new sparkplug

[Chris Krok]

Hey, folks... There has been discussion from time to time about super heavy-duty 17" rear tubes for the KLR. Dual Star advertises them on their web site, exclaiming, "Exclusively from Dual Star, 17" size!" Well, I just ordered one of these from them, and on the phone they told me that it is actually an 18" tube. They charge $21, although I have heard that other places sell them for around $16. Don't know if the rubber is as thick as the Dual Star tubes, which claim to be 4mm thick. Will have to look into that. Maybe we can put a caliper on RM's tube. Anyway, I'm a bit disappointed that they advertise a 17" tube and sell an 18. Don't know what the brand is; I bought it anyway, and will see if it comes in a box, and let y'all know. El Krokko <-- Getting shafted so you don't have to! -- Dr. J. Christopher Krok John Lucas Adaptive Wind Tunnel Caltech MS 205-45, Pasadena, CA 91125

[Bogdan Swider]

> Anyway, I'm a bit > disappointed that they advertise a 17" tube and sell an 18. >

Zeees Eees Booolsheeet. El Krokko

[Susan and Marshall]

Doc, I tried to order the heat shield for my bike from Dual Star 2 or 3 weeks before my trip to New Orleans. They still had not even shipped it 2 days before my departure and the day before I was to leave, they admitted that they had a problem with production on the item I wanted and it still had not been shipped! I cancelled my order and will not do business with this company again. Very poor customer service in my book. Your account just reinforces my opinion of this company. Just my .02 worth, Marshall in Afton, Ok '95 KLXC3 "Blackhorse" (in honor of those who served)

----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Krok To: KLR650 list DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 3:12 PM Subject: [DSN_klr650] heavy-duty 17" tube > Hey, folks... > > There has been discussion from time to time about super heavy-duty 17" > rear tubes for the KLR. Dual Star advertises them on their web site, > exclaiming, "Exclusively from Dual Star, 17" size!" Well, I just > ordered one of these from them, and on the phone they told me that it is > actually an 18" tube. They charge $21, although I have heard that other > places sell them for around $16. Don't know if the rubber is as thick > as the Dual Star tubes, which claim to be 4mm thick. Will have to look > into that. Maybe we can put a caliper on RM's tube. Anyway, I'm a bit > disappointed that they advertise a 17" tube and sell an 18. Don't know > what the brand is; I bought it anyway, and will see if it comes in a > box, and let y'all know. > > > El Krokko > -- > Dr. J. Christopher Krok > John Lucas Adaptive Wind Tunnel > Caltech MS 205-45, Pasadena, CA 91125 > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > http://www.dualsportnews.com > Be part of the Adventure! > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

[twowheelwandering@yahoo.com.au]

Ok, once again, Dual Star are assisting me with my world tour, so I'm not an impartial opinion. However, seeing as Dual Star don't actively subscribe to the list, so can't actually read your post (see my last rant under the 'gutless' section.), I'm choosing to explain something that either some listers don't understand or choose to ignore when applying criticism. Fred is a DISTRIBUTOR Dual Star are a DISTRIBUTOR and a MANUFACTURER of goods. When you have to build a product yourself, rather than just order it from a wholesaler, you are at the mercy of so many more circumstances, and other companies, and personalities. Suddenly your lazer cutter can't get your run done when you expected, because their previous job has run over schedule. The fabric cutter can't get patterns done because one of their staff has been sick. The company who supplies your metric fastners was meant to be getting more stock in, but it hasn't arrived when they said it would. The company that supplies you springs has changed their supplier and can't give you the same quality you want, and you have to go looking for an alternative source, possibly all over the country. Your machinist has had problems with getting the tight tolerances you spec'd, even though previous runs have been fine. Starting to get the picture? This is the world of small scale niche production, of small independent businesses dealing with other businesses, some of whom themselves are small and have just a handful of staff, all of whom are at the mercy of real world forces. Now every MANUFACTURING business has this to contend with, but the problem compounds when you have a huge range of diverse products like Dual Star does, involving a range of totally different manufacturing processes. From what I've seen, its a constant battle of putting out fires, and then you have to maintain the quality control of the things that you are already producing, its not like you just call up and presto, up pop 20 more product X just like the last ones. On top of that, Mike and his team are constantly developing MORE product, technically compounding his daily challenges. I don't know if this is news to some listers or whether some don't care, but this is the reality of Dual Star and other niche manufacturers. I didn't realize this before I started designing my own custom parts, and before I got to know the guys from Dual Star, so maybe there are others out there who are unaware these facts also. A distributor like Fred has far less variables to deal with than a manufacturer, and zero, read, zero, R&D costs and considerations, so to compare the two isn't comparing apples and apples (Not that Fred's a fruit...we already established that he's a cow...) Dual Star are a distributor, too, on top of everything else. At the end of the day, its up to the individual to work this out for themselves and whether they are going to dump on some company because things didn't work out like they had expected. Fred doesn't have to wear any criticism for the products he stocks, because he doesn't make any of it. Dual Star won't necessarily give you a half hour explanation for why something is not available when they thought it would be, either - would you really want them to? I may sound like an apologist for Dual Star; but I get the feeling some of the keyboard addicts out there are under the impression that when they call Dual Star some guy in a warehouse scribbles down your order on Burger King napkin and walks lazily out to see if he can be bothered finding the ladder to get the part down from the top shelf...after he's finished his coffee and read the sports section. Anyone who has met these guys and spent any time with Mike will know that's so far from the case - Those guys are seriously passionate about motorcycling and take a lot of pride in what they make and sell, something I have found to very to be the exception rather than the norm in North American manufacturing. Rich BTW, a 18" tube works FINE in the KLR's 17" rim, which is technically oversize anyway. The reason Dual Star don't advertise it as an 18 is for exactly this reason - the confusion it creates. Personally I find these tubes to be way easier to work with than thinner ones - if you can pinch one of them you shouldn't be changing your own tires.

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Susan and Marshall" wrote: > Doc, > > I tried to order the heat shield for my bike from Dual Star 2 or 3 weeks > before my trip to New Orleans. They still had not even shipped it 2 days > before my departure and the day before I was to leave, they admitted that > they had a problem with production on the item I wanted and it still had not > been shipped! > > I cancelled my order and will not do business with this company again. Very > poor customer service in my book. Your account just reinforces my opinion > of this company. > > Just my .02 worth, > > Marshall in Afton, Ok > '95 KLXC3 "Blackhorse" (in honor of those who served) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chris Krok > To: KLR650 list > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 3:12 PM > Subject: [DSN_klr650] heavy-duty 17" tube > > > > Hey, folks... > > > > There has been discussion from time to time about super heavy-duty 17" > > rear tubes for the KLR. Dual Star advertises them on their web site, > > exclaiming, "Exclusively from Dual Star, 17" size!" Well, I just > > ordered one of these from them, and on the phone they told me that it is > > actually an 18" tube. They charge $21, although I have heard that other > > places sell them for around $16. Don't know if the rubber is as thick > > as the Dual Star tubes, which claim to be 4mm thick. Will have to look > > into that. Maybe we can put a caliper on RM's tube. Anyway, I'm a bit > > disappointed that they advertise a 17" tube and sell an 18. Don't know > > what the brand is; I bought it anyway, and will see if it comes in a > > box, and let y'all know. > > > > > > El Krokko > > > -- > > Dr. J. Christopher Krok > > John Lucas Adaptive Wind Tunnel > > Caltech MS 205-45, Pasadena, CA 91125 > > > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > > http://www.dualsportnews.com > > Be part of the Adventure! > > > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > > > Post message: DSN_klr650@y... > > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@y... > > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@y... > > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@y... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > >

[John Irvine]

--- twowheelwandering@... wrote:

> Ok, once again, Dual Star are assisting me with my > world tour, so I'm > not an impartial opinion. However, seeing as Dual > Star don't actively > subscribe to the list, so can't actually read your > post (see my last > rant under the 'gutless' section.), I'm choosing to > explain something > that either some listers don't understand or choose > to ignore when > applying criticism. >

Thanks for sharing your insiights. As a manager who is concerned about customer services I also run into circumstances where events are beyond my control in spite of intelligent design and a desire to please. To often people these days (not referring to any particular individual) are quick to complain without trying to comprehend what factors might be involved. Most frequently there are logical reasons behind events, and sometimes people are jerks too. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

[Susan and Marshall]

Rich, No addicts here. My gripe wasn't so much that they had a production problem, but that at the time the order was placed, I explained that timing was a critical issue due to my departure for an extended ride. They assured me that they could deliver in plenty of time for my trip and I counted on them. If they indeed had a problem, I should have been informed that they couldn't deliver as promised, so that other arrangements could have been made. As they handled things, they left me hanging till the last minute. That is poor customer service. I don't appreciate being treated that way and choose to spend my hard earned dollars where I am better treated. Marshall in Afton, Ok '95 KLXC3 "Blackhorse" (in honor of those who served)

----- Original Message ----- From: To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 10:20 PM Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: heavy-duty 17" tube > Ok, once again, Dual Star are assisting me with my world tour, so I'm > not an impartial opinion. However, seeing as Dual Star don't actively > subscribe to the list, so can't actually read your post (see my last > rant under the 'gutless' section.), I'm choosing to explain something > that either some listers don't understand or choose to ignore when > applying criticism. > > Fred is a DISTRIBUTOR > Dual Star are a DISTRIBUTOR and a MANUFACTURER of goods. > > When you have to build a product yourself, rather than just order it > from a wholesaler, you are at the mercy of so many more circumstances, > and other companies, and personalities. > Suddenly your lazer cutter can't get your run done when you expected, > because their previous job has run over schedule. > The fabric cutter can't get patterns done because one of their staff > has been sick. > The company who supplies your metric fastners was meant to be getting > more stock in, but it hasn't arrived when they said it would. > The company that supplies you springs has changed their supplier and > can't give you the same quality you want, and you have to go looking > for an alternative source, possibly all over the country. > Your machinist has had problems with getting the tight tolerances you > spec'd, even though previous runs have been fine. > > Starting to get the picture? This is the world of small scale niche > production, of small independent businesses dealing with other > businesses, some of whom themselves are small and have just a handful > of staff, all of whom are at the mercy of real world forces. > Now every MANUFACTURING business has this to contend with, but the > problem compounds when you have a huge range of diverse products like > Dual Star does, involving a range of totally different manufacturing > processes. From what I've seen, its a constant battle of putting out > fires, and then you have to maintain the quality control of the things > that you are already producing, its not like you just call up and > presto, up pop 20 more product X just like the last ones. > On top of that, Mike and his team are constantly developing MORE > product, technically compounding his daily challenges. > > I don't know if this is news to some listers or whether some don't > care, but this is the reality of Dual Star and other niche > manufacturers. I didn't realize this before I started designing my own > custom parts, and before I got to know the guys from Dual Star, so > maybe there are others out there who are unaware these facts also. > > A distributor like Fred has far less variables to deal with than a > manufacturer, and zero, read, zero, R&D costs and considerations, so to > compare the two isn't comparing apples and apples (Not that Fred's a > fruit...we already established that he's a cow...) Dual Star are a > distributor, too, on top of everything else. > > At the end of the day, its up to the individual to work this out for > themselves and whether they are going to dump on some company because > things didn't work out like they had expected. Fred doesn't have to > wear any criticism for the products he stocks, because he doesn't make > any of it. Dual Star won't necessarily give you a half hour > explanation for why something is not available when they thought it > would be, either - would you really want them to? > > I may sound like an apologist for Dual Star; but I get the feeling some > of the keyboard addicts out there are under the impression that when > they call Dual Star some guy in a warehouse scribbles down your order > on Burger King napkin and walks lazily out to see if he can be bothered > finding the ladder to get the part down from the top shelf...after he's > finished his coffee and read the sports section. > Anyone who has met these guys and spent any time with Mike will know > that's so far from the case - Those guys are seriously passionate > about motorcycling and take a lot of pride in what they make and sell, > something I have found to very to be the exception rather than the norm > in North American manufacturing. > > Rich > > BTW, a 18" tube works FINE in the KLR's 17" rim, which is technically > oversize anyway. The reason Dual Star don't advertise it as an 18 is > for exactly this reason - the confusion it creates. Personally I find > these tubes to be way easier to work with than thinner ones - if you > can pinch one of them you shouldn't be changing your own tires. > > > > > > > --- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Susan and Marshall" wrote: > > Doc, > > > > I tried to order the heat shield for my bike from Dual Star 2 or 3 weeks > > before my trip to New Orleans. They still had not even shipped it 2 days > > before my departure and the day before I was to leave, they admitted that > > they had a problem with production on the item I wanted and it still had not > > been shipped! > > > > I cancelled my order and will not do business with this company again. Very > > poor customer service in my book. Your account just reinforces my opinion > > of this company. > > > > Just my .02 worth, > > > > Marshall in Afton, Ok > > '95 KLXC3 "Blackhorse" (in honor of those who served) > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Chris Krok > > To: KLR650 list > > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 3:12 PM > > Subject: [DSN_klr650] heavy-duty 17" tube > > > > > > > Hey, folks... > > > > > > There has been discussion from time to time about super heavy-duty 17" > > > rear tubes for the KLR. Dual Star advertises them on their web site, > > > exclaiming, "Exclusively from Dual Star, 17" size!" Well, I just > > > ordered one of these from them, and on the phone they told me that it is > > > actually an 18" tube. They charge $21, although I have heard that other > > > places sell them for around $16. Don't know if the rubber is as thick > > > as the Dual Star tubes, which claim to be 4mm thick. Will have to look > > > into that. Maybe we can put a caliper on RM's tube. Anyway, I'm a bit > > > disappointed that they advertise a 17" tube and sell an 18. Don't know > > > what the brand is; I bought it anyway, and will see if it comes in a > > > box, and let y'all know. > > > > > > > > > El Krokko > > > > > -- > > > Dr. J. Christopher Krok > > > John Lucas Adaptive Wind Tunnel > > > Caltech MS 205-45, Pasadena, CA 91125 > > > > > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > > > http://www.dualsportnews.com > > > Be part of the Adventure! > > > > > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > > > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > > > > > Post message: DSN_klr650@y... > > > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@y... > > > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@y... > > > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@y... > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > http://www.dualsportnews.com > Be part of the Adventure! > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

[Susan and Marshall]

RM, I changed mine on the KLX at roughly 10k miles while checking the bike out prior to the trip to New Orleans. I didn't notice any difference in performance either, but figured changing the plug while the fuel tank was off anyway was cheap insurance. Just my .02 worth, Marshall in Afton, Ok '95 KLXC3 "Blackhorse" (in honor of those who served)

----- Original Message ----- From: RM To: dsn_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 10:39 AM Subject: [DSN_klr650] New Sparkplug > > I let my factory plug go 19k miles. I finally changed it out yesterday. > Can't tell any difference. How often do you guys change out your plugs? > > The plug was a tad dark and had some deposits. Almost looks as if it's a > touch too cold. Anyone try a hotter plug? Erosion was minimal... > > EM > > > Checkout Dual Sport News at > http://www.dualsportnews.com > Be part of the Adventure! > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >