Re: Rear crank seal

[David Edgar]

Bob Grunau asked me about the difference between Phil and Mike's rear
crank seal conversion and I answered last night. I hope I made sense as
it was late and I was tired. Both Phil and Mike mount the chevy seal on
the outside lip (after machining) of the rear main cap and the matching
aluminum piece. The slinger is done away with and the crank welded up and
ground. The seal does not fit in the slot as that needs to be open for
the oil to flow back.

As an added note Mike has almost perfected a front seal modification. I
was trying to listen in on two different conversations when he was
explaining so I may not have gotten all the facts but sounds like he is
putting a metal sleeve on the pully. The seal rubs on the sleeve rather
than the cast iron pully. Rather than machine down the pulley, which
would weaken it (and it is already weak enough to where it sometimes
cracks at the keyway), and then put a sleeve on to build it back up, he
adds the sleeve to create an oversize diameter. Not sure of how thick it
is or how much machining must be done where the seal mounts. Will pass on
info if I hear more.

Mike Goodman can be reached at 818-996-7388. He is another that does not
have e-mail. Must be a purist in the communication area.

[frenchblatter]

As you probably know my rear seal conversion is leaking. Running out, not dripping. The engine's out and I'm waiting for a new seal (having ruined the spare I had which was cut by the new speedy sleeve).


Sandy said to cut or remove the drain feed pipe.


What does the group think.


Should I:


a) cut it and if so, where.
b) remove it
c) leave it there


A wet Norman
TC10178

[Stephen D Stierman]

I removed mine completely and drilled the drain hole in the main bearing cap out a bit larger with the idea to facilitate draining.  Now I have gone back to the original slinger arrangement in lieu of the seal conversion, but it may help a bit either way, but you really need to get the seal set up properly no matter what you use.Steve TC2911

From: "norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc]"
To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 3:07 PM
Subject: [mg-tabc] Rear crank seal

  As you probably know my rear seal conversion is leaking. Running out, not dripping. The engine's out and I'm waiting for a new seal (having ruined the spare I had which was cut by the new speedy sleeve).
Sandy said to cut or remove the drain feed pipe.
What does the group think.
Should I:
a) cut it and if so, where.b) remove itc) leave it there
A wet NormanTC10178 #ygrps-yiv-338341108 #ygrps-yiv-338341108yiv9115059891 #ygrps-yiv-338341108yiv9115059891 -- #ygrps-yiv-338341108yiv9115059891ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-338341108 #ygrps-yiv-338341108yiv9115059891 #ygrps-yiv-338341108yiv9115059891ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-338341108 #ygrps-yiv-338341108yiv9115059891 #ygrps-yiv-338341108yiv9115059891ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-338341108yiv9115059891hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-338341108 #ygrps-yiv-338341108yiv9115059891 #ygrps-yiv-338341108yiv9115059891ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-338341108yiv9115059891ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-338341108 #ygrps-yiv-338341108yiv9115059891 #ygrps-yiv-338341108yiv9115059891ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-338341108yiv9115059891ad { padding:0 0;} #ygrps-yiv-338341108 #ygrps-yiv-338341108yiv9115059891 #ygrps-yiv-338341108yiv9115059891ygrp-mkp 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[Steve S]

I cut mine to the recommended length (which I can't remember at the moment) and it made no difference to the rear leak I had at the time.

- Steve Simmons, TC8975
On 6/16/2016 12:07 PM, norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc] wrote:

As you probably know my rear seal conversion is leaking. Running out, not dripping. The engine's out and I'm waiting for a new seal (having ruined the spare I had which was cut by the new speedy sleeve).


Sandy said to cut or remove the drain feed pipe.


What does the group think.


Should I:


a) cut it and if so, where.
b) remove it
c) leave it there


A wet Norman
TC10178

[e_callo]

I have thought about the cutting and not sure how it would help at all.  The crankcase is generally under pressure. By cutting the tube so it is above the oil level the pressure would try to get out through the seal. With it under the oil at least it is not subject to the crankcase pressure.   If you had a vacuum or even neutral pressure in the crankcase it may help. But not many engines have that.   I am sure I will be corrected on this so please explain the logic so I can learn.   Ed   In a message dated 6/16/2016 3:27:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com writes:

 
I cut mine to the recommended length (which I can't remember at the moment) and it made no difference to the rear leak I had at the time.

- Steve Simmons, TC8975
On 6/16/2016 12:07 PM, norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc] wrote:
 
As you probably know my rear seal conversion is leaking. Running out, not dripping. The engine's out and I'm waiting for a new seal (having ruined the spare I had which was cut by the new speedy sleeve).


Sandy said to cut or remove the drain feed pipe.


What does the group think.


Should I:


a) cut it and if so, where.
b) remove it
c) leave it there


A wet Norman
TC10178

[Roger Furneaux]

Not so Ed - if the tube is below the oil level, and there was positive crankcase pressure, it would drive it up the tube. Which is why tubes are often shortened or removed.
I think all, or most, modern cars have negative crankcase pressure, which is why they are so leak-free. In fact a lot of modern steel sumps rust from the outside because they are not covered in oil...
There was an article by the late Tony Smith in TTT about creating negative pressure in the XPAG.
ocTagonally
Roger

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 8:42 PM, recon6060@aol.com [mg-tabc] wrote:

I have thought about the cutting and not sure how it would help at all. The crankcase is generally under pressure. By cutting the tube so it is above the oil level the pressure would try to get out through the seal. With it under the oil at least it is not subject to the crankcase pressure. If you had a vacuum or even neutral pressure in the crankcase it may help. But not many engines have that. I am sure I will be corrected on this so please explain the logic so I can learn. Ed In a message dated 6/16/2016 3:27:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com writes:

I cut mine to the recommended length (which I can't remember at the moment) and it made no difference to the rear leak I had at the time.

- Steve Simmons, TC8975
On 6/16/2016 12:07 PM, norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc] wrote:

As you probably know my rear seal conversion is leaking. Running out, not dripping. The engine's out and I'm waiting for a new seal (having ruined the spare I had which was cut by the new speedy sleeve).


Sandy said to cut or remove the drain feed pipe.


What does the group think.


Should I:


a) cut it and if so, where.
b) remove it
c) leave it there


A wet Norman
TC10178

[joecurto@aol.com]

The reason I figured out to shorten the tube onXPAG engines was that I noticed years ago that " T" types leaked the most when they were shut off after careful study I reckoned that the tube was in the oil in the sump, when shut off. The runoff  from the bearings was filling the tube and then the trough and rolling out the main cap . I also based this on that no other engine using that same seal leaked as much as the T series, MGA, Spridget and others ( Austin design) had the same seal but had very short drain pipes so that the oil can run off the bearings and drop into the standing oil in the pan . I cut the tube about 1 inch from the cast iron nipple well below the cork packing but above the standing oil.  While this does not cure all it does help

Joe Curto 718-762-7878 www.joecurto.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Furneaux roger.46tc@gmail.com [mg-tabc]
To: recon6060
Cc: MG-TABC List
Sent: Thu, Jun 16, 2016 3:59 pm
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] Rear crank seal

  Not so Ed - if the tube is below the oil level, and there was positive crankcase pressure, it would drive it up the tube. Which is why tubes are often shortened or removed.
I think all, or most, modern cars have negative crankcase pressure, which is why they are so leak-free. In fact a lot of modern steel sumps rust from the outside because they are not covered in oil...
There was an article by the late Tony Smith in TTT about creating negative pressure in the XPAG.
ocTagonally
Roger

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 8:42 PM, recon6060@aol.com [mg-tabc] wrote:
  I have thought about the cutting and not sure how it would help at all.  The crankcase is generally under pressure. By cutting the tube so it is above the oil level the pressure would try to get out through the seal. With it under the oil at least it is not subject to the crankcase pressure.   If you had a vacuum or even neutral pressure in the crankcase it may help. But not many engines have that.   I am sure I will be corrected on this so please explain the logic so I can learn.   Ed   In a message dated 6/16/2016 3:27:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com writes:   I cut mine to the recommended length (which I can't remember at the moment) and it made no difference to the rear leak I had at the time.
- Steve Simmons, TC8975
On 6/16/2016 12:07 PM, norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc] wrote:

  As you probably know my rear seal conversion is leaking. Running out, not dripping. The engine's out and I'm waiting for a new seal (having ruined the spare I had which was cut by the new speedy sleeve).
Sandy said to cut or remove the drain feed pipe.
What does the group think.
Should I:
a) cut it and if so, where. b) remove it c) leave it there
A wet Norman TC10178

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[Rothgene]

[Madhuparoor]

Hi Roger,I am afraid, to cut it by half an inch I may have to change my faith/religion. So I do not want do it. 

Regards madhuparoor

Am 16.06.2016 um 21:58 schrieb Roger Furneaux roger.46tc@gmail.com [mg-tabc] :

 
Not so Ed - if the tube is below the oil level, and there was positive crankcase pressure, it would drive it up the tube. Which is why tubes are often shortened or removed.
I think all, or most, modern cars have negative crankcase pressure, which is why they are so leak-free. In fact a lot of modern steel sumps rust from the outside because they are not covered in oil...
There was an article by the late Tony Smith in TTT about creating negative pressure in the XPAG.
ocTagonally
Roger
On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 8:42 PM, recon6060@aol.com [mg-tabc] wrote:
 
I have thought about the cutting and not sure how it would help at all.  The crankcase is generally under pressure. By cutting the tube so it is above the oil level the pressure would try to get out through the seal. With it under the oil at least it is not subject to the crankcase pressure.   If you had a vacuum or even neutral pressure in the crankcase it may help. But not many engines have that.   I am sure I will be corrected on this so please explain the logic so I can learn.   Ed   In a message dated 6/16/2016 3:27:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com writes:  

I cut mine to the recommended length (which I can't remember at the moment) and it made no difference to the rear leak I had at the time.

- Steve Simmons, TC8975
On 6/16/2016 12:07 PM, norman@frenchblat.com [mg-tabc] wrote:
 
As you probably know my rear seal conversion is leaking. Running out, not dripping. The engine's out and I'm waiting for a new seal (having ruined the spare I had which was cut by the new speedy sleeve).


Sandy said to cut or remove the drain feed pipe.


What does the group think.


Should I:


a) cut it and if so, where.
b) remove it
c) leave it there


A wet Norman
TC10178

[Clive P Sherriff]

Ed,    >>  With it under the oil at least it is not subject to the crankcase pressure.