nklr arrowhead--from the horse's mouth (don't say it).

[Devon Jarvis]

I would take a very good look at your bike, or installation method. In my last 60,000 miles of riding, 40,000 miles were done on chain-drive bikes, I have had exactly zero master links fail. This is 5 chain installations. If you don't have the correct riveting tool, I don't think it's possible to use the rivet-type link. I have a few rules for master links- 1- Never, ever use a master link twice. Once you've pressed on the plate, that's it. If you pull off the plate and re-fit it, it's not the same tight fit. So work carefully, if you make a mistake you'll need another link. 2- You need to press-fit the side plate with a special tool. If it is installed only once, and pressed on square to the pins, the press fit alone will hold the sideplate. The clip is just for insurance. You might get the sideplate on with vise-grips, but I believe that will make a looser press-fit. 3- Very gently, and again square to the pins, draw the sideplate back until it jams the clip in place. Use a chainbreaker for this. 4- If you are backing up in woods, brush, or rocks, be sure that nothing touches the chain. When it's moving backwards the clip could be popped off. I have never used adhesives on the clip. If I did, rather than RTV I would probably clean it really well, then use 2-ton epoxy. I tried the safety wire trick, but the wire wore though from rubbing the chainguides very quickly. Devon A15 RM wrote:

> > On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, roy wrote: > > >I am about to replace the drive chain on my KLR. Should I use a clip- > >type connecting master link or rivet-type connecting master link? > > My KLR can't seem to retain those clips for any length of time. I'd go > with a rivet. >

[edubbville]

Because I started this thing by asking my friend Tim to post for me, hopefully I can complete the saga. (I had been denied membership a month or two ago when this group was closed). This is not a personal attack on Fred or anyone else, just a report of my experience in doing business with him. I'm sure that Fred has been an excellent vendor to many of you, but I felt I was treated poorly as a customer and I had to speak out. Fred's reasons for his behavior may seem justified to you, but please read the whole story before you judge. I purchased and received springs and a brake line from Fred in August. I was satisfied. I ordered a Map rotor and pads on September 6, understanding that the rotor was backordered 2-3 weeks, but Fred didn't mention that he would charge my card immediately (see below for more info on this business practice). If he had, I may have said forget it and ordered directly from Map. Remember, I ordered through Fred as a courtesy. In a follow-up email with Fred about exhaust systems, in my opinion he was less-than professional. When I suggested he could do better, he ignored it, didn't say, "Sorry, I was busy." or "Kiss my a..." Just no response for two business days. That said to me he didn't care about my business. So I decided to cancel the order for the rotor. Since then I found out he charged me on day one, and that he would attempt to retain a "5% credit card processing fee." (direct quote from Fred). See below for more info on this business practice as well. If a customer had ordered $550 of products from me over a 2 month period (gross profit maybe $200), and was considering $400 more, then the customer gave me feedback that he wasn't happy, I'd say, "I'm sorry to hear that sir, how can I make it right." In private I might say, "I hate kissing these idiot's asses." But I wouldn't ignore the customer if I wanted his business. Some people have suggested that Fred has to charge on the day of the order. But Fred issues a PO to Map Engineering and other manufacturers, he doesn't pay on the spot. He may have to pay when the manufacturer ships the product, but more likely days or weeks later. Fred could have delayed the credit card fees he incurred by not charging my card until he received the product. According to information I've received, most credit card merchant accounts stipulate that the vendor shouldn't charge more than 7 days before he ships a product. If he had received the rotor from Map, then charged my card, it would be reasonable for him to charge me a restocking fee if I canceled, but that's not what happened. "Credit card processing fees" are not allowed under most card merchant agreements. I appreciate customer loyalty (I feel this way toward Dual Star). And I hope that Fred's future business practices continue to inspire loyalty in old and new customers. -Eric Brown eric.brown@... PS: If you need to respond, feel free to do so directly to me if you think the list has had enough of this.

[RM]

On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Devon Jarvis wrote:

>1- Never, ever use a master link twice. Once you've pressed on the plate, >that's it. If you pull off the plate and re-fit it, it's not the same >tight fit. So work carefully, if you make a mistake you'll need another >link.

Check.

>2- You need to press-fit the side plate with a special tool. If it is >installed only once, and pressed on square to the pins, the press fit >alone will hold the sideplate. The clip is just for insurance. You might >get the sideplate on with vise-grips, but I believe that will make a >looser press-fit.

Check.

>3- Very gently, and again square to the pins, draw the sideplate back >until it jams the clip in place. Use a chainbreaker for this.

This would increase the o-ring's clearance, maybe a little too much. Last time I pressed a sideplate on, I used a dial caliper to ensure that the plate-to-plate dimension was very close to that of a factory-assembled link. At this point, there'll be slop in the clip.

>4- If you are backing up in woods, brush, or rocks, be sure that nothing >touches the chain. When it's moving backwards the clip could be popped >off.

Hard to ensure around here.

>I have never used adhesives on the clip. If I did, rather than RTV I >would probably clean it really well, then use 2-ton epoxy. I tried the >safety wire trick, but the wire wore though from rubbing the chainguides >very quickly.

Tried RTV, didn't work. RM

[Devon Jarvis]

I'm sure I end up with a link that's a little wider, but the factory links really compress the o-rings. There seems to be enough pressure to make the o-ring seal, at least I've never had the master link seize or wear differently than any other link. And I've never had the clip come off. It takes a pretty stout stick, or a rock, to pop off a clip. It's hard watch out for here as well (lots of rocks, trees, deadfall wood etc) but you can definitely see if you're backing the bike somewhere that a rock will hit the sprocket. That RTV doesn't really work on the clip, especially for offroading, doesn't suprise me. RTV seems like a solution for the racetrack, where you aren't allowed to wire the link and you don't have chainguides (or rocks and trees). But cleaning it, and using 2-ton epoxy would have a decent chance of holding. Devon A15 RM wrote:

> > > >3- Very gently, and again square to the pins, draw the sideplate back > >until it jams the clip in place. Use a chainbreaker for this. > > This would increase the o-ring's clearance, maybe a little too much. Last > time I pressed a sideplate on, I used a dial caliper to ensure that the > plate-to-plate dimension was very close to that of a factory-assembled > link. At this point, there'll be slop in the clip. > > >4- If you are backing up in woods, brush, or rocks, be sure that nothing > >touches the chain. When it's moving backwards the clip could be popped > >off. > > Hard to ensure around here. >

snip

> > Tried RTV, didn't work. > > RM >