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[Leonard Cremer]

We just about finished builing up a KLR600, 87 model. The problem at this stage is that we get intermittent spark. We were pretty sure it must be a loose or damaged wire. But after going through the wiring a few times couldnt find anything. What we found is the following: We would kick start and there would be spark. We can do this for a while and the spark will still be present. We then connect the spark plug wire and crank it. After a few cranks it fires once or twice and then the spark is gone again. Checking all the wires again with no luck. We then let it stand for a few minutes and suddenly the spark is back again. Is there anything alse than the wiring that can cause a problem like this. At this stage the battery is run down. Could that be the problem. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Leonard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ted Palmer]

Leonard Cremer wrote: [...]

> After a few cranks it fires once or twice and then the spark is > gone again.

At least it works sometimes.

> Checking all the wires again with no luck. We then let it stand > for a few minutes and suddenly the spark is back again. Is there anything > alse than the wiring that can cause a problem like this.

Maybe the coil or the CDI unit is failing, although problems with these are almost unheard of.

> At this stage the battery is run down. Could that be the problem.

Inpection of the ignition wiring diagram suggests that the ignition does not rely on the battery, just the electric start system. It is still nice to spin the engine with the electric start, so try connecting jumper leads from a car battery. There should be loads of power there to spin the engine fast enough to start. Mister_T Melbourne Australia

[Devon Jarvis]

An intermittent electrical problem like this is the worst kind of problem. You can theorize all you want, but the only way to solve it quickly is swapping out parts with known good ones, until you fix it. A CDI or stator problem is less likely, when they have one foot in the grave, they usually work fine cold then go intermittent as they heat up. If you try a car battery for cranking, just use the battery, don't have the car engine running. My vote is either the coil, or the yards of wire and connectors between the coil, ignition switch, clutch switch, sidestand switch, etc etc. Starting with things that don't cost a lot of money, replace the spark plug with a new, properly gapped item. Open, clean, and grease (with electrical tune-up grease) every connector in the entire ignition circuit. A CDI ignition doesn't have a lot of power to begin with, dirty connectors can add up quickly. Get a multimeter from Radio Shack, and start checking the resistance of the stator coils etc. Acceptable values for this should be given in the manual. Devon A15 78 SR500 81 SR500 (former owner of an '85 XJ700-N Yamaha, that would boil its battery dry if the connectors for the alternator were dirty, along with cooking the $240 TCI box) Leonard Cremer wrote:

> > We just about finished builing up a KLR600, 87 model. The problem at this > stage is that we get intermittent spark. We were pretty sure it must be a > loose or damaged wire. But after going through the wiring a few times > couldnt find anything. > > What we found is the following: > We would kick start and there would be spark. We can do this for a while and > the spark will still be present. We then connect the spark plug wire and > crank it. After a few cranks it fires once or twice and then the spark is > gone again. Checking all the wires again with no luck. We then let it stand > for a few minutes and suddenly the spark is back again. Is there anything > alse than the wiring that can cause a problem like this. At this stage the > battery is run down. Could that be the problem. > > Any help would be appreciated. > Thanks > Leonard > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > http://www.dualsportnews.com > Be part of the Adventure! > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Leonard Cremer]

The one we have doesn't have a electrical starter so I think the battery could be ruled out as a problem. True? Is it possible to test the output of the CDI with a multimeter. If I kick it and measure the voltage on the output on the CDI, would I be able to determine if it is in working condition. If so, does anyone know what voltages to expect. Otherwize perhaps measuring the voltage on the input wire to the ignition coil. Just an idea, not sure if this is a viable thing to try. Leonard JHB South Africa

> -----Original Message----- > From: Devon Jarvis [mailto:jarvisd@...] > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 4:19 PM > To: KLR650 group > Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Spark Problems > > > An intermittent electrical problem like this is the worst kind of > problem. You can theorize all you want, but the only way to solve it > quickly is swapping out parts with known good ones, until you fix it. > > A CDI or stator problem is less likely, when they have one foot in the > grave, they usually work fine cold then go intermittent as they heat up. > > If you try a car battery for cranking, just use the battery, don't have > the car engine running. > > My vote is either the coil, or the yards of wire and connectors between > the coil, ignition switch, clutch switch, sidestand switch, etc etc. > > Starting with things that don't cost a lot of money, replace the spark > plug with a new, properly gapped item. Open, clean, and grease (with > electrical tune-up grease) every connector in the entire ignition > circuit. A CDI ignition doesn't have a lot of power to begin with, dirty > connectors can add up quickly. > > Get a multimeter from Radio Shack, and start checking the resistance of > the stator coils etc. Acceptable values for this should be given in the > manual. > > Devon > A15 > 78 SR500 > 81 SR500 > (former owner of an '85 XJ700-N Yamaha, that would boil its battery dry > if the connectors for the alternator were dirty, along with cooking the > $240 TCI box) > > Leonard Cremer wrote: > > > > We just about finished builing up a KLR600, 87 model. The > problem at this > > stage is that we get intermittent spark. We were pretty sure it > must be a > > loose or damaged wire. But after going through the wiring a few times > > couldnt find anything. > > > > What we found is the following: > > We would kick start and there would be spark. We can do this > for a while and > > the spark will still be present. We then connect the spark plug wire and > > crank it. After a few cranks it fires once or twice and then > the spark is > > gone again. Checking all the wires again with no luck. We then > let it stand > > for a few minutes and suddenly the spark is back again. Is > there anything > > alse than the wiring that can cause a problem like this. At > this stage the > > battery is run down. Could that be the problem. > > > > Any help would be appreciated. > > Thanks > > Leonard > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > > http://www.dualsportnews.com > > Be part of the Adventure! > > > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > http://www.dualsportnews.com > Be part of the Adventure! > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >

[Bogdan Swider]

> The one we have doesn't have a electrical starter so I think the battery > could be ruled out as a problem. True? > > Is it possible to test the output of the CDI with a multimeter. If I kick > it > and measure the voltage on the output on the CDI, would I be able to > determine if it is in working condition. If so, does anyone know what > voltages to expect. > Otherwize perhaps measuring the voltage on the input wire to the ignition > coil. > > Just an idea, not sure if this is a viable thing to try. > > Leonard > JHB > South Africa >

Hi Leonard, People that are real electricians can answer more fully but I thought I'd share my slim experience. There is info on testing a CDI unit in the manual. It's incredibly complicated. When I thought of doing this I asked at the dealership and queried the list. All said, in practice, it can't be done and that the only test is a swap with another unit. Good Luck, Bogdan

[Ted Palmer]

Leonard Cremer wrote:

> The one we have doesn't have a electrical starter so I think the battery > could be ruled out as a problem. True?

AFAIK, all 600s were electric start from 1985 onward.

> Is it possible to test the output of the CDI with a multimeter.

Probably not practical. The output of the CDI would be spikes, not DC or even AC, so you would really need something like a cathode ray oscilliscope to watch the output with any real accuracy.

> If I kick it > and measure the voltage on the output on the CDI, would I be able to > determine if it is in working condition. If so, does anyone know what > voltages to expect. > Otherwize perhaps measuring the voltage on the input wire to the ignition > coil.

The workshop manual does not have any specs for this measurement. It does have a table of resistances to check between the various wires leading into the CDI unit. Even if the resistances check ok, the unit may still be defective, so like Bogdan said it is best to substitute a known good unit. Mister_T Melbourne Australia

[BCSavWill@cs.com]

Forget voltages here, you need to measure resistance, either too much (grounded) or not enough (open circuit. It is straight forward to measure the following. Ignition coil. Between the terminal and ground 0.17/ 0.25 ohms Between plug lead and ground without plug cap 3.2 / 4.8 K ohms with the plug cap add about 5K. Anything different and the coil is shot. Ignition power (just had this problem on the Husky, no sparks.......new stator and flywheel assembly !!!!!) Disconnect pick up and exiter (power) coil leads and measure each lead to ground all should be at infinity, if not there is a short. Then measure between W and BK leads (exiter) should be 61 to 114 ohms between black/yellow and black (timing signal) should be 100 to 150 ohms If the rotor and stator have been apart for sometime ir the rotor has been dropped or banged or is aged it is not unknown for it to have lost its megnetism. The shouyld be hard to separate when you take the cover off and it should almost pull it out of your hands when you put it back. Magnets need a keeper or they WILL loose magnetism. Don't forget that the stop switch, clutch switch, and side stand switch ground the ignition system. Cranking the bike, by foot or motor, without the spark plug lead connected, or plug grounded can damage the CDI. The manual is very helpfull for these electrical checks. I hope this is of some help. It can be a nightmare!! I could send you a treatise on trouble shooting ignition systems which is generic. Brian KLR A14 KLX C1 TE 410E Honolulu, HI [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Leonard Cremer]

Thanks for all the help with the spark problems. Over the weekend I switched the starter coil and that doesn't seem to be the problem. After that we started disconnecting all wiring to the lights etc. Suddenly we have a nice continuous spark and we rode the bike for about 20 min. That night, no spark again. The only thing I couldn't swop yet is the CDI. Is it common for faulty CDI's to work now and then, or even for about half an hour without any problem and then going dead again. I would appreciate it if you could send me that treatise you where talking about. Thanks Leonard JHB South Africa

> -----Original Message----- > From: BCSavWill@... [mailto:BCSavWill@...] > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 7:52 PM > To: leonard@... > Cc: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Spark Problems > > > Forget voltages here, you need to measure resistance, either too much > (grounded) or not enough (open circuit. > > It is straight forward to measure the following. > Ignition coil. > > Between the terminal and ground 0.17/ 0.25 ohms > Between plug lead and ground without plug cap 3.2 / 4.8 K ohms > with the plug > cap add about 5K. > Anything different and the coil is shot. > > Ignition power (just had this problem on the Husky, no sparks.......new > stator and flywheel assembly !!!!!) > > Disconnect pick up and exiter (power) coil leads and measure each lead to > ground all should be at infinity, if not there is a short. > > Then measure between W and BK leads (exiter) should be 61 to 114 ohms > > between black/yellow and black (timing signal) should be 100 to 150 ohms > > If the rotor and stator have been apart for sometime ir the rotor > has been > dropped or banged or is aged it is not unknown for it to have lost its > megnetism. The shouyld be hard to separate when you take the > cover off and > it should almost pull it out of your hands when you put it back. > Magnets need a keeper or they WILL loose magnetism. > > Don't forget that the stop switch, clutch switch, and side stand switch > ground the ignition system. > > Cranking the bike, by foot or motor, without the spark plug lead > connected, > or plug grounded can damage the CDI. > > The manual is very helpfull for these electrical checks. > > I hope this is of some help. It can be a nightmare!! > > I could send you a treatise on trouble shooting ignition systems which is > generic. > > Brian > KLR A14 > KLX C1 > TE 410E > Honolulu, HI > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > http://www.dualsportnews.com > Be part of the Adventure! > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >

[J. Gregory]

that really sounds like a bad wire connection I would take every connection apart and clean them it's big job but think you will find your problem In my experience CDI's usually either work or fail completely. but bad connections come and go with no rhyme or reason. Don't forget to check fuse connections make sure they are tight. and the ground must be good thats what i would check first. Jim Arkansas U.S.A.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Leonard Cremer" To: Cc: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 2:03 AM Subject: RE: [DSN_klr650] Spark Problems > Thanks for all the help with the spark problems. > > Over the weekend I switched the starter coil and that doesn't seem to be the > problem. After that we started disconnecting all wiring to the lights etc. > Suddenly we have a nice continuous spark and we rode the bike for about 20 > min. That night, no spark again. The only thing I couldn't swop yet is the > CDI. Is it common for faulty CDI's to work now and then, or even for about > half an hour without any problem and then going dead again. > > I would appreciate it if you could send me that treatise you where talking > about. > > Thanks > Leonard > JHB > South Africa > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: BCSavWill@... [mailto:BCSavWill@...] > > Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 7:52 PM > > To: leonard@... > > Cc: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] Spark Problems > > > > > > Forget voltages here, you need to measure resistance, either too much > > (grounded) or not enough (open circuit. > > > > It is straight forward to measure the following. > > Ignition coil. > > > > Between the terminal and ground 0.17/ 0.25 ohms > > Between plug lead and ground without plug cap 3.2 / 4.8 K ohms > > with the plug > > cap add about 5K. > > Anything different and the coil is shot. > > > > Ignition power (just had this problem on the Husky, no sparks.......new > > stator and flywheel assembly !!!!!) > > > > Disconnect pick up and exiter (power) coil leads and measure each lead to > > ground all should be at infinity, if not there is a short. > > > > Then measure between W and BK leads (exiter) should be 61 to 114 ohms > > > > between black/yellow and black (timing signal) should be 100 to 150 ohms > > > > If the rotor and stator have been apart for sometime ir the rotor > > has been > > dropped or banged or is aged it is not unknown for it to have lost its > > megnetism. The shouyld be hard to separate when you take the > > cover off and > > it should almost pull it out of your hands when you put it back. > > Magnets need a keeper or they WILL loose magnetism. > > > > Don't forget that the stop switch, clutch switch, and side stand switch > > ground the ignition system. > > > > Cranking the bike, by foot or motor, without the spark plug lead > > connected, > > or plug grounded can damage the CDI. > > > > The manual is very helpfull for these electrical checks. > > > > I hope this is of some help. It can be a nightmare!! > > > > I could send you a treatise on trouble shooting ignition systems which is > > generic. > > > > Brian > > KLR A14 > > KLX C1 > > TE 410E > > Honolulu, HI > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > > http://www.dualsportnews.com > > Be part of the Adventure! > > > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > http://www.dualsportnews.com > Be part of the Adventure! > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

[Bogdan Swider]

> that really sounds like a bad wire connection I would take every > connection > apart and clean them it's big job but think you will find your problem In > my > experience CDI's usually either work or fail completely. but bad > connections > come and go with no rhyme or reason. Don't forget to check fuse > connections > make sure they are tight. and the ground must be good thats what i would > check first. > > Jim > Arkansas > U.S.A. >

Also, you might remove the bolts that hold on the electrical components especially ones that normally you have no reason to touch. They could have developed a thin layer of corrosion. You could clean them but just loosening and tightening might do the trick. Bogdan