best street seat for my new klr650?

[Bogdan Swider]

> my local parts guy couldn't find one in a cursory search of his > distributors. i saw in the archives that fred couldn't find one larger > than 44t. has anyone out there had any success finding a 45t sprocket? i > was so stoked with the way the 14t front worked in the dirt that i'd like > to lower it even a touch more. then i could just swap a 16t on for highway > trips. >

Yo Mark! Do you get DSN? In one of the latest issues Elden Carl describes his grearing applications. For touring he uses the stock 15/43 combo. For mountains he goes 15/44 and 15/45 for two up dirt. He doesn't like the 14 cause it accelerates chain wear, however for he does use 14/43 for slow rocky stuff (White Rim come to mind bro?) especially if he's two up with (I presume) the wife. He usually lowers the gearing from the ass end; he didn't mention the sprockets being hard to find. Bogdan

[Alan L Henderson]

At 05:22 PM 6/15/2000 -0700, you wrote:

>my local parts guy couldn't find one in a cursory search of his >distributors. i saw in the archives that fred couldn't find one larger than >44t. has anyone out there had any success finding a 45t sprocket? i was so >stoked with the way the 14t front worked in the dirt that i'd like to lower >it even a touch more. then i could just swap a 16t on for highway trips. > >apparently, there's a company called sprocket specialists that can build >one, but i bet it costs more than an off-the-shelf unit. >-mw >

The whole trick here is that you won't find them in steel. Several companies make them in Aluminum. I have looked into going to a 46 when everything needs replaced. A 16 would then bring it very close to the stock ratio and a 14 would be quite a bit lower. Alan Henderson A13 Iowa

[Verle Nelson]

> my local parts guy couldn't find one in a cursory search of his > distributors. i saw in the archives that fred couldn't find one larger

than

> 44t. has anyone out there had any success finding a 45t sprocket? i was so > stoked with the way the 14t front worked in the dirt that i'd like to

lower

> it even a touch more. then i could just swap a 16t on for highway trips. > > apparently, there's a company called sprocket specialists that can build > one, but i bet it costs more than an off-the-shelf unit. > -mw

That's exactly what I'm doing now -- well, almost exactly. I'm installing a 47 tooth Sprocket Specialist rear sprocket with which I will choose from my 14, 15 and 16 tooth countershaft sprockets. Sprocket Specialists are inexpensive but for any thing over 44 teeth on the KLR they use aluminum. Some people are not impressed with aluminum sprockets; I've never used one before. I also have an unused 51 tooth Sprocket Specialist rear sprocket. That was for Elephant Hill but they (the park service) have closed Elephant Hill and are repairing it so I don't expect to ever use it. To see exactly what such changes do, try the shareware program GearCalc: http://www.geocities.com/~klrdsn/page31.html Verle Nelson Cedaredge, CO

[Jeffrey L. Walker]

> Yo Mark! Do you get DSN? In one of the latest issues Elden Carl describes > his grearing applications. For touring he uses the stock 15/43 combo. For > mountains he goes 15/44 and 15/45 for two up dirt. He doesn't like the 14 > cause it accelerates chain wear, however for he does use 14/43 for slow > rocky stuff (White Rim come to mind bro?) especially if he's two up with

(I

> presume) the wife. He usually lowers the gearing from the ass end; he

didn't

> mention the sprockets being hard to find. Bogdan >

I'm surprised I didn't notice it before, but now that you mention it, I remember from my machine design class that for standard chain applications, sprockets with less than 17 teeth are not recommended, as the chordal speed variation is too great and causes excess wear and noise, and it is also improper to run sprockets with an even number of teeth, with an odd number of chain links, or something like that, I'll have to check my reference book. So, does anyone make a 47 tooth rear sprocket and a 17 tooth front? Jeff

[Jim Jackson]

Mark, I just took delivery on my Sprocket Specialists 45T rear sprocket last night. My shop had it mixed up with a 45T from a ZX-7 but he assures me that he fixed the goof and this is the right one. Price was $29.00 and it is aluminum. With dirt tires and 14/43 gears I'm pulling 4K rpm at 50 mph indicated so this should lower me right into real dirt bike territory. The only part numbers on the sprocket are a small 217 and a big 45. I'll let you know if it's the wrong one. Also, it took about 9 working days to arrive. Summer season I guess. Jim Jackson II A13 - South Carolina

> >my local parts guy couldn't find one in a cursory search of his >distributors. i saw in the archives that fred couldn't find one larger than >44t. has anyone out there had any success finding a 45t sprocket? i was so >stoked with the way the 14t front worked in the dirt that i'd like to lower >it even a touch more. then i could just swap a 16t on for highway trips. > >apparently, there's a company called sprocket specialists that can build >one, but i bet it costs more than an off-the-shelf unit. > >-mw

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[Weaver, Mark]

dooot dooot dooot, nerd alert.... i have heard folks make such claims about bicycle sprockets, especially when racers started using 11t cogs in the rear. it's definitely true that on a bicycle, an 11t cog wears dramatically faster than a 13 or 14. i know shimano started using 11t derailleur pulleys because the odd number of teeth alternate hitting inside vs outside plates on the chain, so they (empirically) wear better than 10t derailleur pulleys (of course the extra tooth may also help). reality check tho, clearly the stock 15t on the klr lasts a heck of a long time for most folks, so going to a 17 is probably in the realm of tinkering that makes you feel better, but i doubt if it's really necessary (note, i am trained in mathematics and finding sensible solutions, not in engineering). mw -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey L. Walker [mailto:jlwalk@...] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 10:48 PM To: 'Weaver, Mark'; Klrlist (E-mail); Bogdan Swider Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] source for a 45 tooth sprocket for klr650?

> Yo Mark! Do you get DSN? In one of the latest issues Elden Carl describes > his grearing applications. For touring he uses the stock 15/43 combo. For > mountains he goes 15/44 and 15/45 for two up dirt. He doesn't like the 14 > cause it accelerates chain wear, however for he does use 14/43 for slow > rocky stuff (White Rim come to mind bro?) especially if he's two up with

(I

> presume) the wife. He usually lowers the gearing from the ass end; he

didn't

> mention the sprockets being hard to find. Bogdan >

I'm surprised I didn't notice it before, but now that you mention it, I remember from my machine design class that for standard chain applications, sprockets with less than 17 teeth are not recommended, as the chordal speed variation is too great and causes excess wear and noise, and it is also improper to run sprockets with an even number of teeth, with an odd number of chain links, or something like that, I'll have to check my reference book. So, does anyone make a 47 tooth rear sprocket and a 17 tooth front? Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Free Conference Calling with Firetalk! Click Here! http://click.egroups.com/1/5480/5/_/911801/_/961134189/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Visit the KLR650 archives at http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 Support Dual Sport News... dsneditor@... Let's keep this list SPAM free! Visit our site at http://www.egroups.com/group/DSN_klr650 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@egroups.com

[Jim & Shannon Morehead]

Consider the source. I think this is from the same genius who claimed that rolling motorcycle tires have zero velocity relative to the pavement. While it may be true if one assumes perfect conditions, no tire or tread flex, clean and perfect pavement, etc., it doesn't take much imagination to see that a tire contact patch could easily deform and move relative to the pavement as the tire rolls. Many people try to "assume a problem away" when trying to seem intelligent and prove their point. BTW, not that it's relevant, but I'm an engineer (No, not a train driver.) and I like finding sensible solutions too Mark. Jim

----- Original Message ----- From: Weaver, Mark To: Klrlist (E-mail) DSN_klr650@egroups.com> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 11:48 AM Subject: RE: [DSN_klr650] source for a 45 tooth sprocket for klr650? > dooot dooot dooot, nerd alert.... > i have heard folks make such claims about bicycle sprockets, especially when > racers started using 11t cogs in the rear. it's definitely true that on a > bicycle, an 11t cog wears dramatically faster than a 13 or 14. i know > shimano started using 11t derailleur pulleys because the odd number of teeth > alternate hitting inside vs outside plates on the chain, so they > (empirically) wear better than 10t derailleur pulleys (of course the extra > tooth may also help). > > reality check tho, clearly the stock 15t on the klr lasts a heck of a long > time for most folks, so going to a 17 is probably in the realm of tinkering > that makes you feel better, but i doubt if it's really necessary (note, i am > trained in mathematics and finding sensible solutions, not in engineering). > mw > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey L. Walker [mailto:jlwalk@...] > Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 10:48 PM > To: 'Weaver, Mark'; Klrlist (E-mail); Bogdan Swider > Subject: Re: [DSN_klr650] source for a 45 tooth sprocket for klr650? > > > > Yo Mark! Do you get DSN? In one of the latest issues Elden Carl describes > > his grearing applications. For touring he uses the stock 15/43 combo. For > > mountains he goes 15/44 and 15/45 for two up dirt. He doesn't like the 14 > > cause it accelerates chain wear, however for he does use 14/43 for slow > > rocky stuff (White Rim come to mind bro?) especially if he's two up with > (I > > presume) the wife. He usually lowers the gearing from the ass end; he > didn't > > mention the sprockets being hard to find. Bogdan > > > > I'm surprised I didn't notice it before, but now that you mention it, I > remember from my machine design class that for standard chain applications, > sprockets with less than 17 teeth are not recommended, as the chordal speed > variation is too great and causes excess wear and noise, and it is also > improper to run sprockets with an even number of teeth, with an odd number > of chain links, or something like that, I'll have to check my reference > book. So, does anyone make a 47 tooth rear sprocket and a 17 tooth front? > > Jeff > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Free Conference Calling with Firetalk! > Click Here! > http://click.egroups.com/1/5480/5/_/911801/_/961134189/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > Support Dual Sport News... dsneditor@... > Let's keep this list SPAM free! > > Visit our site at http://www.egroups.com/group/DSN_klr650 > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Vegas, Baby! > Great deals on airfare, hotels and > car rentals from Expedia.com! > http://click.egroups.com/1/5206/5/_/911801/_/961174298/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > Support Dual Sport News... dsneditor@... > Let's keep this list SPAM free! > > Visit our site at http://www.egroups.com/group/DSN_klr650 > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@egroups.com > >

[Jeffrey L. Walker]

> dooot dooot dooot, nerd alert.... > i have heard folks make such claims about bicycle sprockets, especially

when

> racers started using 11t cogs in the rear. it's definitely true that on a > bicycle, an 11t cog wears dramatically faster than a 13 or 14. i know > shimano started using 11t derailleur pulleys because the odd number of

teeth

> alternate hitting inside vs outside plates on the chain, so they > (empirically) wear better than 10t derailleur pulleys (of course the extra > tooth may also help). >

On a derailleur cog the angle of articulation that the chain runs onto the cog isn't as great as on a drive sprocket, and it is this angle that causes the chordal speed variation. This angle is also lower on the driven spockets on the rear wheel cassette due to the derailleur. Also, bicycle chains do not run at the speed of motorcycle chains.

> reality check tho, clearly the stock 15t on the klr lasts a heck of a long > time for most folks, so going to a 17 is probably in the realm of

tinkering

> that makes you feel better, but i doubt if it's really necessary (note, i

am

> trained in mathematics and finding sensible solutions, not in

engineering). To quote THE book on the subject, (Mechanical Engineering Design, 5th edition, Joseph Edward Shigley, pg 682), it says: "For smooth operation at moderate and high speeds, it is consiered good practice to use a driving sprocket with at least 17 teeth; 19 and 21 will, of course, give a better life expectancy with less chain noise. Where space limitations are severe or for very slow speeds, smaller tooth numbers may be used by sacrificing the life expectancy of the chain." All the ANSI tables for selecting chain sizes are based on a minimum 17 tooth sprocket, with a MINIMUM chain life expectancy of 15,000 hours of operation. Lets see, 15000 hours times an average speed of oh say 25 miles per hour is 375000 miles. However, the tables say to select extra chain capacity for any of these conditions: The small sprocket has fewer than 9 teeth for low-speed drives or fewer than 16 teeth for high-speed drives, Shock loading occurs, The lubrication is poor, The chain must operate under dirty or dusty conditions. Wouldn't it be nice to have a chain that lasted the life of the bike? Jeff PS So what if I am a nerd.

[Jeffrey L. Walker]

> Consider the source. I think this is from the same genius who claimed

that

> rolling motorcycle tires have zero velocity relative to the pavement.

While

> it may be true if one assumes perfect conditions, no tire or tread flex, > clean and perfect pavement, etc., it doesn't take much imagination to see > that a tire contact patch could easily deform and move relative to the > pavement as the tire rolls. >

OF course the tire flexes. But if you think that there isn't a point of instantaneous zero velocity where the tire rolls without slipping, then you need to review your physics. Jeff

[CrazyDave]

On Fri, 16 Jun 2000 05:30:20 PDT, Jim Jackson wrote:

> Mark, > > I just took delivery on my Sprocket Specialists 45T rear sprocket last > night. My shop had it mixed up with a 45T from a ZX-7 but he assures me

that

> he fixed the goof and this is the right one. Price was $29.00 and it is > aluminum. With dirt tires and 14/43 gears I'm pulling 4K rpm at 50 mph > indicated so this should lower me right into real dirt bike territory. > > The only part numbers on the sprocket are a small 217 and a big 45. I'll

let

> you know if it's the wrong one. Also, it took about 9 working days to > arrive. Summer season I guess. > > Jim Jackson II > A13 - South Carolina

Jim, I am running the 14/45 combo, I changed over about a month after getting the bike. I love it, I am running 5k at 60 indicated (55 actual), am still getting in the mid to low 50s in mpg. I think I am getting better fuel mileage with this combo than stock. Dont take that as fact, I only ran a couple tanks at stock gearing. If anyone really cares I do a chart of the rpm/speed so they can compare. crazydave _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp