacle. When my fix is > workable, > and approved by local USFS auditors, I will make sure that all parties are > up to speed (in our little DS world, for sure). > > Those that sell the Laser Pro Duro can use my results, without > compensation, > to market the package. I will never see a DIME. > > > Mike T > A16 > Las Vegas

Well shit, having my bike tested and passed several times by the AMA officials, forest service, and BLM personnel in what is arguably the area of the country most prone to forest fires isn't good enough for you? It's good enough for me, and them. I humbly suggest you contact Laser/Jama at JAMA Engineering B.V. Boonsweg 85 3274 LH Heinenoord The Netherlands http://www.laser-jama.nl to see if they approve? Seems kinda presumptuous to do anything like that without their consent and approval...

> PS - still need a stock KLR to be in/ come to Las Vegas for dyno testing - > with a good chain.

Why not test yours? I mean it's brand spankin' new, isn't it? Thanks CA Stu

[Mike T]

I agree that the laser Pro Duro is a great piece of equipment. I also agree that my efforts (Sparky) are related to being 'asked' to leave by my local USFS ranger. SO screw it. I'll just shut up. Mike T A16 Las vegas -----Original Message----- From: Fred Hink [mailto:moabmc@...] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 1:24 AM To: KLR650 group Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Cobra Sparky USFS approved and the Laser Duro Pro - update I know it's hard to believe that the whole world doesn't revolve around the good ol USA. I have been in contact with Jama many times about the USFS spark arrestor issue and they are just not interested. As far as I know, I am the only source for the Laser Pro Duro for the KLR in North America. The KLR slice of the Laser Pie is pretty small and I doubt that what ever you have to tell Jama is going to make much of a difference. I wish you the best. I did run a Laser Pro Duro over to the local USFS office and got the word from the guy that does the checking of spark arrestors. He told me that if he were to check this exhaust in "the field" that he would pass it. So I guess you can make as big a deal about the no USFS stamp as you want to. The Laser Pro Duro is still the finest exhaust for the KLR on the market today. Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/cmc.html

----- Original Message ----- From: "bigfatgreenbike" To: "KLR650 group" DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Cobra Sparky USFS approved and the Laser Duro Pro - update > > > z89101@... wrote: > > >Personally, I want the USFS arrestor mounted when I am off-road, regardless > >of the government's approval. > > > > > > > > > For those occasions when just one spark arrestor isn't enough? > > The pro-duro actually has a spark arrestor, apparently Laser just didn't > bother to get it USFS approved. > > Too bad. I think a lot of people might buy one if they didn't have to > worry about getting ticketed or booted from a D/S ride. > > -- > Devon List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_klr650/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Mike T]

Thanks Devon, I was getting shi# on hard by several listers. Damn, facts suck with some. Mike T A16 Las Vegas -----Original Message----- From: Devon [mailto:bigfatgreenbike@...] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:03 AM To: KLR650 group Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Cobra Sparky USFS approved and the Laser Duro Pro - update moabmc@... wrote:

>I know it's hard to believe that the whole world doesn't revolve around the >good ol USA. >

Don't be silly. I don't expect them to start using English as the official language at their office in Holland, but they sell pipes here for offroad use and haven't gotten them approved by the forestry service. So if they sell here then some (admittedly small) bit of their business does revolve around the USA.

> I have been in contact with Jama many times about the USFS >spark arrestor issue and they are just not interested. As far as I know, I >am the only source for the Laser Pro Duro for the KLR in North America.

The

>KLR slice of the Laser Pie is pretty small and I doubt that what ever you >have to tell Jama is going to make much of a difference. I wish you the >best. > >

How expensive is it to get a pipe USFS approved?

>I did run a Laser Pro Duro over to the local USFS office and got the word >from the guy that does the checking of spark arrestors. He told me that if >he were to check this exhaust in "the field" that he would pass it. >

Great if I ride in Moab, doesn't help me in NJ. The problem is you may have a ranger or officer who is actively looking for an excuse to ticket you, or exclude riders from an area. They're not going to test anything because they're not interested in the actual spark arresting properties of whatever pipe you have, and/or don't have the equipment. If it doesn't have the USFS stamp them you can't ride.

> So I >guess you can make as big a deal about the no USFS stamp as you want to. >The Laser Pro Duro is still the finest exhaust for the KLR on the market >today. >

Yes. And when it has that damned stamp I'll buy one. Devon List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DSN_klr650/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Mike T]

Walt, what a great idea! Will you do mine as well (I'll transfer $500m to you from my sparrow grant, once Hillary cuts the check). Mike T "Sparky boy, under duress from listers, for bringing the USFS issue up, as it relates to the truly great Laser exhaust system - if ONLY the USFS stamp was on the damn thing, this shi$ would NOT be an issue. A16 Las Vegas -----Original Message----- From: Walt [mailto:a14@...] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:18 AM To: KLR650 group; Devon Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Cobra Sparky USFS approved and the Laser Duro Pro - update

> Yes. And when it has that damned stamp I'll buy one. > > Devon > >

I am considering stamping the info from my stock can to the Pro Duro. Do you think they will call in and research the numbers? Walt A14 "War Horse"

[Stuart Mumford]

> -----Original Message----- > I know it's hard to believe that the whole world doesn't revolve > around the > good ol USA. I have been in contact with Jama many times about the USFS > spark arrestor issue and they are just not interested. As far as > I know, I > am the only source for the Laser Pro Duro for the KLR in North > America. The > KLR slice of the Laser Pie is pretty small and I doubt that what ever you > have to tell Jama is going to make much of a difference. I wish you the > best. > > I did run a Laser Pro Duro over to the local USFS office and got the word > from the guy that does the checking of spark arrestors. He told > me that if > he were to check this exhaust in "the field" that he would pass it. So I > guess you can make as big a deal about the no USFS stamp as you want to. > The Laser Pro Duro is still the finest exhaust for the KLR on the market > today. > > Fred > http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/cmc.html >

Mr. Hink, you have crystallized my thoughts in a erudite fashion, and I thank you. Next time, I'm gonna just email you direct and let you rewrite my post. Have you ever thought of a side career as an editor ? I think this whole thing is a non-issue. It's like one of the air filter threads: When one lister was posting about how he loved K&N filters, I felt compelled to share my experience with them cloggin off road. I have seen it 3 times, it _does_ happen. I have had my muffler "tech inspected" at least 3 times, it _does_ pass. You can't argue with experience. Well, I suppose you can, but I don't. Thanks CA Stu

[Stuart Mumford]

> -----Original Message----- >"Sparky boy, under duress from listers, for bringing the USFS issue up, as

it relates to the truly great Laser exhaust system - if ONLY the USFS stamp was on the damn thing, this shi$ would NOT be an issue. ------------------------------ No,you're missing the point. If you would stop waving the flag about it, it wouldn't be an issue. I have yet to hear of anyone being denied access to an area or not allowed to participate in a ride because of the lack of a USFS stamp, especially on a muffler that Mr. Hink and I have both had tested by folks that are paid to do exactly that in the field. *** Correction!! I just read that you were actually asked to leave by a ranger.I understand your motivation, now. Damn Digest mode! Do you think that the lack of a USFS stamp on your muffler was the entire reason for the bum rush you got, or would he have found something else to use against you? My whole concern Mike is that if you keep meddling with the USFS and the Federal bureaucracy in general, you're going to give some middle manager a reason to inspect me and hassle me, and it's going to cause me frustration, and probably cost me some money. Do me a favor and channel all your seemingly boundless energy towards a positive cause, like land access, rider's rights, or reopening the Dunes at Glamis. The offroad community needs motivated people like you, Mike T from Las Vegas. Focus that energy on something constructive for me, wouldya? Thanks CA Stu

[Mike T]

I appreciate your clarification. In my case, the lack of the USFS stamp WAS the issue - the rod was not used - the lack of a stamp was all that was needed by the ranger to ask me to return to asphalt. As to putting my energy into land use issues - don't we all do that? We, here in Nevada, are under siege by various factions intent on removing us (all OHV vehicles) from USFS areas of jurisdiction. I am fighting it, along with a lot of others. The anti OHV siege is evident across the U.S.A. The BLM is also getting there ears filled with anti-OHV communications. I will run the Sparky and I do apply my energies toward land use issues. Mike T A16 Las Vegas -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Mumford [mailto:s2mumford@...] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 9:26 AM To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_klr650] RE:RE: Cobra Sparky USFS approved and the Laser Duro Pro - update

> -----Original Message----- >"Sparky boy, under duress from listers, for bringing the USFS issue up, as

it relates to the truly great Laser exhaust system - if ONLY the USFS stamp was on the damn thing, this shi$ would NOT be an issue. ------------------------------ No,you're missing the point. If you would stop waving the flag about it, it wouldn't be an issue. I have yet to hear of anyone being denied access to an area or not allowed to participate in a ride because of the lack of a USFS stamp, especially on a muffler that Mr. Hink and I have both had tested by folks that are paid to do exactly that in the field. *** Correction!! I just read that you were actually asked to leave by a ranger.I understand your motivation, now. Damn Digest mode! Do you think that the lack of a USFS stamp on your muffler was the entire reason for the bum rush you got, or would he have found something else to use against you? My whole concern Mike is that if you keep meddling with the USFS and the Federal bureaucracy in general, you're going to give some middle manager a reason to inspect me and hassle me, and it's going to cause me frustration, and probably cost me some money. Do me a favor and channel all your seemingly boundless energy towards a positive cause, like land access, rider's rights, or reopening the Dunes at Glamis. The offroad community needs motivated people like you, Mike T from Las Vegas. Focus that energy on something constructive for me, wouldya? Thanks CA Stu

[Devon]

s2mumford@... wrote:

>I think this whole thing is a non-issue. It's like one of the air filter >threads: When one lister was posting about how he loved K&N filters, I felt >compelled to share my experience with them cloggin off road. I have seen it >3 times, it _does_ happen. I have had my muffler "tech inspected" at least 3 >times, it _does_ pass. >You can't argue with experience. > >

Nobody's arguing with experience. But people have had the opposite experience as well, and not everyone will run into someone who's reasonable or even fair. Sometimes conforming to the letter of the law (paying it lip service if you will) is the only way around draconian enforcement practices. What it comes down to is this: I am not going to give an irate ranger an easy way to kick me out of wherever it is I'm riding. The only premium-quality, quiet, lightweight, durable, performance pipe for the KLR doesn't have an approval stamp for the forestry service. This is silly. And the flip side of Laser being a big company that won't listen to little ol' me whining about the USFS stamp issue- If they're big enough to ignore the concerns of their main (or only) USA importer, why aren't they big enough to just deal with getting the f*&king thing forestry approved? Devon

[kdxkawboy@aol.com]

In a message dated 2003-12-17 12:20:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, s2mumford@... writes:

> > Well shit, having my bike tested and passed several times by the AMA > officials, forest service, and BLM personnel in what is arguably the area of > the country most prone to forest fires isn't good enough for you? It's good > enough for me, and them. > >

Basically there is a lot of wiggle room with the way the law gets enforced. Here is in part the reason why. Chain saws are required to have a spark arrestor and most manufacturers have settled on a screen. When you get a wood cutting permit you are required to pull apart the exhaust to show the screen is still in place. Because of the nature of a 2-stroke and the short exhaust these screens clog easily and many a faller just tosses them. Since you can't tear apart the exhaust of a hot saw most rangers have taken to using the old stick a twig in the exhaust to feel for the screen. Rather then deal with having to get down and visually find the seal of approval most rangers will just fall back on the tried and true test that proves you have a working spark arrestor - be it a screen or a plate it has to be something that would keep you from poking a stick up your exhaust. However, the letter of the law states your exhaust must be stamped with the proper verbiage to prove it has a legal spark arrestor and the problem comes the day you run into that 1 in a 100 jerk of a ranger that is just looking to make your day. He's the guy that is likely to comment, I notice you have an aftermarket pipe, got a spark a spark arrestor on it? At many an enduro/XC race the sponsoring club and AMA officials have gone around the pits to cull out any potential problems because they just happened to draw the jerk as the USFS rep. Pat G'ville, Nv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]