anyone have a seat?

DSN_KLR650
Arden Kysely
Posts: 1578
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 8:18 am

piston to cylinder clearance out of control

Post by Arden Kysely » Mon Nov 11, 2002 9:03 am

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Bryan Kowalchuk" wrote:
> Doing engine work for a bunch of reasons: > > 1) Fix the dohickey. > 2) Check the cam timing, maybe modify it because of item 4. > 3) Port the head, clean up the exhaust, possibly do a high-velocity
version
> of the intake ( http://www.mototuneusa.com/homework.htm ). The
middle of
about 7%
> increase in power on a KLR. > 4) Remove the cylinder base gasket, drop the cylinder 0.016" to
increase the
> compression ratio, check to see if there is valve/piston clearance
issues.
> 5) Clean out the oil pump screen. > 6) New rings and valve seals to fix increase in oil consumption
problem.
> 7) Give the valves a light lapping to clean them up. > 8) Set the valve clearance. > 9) New oil filter, spark pluc etc. > 10) Check the general wear and tear on the engine.
If my KLR was running good and I wanted to prepare it for a trouble free season next year, I'd do 1, 5, 8, and 9, then lube the swingarm/uni-trak linkage, run a larger wire to my headlight and call it a winter. No one seems to have much luck with performance mods, and I'd definitely avoid them if I wanted reliability. Just my 2 pennies worth. My A11 with 20k miles is going strong and I don't plan to mess with success. __Arden

Devon Jarvis
Posts: 2322
Joined: Thu May 10, 2001 9:41 am

piston to cylinder clearance out of control

Post by Devon Jarvis » Mon Nov 11, 2002 10:25 am

I wouldn't port the head. The only porting work I heard of that was really effective involved mounting a downdraft carb to an intake port raised so high that an external oil return line had to be fitted (new port blocked the cast-in return line). This was for a flattrack bike that didn't use the stock fuel tank. As far as pulling the cylinder base gasket, it's there to keep the oil where it belongs. I don't know if the KLR cylinder uses an o-ring at the cylinder base, but maybe the o-ring would be enough. Why not take the cylinder and piston to a machine shop, have them mill .016" off the top of the cylinder, and take .016" out of the valve pockets at the same time. This leaves the question of valve timing. Removing .016" would retard the valve timing slightly, but I don't know enough about tuning to predict what effect this would have, if any. Perhaps the same machine shop could "arc" the holes in the cam sprockets by .016" so you could bolt the sprockets in with the same timing as stock. I suspect more compression would really wake up the KLR motor, but it's nothing more than a suspicion. I have been thinking about how to figure out mathmatically what shaving the cylinder would do to the compression ratio. Problem is I need an exact volume for the combustion chamber, which is a complex shape. Take lots of pictures, be honest about what worked and what didn't, and please post your results. Thanks, Devon
> --- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Bryan Kowalchuk" wrote: > > Doing engine work for a bunch of reasons: > > > > 1) Fix the dohickey. > > 2) Check the cam timing, maybe modify it because of item 4. > > 3) Port the head, clean up the exhaust, possibly do a high-velocity > version > > of the intake ( http://www.mototuneusa.com/homework.htm ). The > middle of > > page http://www.mototuneusa.com/the_2007_superbike.htm says he got > about 7% > > increase in power on a KLR. > > 4) Remove the cylinder base gasket, drop the cylinder 0.016" to > increase the > > compression ratio, check to see if there is valve/piston clearance > issues. > > 5) Clean out the oil pump screen. > > 6) New rings and valve seals to fix increase in oil consumption > problem. > > 7) Give the valves a light lapping to clean them up. > > 8) Set the valve clearance. > > 9) New oil filter, spark pluc etc. > > 10) Check the general wear and tear on the engine. >

Geoff Wood
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2002 4:58 pm

piston to cylinder clearance out of control

Post by Geoff Wood » Mon Nov 11, 2002 11:22 am

Devon, This is all based on vaguely recalled High School math from 20 years ago, so keep that in mind, but can't you calculate the combustion chamber volume from the engine capacity and the compression ratio? Capacity is 651cc and compression ratio is 9.5:1 so the combustion chamber should be 68.53cc. I calculate the .016" gasket to be about .4mm, so if you remove the gasket that means you would be taking 3.14cc out of the combustion chamber, and you should net a compression ratio of 9.95:1. Geoff
> Problem is I need an exact volume for the combustion chamber, > which is a complex shape.

bkowalca
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2002 12:21 pm

piston to cylinder clearance out of control

Post by bkowalca » Mon Nov 11, 2002 1:28 pm

The idea behind the mods that I will do are simple things that will improve the performance of the bike. I have opened up the airbox, set the carb up with a oxygen sensor, both which helped the bike in the power and ride-ability. The idea for removing the cylinder base gasket came from Suzuki. There are two models of DRZ400's (sweet bikes!), the more road worthy one has a thicker base gasket to reduce the compression ratio. I figured I could do the opposite to give it a little boost. The 0.016" number came from the compressed thickness of the stock gasket. I am certain the thin coat of RTV will seal the base no problem with a gasket. I'm trying to get a tube of http://www.permatex.com/motorcycle/PermMotoSeal.asp? automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=30304 which is engineered exactly for this purpose. Actually I think this sealant is designed for 2-stroke motors because it has a higher tolerance to gasoline that is inside a 2-stroke case. There is no real load on the gasket here, no pressure, just keeps the oil in the crankcase. The area is quite wide and very well machined, the sealant should work fine. There is no ridge in the cylinder, so a light deglazing and a new set of rings will be all I need. The deck height is plenty, way over 0.025" so the piston will not extend out of the cylinder on this mod. I still have to check clearances of the valve to the piston, but I'm 85% sure that will not be a problem. I did measure the cam profile (I will post the curve) before the mod to see what effect dropping the cylinder will have. I don't suspect anything significant. I'm going to do the math as well on that one. I don't intend to port the head by "hogging" it out. I haven't figured out exactly what I'm going to do there yet (just got the valves out yesterday), but the first thing is just to clean up the obvious casting flaws etc. without changing the port volume or profile. I will "polish" the exhaust port to improve that flow, and roughen the intake to get some tubulence in there to reduce fuel separating from the air. There is an interesting protusion in the intake port behind the valve stem. My theory is thats its KHI's way of getting more velocity for better low and mid range torque. I'm going to measure the choke area of the intake port to see how theroetically close it is to reaching supersonic at high RPM's before I decide to do anything with increasing the flow velocity by decreasing the port area with expoxy. So far the major mods are all reversable so I'm not too worried about do anything bad to the bike. If it runs like crap, I'll put it back the way it was. As far as the claims on the MotoTune web site, I mostly agree with what this guy says, although how he says it is a little strange to say the least. He stuff is nothing new, it's all well known, Good tuners don't just measure the flow of a port but the velocity and swirl as well to try and find the best balance. Bryan K A14
--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Arden Kysely" wrote: > --- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Bryan Kowalchuk" wrote: > > Doing engine work for a bunch of reasons: > > > > 1) Fix the dohickey. > > 2) Check the cam timing, maybe modify it because of item 4. > > 3) Port the head, clean up the exhaust, possibly do a high- velocity > version > > of the intake ( http://www.mototuneusa.com/homework.htm ). The > middle of > > page http://www.mototuneusa.com/the_2007_superbike.htm says he got > about 7% > > increase in power on a KLR. > > 4) Remove the cylinder base gasket, drop the cylinder 0.016" to > increase the > > compression ratio, check to see if there is valve/piston clearance > issues. > > 5) Clean out the oil pump screen. > > 6) New rings and valve seals to fix increase in oil consumption > problem. > > 7) Give the valves a light lapping to clean them up. > > 8) Set the valve clearance. > > 9) New oil filter, spark pluc etc. > > 10) Check the general wear and tear on the engine. > > If my KLR was running good and I wanted to prepare it for a trouble > free season next year, I'd do 1, 5, 8, and 9, then lube the > swingarm/uni-trak linkage, run a larger wire to my headlight and call > it a winter. No one seems to have much luck with performance mods, > and I'd definitely avoid them if I wanted reliability. Just my 2 > pennies worth. My A11 with 20k miles is going strong and I don't plan > to mess with success. > > __Arden

TLrydr@aol.com
Posts: 838
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2000 9:00 pm

piston to cylinder clearance out of control

Post by TLrydr@aol.com » Mon Nov 11, 2002 8:06 pm

Its all been done before, Cams , Port work big carb, increase in compression, 5 angle vavle job, And it would pull my A14 by a little, a pull away very slow, Not much faster, He spent big bucks, Big bore is the only way to go............. Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

William Diehl III
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:14 pm

anyone have a seat?

Post by William Diehl III » Tue Nov 12, 2002 12:05 am

well, you can have mine for like 5$ if you live in or around riverside or fallbrook (i live in fallbrook, work in riverside) its black, stock. William Diehl
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Pye" To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Anyone have a seat? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rob" > > I am just wondering if any of you have your stock > > seats kicking around that you may want to get rid of. It needs to be > > grey or dark grey or poss. black and in good shape. Thanks for any > > replies! > > > Check out www.Dual-star.com They have OEM seat covers available for $15.00 , > I tried one a couple of years ago and was very happy with it. > Cheers, > steve > A11 > > > > List sponsored by Dual Sport News at www.dualsportnews.com. List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html > Unsubscribe by sending a blank message to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com . > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

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