smashed chain guide?

[Stu]

In a nutshell, this is exactly what I think caused all the failures. My idler shaft lever has some scarring on it; I'm sure I overtightened the idler lever bolt thereby damaging and weakening the idler shaft lever, because I am a bonehead. Thanks for crystallizing my thoughts Mr. Ohnstad. Does anyone know the correct torque for the idler lever bolt???? CA Stu

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Richard Ohnstad" wrote: SNIP > When I upgraded my balancer mechanism last winter to the post '96 variety, I > installed a new LEVER, IDLER SHAFT because I noted that my overtightening > had caused some deformation on the LEVER, IDLER SHAFT. Hope the problem > isn't with the newer parts. Although, when I installed Elden's inner cover > upgrade recently, I did inspect the LEVER, IDLER SHAFT for deformation > caused by overtightening, and it looked good as new. (I have been more > careful lately, not that I'm any King Kong) > > Rich in Tucson > 94 KLR650 > 86 VFR750 > > > No evidence of stripping, but the bottom of the broken piece has some > > scarring on it where it looks like I overtightened the adjustment bolt. > > > > I think the best option is to pop off the magneto cover when adjusting > this > > mechanism, so you can see exactly what the heck is going on in there. > > > > CA Stu

[monahanwb@yahoo.com]

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Stu" wrote:

> > Does anyone know the correct torque for the idler lever bolt???? >

It being an 8mm socket head, I wouldn't give it any more than a one- wrist-worth. Certainly not a whole arm's worth, that will likely do what you have mentioned. Bill (light touch)

[rm@richardmay.net]

Quoting monahanwb@...:

>It being an 8mm socket head, I wouldn't give it any more than a one- >wrist-worth. Certainly not a whole arm's worth, that will likely do >what you have mentioned.

...but not a San Franciso Limp Wrist-worth. I got all soft and mushy with this delicate flower one time in the past and I backed off on me. Damn thing was about 1/2 turn loose last time I did the adjust procedure. So of course I cranked on it pretty good last time. I guess I should get my tools back from Stu and replace it now? Jayzuz kee-rist on a popsicle-stick... This bike is going to cause me high blood pressure, and I'm not even 30 yet! RM

[steve secrest]

> I rigged it with a spring I had off an old carb, but I totally > removed the broken tensioner chain idler arm. I looked at the idler > gear behind it and figured that the snap ring on the outside would > eliminate any lateral movement of the gear on the shaft.

Yeah, I thought you did something temporary ... I was wondering what would happen if it went undetected and how long it would run.

> I reckon the KLR is the best all around bike in the world, and if you > sell it after one minor problem, I reckon you're making a mistake,

Actually, I was expecting wisdom along these lines but the truth is, I had made a deal on another bike using this one as a trade. We decided to meet the next day to swap bikes and titles and on my way home that night is when the problem surfaced. I wouldn't ditch the KLR over this ... I just have (had) other plans. I'm actually very relieved that 6 bucks for parts and it's done. The trade deal is still open for me and I'm thinking it over with the extra week or so to let the new bike lust die down a little. Steve in Cincy ... wanting a big bore road burner ..... and a dual sported CR500

[Tengai650]

At 12:27 AM +0000 11/29/01, Stu wrote:

>In a nutshell, this is exactly what I think caused all the failures. >My idler shaft lever has some scarring on it; I'm sure I >overtightened the idler lever bolt thereby damaging and weakening the >idler shaft lever, because I am a bonehead.

I don't think so, as the area that breaks is not the area that receives pressure from tightening. I think that over-loosening may actually be the source. Here's my theory: 1) Owner parks bike on sidestand 2) owner loosens keeper bolt several turns instead of the 3/4 to 1 turn needed 3) because most KLRs don't have a circlip retaining the idler lever (the 600 and some early 650s and the '89 Tengai had a circlip) and the bike is leaning to the left, gravity causes the over-loosened idler lever to slide off the shaft a little (like 1/2 mm) 4) owner then tightens the keeper bolt. 5) the base of the lever gets pressed and tightened against the engine case, but the lever doesn't slide back up the shaft. This causes a prying tension in the lever where it wraps around the shaft. 6) eventually, the combination of engine vibration and the induced tension causes the hardened-steel (brittle, not maleable) lever to shatter as shown: http://www.personal.psu.edu/mjv2/IdlerLever.jpg Mark B2 A2 A3

[Stu]

Mine looks identical to that pic, Mark. Is there that much room for lateral movement on the shaft if you over- loosen the keeper bolt? I thought the tension may have been caused by the lower end of the shaft being torqued too far into the motor, causing the upper part to press toward the outside of the case... Either way, it is a misalignment problem caused by the owner, I reckon, and with proper maintenance would not have failed. CA Stu

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., Tengai650 wrote: > At 12:27 AM +0000 11/29/01, Stu wrote: > >In a nutshell, this is exactly what I think caused all the failures. > >My idler shaft lever has some scarring on it; I'm sure I > >overtightened the idler lever bolt thereby damaging and weakening the > >idler shaft lever, because I am a bonehead. > > I don't think so, as the area that breaks is not the area that > receives pressure from tightening. > I think that over-loosening may actually be the source. > Here's my theory: > 1) Owner parks bike on sidestand > 2) owner loosens keeper bolt several turns instead of the 3/4 to 1 turn needed > 3) because most KLRs don't have a circlip retaining the idler lever > (the 600 and some early 650s and the '89 Tengai had a circlip) and > the bike is leaning to the left, gravity causes the over-loosened > idler lever to slide off the shaft a little (like 1/2 mm) > 4) owner then tightens the keeper bolt. > 5) the base of the lever gets pressed and tightened against the > engine case, but the lever doesn't slide back up the shaft. This > causes a prying tension in the lever where it wraps around the shaft. > 6) eventually, the combination of engine vibration and the induced > tension causes the hardened-steel (brittle, not maleable) lever to > shatter as shown: http://www.personal.psu.edu/mjv2/IdlerLever.jpg > Mark > B2 > A2 > A3

[Russell Scott]

Why Kawi doesn't just put an auto-chain tensioner in there is beyond my ability to comprehend. Its obvious this is the major achilles heal in an otherwise bulletproof motor. Russell -----Original Message----- From: Stu [SMTP:S2Mumford@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 5:59 PM To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: Diagnose this UPDATE Mine looks identical to that pic, Mark. Is there that much room for lateral movement on the shaft if you over- loosen the keeper bolt? I thought the tension may have been caused by the lower end of the shaft being torqued too far into the motor, causing the upper part to press toward the outside of the case... Either way, it is a misalignment problem caused by the owner, I reckon, and with proper maintenance would not have failed. CA Stu

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., Tengai650 wrote: > At 12:27 AM +0000 11/29/01, Stu wrote: > >In a nutshell, this is exactly what I think caused all the failures. > >My idler shaft lever has some scarring on it; I'm sure I > >overtightened the idler lever bolt thereby damaging and weakening the > >idler shaft lever, because I am a bonehead. > > I don't think so, as the area that breaks is not the area that > receives pressure from tightening. > I think that over-loosening may actually be the source. > Here's my theory: > 1) Owner parks bike on sidestand > 2) owner loosens keeper bolt several turns instead of the 3/4 to 1 turn needed > 3) because most KLRs don't have a circlip retaining the idler lever > (the 600 and some early 650s and the '89 Tengai had a circlip) and > the bike is leaning to the left, gravity causes the over-loosened > idler lever to slide off the shaft a little (like 1/2 mm) > 4) owner then tightens the keeper bolt. > 5) the base of the lever gets pressed and tightened against the > engine case, but the lever doesn't slide back up the shaft. This > causes a prying tension in the lever where it wraps around the shaft. > 6) eventually, the combination of engine vibration and the induced > tension causes the hardened-steel (brittle, not maleable) lever to > shatter as shown: http://www.personal.psu.edu/mjv2/IdlerLever.jpg > Mark > B2 > A2 > A3 Checkout Dual Sport News at http://www.dualsportnews.com Be part of the Adventure! Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Tengai650]

At 1:59 AM +0000 11/29/01, Stu wrote:

>Mine looks identical to that pic, Mark. >Is there that much room for lateral movement on the shaft if you over- >loosen the keeper bolt?

The only thing that keeps the lever from sliding completely off the shaft is the magneto flywheel. I learned this 4 years ago (when I was a KLR newbie) after taking the bolt completely out when doing an adjustment. When I put the bolt back in and started the bike, I heard a whirring noise. It was the flywheel rubbing against the lever. I took the cover off and saw that the lever was almost completely off the shaft. I also saw that the entire balancer system was a week design and from that point on decided it would be best to remove the cover every time when doing the adjustment. Mark B2 A2 A3

[RM]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, Tengai650 wrote:

>3) because most KLRs don't have a circlip retaining the idler lever (the >600 and some early 650s and the '89 Tengai had a circlip) and the bike >is leaning to the left, gravity causes the over-loosened idler lever to >slide off the shaft a little (like 1/2 mm)

Stu, I backed my bolt out too far in a "what does this do" moment of stupidity and my idler lever FELL OFF. No circlip on my A14. THIS is why I own those tools that I lent you. I had to put the little turd put back on the shaft where it belongs. I do like your idea, though. Last time I did the adjust, I felt quite a bit of resistance when turning the bolt back in, like the idler lever tried to slip off and was forced back on when I re-tightened. I'm getting all itchy to take a looksee at my doohickey now. When is the gasket supposed to arrive? RM

[RM]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, RM wrote:

>Stu, I backed my bolt out too far in a "what does this do" moment of >stupidity and my idler lever FELL OFF.

[snip] Ooops. Mark wrote that. Not Stu. I should've known better. Stu would have included the words "blondes" and "punishment" in his post somehow...