counter steering explained in 10 seconds.

[mikebmwk12ltc]

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "mikebmwk12ltc" wrote:

> Thought I would share my recent experience with my lousy dealer! > > The service "manager" is Dave. I *think* he may also be part owner

of the shop.

> Dave is the biggest ASSHOLE I have ever met. Customer service?

What's that?

> Specialty Sales & Service Kawasaki, etc. > Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, I will avoid this dealer from now on. What an > asshole!!!

Oh yea.. this Dave asshole is the same guy who **insisted** the valves DO NOT NEED TO BE CHECKED OR ADJUSTED at the first service! My manual indicates otherwise! When I purchased the bike, I negotiated with the salesman and the actual owner to have the 1st service completed at NO charge, and to specifically INCLUDE the valve check AND adjust as necessary. It's in writing on my purchase invoice. Well, Dave basically spends 20 minutes arguing with me (last summer) that the KLR's NEVER need any adjusting on the 1st service. After that conversation, I didn't feel like I wanted this yahoo touching my bike anyways. I guess I forgot all about that incident until this fiasco. Oh yea... all they did for the 1st service was change the oil (I think they did anyways). Mike P.S. When I picked up my bike brand new... I checked the tire pressures before riding off. The front only had 12 PSI. Dave was all pissy to have to add air!! I'm done with them!

> Mike Stuhlmiller > Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

[Mark McCoy]

Dave should also understand that bad news travels fast on the internet : ----- Original Message ----- From: "mikebmwk12ltc" To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 3:52 PM Subject: [DSN_klr650] Another snotty dealer story! > Specialty Sales & Service Kawasaki, etc. > Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, I will avoid this dealer from now on. What an > asshole!!! > > Comments?? > > Mike Stuhlmiller > Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

[David Crawford]

Just for the experience take the bike to your insurance company and ask them to have the bike fixed correctly. Will your agent represent you? Take pictures and document the issues not fixed. Ask the agent if they can help you. The dealer sounds like someone put a fork in him he is done. Dave 94 KLR

----- Original Message ----- From: "mikebmwk12ltc" To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 2:52 PM Subject: [DSN_klr650] Another snotty dealer story! > Thought I would share my recent experience with my lousy dealer! > > My 15 year old son just got his M/C license last November and we are > now riding buddies! My 01 K1200LTC and his 01 KLR650 makes an > interesting pairing. > > Anyhoo... a few weeks ago he takes a little ride around the > neighborhood, hits a patch of black ice and drops like a ton of bricks > doing only about 15 MPH. He's fine. > > Bike has about $1,700 worth of ouchies. > > Take bike to Specialty Sales (my local Kawi dealer/purchase point) for > repairs. > > The service "manager" is Dave. I *think* he may also be part owner of > the shop. > > Keep in mind I have done nothing or said anything out of the > ordinary.. I'm just a guy there to pick up my bike and happy to be on > the road again. I have no attitude or problem at all at this point. > > When I went to pick up the bike.. "fully repaired, ready to go, just > like new", I found the front fork tubes still bent a good two inches > from center. Not damaged, just needs re-aligned. Obvious just from > visual inspection. I asked if they test rode the bike to check all the > repairs... no it was raining/snowing/outside. > > Anything ELSE he says! I ask if he's getting upset. He ignores me. Big > Dave ain't got the time-O-day for anybody! > > Dave is the biggest ASSHOLE I have ever met. Customer service? What's > that? > > The new handlebars were installed very low, and all controls/hand wind > protectors were all misadjusted and just looked wacked out. ANYTHING > else NOW he asked?. I asked what he's all pissed off about.. no > response. Just his beady little eyes glaring at me. > > Dave readjusted everything on the spot, but had a real snotty attitude > about everything. WTF? > > Bike was brought out again and I noticed the front brake light not > working. Go get Asshole Dave to look at it. He storms out, slams the > door open (backlash almost hits me in the face) and plugs in the wire > for the brake light mumbling he JUST fixed that. Why are you so mad? > No response. > > He asked if I paid yet, tell him I am - they are re-totaling the final > bill because I have a 10% off parts discount card (from when > purchased). > > Davey almost blows a gasket in front of everybody and says how he's > getting screwed on this deal!! WTF!?!?! > > My son was there the whole time and could not believe this guy > either!!!! > > I called Dave after getting home to find out WTF was his problem. He > said he's sorry and he's running 1000 MPH doing everything. I tell > him his customer service sucks so bad, I would likely NEVER return to > his shop again, even though it's the only one convenient to me. > > I flat out ask him (three times in plain english) if he wants my > continued business.. no direct response. Pretty clear! I was even > considering buying another KLR so my son & I could ride all the forest > roads together. NOT! I think I'll get the new R1150GS Adventure from a > dealer who knows what customer service is all about: Beaudry > Motorsports where I bought my LT. > > Specialty Sales & Service Kawasaki, etc. > Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, I will avoid this dealer from now on. What an > asshole!!! > > Comments?? > > Mike Stuhlmiller > Coeur d'Alene, Idaho > > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > http://www.dualsportnews.com > Be part of the Adventure! > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[dale_johnson13]

You mean to tell me that now over 2000 motorcyclists now know that Specialty Sales & Svc 910 W Kathleen Ave Coeur D Alene, ID 83815-8308 Phone: (208)667-3571 Have bad service?

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Mark McCoy" wrote: > Dave should also understand that bad news travels fast on the internet : > Mark McCoy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mikebmwk12ltc" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 3:52 PM > Subject: [DSN_klr650] Another snotty dealer story! > > > > Specialty Sales & Service Kawasaki, etc. > > Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, I will avoid this dealer from now on. What an > > asshole!!! > > > > Comments?? > > > > Mike Stuhlmiller > > Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

[Mark St.Hilaire, Sr]

> Well, Dave basically spends 20 minutes arguing with me (last summer) > that the KLR's NEVER need any adjusting on the 1st service.

It looks like you already know the score on this one, but for the record: I checked the valves on my KLR at 500 miles and found them to be significantly out of spec, ALL of them on the low side. (I checked them again this winter at 3350, and found they were pretty much where I set them at 500, comfortably at middle of specification.) Dave sounds like quite a guy! It might be fun to go there with friends to see just how bent out of shape you can get him! (Grin) Wise men still seek Him... Mark St.Hilaire, Sr A15 My Adelphia Email can be "iffy." If you don't get a response, please try: KLR6500@... HomePage: http://home.adelphia.net/~msaint/index.html KLR650 Motorcycle Pages: http://klr6500.tripod.com/

[Alan L Henderson]

At 02:09 AM 3/15/2002 -0000, you wrote:

>You mean to tell me that now over 2000 motorcyclists now know that > >Specialty Sales & Svc >910 W Kathleen Ave >Coeur D Alene, ID 83815-8308 >Phone: (208)667-3571 > > >Have bad service? > >

Maybe a few people on the list should drop the owner of said bike shop a pleasant note to let him know this is not the way to do business. Alan Henderson A13 Iowa

[ATO137528@aol.com]

In a message dated 3/14/2002 6:03:23 PM Central Standard Time, sniper@... writes:

> I was out on state forest roads and I > see a sign for an "Unmaintained, Licensed Vehicles Only" Road.

My KLR just LOOKS unmaintained. Sounds like my kinda' road. And as far as spending $1700 on STOCK replacement parts, fugitaboutit! I don't even let a dealer work on my CAR, much less my bike! I'm not even sure what I want to say about this horror... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[mikebmwk12ltc]

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., jon.sykes@p... wrote:

> -----Original Message----- > Since the bike was so new, I decided to have my insurance cover the > damage. So I had the dealer replace *everything* that was scratched. > Basically everthing on the right side! That asphalt is a bitch!!! >

Guys... I really appreciate all the responses! Just to let you know, I debated hard about just fixin' the busted stuff myself and living with the scratches, etc. But after discussing with my insurance agent (he assured me my rates would be unaffected - the only claim ever), I decided I could spend my $250 deductible on parts and still have a battered bike, or spend the $250 and make it *new* again. I just didn't want to hassle with aftermarket/insurance issues. This was the quickest way to make me whole again. It's new again, and my son feels a lot better about it now. I gave him the new A15 for his 15th B-day (well, OK... I ride it too!)! I plan on never returning the bike to the dealer... I'm on my own for service from now on, and looking forward to it! BTW, I put over 10,000 miles on my LT last riding season (too short in N. Idaho) and my son got in almost 2,000 miles from when he got his license in November to mid December (snow)! Looking forward to RIDING on a daily basis anytime now! N. Idaho is a great place for dual sports!!!!! This list rocks! Mike Stuhlmiller 01 KLR650 01 K12LTC (Been mostly lurking for over one year!!)

[mikebmwk12ltc]

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "mikebmwk12ltc" wrote:

> --- In DSN_klr650@y..., jon.sykes@p... wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > But after discussing with my insurance agent (he > assured me my rates would be unaffected - the only claim ever), I > decided I could spend my $250 deductible on parts and still have a > battered bike, or spend the $250 and make it *new* again. I just > didn't want to hassle with aftermarket/insurance issues. This was > the quickest way to make me whole again.

Almost forgot... insurance also bought a brand spankin' new Shoei Z-II to replace the *old* RF 200!! ;^) (fair trade!!) Overall, I'd say I came out ahead. Plus I learned what kind of dealer I have in town now. Lessons learned... time to RIDE!!! My motto: In the street, keep at least one wheel on the ground at all times! Off road... there are no rules!

> Mike Stuhlmiller > 01 KLR650 > 01 K12LTC > (Been mostly lurking for over one year!!)

[Renn Rivers]

AMEN, brother! Renn A15 (Rocinante)

----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell D. Stephan, Sr. Tech Analyst" To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 4:12 PM Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: Counter Steering explained in 10 seconds. > Models. > > A good theoretical model is one that explains a difficult and cumbersome > concept relatively simply. It doesn't have to explain away every nuance, it > just has to cover the majority of what is going on. > > For example, grade schoolers learn about tornados by using water draining > out of two liter soda bottles. Of course, it's not a *real* tornado, but > the model does help the youngsters to get a grasp of what is going on in a > real cyclone. A good model also allows hands on experimentation. One can > play with a pop bottle filled with water. It's a little dangerous, however, > to experiment with the real McCoy. > > Somewhere in the distant past I was talking about the difficulty untrained > newbies have riding motorcycles. Neophite riders tend to steer into > obstacles rather than away from them. One cause is target fixation. > Another contributing factor is not understanding countersteering. > > I went on to explain that in order to steer a motorcycle you have to turn > the handle bars in the opposite direction of the desired path of travel. > > My explanation fell on completely unbelieving ears. So, I offered to prove it. > > Using a couple of shoelaces tied around the grips of the ST, I took the > doubting newbie out on the freeway. > > Needless to say, the demonstration didn't take long before the point was > made. Regardless of how much they tried, the bike would never go in the > direction they turned the handlebars using the shoelaces. > > After returning the bike to the garage the new convert was desperate to > understand what was actually taking place. > > I tried repeatedly to explain what was going on. Nothing seemed to help > until I came upon the broom stick demonstration. > > Yes, a broom stick is a good model for what is going on with countersteering. > > A motorcycle running straight is in equilibrium. In order to turn the bike, > the rider first has to break the equilibrium with a bit of countersteering. > > I put the butt of the broom handle in the palm of my hand and balanced the > head of the broom straight up in the air. The only way to get the broom to > travel to the right or the left is by first making a small hand movement in > the opposite direction of the intended path of travel. This small counter > move breaks the straight up and down equilibrium of the broom allowing me to > guide the leaning prop in the necessary direction. > > It was a simple demonstration that left no room for argument or > misunderstanding. > > I think even a Hardly rider could understand "The Broom" (TM) > countersteering demonstration. > > Granted, serious techno-geeks love the physics involved with explaining > countersteering like the below web site. However, in ten seconds I can > explain countersteering to my grandmother with the aid of a broom and she > doesn't have to know squat about gyro/physics/camber/rake/trail. > > If a model passes the grandmother test, it's a good model. > > > > At 02:31 PM 3/15/02 -0600, you wrote: > >I found this to be vaguely informative, I think the guy could have gone > >into more detail. What about tidal affects, i.e. the Moons phase and > >it's gravitational affect on the earth? How about air density, in regards > >to thermal variations and how they would affect aerodynamics? Although, he > >did make the principal of counter-steering understandable to the less > >schooled, LIKE ME !!!!!!! Later! > > > >http://www.msgroup.org/TIP048.html > > > Thanks, > > > *************************************************************************** > Russell D. Stephan, Voice: (614) 760-3065 > Senior Technical Analyst Fax: (614) 760-3360 > Technology Management Consulting, Inc. email: rstephan@... > 9980 Brewster Lane, Suite A. russell.stephan@... > Powell, Ohio 43065 URL: http://www.tmconsult.com > > > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > http://www.dualsportnews.com > Be part of the Adventure! > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >