lean surge

[Tammy - KLR650]

David, The best way not to get hit is not to be around, I almost never hit the brakes I hit the gas and get the hell out of there, 30+ yr's riding and never been hit by a car... But that's not going to help much when someone hits you from the rear, and that seem to be the new thing today, so until they pass a law that locks people up for killing biker "I think AMA is working on something like this" you best keep an eye on your mirrors when you stop.. I joke about killing my ex's by running them over with a car "there is only 1 ex and I never killed him" and the sad part is you can and get away with it, I believe people in cars just don't see bikers as people and to kill one is the as as hitting a dog, I feel bad but it was only a dog no big lost....................................... *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 4/21/2003 at 1:27 PM david gay wrote: >The best defense will always be a good offense, and never ever, never >ever, ever, look the driver in the eyes. They'll make perfect eye contact >with you and then proceed the run your ass over. Always watch the front >bumper or better yet front wheel, if they start moving you start playing >defense fast. 31 yrs, only one accident with a car,and it was my fault. >Let's just say alcohol was involved and leave it at that. Dave A12 > >Jim wrote:I think if you are driving around with the >assumption that the >headlight modulator, orange vest, blinkers, neon, running lights, >hi-viz jacket, etc are going to 'make you more visible' than you are >just asking for it. Does it help? Sure but it's not a miracle cure. > >I have enough close calls in my big truck to not even second guess >things when I'm on the bike. I drive aggressively, monitor my mirrors, >and do what I have to (legally or not legally) to either make them >notice me or just get the hell out of their way. > >Between cell phones and TV's in the car and just complete >stupidity I wonder why there aren't more fatal car accidents... > >And around here (NC) following someone home would be an invitation to >getting shot. > >jim > > >On Monday, April 21, 2003, aregata4x4 wrote: >> to the right. He was sitting on the red light and she just run right >> over him - claiming that she did not see him! How can you not see a >> big motorcycle in front of you? > > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ >courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: >DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ >courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: >DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Arden Kysely]

I'm with you, Tammy on a couple of points: lock 'em up for running us over, and use the throttle. That twist grip is your ticket to safety more often than the brakes. In the meantime, I think I'll order up a set of Life Brites, but keep checking my six. Unfortunately, it's pretty easy at the end of a long day to let down your guard and space out while you wait for the light to change. __Arden --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Tammy - KLR650" wrote:

> David, > The best way not to get hit is not to be around, I almost never hit

the brakes I hit the gas and get the hell out of there, 30+ yr's riding and never been hit by a car...

> But that's not going to help much when someone hits you from the

rear, and that seem to be the new thing today, so until they pass a law that locks people up for

> killing biker "I think AMA is working on something like this" you

best keep an eye on your mirrors when you stop.. I joke about killing my ex's by running them over with a car "there is only 1 ex and I never killed him" and the sad part is you can and get away with it, I believe people in cars just don't see bikers as people and to kill one is the as as hitting a dog, I feel bad but it was only a dog no big lost.......................................

> > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 4/21/2003 at 1:27 PM david gay wrote: > > >The best defense will always be a good offense, and never ever,

never

> >ever, ever, look the driver in the eyes. They'll make perfect eye

contact

> >with you and then proceed the run your ass over. Always watch

the front

> >bumper or better yet front wheel, if they start moving you start

playing

> >defense fast. 31 yrs, only one accident with a car,and it was my

fault.

> >Let's just say alcohol was involved and leave it at that. Dave

A12

> > > >Jim wrote:I think if you are driving around with the > >assumption that the > >headlight modulator, orange vest, blinkers, neon, running lights, > >hi-viz jacket, etc are going to 'make you more visible' than you

are

> >just asking for it. Does it help? Sure but it's not a miracle cure. > > > >I have enough close calls in my big truck to not even second guess > >things when I'm on the bike. I drive aggressively, monitor my

mirrors,

> >and do what I have to (legally or not legally) to either make them > >notice me or just get the hell out of their way. > > > >Between cell phones and TV's in the car and just complete > >stupidity I wonder why there aren't more fatal car accidents... > > > >And around here (NC) following someone home would be an invitation

to

> >getting shot. > > > >jim > > > > > >On Monday, April 21, 2003, aregata4x4 wrote: > >> to the right. He was sitting on the red light and she just run

right

> >> over him - claiming that she did not see him! How can you not

see a

> >> big motorcycle in front of you? > > > > > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List

FAQ

> >courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > >Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > >DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Do you Yahoo!? > >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List

FAQ

> >courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > >Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > >DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[azman321]

I saw a story on one of the Brit sites a couple of years ago, I wish I had saved it. It described a study about a psychological phenomenon in which some drivers looking at a roadway with a motorcycle in it didn't actually perceive the motorcycle. The psychiatrists doing the study concluded that people sometimes look directly at a motorcycle in a roadway but don't realize it is there because they are subconsciously expecting to see a car or a truck. As a result, they don't 'see' the motorcycle because it's not what they are subconsciously looking for. This would explain the too-common 'But I never saw him' right in front of me, fatal accident. Jett, A15 AZ --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "aregata4x4" wrote:

> Same story here. Last Thursday friend of mine got hit from

behind.

> A woman driver was going about 5-10 mph and wanted to take the turn > to the right. He was sitting on the red light and she just run

right

> over him - claiming that she did not see him! How can you not see

a ...

[Devon Jarvis]

If they first had to spend a few months on a scooter or moped in order to get their automobile license, they'd be looking when they get behind the wheel of a car. I think it was the AMA that sponsored a similar test, I forget the term they used for it. They would have a person watch a video of people playing basketball, and they'd have to count how many times the ball was passed. In the middle of the game a person in a monkey suit would jog right past the camera, and the person watching would just not see it a significant percentage of the time. The moral seems to be, people only see what they're looking for. If they knew their kids might be on that scooter they'd be a little more observant. The problem isn't making the motorcyclist more conspicuous, though that doesn't hurt. The problem is making people realize we exist at all. Oh, and while we're at it, I've been passed by people on big HD's with open pipes. On several occasions, windows up but radio off, I would have knocked someone clean off their bike if I wasn't in the habit of actually turning my head and looking before I change lanes. With the pipes pointed in the other direction I couldn't hear a bike in my blind spot. So don't count on that loud exhaust either. Devon azman321 wrote:

> > I saw a story on one of the Brit sites a couple of years ago, I wish > I had saved it. It described a study about a psychological phenomenon > in which some drivers looking at a roadway with a motorcycle in it > didn't actually perceive the motorcycle. > > The psychiatrists doing the study concluded that people sometimes > look directly at a motorcycle in a roadway but don't realize it is > there because they are subconsciously expecting to see a car or a > truck. As a result, they don't 'see' the motorcycle because it's not > what they are subconsciously looking for. > > This would explain the too-common 'But I never saw him' right in > front of me, fatal accident. > > Jett, A15 AZ >

[Tammy - KLR650]

That is just BS, I seen a clip in a magazine of a lady hitting the side of an 18 wheeler, it had at image of a biker on it and she told the cop Really I did not see that bike Really I did not.. Let's face it when your on your bike your just a dog in the road, so move out of my way before I run you over LOL Like it or not but that's the real world we all live in................................... Tammy. Give me a tank and paint it to look like a bike so I can run them over and tell the cops, Really I did not see that car................... *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 4/21/2003 at 9:29 PM azman321 wrote: >I saw a story on one of the Brit sites a couple of years ago, I wish >I had saved it. It described a study about a psychological phenomenon >in which some drivers looking at a roadway with a motorcycle in it >didn't actually perceive the motorcycle. > >The psychiatrists doing the study concluded that people sometimes >look directly at a motorcycle in a roadway but don't realize it is >there because they are subconsciously expecting to see a car or a >truck. As a result, they don't 'see' the motorcycle because it's not >what they are subconsciously looking for. > >This would explain the too-common 'But I never saw him' right in >front of me, fatal accident. > >Jett, A15 AZ > >--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "aregata4x4" >wrote: >> Same story here. Last Thursday friend of mine got hit from >behind. >> A woman driver was going about 5-10 mph and wanted to take the turn >> to the right. He was sitting on the red light and she just run >right >> over him - claiming that she did not see him! How can you not see >a > >... > > >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ >courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: >DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Conall O'Brien]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "azman321" wrote:

> I saw a story on one of the Brit sites a couple of years ago, I

wish

> I had saved it. It described a study about a psychological

phenomenon

> in which some drivers looking at a roadway with a motorcycle in it > didn't actually perceive the motorcycle. > > The psychiatrists doing the study concluded that people sometimes > look directly at a motorcycle in a roadway but don't realize it is > there because they are subconsciously expecting to see a car or a > truck. As a result, they don't 'see' the motorcycle because it's

not

> what they are subconsciously looking for. > > This would explain the too-common 'But I never saw him' right in > front of me, fatal accident. > > Jett, A15 AZ >

Here are the studies FYI http://www.amadirectlink.com/magazine/2001/story3sept.html http://www.apa.org/monitor/apr01/blindness.html http://www.msgroup.org/DISCUSS.asp Conall--been there, done that ( as a motorcyclist) 93,95 KLR650s

[wefixit4u]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Conall O'Brien" wrote: I recommend everyone take a SMITH SYSTEM defensive driving course. I work for a trucking company and even though I don't drive, I had to take the course and am I thankful I did! I have saved myself from 3 accidents (in car not on bike)in the last 3 years by applying the basic principles of the system. Now that I am biking on the road I am very conscious of applying the principles, or KEYS as they call them. I'm sure you truck drivers know what I am talking about. Some insurance companies will give you a discount if you are Smith trained. In a nutshell: 1. AIM high in steering. (look many vehicles ahead of you, not one) 2.GET the big picture. (be ever aware of your every direction and possible situation, anticipate) 3. KEEP your eyes moving. (my favorite key, your eyes should not focus in one place for more than 3 seconds. look in each mirror ever few seconds and you won't have to worry about getting rearended. Beyond three or four seconds and we begin to stare and trance, the cause of many accidents. I always know how many vehicles are beside me and behind me. 4. LEAVE yourself an out. (examples, middle lane, or in a construction zone use the lane WITHOUT the concrete divide, at a stop leave many feet between yourself and the next vehicle, I do this car or bike, allows you to move forward when you are practicing key #3 and notice in your mirror the the idiot with a cell in one hand and a tube of lipstick in the other is not going to stop before rearing you.) 5. MAKE sure they see you. Make eye contact with close traffic. They are then instantly aware of your presence. Acronym To remember these keys: All Good Kids Love Milk. (maybe silly but it works) Again, this is a quick and dirty explaination. For more info contact a local trucking company or SMITH SYSTEM. I believe they are out of TX. Chris

> --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "azman321"

wrote:

> > I saw a story on one of the Brit sites a couple of years ago, I > wish > > I had saved it. It described a study about a psychological > phenomenon > > in which some drivers looking at a roadway with a motorcycle in

it

> > didn't actually perceive the motorcycle. > > > > The psychiatrists doing the study concluded that people

sometimes

> > look directly at a motorcycle in a roadway but don't realize it

is

> > there because they are subconsciously expecting to see a car or

a

> > truck. As a result, they don't 'see' the motorcycle because it's > not > > what they are subconsciously looking for. > > > > This would explain the too-common 'But I never saw him' right in > > front of me, fatal accident. > > > > Jett, A15 AZ > > > > Here are the studies FYI > > > http://www.amadirectlink.com/magazine/2001/story3sept.html > > http://www.apa.org/monitor/apr01/blindness.html > > http://www.msgroup.org/DISCUSS.asp > > > > Conall--been there, done that ( as a motorcyclist) > 93,95 KLR650s

[kdxkawboy@aol.com]

In a message dated 2003-04-21 10:45:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, priest@... writes:

> > I think if you are driving around with the assumption that the > headlight modulator, orange vest, blinkers, neon, running lights, > hi-viz jacket, etc are going to 'make you more visible' than you are > just asking for it. Does it help? Sure but it's not a miracle cure. > > I have enough close calls in my big truck to not even second guess > things when I'm on the bike. I drive aggressively, monitor my mirrors, > and do what I have to (legally or not legally) to either make them > notice me or just get the hell out of their way. > > Between cell phones and TV's in the car and just complete > stupidity I wonder why there aren't more fatal car accidents... > > And around here (NC) following someone home would be an invitation to > getting shot. > >

That could be the same legal result in Nevada - its called stalking. Pat G'ville, Nv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[kdxkawboy@aol.com]

In a message dated 2003-04-21 1:28:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, davidlg76@... writes:

> > > The best defense will always be a good offense, and never ever, never ever, > ever, look the driver in the eyes. They'll make perfect eye contact with > you and then proceed the run your ass over. Always watch the front bumper > or better yet front wheel, if they start moving you start playing defense > fast. 31 yrs, only one accident with a car,and it was my fault. Let's > just say alcohol was involved and leave it at that. Dave A12 > >

WIth cagers you should be looking at the front wheel to gauge their intentions - where it points the cage will go when the wheel starts rolling. You might see a cager cranking the steering wheel but you will never see what their feet are doing, but if you watch that front wheel you will know what they are doing. My only cage versus bike accident was at 6:50 am on a January morning. Still too dark to have seen the tread of the front tire so I wasn't able to tell the oncoming front wheel wasn't stopping until the wheel pointed towards me and there was only a couple of bike lengths between us. Pat G'ville, Nv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[kdxkawboy@aol.com]

In a message dated 2003-04-21 2:06:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, tammy@... writes:

> David, > The best way not to get hit is not to be around, I almost never hit the > brakes I hit the gas and get the hell out of there, 30+ yr's riding and > never been hit by a car... > But that's not going to help much when someone hits you from the rear, and > that seem to be the new thing today, so until they pass a law that locks > people up for > killing biker "I think AMA is working on something like this" you best keep > an eye on your mirrors when you stop.. I joke about killing my ex's by > running them over with a car "there is only 1 ex and I never killed him" > and the sad part is you can and get away with it, I believe people in cars > just don't see bikers as people and to kill one is the as as hitting a dog, > I feel bad but it was only a dog no big > lost....................................... >

Tammy, the AMA is working on that campaign to look folks up for killing motorcyclists, pedestrians, bicyclist, skateboarders and anyone else not in an air bag protected cage when they were hit. It all started when a certain unnamed southern state famous for JD renamed a section of highway after the senator that killed a motorcyclist he killed on that highway - eyewitnesses had identified the senator by his personal plate and reported the senator was drunk yet the state's highway patrol took four hours to visit the senator though the accident happened while the senator was pulling into his driveway. I think they have gotten laws passed in about six states, and they have gotten something around 100 federal senators and representatives to ask for a new federal study into the causes of motorcycle accidents to update the ancient Hurt Report. And you are right, not being in the line of fire is the best way to avoid an accident. My grandpa bombed around the midwest on an Indian Four back in the 30s - grandma never said anything about getting a cage until she was eight months pregnant with mom - and the advice he gave when I started riding as a teenager was, Pat, on a bike you're the prey in a world of predators, don't get caught. Pat G'ville, Nv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]