digest number 3767

[Greg S]

regarding USFS approval.... I'm considering switching to the Laser Pro Duro (street version) mainly because it is quieter than my IDS2 and doesn't require repacking. However I've read nothing that indicates whether they've been USFS approved. The always helpful KLR bible (http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html) indicates they were *not* USFS approved at the time of writing. Anyone know if this has changed? I'd like to run some Dual Sport events and would hate to get bounced because my muffler wasn't approved -- or get a ticket while I'm off-road. Thanks! Greg (All together now with the AMA mantra.... "Quiet pipes save rights.... Quite pipes save rights....") :^)

[zootpatutie]

Loud mufflers do NOT save lives,

> contrary to what RUB's and squids might say... >

RUB's? Raucous Urban Barflies? Really Ugly B..... (oh well, better quit early) Todd

[John Lyon]

The both versions of the LPD (sport and road can) have a spark arrestor BUT they are NOT USFS approved. Both versions: Use the same intermediate pipe Use the same stainless steel can construction. Use stainless steel wool for packing and they cannot be repacked due to their welded construction. The only difference between the two is the internal baffles: The road can uses a offset baffle The sports can uses a straight-through baffle. I have not heard the sports can but from what I know it is louder than the road can I hope to update my LPD web page by the end of the week. http://jlyonamf.tripod.com/LaserProDuro/index.html John Lyon --- Greg S wrote:

> > regarding USFS approval.... > > I'm considering switching to the Laser Pro Duro > (street version) mainly > because it is quieter than my IDS2 and doesn't > require repacking. However > I've read nothing that indicates whether they've > been USFS approved. The > always helpful KLR bible > (http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html) indicates > they were *not* USFS approved at the time of > writing. > > Anyone know if this has changed? I'd like to run > some Dual Sport events and > would hate to get bounced because my muffler wasn't > approved -- or get a > ticket while I'm off-road. > > Thanks! > Greg

===== John __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com

[Conall O'Brien]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Greg S" wrote:

> > regarding USFS approval.... > > I'm considering switching to the Laser Pro Duro (street version)

mainly

> because it is quieter than my IDS2 and doesn't require repacking.

However

> I've read nothing that indicates whether they've been USFS

approved. The

> always helpful KLR bible (http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html)

indicates

> they were *not* USFS approved at the time of writing. > > Anyone know if this has changed? I'd like to run some Dual Sport

events and

> would hate to get bounced because my muffler wasn't approved -- or

get a

> ticket while I'm off-road.

Hi, You ask if the Laser Pro duro may be redesigned for USFS approval. To make a long story short, I think they will redesign them, but don't know although I think someone like Fred Hink @ Arrowhead who distributes Pro duro in the US could find out. My reasoning is that JAMA BV probably wants to be in the US market & to be USFS approved in the states, so they will pretty much have to redesign all the dual sport pipes to comply. So it's possible JAMA Engineering B.V. are redesigning all the enduro/dual sport pipes, not just the KLR. That's what someone in Holland told me. John has good background on JAMA BV at http://jlyonamf.tripod.com/LaserProDuro/ Conall-

> > Thanks! > Greg > (All together now with the AMA mantra.... "Quiet pipes save

rights.... Quite

> pipes save rights....") > > :^)

[Fred Hink]

What makes you think they have to redesign this pipe? It is already spark arrested but they haven't paid the fees and taken the tests. I think there needs to be a ground swell of interest in having the Laser Pro Duro meet USFS approval and since I am only one voice, they should listen to more voices. You can email Jama about the Laser Pro Duro at sales@... Let them know you would be more interested in this pipe if it were to meet the USFS regulations. Thanks! Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/cmc.html

----- Original Message ----- From: "Conall O'Brien" To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 4:32 PM Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: Laser Pro Duro -- Street vs Dirt versions? Whichone? > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Greg S" > wrote: > > > > regarding USFS approval.... > > > > I'm considering switching to the Laser Pro Duro (street version) > mainly > > because it is quieter than my IDS2 and doesn't require repacking. > However > > I've read nothing that indicates whether they've been USFS > approved. The > > always helpful KLR bible (http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html) > indicates > > they were *not* USFS approved at the time of writing. > > > > Anyone know if this has changed? I'd like to run some Dual Sport > events and > > would hate to get bounced because my muffler wasn't approved -- or > get a > > ticket while I'm off-road. > > Hi, > > You ask if the Laser Pro duro may be redesigned for USFS approval. To > make a long story short, I think they will redesign them, but don't > know although I think someone like Fred Hink @ Arrowhead who > distributes Pro duro in the US could find out. My reasoning is that > JAMA BV probably wants to be in the US market & to be USFS approved > in the states, so they will pretty much have to redesign all the dual > sport pipes to comply. So it's possible JAMA Engineering B.V. are > redesigning all the enduro/dual sport pipes, not just the KLR. That's > what someone in Holland told me. > > John has good background on JAMA BV at > > http://jlyonamf.tripod.com/LaserProDuro/ > > Conall-

[Greg S]

Fred (and list), Ironic you should mention emailing them. I posted a comment on their web-site today and they actually responded within 8 hours! Pretty impressive -- even if the answer wasn't what I had hoped. They simply confirmed that the arrestor hasn't been USFS approved and they have no plans at this moment for such an approval. Maybe if others who are considering the upgrade would email them.... -Greg

----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Hink" To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com>; "Conall O'Brien" Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Re: Laser Pro Duro -- Street vs Dirt versions? Whichone? > What makes you think they have to redesign this pipe? It is already spark > arrested but they haven't paid the fees and taken the tests. I think there > needs to be a ground swell of interest in having the Laser Pro Duro meet > USFS approval and since I am only one voice, they should listen to more > voices. You can email Jama about the Laser Pro Duro at sales@... > Let them know you would be more interested in this pipe if it were to meet > the USFS regulations. > > Thanks! > > Fred > http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/cmc.html > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Conall O'Brien" > To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 4:32 PM > Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: Laser Pro Duro -- Street vs Dirt versions? > Whichone? > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, "Greg S" > > wrote: > > > > > > regarding USFS approval.... > > > > > > I'm considering switching to the Laser Pro Duro (street version) > > mainly > > > because it is quieter than my IDS2 and doesn't require repacking. > > However > > > I've read nothing that indicates whether they've been USFS > > approved. The > > > always helpful KLR bible (http://www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html) > > indicates > > > they were *not* USFS approved at the time of writing. > > > > > > Anyone know if this has changed? I'd like to run some Dual Sport > > events and > > > would hate to get bounced because my muffler wasn't approved -- or > > get a > > > ticket while I'm off-road. > > > > Hi, > > > > You ask if the Laser Pro duro may be redesigned for USFS approval. To > > make a long story short, I think they will redesign them, but don't > > know although I think someone like Fred Hink @ Arrowhead who > > distributes Pro duro in the US could find out. My reasoning is that > > JAMA BV probably wants to be in the US market & to be USFS approved > > in the states, so they will pretty much have to redesign all the dual > > sport pipes to comply. So it's possible JAMA Engineering B.V. are > > redesigning all the enduro/dual sport pipes, not just the KLR. That's > > what someone in Holland told me. > > > > John has good background on JAMA BV at > > > > http://jlyonamf.tripod.com/LaserProDuro/ > > > > Conall- > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

[kdxkawboy@aol.com]

Which says that 'legally' these pipes do not have any type of spark arrestor as the law is written that the exhaust must be stamped with its USDA/USFS approval - the approval stamp is the legal definition of proof you have a spark arrestor. Its becoming more and more common for AMA sponsored DS rides to put you through a sound test and spark arrestor inspection before you are aloud to ride If you choose to run the 'technically' illegal LSD pipe and you are questioned by a Ranger, please remember that no matter what you may think or say, without the USDA/USFS certification stamped on the exhaust you do not have a spark arrestor. The law is written such that a legal spark arrestor must have its certification clearly marked so it can be seen without disassembly. BTW, unless marking figures have changed, only 10% of the KLRs sold get used in the dirt on any type of regular basis so why should LSD ever consider the extra expense of getting certified unless you guys stop buying the pipe until such a time as they do. You buy the exhaust as is and you only reinforce the idea that they don't need no stinking spark arrestor certification. Pat G'ville, Nv In a message dated 2003-04-07 11:49:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gregslistacct@... writes:

> > Fred (and list), > > Ironic you should mention emailing them. I posted a comment on their > web-site today and they actually responded within 8 hours! Pretty > impressive -- even if the answer wasn't what I had hoped. They simply > confirmed that the arrestor hasn't been USFS approved and they have no > plans > at this moment for such an approval. > > Maybe if others who are considering the upgrade would email them.... > > -Greg > >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Fred Hink]

The squeaking wheel gets the grease. I would imagine the more information Laser gets about the needs of the US market the better chance we might see a USFS stamp on their pipe. We need to all send Laser our requests and let them know that you would only be interested in their product for your bike if they are USFS approved. Send your comments to: sales@... Thanks for your info Greg. Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/cmc.html

----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg S" To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com>; "Fred Hink" Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Re: Laser Pro Duro -- Street vs Dirt versions? Whichone? > Fred (and list), > > Ironic you should mention emailing them. I posted a comment on their > web-site today and they actually responded within 8 hours! Pretty > impressive -- even if the answer wasn't what I had hoped. They simply > confirmed that the arrestor hasn't been USFS approved and they have no plans > at this moment for such an approval. > > Maybe if others who are considering the upgrade would email them.... > > -Greg > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Hink" > To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com>; "Conall O'Brien" > > Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 5:28 PM > Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Re: Laser Pro Duro -- Street vs Dirt versions? > Whichone? > > > > What makes you think they have to redesign this pipe? It is already spark > > arrested but they haven't paid the fees and taken the tests. I think > there > > needs to be a ground swell of interest in having the Laser Pro Duro meet > > USFS approval and since I am only one voice, they should listen to more > > voices. You can email Jama about the Laser Pro Duro at > sales@... > > Let them know you would be more interested in this pipe if it were to meet > > the USFS regulations. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Fred > > http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com > > http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/cmc.html

[Ted Palmer]

Fred Hink wrote:

> > What makes you think they have to redesign this pipe? It is already spark > arrested but they haven't paid the fees and taken the tests.

[...] This shows Jama's very poor appreciation of the US market requirements. Selling non-USFS approved mufflers for DP bikes in the US simply does not make sense. Hopefully the US distributor can be assisted in convincing Jama that many sales are being lost due to the lack of approval. Mister_T Melbourne Australia

[Fred Hink]

As far as I know the ONLY legal tests the BLM uses here to check for spark arrested mufflers is to run a wooden dowel up the back side to check for blockage. (no comments from Bogdan, please) I know the BLM Ranger here and I will ask him what he looks for when checking a "Legal" bike. Are you saying that only those that ride mostly in the dirt are the ones that will buy a Laser Pro Duro? Your 10% figure has nothing to do with reality. I think most KLRs that are using a Laser Pro Duro are done because they ride on the street more than dirt. Last time I checked, you don't need a spark arrestor to ride on the street. But if there isn't one already, I sure someone will write a law that says to be "legal" you need a spark arrestor while on pavement. Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/cmc.html

----- Original Message ----- From: KDXKawboy@... To: gregslistacct@... ; DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com ; moabmc@... Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 6:19 AM Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Re: Laser Pro Duro -- Street vs Dirt versions? Whichone? Which says that 'legally' these pipes do not have any type of spark arrestor as the law is written that the exhaust must be stamped with its USDA/USFS approval - the approval stamp is the legal definition of proof you have a spark arrestor. Its becoming more and more common for AMA sponsored DS rides to put you through a sound test and spark arrestor inspection before you are aloud to ride If you choose to run the 'technically' illegal LSD pipe and you are questioned by a Ranger, please remember that no matter what you may think or say, without the USDA/USFS certification stamped on the exhaust you do not have a spark arrestor. The law is written such that a legal spark arrestor must have its certification clearly marked so it can be seen without disassembly. BTW, unless marking figures have changed, only 10% of the KLRs sold get used in the dirt on any type of regular basis so why should LSD ever consider the extra expense of getting certified unless you guys stop buying the pipe until such a time as they do. You buy the exhaust as is and you only reinforce the idea that they don't need no stinking spark arrestor certification. Pat G'ville, Nv [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]