elden talk/ now payload

[Conall O'Brien]

Elden writes: Richard called from Canada , and told me Canadian KLR650s have solid balancer sprockets so I revisited my USA parts fiche for '96 and beyond. The fiche shows two parts as a must buy assembly, but I ordered them to examine them. Low and behold the two pieces for each became solid units enroute. Yep the springs and pins are gone and each front and rear balancer sprocket cames as one assembly each. The parts obviously retrofit. The new front balancer sprocket includes the balancer weight and costs $97.25 ( Part 13164-1007). The rear balancer sprocket costs $53.50 ( Part 12046-1165). Since the old balancer sprockets have the same part number and are cheaper I plan on using the pre-1995 sprocket Part # 12046-1053 ( cost $39.99) in the front with an Eagle Mfg. drive washer which I can use over and over and not have to throw my balancer weight away. In the rear I'll use the new model rear sprocket since it only costs a little more than the older sprockets. BTW if you convert to the late model balancers you need washer part # 92022-1880 (cost $3.99). Kurt Grife and Toby Lampson among others are quite concerned about the automatic cam chain tensioner on the KLR650 as well they should be. It appears that as KLR cam chains get stretched out the tensioners often jam thereby causing excess slop in the chain as it continues to wear. I found my 54,500 mile cam chain tensioner jammed. I also found Conall O'Brien's 90,000 mile cam chain tensioner jammed and not doing it's job for some time.I've been saying for a long time don't let your cam and balancer chains go beyond 30,000 miles. After ordering a late model tensioner I found it has a slightly larger and maybe slightly stiffer spring. I could see no other differences. I think I've got a solution to the problem, and will write about it hopefully in the next issue of Dual Sport News. I would like to thank Kurt Grife, Conall O'Brien, Phil Orth, Toby Lampson, Bogdan Swider, Richard Kickbush, and others for their valuable feedback relating to the KLR650. BTW if you do your own valve adjustments especially if you have a post 96 model, be sure and put some lint free material below the cam sprockets. Far too many folks are dropping bolts down into the engine. Pauline and I would also like to thank Conall O'Brien for accompaning us to Mulege, Baja Sur. Conall made a fairly difficult 150 mile loop filled with rocks and sand without dropping his Gripster shod KLR650. I'm sure he'd have enjoyed having our knobbies on that run. A final word on fork braces for the KLR650. A PROPERLY SETUP and TORQUED KLR front end is not spindly. If you have a stock front brake a fork brace is not necessary and only adds unsprung weight. If you have an oversized disc and improved front braking, and ride a lot on the street where unsprung weight is less an issue a fork brace is not a bad idea. Be sure and don't put too much brake on the front of your long travel motorcycle, but then that's another subject. Basically the KLR650 ain't no sportbike where the frame is concerned. Too much front brake,real sticky tires, and super aggressive riding could get you into trouble. Written by Elden Carl. I'd like to thank Elden and Pauline for giving me my first tour of Baja Sur..it was great. Conall _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[k650dsn@aol.com]

--- In DSN_klr650@y..., "Conall O'Brien" wrote:

> Elden writes:> > A final word on fork braces for the KLR650. A PROPERLY SETUP and

TORQUED KLR

> front end is not spindly. If you have a stock front brake a fork

brace is

> not necessary and only adds unsprung weight. If you have an

oversized disc

> and improved front braking, and ride a lot on the street where

unsprung

> weight is less an issue a fork brace is not a bad idea. Be sure and

don't

> put too much brake on the front of your long travel motorcycle, but

then

> that's another subject. Basically the KLR650 ain't no sportbike

where the

> frame is concerned. Too much front brake,real sticky tires, and

super

> aggressive riding could get you into trouble. > Written by Elden Carl. >

Sorry... I have to disagree here. The fork brace, in my mind, is the best single front end mod you can make to any KLR650. Add better fork oil, LR springs and a fork brace and you have a better front end than the KLR was ever intended to have. If you want to save money, forget the anodized lowers. A fork brace is not that heavy either. Probably very close in weight to a GPS and mounting bracket. Gino

[Don Detloff]

> A fork brace is not that heavy either. > Probably very close in weight to a GPS and mounting bracket. > > Gino

I know where I can remove an extra 40-50 pounds from my bike. Unfortunately it's attached to me and doesn't want to go away. I have Tim's K9 brace and feel it has make a significant improvement to my bike's handling. If I were that concerned with saving the little bit the brace weighs, I would just skip a pizza and have a pound or two to spare. Eldon has a lot of valuable information to offer on the KLR and I have put much of it to use. However, I don't take everything he says as gospel. Much of that info is still just one man's opinion and each of us have different needs for our bikes. Don Detloff Fair Haven, MI A14

[Mark]

At 2:14 PM -0700 6/18/2001, Conall O'Brien wrote:

>I've been saying for a long time don't let your cam and balancer >chains go beyond 30,000 miles.

Oh shit...the sky's falling again. I mean c'mon ... the balancer chain is a large as the 200,000 mile cam chain on a car engine. You figure with the bike's faster revs and shorter chain it will wear faster, but I say don't change it until it measures out of spec or 45,000 miles. Think about it: it's in a constant bath of oil and there's not much there to drive. Mark B2 A2 A3

[Tobin Slide Lampson]

In the case of the post 96' machines I'd have to more or less lean in this direction as well...... The pre 96' machines have a chain that is half as wide........ I suppose one key notion would be 'perhaps' to chain chains at times so that gear replacement is minimized....... FWIW- On the pre 96' systems 'the sprockets' are capable of being replaced....when its time... On 96' and later machines.....supposedly the drive sprocket is part of the crankshaft.....its a different configuration, and requires greater $/labor to replace........ Slide out Mark wrote:

> At 2:14 PM -0700 6/18/2001, Conall O'Brien wrote: > >I've been saying for a long time don't let your cam and balancer > >chains go beyond 30,000 miles. > > Oh shit...the sky's falling again. > I mean c'mon ... the balancer chain is a large as the 200,000 mile > cam chain on a car engine. You figure with the bike's faster revs > and shorter chain it will wear faster, but I say don't change it > until it measures out of spec or 45,000 miles. > Think about it: it's in a constant bath of oil and there's not much > there to drive. > Mark > B2 > A2 > A3 > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Support Dual Sport News by subscribing at: > http://www.dualsportnews.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Mark]

At 6:37 PM -0700 6/18/2001, Tobin Slide Lampson wrote:

>The pre 96' machines have a chain that is half as wide........

You're saying the '96 and later chains are 25.4 mm wide at the outside plates? That would make it wider than the drive chain. FWIW.... I have a chain in front of me that I took out of my '88 at 45,000 miles. The 20 link measurement is 191mm, measured twice at different segments. Just outside the standard 190.9mm and well below the service limit of 193.4mm Mark B2 A2 A3

[Steven van Twuyver]

>At 2:14 PM -0700 6/18/2001, Conall O'Brien wrote: >>I've been saying for a long time don't let your cam and balancer >>chains go beyond 30,000 miles. > >Oh shit...the sky's falling again. >I mean c'mon ... the balancer chain is a large as the 200,000 mile >cam chain on a car engine. You figure with the bike's faster revs >and shorter chain it will wear faster, but I say don't change it >until it measures out of spec or 45,000 miles. >Think about it: it's in a constant bath of oil and there's not much >there to drive. >Mark >B2 >A2 >A3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Logic wants to agree with you, except Eldon has purchased several lister's junk KLRs for next to nothing because they didn't heed his balancer chain replacement advice. It's just his opinion and as the saying goes: "...everyone is one", but in this case I will side with the all omnicient God of KLRs and replace when he says to replace. For me, praying has always been plagued by a distinct lack of correlated results. I have been praying to win the lotto whenever the jackpot hits 50 million. I play and pray but hardly any numbers ever match. I know the odds are against me, which is how I rationalize this failure. With my KLR, when the recommended mileage comes, I will take measures to prevent this failure. YMMV. -svt-

[Zachariah Mully]

> Logic wants to agree with you, except Eldon has purchased several lister's > junk KLRs for next to nothing because they didn't heed his balancer chain > replacement advice.

I won't repeat the saying about statistics, but here your reasoning is working against you. Please re-read what you wrote and I hope you can see what I am talking about. Eldon has picked up junked bikes... Does he know the entire history of these bikes? Is he seeing cam chain failures because THAT IS WHY HE GOT THE BIKE? Shit, if I bought ten bikes with broken cam chains and tensioners and then ran around telling everyone that those parts shoudl be replaced because all mine were broken, NO ONE would listen to me, of course they're broken, that's why he has them. Were any of them ever checked for strech before he got them? The only way that I will agree with Elden's predictions is if he goes out and picks up a brand new KLR and measures everything before he he even starts it. Then ride 500 miles and repeat (or whatever interval). I would like to see documentation of speed, oil, riding style and the ultimate results of these variables on the balancer system. I refuse to believe this lock stock and barrel without firm evidence and good scientific experimentation practices. I too could rip open 100 seized engines and come up with fact that the oil delivery system in said engines is extremely faulty and should be replaced immediately. But that result DOES NOT mean anything to me because I have no history, no control and no record of what I was measuring and when. I want proof, not rhetoric. I have no beef with the man, just his opinions Zack

[Devon Jarvis]

How much does the balancer chain cost? I realize that one of the attractive qualities of the KLR is price. But a tankful of gas is around $10 where I am (NYC), and a balancer chain every three years (if I took Eldon's advice, with my average usage) doesn't add up to much. It's also much cheaper than a tow truck if the chain failed away from home. It can't be worse than replacing an SR500 piston and rings. Is the balancer chain replacement done with the engine in the frame? Replacing parts according to a schedule, and not just the moment before they fail, is how aircraft are maintained (and they have an enviable reliability record). It may be satisfying to wring the absolute last drop of service life out of something, but the last few rides wouldn't be as fun since I'd be worrying anyway. Devon A15 78 SR500 81 SR500 Steven van Twuyver wrote:

> >At 2:14 PM -0700 6/18/2001, Conall O'Brien wrote: > >>I've been saying for a long time don't let your cam and balancer > >>chains go beyond 30,000 miles. > > > >Oh shit...the sky's falling again. > >I mean c'mon ... the balancer chain is a large as the 200,000 mile > >cam chain on a car engine. You figure with the bike's faster revs > >and shorter chain it will wear faster, but I say don't change it > >until it measures out of spec or 45,000 miles. > >Think about it: it's in a constant bath of oil and there's not much > >there to drive. > >Mark > >B2 > >A2 > >A3 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Logic wants to agree with you, except Eldon has purchased several lister's > junk KLRs for next to nothing because they didn't heed his balancer chain > replacement advice. > > It's just his opinion and as the saying goes: "...everyone is one", but in > this case I will side with the all omnicient God of KLRs and replace when he > says to replace. For me, praying has always been plagued by a distinct lack > of correlated results. I have been praying to win the lotto whenever the > jackpot hits 50 million. I play and pray but hardly any numbers ever > match. I know the odds are against me, which is how I rationalize this > failure. With my KLR, when the recommended mileage comes, I will take > measures to prevent this failure. YMMV. > -svt- > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > > Post message: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com > Subscribe: DSN_klr650-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Unsubscribe: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > List owner: DSN_klr650-owner@yahoogroups.com > > Support Dual Sport News by subscribing at: > http://www.dualsportnews.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Ted Palmer]

Gino wrote: [...]

> A fork brace is not that heavy either. > Probably very close in weight to a GPS and mounting bracket.

But your GPS and mount are not regarded as unsprung mass, unless you attach them to the fork lowers for some reason. Mister_T