cyclebrakes oversized rotor: (was: newbie upgrade questions ...)

[Stu]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "gpokluda" wrote:

> --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Mumford"

> wrote: > > Here is a scenario for you to ponder. Guy goes to local bike

shop,

> tries on > > every Arai they have, finds one he likes, goes straight home and > orders it > > online. Now I know none of us would ever do that... > > I hope your tonque was firmly planted in your cheek when you wrote > that because it happens all of the time and I know for a fact that

it

> has happened more than once at my shop. When I carried KBC

helmets,

> a fellow came in to check out the Wolf helmet in black chrome.

Found

> the size that fitted, looked in the mirroer for about 5 minutes,

took

> it off and left. Showed up a few weeks later with a brand new

black

> chrome KBC Wolf that he boasted he got on line for a great price, > then felt insulted when I didn't share his enthusiasm. The list

goes

> on and on. > > That's the price of owning a dealership and I'm willing to pay for > it, but the consumer who engages in such practices should not whine > when they get a raw deal from a dealership or independent shop. > > What goes around, comes around. Sorry, that's just life. > > Gino > www.rvmc.com

Yeah, I was pointing out what everyone on the list knows is true, wheter they admit it or not. I just don't believe that a lot of people think through the consequences of actions like that. Read "The 5 Rings", what would happen if everyone did what you're considering?" I'll just throw out one piece of trash on the freeway, it won't make any difference." What if everyone did it? A big freakin' trask pile on the side of the road, that's what. "I'll just go to the dealer and try on a helmet, then buy it online." What if everyone did it? CA Stu

[Stu]

Steve, you're the exception that proves the rule. Is Fay Myers one of those "cycle superstores"? Ya know, staffed by teenagers? Maybe you'd be happier at a store run by enthusiasts like yourself. I do have one idea for ya. Take a trip to London, and go visit On Yer Triumph. I'm sure my old man would hook you rigth up... Just trying to help CA Stu PS as far as fit, I wear a 7 3/8 hat, and my "L" Arai Quantum/e fits my head perfectly. I just had the old geezer pick me up a L TourCross and bring it out with him last year.

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Green" wrote: > > Stu, > > I hear ya and do agree. However our biggest dealer in Denver and > many of the others are so lame & greedy that it makes me not want to > ever do business with them. > > Just before I met up with you in CO I ordered a new shield for my > Arai Signet. I even brought in the old shield complete with part > numbers on the original Arai bag . Since it is an 8 year old Arai > they made me pay for it up front ($54) and wait 2 weeks for it to > arrive. They called to tell me it was here so I drove a 45 minutes > each way down to the store (Fay Myers) only to find they had a > totally different shield in hand. Now how is that possible > considering they had all the info direct from Arai? Lame Lame lame, > and you think I would trust them to fit a helmet on my head?! > No way Jose I trust myself more. Well I guess a dealer it will have > to be if I want a new XD. Can't wait to see what they order & charge > me. > > Steve

[Steve Green]

Gino, I realize you are coming from a "Dealer's" point of view and I can appreciate that the behaviour you describe may be unfair to you the store owner. Situations like the one described by Stu and you would not happened if very high mark-ups were not placed on the helmets and other items (i.e. tires) at dealers. In the past did mail order houses pay less for Arai helmets? If so, who's fault was that?... Arai's fault that's who's. And if everyone pays the same wholesale price why can't the local dealer be satisfied with a marginally higher but not exorbitantly higher price than the mail orders places? Many customers are going to behave how you described, when the same Arai at the dealer for $529 is available mail order for $299.00 - 77% higher price. Or maybe a TKC 80 rear that costs $90 mail order and is $155 at the local store - 72% more here in Denver. Maybe the customer would have bought the helmet from you if the price was closer to the mail order price. Doesn't have to be equal mind you just closer in price. Saying - "what comes around goes around" and giving a "raw deal" the next time will not make that customer happy, and only alienate him more. Not good business practice even if he did try helmets on in your store and bought it mail order. Maybe it would be better to say to the customer: "next time show me what you can get it for mail order and let me see the kind of deal I can give before ordering". If you want more customers/business you have to give: competitive prices good quality good service good attitude When the same products are available from many sources, price, convenience and service become the main factors. The quality is a constant. Equal helmets or tires are all the same mail order or local store bought. Customers will pay some premium to obtain the product immediately at a local store that gives good friendly service. However there is a limit to how much more they will pay for that. Is it necessary to charge 30%, 40%, 50% or even more over the mail order places? My aim here is not to upset you as a dealer, but to explain a few points I think your reply to Stu's mail-order-helmet-scenario overlooked. Respectfully, Steve G

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "gpokluda" wrote: > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Mumford" > wrote: > > Here is a scenario for you to ponder. Guy goes to local bike shop, > tries on > > every Arai they have, finds one he likes, goes straight home and > orders it > > online. Now I know none of us would ever do that... > > I hope your tonque was firmly planted in your cheek when you wrote > that because it happens all of the time and I know for a fact that it > has happened more than once at my shop. When I carried KBC helmets, > a fellow came in to check out the Wolf helmet in black chrome. Found > the size that fitted, looked in the mirroer for about 5 minutes, took > it off and left. Showed up a few weeks later with a brand new black > chrome KBC Wolf that he boasted he got on line for a great price, > then felt insulted when I didn't share his enthusiasm. The list goes > on and on. > > That's the price of owning a dealership and I'm willing to pay for > it, but the consumer who engages in such practices should not whine > when they get a raw deal from a dealership or independent shop. > > What goes around, comes around. Sorry, that's just life. > > Gino > www.rvmc.com

[Fred Hink]

Steve, Your perception that all dealers pay the same price for all items is wrong. Do you ever wonder why Wal-Mart has their prices so low? It is because they buy their products in mass quantities. My costs are more than those Mega Mail Order Houses. They buy their merchandise much cheaper than I can because they sell much more than I do. Most mail order places can sell tires cheaper than my cost. Cutting retail prices will only kill the small dealers or enthusiasts trying to make a living. Someday you are going to need that shop while traveling around on a Sunday. Is the Mega Mail Order House going to open their shop to help a wayward traveler, I think not. The biggest problem I see with some customers is, they have a defensive posture already before they even say their first words. Having the idea that the merchant / customer relationship has to be confrontational, usually never benefits anyone. Relax, enjoy your stay at the bike shop and I think you will find a wealth of information, lots of goodies to look over and all the free advice you will need. Give the shop owner his fair profit as we like what we are doing but we don't do it for our health. I respect your thoughtfulness on this subject but I just wanted to point out that all dealers are not on a level playing surface. Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/cmc.html

----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Green" To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:25 PM Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: Arai Sales nklr > Gino, > > I realize you are coming from a "Dealer's" point of view and I can > appreciate that the behaviour you describe may be unfair to you the > store owner. > > Situations like the one described by Stu and you would not happened > if very high mark-ups were not placed on the helmets and other items > (i.e. tires) at dealers. > > In the past did mail order houses pay less for Arai helmets? If so, > who's fault was that?... Arai's fault that's who's. > And if everyone pays the same wholesale price why can't the local > dealer be satisfied with a marginally higher but not exorbitantly > higher price than the mail orders places? > > Many customers are going to behave how you described, when the same > Arai at the dealer for $529 is available mail order for $299.00 - 77% > higher price. > Or maybe a TKC 80 rear that costs $90 mail order and is $155 at the > local store - 72% more here in Denver. > > Maybe the customer would have bought the helmet from you if the price > was closer to the mail order price. Doesn't have to be equal mind you > just closer in price. > > Saying - "what comes around goes around" and giving a "raw deal" the > next time will not make that customer happy, and only alienate him > more. Not good business practice even if he did try helmets on in > your store and bought it mail order. > > Maybe it would be better to say to the customer: "next time show me > what you can get it for mail order and let me see the kind of deal I > can give before ordering". > > If you want more customers/business you have to give: > competitive prices > good quality > good service > good attitude > > When the same products are available from many sources, price, > convenience and service become the main factors. The quality is a > constant. Equal helmets or tires are all the same mail order or local > store bought. > > Customers will pay some premium to obtain the product immediately at > a local store that gives good friendly service. However there is a > limit to how much more they will pay for that. Is it necessary to > charge 30%, 40%, 50% or even more over the mail order places? > > My aim here is not to upset you as a dealer, but to explain a few > points I think your reply to Stu's mail-order-helmet-scenario > overlooked. > > Respectfully, Steve G >

[dooden]

If you paid for it up front, why did'nt they just send it to you, and save you the trip ? Dooden A15 Green Ape

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Green" wrote: > > Stu, > > I hear ya and do agree. However our biggest dealer in Denver and > many of the others are so lame & greedy that it makes me not want to > ever do business with them. > > Just before I met up with you in CO I ordered a new shield for my > Arai Signet. I even brought in the old shield complete with part > numbers on the original Arai bag . Since it is an 8 year old Arai > they made me pay for it up front ($54) and wait 2 weeks for it to > arrive. They called to tell me it was here so I drove a 45 minutes > each way down to the store (Fay Myers) only to find they had a > totally different shield in hand. Now how is that possible > considering they had all the info direct from Arai? Lame Lame lame, > and you think I would trust them to fit a helmet on my head?! > No way Jose I trust myself more. Well I guess a dealer it will have > to be if I want a new XD. Can't wait to see what they order & charge > me. > > Steve > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Mumford" > wrote: > > As a consumer, I think it sucks too, but as a professional > marketer, I have > > to give Arai some kind of props for trying to protect it's retail > network. > > > > Here is a scenario for you to ponder. Guy goes to local bike shop, > tries on > > every Arai they have, finds one he likes, goes straight home and > orders it > > online. Now I know none of us would ever do that, but if a bunch of > people > > did, the reailers would never sell another helmet, get hosed with a > bunch of > > costly inventory they'd never sell, and Arai would get stuck > selling all of > > it's helmets mail order, and getting a massive amount of returned > > merchandise. End result??? > > > > If you're prepared to invest a chunk of cash in a helmet, you bet > you want > > the damn thing to fit exactly right. > > Go buy a quality Arai helmet retail, be happy with it for years to > come. > > > > It's only money, you can always earn more. > > > > I suppose it's easy for me to pontificate, seeing how I already > have a > > TourCross. > > > > 1000 apologies, > > CA Stu > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Keith Saltzer" > > > Subject: Re: Arai Sales nklr > > > > > > HERE HERE!..........Yea.........What he said. > > > > > > > > > MrMoose > > > > > > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Green" > wrote: > > > > > > > > Why Arai does not sell their new helmets via mail order or the > > > > internet according to Roger B. Weston, President of Arai North & > > > > South American operations: > > > > > > > > "to optimize the possibility that each and every Arai customer > gets > > > > exactly what they are entitled to in terms of fit, size, > comfort, > > > > noise levels, and the helmet's ability to do its job". In Arai's > > > > view, the best way for this to happen is when the specific > helmet a > > > > rider is buying is fit to that rider's head by someone > experienced > > > in > > > > sizing and fitting helmets." > > > > > > > > Yeah right like any moron in any dealer is going to know more > that > > > > the experienced riders on this list. I for one have yet to find > > > > knowlegeable helmet fitters in a single dealer here in Denver. > > > > The above is a BS excuse for cutting out the competition and > making > > > > more profit. > > > > > > > > A BIG THUMB DOWN TO ARAI and there lame excuses! > > > > > > > > They should at least be honest enough to tell the truth here. > > > > It's too bad they make such good helmets and have such bad > > > marketing > > > > practices and high prices at the local dealers. > > > > > > > > Steve G who wants a new XD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Inwoods650@a... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Guess it's been awhile since I've looked into getting a new > lid. > > > > Can forget > > > > > getting an Arai XD thru MAW, or any other internet based > store. > > > > Following sums > > > > > up Arai's new (to me) sales policy. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.helmetharbor.com/arai_issue/arai_policy_change.htm > > > > > > > > > > Scott > > > > > A14 "thunderdog" > > > > > Sorrento, FL > > >

[gpokluda]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Green" wrote:

> > I realize you are coming from a "Dealer's" point of view and I can > appreciate that the behaviour you describe may be unfair to you the > store owner.

I really don't care much for the term "unfair" as it falls into the same category as "victim" and "deserve". I prefer to think I earn business from customers.

> In the past did mail order houses pay less for Arai helmets? If so, > who's fault was that?... Arai's fault that's who's.

Not exactly. Many mail order warehouses and some large chains like Cycle Gear are given the opportunity to purchase end lots at greatly reduced prices from distributors such as Parts Unlimited and Tucker Rocky. Arai, like many other manufacturers such as First Gear are beginning to either set a low limit on adverstised price or not allow mail order sales.

> And if everyone pays the same wholesale price why can't the local > dealer be satisfied with a marginally higher but not exorbitantly > higher price than the mail orders places?

Because we have something called "overhead", the expenses we incur keeping a storfront open so cusomters can come in a try on our helmets that we invested in and then mail order them at a lower price.

> Maybe the customer would have bought the helmet from you if the

price

> was closer to the mail order price. Doesn't have to be equal mind

you

> just closer in price. >

I seriously doubt it. The perception that mail order is better is deeply embedded in the consumers mindset. I love the look on customers faces when they bring me a mail order tire to mount for them. Buy a tire from me and mounting anf balancing is free. Bring me a tire to mount and balance from someplace else and, well let's say it would have been much cheaper to buy a tire from me.

> Saying - "what comes around goes around" and giving a "raw deal"

the

> next time will not make that customer happy, and only alienate him > more. Not good business practice even if he did try helmets on in > your store and bought it mail order.

First and foremost, customers are human just like dealers (who would have thought dealers were human?)and deserve respect and courtesy. Secondly, customers are an investment and some investments are better than others. That's business.

> > Maybe it would be better to say to the customer: "next time show me > what you can get it for mail order and let me see the kind of deal

I

> can give before ordering".

Sorry, we don't play the pricing game. I'm not going to negotiate the price on a can of chain lube. I will work with a customer on large purchases and offer value added benefits like free tire repair or lifetime balancing when a set of tires or purchased, but this isn't some Mexican Mercardo.

> > If you want more customers/business you have to give: > competitive prices > good quality > good service > good attitude >

All good points, but wrong order. Great service Great attitude Great value are what keep your doors open.

> My aim here is not to upset you as a dealer, but to explain a few > points I think your reply to Stu's mail-order-helmet-scenario > overlooked.

Always glad to get the perspective from the other side of the counter. Cheers Gino www.rvmc.com

[Don Bittle]

I've noticed that around here, retailers will sometimes meet catalog prices. Sometimes they have to be asked, but often, they advertise it. Doesn't hurt to ask. It is always worth paying a "bit" more to buy locally. don

[Arden Kysely]

$155 for a TKC-80? The rear 130/80 cost me $98.00 at my local independent shop in a SoCal area much smaller than Denver. Mile-high city = mile-high prices? As for mail order prices being lower, one reason is called "volume". A mail order house can afford to make less on each helmet they sell when they shove 100 units a day out the door. A dealer is probably lucky to sell a few each week. I'd wager a dealer's floor space is more expensive that the mail order firm's warehouse, too. And every minute a prospective buyer chats up a dealer's employee is a minute the dealer has to pay for in salary. __Arden

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Green" wrote: > Gino, > > I realize you are coming from a "Dealer's" point of view and I can > appreciate that the behaviour you describe may be unfair to you the > store owner. > > Situations like the one described by Stu and you would not happened > if very high mark-ups were not placed on the helmets and other items > (i.e. tires) at dealers. > > In the past did mail order houses pay less for Arai helmets? If so, > who's fault was that?... Arai's fault that's who's. > And if everyone pays the same wholesale price why can't the local > dealer be satisfied with a marginally higher but not exorbitantly > higher price than the mail orders places? > > Many customers are going to behave how you described, when the same > Arai at the dealer for $529 is available mail order for $299.00 - 77% > higher price. > Or maybe a TKC 80 rear that costs $90 mail order and is $155 at the > local store - 72% more here in Denver. > > Maybe the customer would have bought the helmet from you if the price > was closer to the mail order price. Doesn't have to be equal mind you > just closer in price. > > Saying - "what comes around goes around" and giving a "raw deal" the > next time will not make that customer happy, and only alienate him > more. Not good business practice even if he did try helmets on in > your store and bought it mail order. > > Maybe it would be better to say to the customer: "next time show me > what you can get it for mail order and let me see the kind of deal I > can give before ordering". > > If you want more customers/business you have to give: > competitive prices > good quality > good service > good attitude > > When the same products are available from many sources, price, > convenience and service become the main factors. The quality is a > constant. Equal helmets or tires are all the same mail order or local > store bought. > > Customers will pay some premium to obtain the product immediately at > a local store that gives good friendly service. However there is a > limit to how much more they will pay for that. Is it necessary to > charge 30%, 40%, 50% or even more over the mail order places? > > My aim here is not to upset you as a dealer, but to explain a few > points I think your reply to Stu's mail-order-helmet-scenario > overlooked. > > Respectfully, Steve G > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "gpokluda" wrote: > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Mumford" > > > wrote: > > > Here is a scenario for you to ponder. Guy goes to local bike > shop, > > tries on > > > every Arai they have, finds one he likes, goes straight home and > > orders it > > > online. Now I know none of us would ever do that... > > > > I hope your tonque was firmly planted in your cheek when you wrote > > that because it happens all of the time and I know for a fact that > it > > has happened more than once at my shop. When I carried KBC > helmets, > > a fellow came in to check out the Wolf helmet in black chrome. > Found > > the size that fitted, looked in the mirroer for about 5 minutes, > took > > it off and left. Showed up a few weeks later with a brand new > black > > chrome KBC Wolf that he boasted he got on line for a great price, > > then felt insulted when I didn't share his enthusiasm. The list > goes > > on and on. > > > > That's the price of owning a dealership and I'm willing to pay for > > it, but the consumer who engages in such practices should not whine > > when they get a raw deal from a dealership or independent shop. > > > > What goes around, comes around. Sorry, that's just life. > > > > Gino > > www.rvmc.com

[paulb_pcg]

Having had Fred open his shop two Sunday's ago to get our two limping bikes back to safe operating levels, you can bet I did not ask the price of any of the parts I was putting on - only that Fred was home and opened up to fix our problem! I order everything I can from Fred - and that is not to say I am immune from price shopping - but I sure try to support the guy who supports me! Paul Fireball's Thumper (still going strong at 76k!)

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hink" wrote: > Steve, > > Your perception that all dealers pay the same price for all items is wrong. > Do you ever wonder why Wal-Mart has their prices so low? It is because they > buy their products in mass quantities. My costs are more than those Mega > Mail Order Houses. They buy their merchandise much cheaper than I can > because they sell much more than I do. Most mail order places can sell > tires cheaper than my cost. Cutting retail prices will only kill the small > dealers or enthusiasts trying to make a living. Someday you are going to > need that shop while traveling around on a Sunday. Is the Mega Mail Order > House going to open their shop to help a wayward traveler, I think not. > > The biggest problem I see with some customers is, they have a defensive > posture already before they even say their first words. Having the idea > that the merchant / customer relationship has to be confrontational, usually > never benefits anyone. Relax, enjoy your stay at the bike shop and I think > you will find a wealth of information, lots of goodies to look over and all > the free advice you will need. Give the shop owner his fair profit as we > like what we are doing but we don't do it for our health. > > I respect your thoughtfulness on this subject but I just wanted to point out > that all dealers are not on a level playing surface. > > Fred > http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/cmc.html > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Green" > To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:25 PM > Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: Arai Sales nklr > > > > Gino, > > > > I realize you are coming from a "Dealer's" point of view and I can > > appreciate that the behaviour you describe may be unfair to you the > > store owner. > > > > Situations like the one described by Stu and you would not happened > > if very high mark-ups were not placed on the helmets and other items > > (i.e. tires) at dealers. > > > > In the past did mail order houses pay less for Arai helmets? If so, > > who's fault was that?... Arai's fault that's who's. > > And if everyone pays the same wholesale price why can't the local > > dealer be satisfied with a marginally higher but not exorbitantly > > higher price than the mail orders places? > > > > Many customers are going to behave how you described, when the same > > Arai at the dealer for $529 is available mail order for $299.00 - 77% > > higher price. > > Or maybe a TKC 80 rear that costs $90 mail order and is $155 at the > > local store - 72% more here in Denver. > > > > Maybe the customer would have bought the helmet from you if the price > > was closer to the mail order price. Doesn't have to be equal mind you > > just closer in price. > > > > Saying - "what comes around goes around" and giving a "raw deal" the > > next time will not make that customer happy, and only alienate him > > more. Not good business practice even if he did try helmets on in > > your store and bought it mail order. > > > > Maybe it would be better to say to the customer: "next time show me > > what you can get it for mail order and let me see the kind of deal I > > can give before ordering". > > > > If you want more customers/business you have to give: > > competitive prices > > good quality > > good service > > good attitude > > > > When the same products are available from many sources, price, > > convenience and service become the main factors. The quality is a > > constant. Equal helmets or tires are all the same mail order or local > > store bought. > > > > Customers will pay some premium to obtain the product immediately at > > a local store that gives good friendly service. However there is a > > limit to how much more they will pay for that. Is it necessary to > > charge 30%, 40%, 50% or even more over the mail order places? > > > > My aim here is not to upset you as a dealer, but to explain a few > > points I think your reply to Stu's mail-order-helmet-scenario > > overlooked. > > > > Respectfully, Steve G > >

[Herm Halbach]

Just My two cents: Fred and Gino represent something that most business people do not, "COMMUNITY". I will pay extra for caring quality that I can only receive from community businesses. In fact, I will NEVER pay below dealer's cost to fulfill my own immediate gratification oriented greed. I want my customer/business relationship to be mutually supporting. I get a deal, today, and pay so low that the dealer can not remain in business then I don't get that deal (or any support) from that dealer tomorrow. I will pay all that I can to keep my community businesses thriving because they are part of my support structure. They go away and my structure weakens. That is the strength we all feel on this list ... the strength derived from community ... the strength derived from resources. We all are able to save money by doing our own maintenance because of this community's support. I, personally, love to ride my bike. I love to do that more than maintaining it, though the occasional caressing my beloved "Paint" is kind of sweet to. If I could, I would have my live-in mechanic constantly keeping my ride in perfect condition, alas, I can't. I depend on Fred, Gino, all the other supporting businesses, "the many Marks", and all of you as part of my support structure in order that I might continue to have that occasionally perfect ride. I thank you all for that support but I have to thank even more those that can actually provide the parts I need to maintain a functional machine. Gino has very well expressed what it takes to stay one of our caring community suppliers, thanks Gino. Fred has bent over backwards from his Utah community and his Net community to demonstrate to all of us service above and beyond the call of duty. (Fred, don't read the next sentence) Because of Fred's diligence I don't even compare his prices to any other but simply see if Arrowhead has what I want and order it with PayPal(Fred, you can read on now). Thank you, again, Fred for your service and much more than free advice you offer to all of us! The seemingly best deal out there isn't always the best deal for me. Arai owes us nothing and can choose to do what they think is the best they can do to remain a viable business. That does mean that they better service their potential and present customers. I can live without their helmet but I can't live without honest, ethical and long lasting service from the dealers I choose to do business with. They are more dependent on my choices than I am on theirs (unless they all happen to be providing gas in the Phoenix area, then I might have to choose a solar KLR). It's only money unless it is the only considered form of exchange necessary to maintain my survival support structure. I want to survive and will spend, more than necessary, what it takes to keep that support structure healthy. Just my two cents! Herm A15 "Paint" At 03:01 PM 8-21-03 +0000, you wrote:

>Having had Fred open his shop two Sunday's ago to get our two limping >bikes back to safe operating levels, you can bet I did not ask the >price of any of the parts I was putting on - only that Fred was home >and opened up to fix our problem! > >I order everything I can from Fred - and that is not to say I am >immune from price shopping - but I sure try to support the guy who >supports me! > >Paul >Fireball's Thumper (still going strong at 76k!) > > >--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hink" wrote: > > Steve, > > > > Your perception that all dealers pay the same price for all items is >wrong. > > Do you ever wonder why Wal-Mart has their prices so low? It is >because they > > buy their products in mass quantities. My costs are more than those >Mega > > Mail Order Houses. They buy their merchandise much cheaper than I >can > > because they sell much more than I do. Most mail order places can >sell > > tires cheaper than my cost. Cutting retail prices will only kill >the small > > dealers or enthusiasts trying to make a living. Someday you are >going to > > need that shop while traveling around on a Sunday. Is the Mega Mail >Order > > House going to open their shop to help a wayward traveler, I think >not. > > > > The biggest problem I see with some customers is, they have a >defensive > > posture already before they even say their first words. Having the >idea > > that the merchant / customer relationship has to be confrontational, >usually > > never benefits anyone. Relax, enjoy your stay at the bike shop and >I think > > you will find a wealth of information, lots of goodies to look over >and all > > the free advice you will need. Give the shop owner his fair profit >as we > > like what we are doing but we don't do it for our health. > > > > I respect your thoughtfulness on this subject but I just wanted to >point out > > that all dealers are not on a level playing surface. > > > > Fred > > http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/cmc.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve Green" > > To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 11:25 PM > > Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: Arai Sales nklr > > > > > > > Gino, > > > > > > I realize you are coming from a "Dealer's" point of view and I can > > > appreciate that the behaviour you describe may be unfair to you >the > > > store owner. > > > > > > Situations like the one described by Stu and you would not >happened > > > if very high mark-ups were not placed on the helmets and other >items > > > (i.e. tires) at dealers. > > > > > > In the past did mail order houses pay less for Arai helmets? If >so, > > > who's fault was that?... Arai's fault that's who's. > > > And if everyone pays the same wholesale price why can't the local > > > dealer be satisfied with a marginally higher but not exorbitantly > > > higher price than the mail orders places? > > > > > > Many customers are going to behave how you described, when the >same > > > Arai at the dealer for $529 is available mail order for $299.00 - >77% > > > higher price. > > > Or maybe a TKC 80 rear that costs $90 mail order and is $155 at >the > > > local store - 72% more here in Denver. > > > > > > Maybe the customer would have bought the helmet from you if the >price > > > was closer to the mail order price. Doesn't have to be equal mind >you > > > just closer in price. > > > > > > Saying - "what comes around goes around" and giving a "raw deal" >the > > > next time will not make that customer happy, and only alienate him > > > more. Not good business practice even if he did try helmets on in > > > your store and bought it mail order. > > > > > > Maybe it would be better to say to the customer: "next time show >me > > > what you can get it for mail order and let me see the kind of deal >I > > > can give before ordering". > > > > > > If you want more customers/business you have to give: > > > competitive prices > > > good quality > > > good service > > > good attitude > > > > > > When the same products are available from many sources, price, > > > convenience and service become the main factors. The quality is a > > > constant. Equal helmets or tires are all the same mail order or >local > > > store bought. > > > > > > Customers will pay some premium to obtain the product immediately >at > > > a local store that gives good friendly service. However there is a > > > limit to how much more they will pay for that. Is it necessary to > > > charge 30%, 40%, 50% or even more over the mail order places? > > > > > > My aim here is not to upset you as a dealer, but to explain a few > > > points I think your reply to Stu's mail-order-helmet-scenario > > > overlooked. > > > > > > Respectfully, Steve G > > > > > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ >courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: >DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/