whats the law against music on the road????????

DSN_KLR650
thad_carey
Posts: 264
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 10:53 am

airbox screen - pros and cons

Post by thad_carey » Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:06 am

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Thor Lancelot Simon wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 04:07:48AM -0000, thad_carey wrote: > > > > Get rid of it. It's referred to as a backfire screen. The
KLR
> > design, what with its cam and ignition timing, is not prone to > > backfiring. I even had XRs in the past with cams and other hot
rod
> > With the stock pilot screw setting, my KLR did very very
occasionally
> shudder and fart in a way I would have thought was a small backfire. > > There's a machine shop that advertises in DSN whose main off-the-
shelf
> product is free-flow airboxes for various enduro bikes. These use
big
> cylindrical filters that seem much better suited to a high-flow
design
> than the filter style used in the KLR airbox (having much
experience with
> K&N filters in automotive applications, all I can really say is
that they're
> great for getting dust in your engine, and _may_ have slight airflow > benefits). I don't really love the idea of chopping up my KLR's
airbox
> as others have done and was contemplating picking up the phone and
seeing
> if the aforementioned shop would be interested in making a KLR
version
> of their airbox -- would anyone else be interested in this? > > Thor
Thor, the mod doesn't really destroy the stock airbox. Even water shedding integrity is not affected to any great degree. The stock airbox is huge and has some decent drain openings. The area that should be cut out of the box is well under a protected area of the saddle. To get water in great amounts will just about require water up to the bottom of the saddle. Of course this can happen, but by that time I think you'll have other problems. The splash factor would be the biggest concern, and the modified holes and their location don't appear to expose any greater degree of problem than the smaller stock hole, other than there are more holes. It's just not an area that is highly exposed. The huge size of the KLR airbox is a plus when it comes to a very large "dead air" space that 4-cycle engines like for better performance. Thad Carey A15 (in Barbie's clothes)

Jim The Canoeist
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:43 am

airbox screen - pros and cons

Post by Jim The Canoeist » Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:59 am

Do you mean spark arrester in the tail pipe? This is not a screen in the exhaust; it's the intake end - the air box surrounding the filter. -Jim in AZ
----- Original Message ----- From: "KLR Rider - Scott Adams" To: "KLR Mailing List" DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 12:01 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Re: Airbox screen - pros and cons > Gotta be REAL careful with this. In Oregon the Oregon Department of > Forestry officials will stick a tool in the back of your exhaust...

Stuart Mumford
Posts: 1178
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2000 6:45 pm

airbox screen - pros and cons

Post by Stuart Mumford » Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:55 pm

Leave it there. .00005 HP isn't worth the hassle. It's an un-reversible mod, and it won't make a fart's worth of difference to the performance of your KLR. I have the exact same set up you do, right down to the L cutout, the Laser can, and the Big Gun head pipe. I have a Keihin 150 main (Dynojet and Keihin use different numbering systems, a 150 Dynojet jet is not the same as a Keihin 150), the adjustable Dynojet needle with the clip on the second slot from the top, the drilled out slide, the idle mixture screw at 2 1/2 turns out,and I recently switched to Uni air filters. Not a speed demon, but what power there is is delivereed in a smooth tractable fashion, and my bike runs perfect. K&Ns will clog and stop your engine in extreme dusty conditions. I don't think anyone would give a crap about filtration properties if their bike chokes out in a sand wash 20 miles from anywhere, that's my primary concern when I'm off road. I would rather have a filter admit a little dust into my engine when it's saturated with dirt than one that will just make the bike unrideable. I know what i'm talking about on this issue, I have had K&N's shit on me (twice) under severe dusty conditions, and seen it happen to a good friend of mine once. I have a still standing offer of a crisp $50 bill to anyone that can get a KLR to dyno over 39hp with just carb and pipe mods. John Lyon has the official challenge email memorized, I think (Lyon, you out there man?). It's just not going to happen, so spend your money on suspension and enjoy the KLR's motor for what it is. Post-doohickeyectomy, it's a reliable, solid, durable, great machine. Good Luck CA Stu <-- spent way too much trying to make a KLR motor into something it will never be.

thad_carey
Posts: 264
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 10:53 am

airbox screen - pros and cons

Post by thad_carey » Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:10 pm

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Mumford" wrote:
> Leave it there. > .00005 HP isn't worth the hassle. > > It's an un-reversible mod, and it won't make a fart's worth of
difference to
> the performance of your KLR. > I have the exact same set up you do, right down to the L cutout,
the Laser
> can, and the Big Gun head pipe. > I have a Keihin 150 main (Dynojet and Keihin use different numbering > systems, a 150 Dynojet jet is not the same as a Keihin 150), the
adjustable
> Dynojet needle with the clip on the second slot from the top, the
drilled
> out slide, the idle mixture screw at 2 1/2 turns out,and I recently
switched
> to Uni air filters. Not a speed demon, but what power there is is
delivereed
> in a smooth tractable fashion, and my bike runs perfect. > > K&Ns will clog and stop your engine in extreme dusty conditions. I
don't
> think anyone would give a crap about filtration properties if their
bike
> chokes out in a sand wash 20 miles from anywhere, that's my primary
concern
> when I'm off road. I would rather have a filter admit a little dust
into my
> engine when it's saturated with dirt than one that will just make
the bike
> unrideable. I know what i'm talking about on this issue, I have had
K&N's
> shit on me (twice) under severe dusty conditions, and seen it
happen to a
> good friend of mine once. > > I have a still standing offer of a crisp $50 bill to anyone that
can get a
> KLR to dyno over 39hp with just carb and pipe mods. John Lyon has
the
> official challenge email memorized, I think (Lyon, you out there
man?).
> It's just not going to happen, so spend your money on suspension
and enjoy
> the KLR's motor for what it is. > Post-doohickeyectomy, it's a reliable, solid, durable, great
machine.
> > > Good Luck > CA Stu
something it
> will never be.
Stu, I gotta disagree with you on at least a couple of issues. I'll start with the easy one--K&N air filters. I actively raced enduros from 1974 until 1992. Enduros are one of the most dust choked events that a dirt bike can be put through in Texas. Cross country is not far behind. You're constantly working your way back and forth through groups of riders on tight trails. I raced 4 strokes from about 1979 to 1992 which all had K&N filters--some I had to even engineer to fit from other bikes when a factory stocker wasn't available. In the worst and dustiest events, some nearly 100 actual ground miles, I never clogged the filter during the event to a point where I noticed power drop. In some cases there surely had to be some loss, but it wasn't really noticeable. I would be riding with or around other riders that I would occasionally see taking their foam filter out at a reset or gas stop and literally rinsing the dirt out with gas and putting the filter back in to finish an event. Some riders would have a spare foam filter in a plastic bag to swap out at the gas stop in a dusty event. I never saw a K&N rider have to do this during an event. During post-race service and cleanup, I would often look at my K&N and wonder how any air was getting through, but it was working. Also an inspection of the air boot and carb throat downstream of the filter revealed no noticeable dirt particles. You mention some K&Ns that were clogged. I wonder how long they went between cleanings. Because they will go longer than a foam filter, I've seen people try to run them until they clog. If you put them on dirt bikes, no one should expect the kind of service interval you might get on a street vehicle. Dirt bikes need their filters cleaned frequently no matter what the filters are made of. I've got K&Ns on just about every vehicle that I can get them for, including a 180,000 mile '89 full-size GMC Jimmy 4X4. When properly installed and serviced, they are amazing. As to the power increase on the airbox mod, you are correct about not being able to definitively qualify this without a dyno. The perspective of low end torque and ease of acceleration are often performance areas that can be skewed by one's personal experience. Having had 3 previous KLRs, I guess that is why the airbox mod results impressed me so much. I worked at a shop for 15 years and had installed KLR aftermarket pipes, K&Ns, and carb jets, but had never ridden one with the airbox opened up, including any of mine. I can also tell by the increased jetting (up to a 158 main) to get the proper air/fuel mixture that a lot more air, and logically power, are flowing through this engine. That 158 main jet was attained by plug checks at various throttle runs, and mileage stayed within the same 45-50 original number. I got 60 mpg with this setup once, but that was only on 3 gal. of fuel at 55-60 mph with a tailwind--ideal conditions. The one semi-qualifiable performance issue involves how strongly and quickly this KLR gets to 100 mph--that's with a calibrated bicycle computer. No KLR I ever rode attains that speed this quickly. I now wish I had run over to our local 1/8th mile strip before and after the mod to get a real number. I'm a little surprised that so many folks are skeptical that there's not at least a decent power increase to be had by the total airbox mod when one looks at the OEM airbox intake hole. This is a 650cc single that takes a pretty big gulp of air occasionally. You combine the airbox inlet increase and wire mesh removal, and you get a decent increase in airflow. Now if you have a good aftermarket pipe, high-flow air filter, and proper jetting, you can attain a noticeable power increase. As I've said before, open-class motocross power is not going to jump out of this motor, but a pleasant non-anemic increase is available. It would be great to get real dyno run on a fully modified KLR, but I guess even then you'd have to qualify mileage/wear, proper jetting, and exhaust issues. Additionally the power curve as to where and how quickly power and torque developed would be interesting and meaningful. Here's one thing that's very positive and absolutely certain about the airbox mod--it's relatively free. Thad Carey A15 (but lookin' like Barbie)

Stu
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2000 5:03 pm

airbox screen - pros and cons

Post by Stu » Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:02 pm

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "thad_carey" wrote:
> Stu, I gotta disagree with you on at least a couple of
issues. OK
> In the worst and dustiest events, some nearly 100 > actual ground miles, I never clogged the filter during the event to
a SNIP I saw one clog on LA-B-V, a 500 mile 2 day event. We ride 150 miles before lunch both days. Another on a 100+ mile dual sport run in Ocotillo Wells, very fine sandy conditions that I compoiunded by burying my KLR up to the swingarm in a sand wash and roosting and digging for 1 hr trying to climb out of the damn thing. The 3rd was in Utah, My XR was already running way rich due to the altitude and the K&N's minor clogging just killed the rest of the power. I've got K&Ns on just about every vehicle that I can get
> them for, including a 180,000 mile '89 full-size GMC Jimmy 4X4.
When Me too, every STREET vehicle. SNIP Now if you have a good aftermarket pipe, high-flow air
> filter, and proper jetting, you can attain a noticeable power > increase.
Prove it. Dyno numbers talk, bullshit walks.
> Here's one thing that's very positive and absolutely > certain about the airbox mod--it's relatively free.
Here's another thing, it's irreversable.
> Thad Carey > A15 (but lookin' like Barbie)
Thanks CA Stu A13 (but looks like an A14) (no kidding) PS I still say leave the screen there, and I'm right.

kcuf_oohay_666
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2001 11:52 pm

airbox screen - pros and cons

Post by kcuf_oohay_666 » Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:13 pm

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Stu" wrote:
> > PS I still say leave the screen there, and I'm right.
I agree! one thing to note. The the maximum air flow is only needed when the piston is at the midpoint of travel in the cylinder during the intake stroke and at full RPM. Maybe about 30 degrees out of a total of 720 degree in a 4 stroke motor

bigfatgreenbike
Posts: 814
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:24 pm

airbox screen - pros and cons

Post by bigfatgreenbike » Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:52 pm

THESQUASHER@... wrote:
>--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Stu" wrote: > > >>PS I still say leave the screen there, and I'm right. >> >> > > > >I agree! > >one thing to note. The the maximum air flow is only needed when the >piston is at the midpoint of travel in the cylinder during the intake >stroke and at full RPM. Maybe about 30 degrees out of a total of 720 >degree in a 4 stroke motor > >
Here's a question- since so many people insist on the ass-dyno, which ends up being biased heavily depending on how much time or money you put into a mod, how do you explain the big reported increase in "response"? As I grasp it, the slide lifts because the difference in air pressure between the intake tract (and the inside of the slide, through the port in the bottom) and the airbox side of the carb. If you have a restriction that maintains a vacuum upstream of the carb, wouldn't this slow the slide lift? -- Devon Brooklyn, NY A15-Z '01 KLR650 '81 SR500 cafe racer "The truth's not too popular these days....." Arnold Schwarzenneger, in The Running Man

thad_carey
Posts: 264
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 10:53 am

airbox screen - pros and cons

Post by thad_carey » Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:00 pm

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Stu" wrote:
> --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "thad_carey"
wrote:
> > Stu, I gotta disagree with you on at least a couple of > issues. > > OK > > > In the worst and dustiest events, some nearly 100 > > actual ground miles, I never clogged the filter during the event
to
> a > SNIP > > I saw one clog on LA-B-V, a 500 mile 2 day event. We ride 150 miles > before lunch both days. Another on a 100+ mile dual sport run in > Ocotillo Wells, very fine sandy conditions that I compoiunded by > burying my KLR up to the swingarm in a sand wash and roosting and > digging for 1 hr trying to climb out of the damn thing. The 3rd was > in Utah, My XR was already running way rich due to the altitude and > the K&N's minor clogging just killed the rest of the power. > > > I've got K&Ns on just about every vehicle that I can get > > them for, including a 180,000 mile '89 full-size GMC Jimmy 4X4. > When > > Me too, every STREET vehicle. > > SNIP > Now if you have a good aftermarket pipe, high-flow air > > filter, and proper jetting, you can attain a noticeable power > > increase. > > Prove it. > Dyno numbers talk, bullshit walks. > > > Here's one thing that's very positive and absolutely > > certain about the airbox mod--it's relatively free. > > Here's another thing, it's irreversable. > > > Thad Carey > > A15 (but lookin' like Barbie) > > Thanks > CA Stu A13 (but looks like an A14) (no kidding) > > PS I still say leave the screen there, and I'm right.
Gee, Stu...without a dyno test, it's good to see you're so right. Still don't understand your concern about the mod being irreversible. So? The airbox isn't trashed after the mod--nothing lost but a little time even if one doesn't "feel" the difference. I appreciate you comment about the high mileage events you mention, but it doesn't always necessarily relate to the same amount of dust between dissimilar events. BS walks, eh?...Well, I thought that was the whole point of why we both discussed the desire for dyno info. Is that a dyno in your pants, or are you just...well, you know the rest of it--LOL! BTW, was the A13 the blue model? Thad Carey A15 (Barbie lookin' for a dyno in Malibu)

Chris
Posts: 1250
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:57 am

airbox screen - pros and cons

Post by Chris » Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:01 pm

On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 04:13:13AM -0000, kcuf_oohay_666 wrote:
> one thing to note. The the maximum air flow is only needed when the > piston is at the midpoint of travel in the cylinder during the intake > stroke and at full RPM. Maybe about 30 degrees out of a total of 720 > degree in a 4 stroke motor
Hmm, if we could then tie a string from the crank to a little trap door on the airbox..... I wonder if AMA is selling a kit for that yet? -- ___ ______ _____ __ ________ ___ / _ |< < / == / ___/__ / /_ /_ __/ / __ ____ _ ___ /__ \ / __ |/ // / ****/ (_ / _ \/ __/ / / / _ \/ // / ' \/ _ \ /__/ /_/ |_/_//_/ == \___/\___/\__/ /_/ /_//_/\_,_/_/_/_/ .__/ (_) 8600 miles*Russel Lines*Supertrapp Race* /_/ http://www.panix.com/~cesser/mybike/

bigfatgreenbike
Posts: 814
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:24 pm

airbox screen - pros and cons

Post by bigfatgreenbike » Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:12 pm

kingsqueak@... wrote:
>On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 04:13:13AM -0000, kcuf_oohay_666 wrote: > > >>one thing to note. The the maximum air flow is only needed when the >>piston is at the midpoint of travel in the cylinder during the intake >>stroke and at full RPM. Maybe about 30 degrees out of a total of 720 >>degree in a 4 stroke motor >> >> > >Hmm, if we could then tie a string from the crank to a little trap >door on the airbox..... I wonder if AMA is selling a kit for that >yet? > > >
Only if Happy-Trails or Dual-Star designs it first. -- Devon Brooklyn, NY A15-Z '01 KLR650 '81 SR500 cafe racer "The truth's not too popular these days....." Arnold Schwarzenneger, in The Running Man

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