Re: Body Numbers

[Dean Jensen]

First I wish to thank Bill, Mark, & Robin for the infor they provided, many thanks again. I first started to work on this some years ago, and I had most of it down, but I seem to have misplaced some of my notes. Mike Sherrell layed most of it out and I agree that the first part of the body number is the body serial number. I would like to start by using Mikes number as an example, as most of us has his book, page 78. Mikes car is (or the one he writes about) 9491, made in August of l949. The body number is 9240 A 39102. Okay the 9240 is the serial number. I do not know what the "A" stands for, maybe it means Abingdon, who knows?, anyway my idea is that the 39 stands for the number of months since they went into production on the bodies. We do not know when they started building the bodies, we can only guess that it was in August or September l945, this would mean that the body for Mikes car was made in or around December 1948, providing that strikes, shut downs, etc did not change the counting. My TC 5010, was made in March 1948, it has a body number of A29963, or that the body was made in January 1948. I have found that the TD's continued with the same numbers as the TC's. My TD (heaven forbid) was made in l952, its body number is 85571, or was made some where around October l952, again if they did not count shut downs etc. What I find interesting is Bill's number, which I do not have a number for this early of a car, A ll64, this would mean it was made in the first month of production, his is the 50th car produced (November l945), even more intesting is Marks number A l432, car 0617, this would mean that almost four hundred bodies were producted in one month. Of course I have heard that Abingdon was one of the first to go back into production, maybe they had no other orders except from MG and they really cranked them out. Now to the next number, this would be the third from the right, in Mikes case 1 (39102) . Previously I determined this might be the week of the month. I am not sure how I came up with this, but I still think this is the case. I have collect a few number over the years, most of them are from TD's , I do know that 1, 5, & 6 are a very common number for the third number. I have not found a 3, or 8, or 0 yet. I did find a TD without anything in this place, except for a dash (-). The next two numbers seem to be very random. The second number from the right, I have not found a 5 or 9, the first number from the right I have not found a 8, 9, or 0. They seem to stop at seven. I have tried working it with time, with no luck. I do not think it has anything to do with a job number. I still think it has to do with a line number, or a shift number, as there are to many repeats of the same numbers. As to some other possibilities, the interior was done at Abingdon, so it can not be this. There was not enought different paint colors to cover the range of number, this is out, besides there would be very many more repeats that what I have found. The other way to look at is to take our cars. They were obsessed with code dates on the car, the generator, the starter have numbers. The coil, voltage regulator, I believe the distributor, I know the shock absorbers, I think, the wire wheels, I know the tires use to have code dates also, probably numbers can be found on gages, they were everwhere, it would seem me that the body would also have a code date. Now this is only my idea, I do not want to bore anyone, if anyone can add anything I am all ears, I am looking for suggestion, where are the code breakers, I am looking for new ideas, with more numbers maybe the light bulb will click on. and it will all become clear. Regards Dean

[Keith and Maggie Black]

Dean Our TA came with out the body plate ( long gone ), but on an orginal timber under the scuttle, the number 5300 is embossed into the wood. The car was logged out in April of 37, car number 1218. Does anyone else have a number embossed into the wood and WHAT did it stand for? Is that the body number also?..............thank you in advance...........Keith

[Dean Jensen]

Re: [mg-tabc] body numbers Thanks Roger I have a TA also, but my plate is missing, and there is no number on the main sill. This is good that they did something that made sense on the TA so all could follow. I wish it was the same on the TC. The fact that they had a code date on the TA would seem to indicate also that it should be on a TC which I think it is. Over the years dealing with various things, I have seen all kinds of code dates, take the last number and put it in front, off set all numbers by a number, reverse the numbers, replace some with letters, divide by a number, you name it, its out there, will look forward to the list, tks. Cheers Dean

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Furneaux
To: Dean Jensen
Date: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] body numbers

Hi Dean - I assume you meant me, but how could you possibly have known that I was going to be a Robin, but that my Mum & Dad changed their minds just before they went to the office to register me!!!

Anyway, I now have a list of 30 TC body numbers, with the build dates. These I will type up when my brain is in top gear (its now just about midnight here) so that you can apply your crypto-analytical skills to them.

The only two TAs are TA1238 (280437) - ????/5300 andTA2361 (250438) - 1201/8215 so these cars are almost exactly a year apart. Note use of the "proper" date notation of day/month/year, not your reversed Yankie notation. One owner in Germany gave his body number in place of his chassis number, so cannot make much use of it - 1030/5279 but he did say it is a '37 car.

Will try to find time to do the list for you tomorrow.

ocTagonally Roger

you wrote:
Subject: [mg-tabc] body numbers
Date: Tue Mar 28 2000 5:33

First I wish to thank Bill, Mark, & Robin for the infor they provided, many thanks
again. I first started to work on this some years ago, and I had most of it
down, but I seem to have misplaced some of my notes. Mike Sherrell layed
most of it out and I agree that the first part of the body number is the body
serial number. I would like to start by using Mikes number as an example,
as most of us has his book, page 78. Mikes car is (or the one he writes about) 9491,
made in August of l949. The body number is 9240 A 39102. Okay the
9240 is the serial number. I do not know what the "A" stands for, maybe
it means Abingdon, who knows?, anyway my idea is that the 39 stands
for the number of months since they went into production on the bodies.
We do not know when they started building the bodies, we can only
guess that it was in August or September l945, this would mean that the
body for Mikes car was made in or around December 1948, providing
that strikes, shut downs, etc did not change the counting. My TC 5010,
was made in March 1948, it has a body number of A29963, or that the
body was made in January 1948. I have found that the TD's continued with
the same numbers as the TC's. My TD (heaven forbid) was made in l952,
its body number is 85571, or was made some where around October l952,
again if they did not count shut downs etc. What I find interesting is Bill's
number, which I do not have a number for this early of a car, A ll64, this
would mean it was made in the first month of production, his is the 50th
car produced (November l945), even more intesting is Marks number A l432,
car 0617, this would mean that almost four hundred bodies were producted
in one month. Of course I have heard that Abingdon was one of the first
to go back into production, maybe they had no other orders except from
MG and they really cranked them out.
Now to the next number, this would be the third from the right, in Mikes case 1
(39102) . Previously I determined this might be the week of the month. I
am not sure how I came up with this, but I still think this is the case. I have
collect a few number over the years, most of them are from TD's , I do know
that 1, 5, & 6 are a very common number for the third number. I have not
found a 3, or 8, or 0 yet. I did find a TD without anything in this place, except
for a dash (-). The next two numbers seem to be very random. The second
number from the right, I have not found a 5 or 9, the first number from the
right I have not found a 8, 9, or 0. They seem to stop at seven. I have tried
working it with time, with no luck. I do not think it has anything to do with a
job number. I still think it has to do with a line number, or a shift number,
as there are to many repeats of the same numbers.
As to some other possibilities, the interior was done at Abingdon, so it can
not be this. There was not enought different paint colors to cover the range
of number, this is out, besides there would be very many more repeats that
what I have found.
The other way to look at is to take our cars. They were obsessed with code
dates on the car, the generator, the starter have numbers. The coil, voltage
regulator, I believe the distributor, I know the shock absorbers, I think, the
wire wheels, I know the tires use to have code dates also, probably numbers
can be found on gages, they were everwhere, it would seem me that the
body would also have a code date.
Now this is only my idea, I do not want to bore anyone, if anyone can add anything
I am all ears, I am looking for suggestion, where are the code breakers,
I am looking for new ideas, with more numbers maybe the light bulb will
click on. and it will all become clear.

Regards Dean


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[Dean Jensen]

Jack I started a reply once, them I lost your e mail, some how, anyway, in Mike Sherrell books, page 76, he covers this problem. The factory started the serial numbers at 251, which was their telephone number, that is the reason for the 226 difference. The engine is also covered on this page. As mike said it is a wonder that the numbers are as close as they are, as all of these items were coming together to be assembled. My idea on the code date is 32 would make you body, assembled around May l948. This is based on the first month being September l945. Again it depends on how they kept track, were shut downs, strikes etc included or not. It would appear to me that they had at times a 1000 bodies sitting around waiting to be put on cars, it was not "a just in time" world then. Thanks again for the info Regards Dean

-----Original Message-----
From: tc48td50
To: Dean Jensen
Date: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] body numbers

Good-day Dean: Trust I'm not pushing in on your investgation, but as you are using Mike Sherrell's reasoning as to what the Body No.----Serial No. relationship may be----I too tried this and have no idea what I'm doing. My vehicle is TC # 6768 and the Body No. is: 6542 A 32557. Subtracting 6542 from 6768 leaves 226. Now I have no inkling as to what that means in the light of things. The engine # 7467 minus the Serial # 6768 formula also needs a sharper mind than mine to fathom! According to production records, printed in various books, my vehicle was built in the early part of October, 1948. How that figures into the "32 nd. month theory", I' not sure. I reckon that with either 4 or 5 months, of 1945 production, then my cars body was made in either Feb. or Mar. of 1948. So now that I am totally confused, I pass all this on to you, to add to your collection of data. I hope this may help you to clear up these situations. Cheers for now: IJack Emdall. ----- Original Message ----- From: djensen@accessus.net To: mg-tabc@egroups.com Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 8:33 PM Subject: [mg-tabc] body numbers
First I wish to thank Bill, Mark, & Robin for the infor they provided, many thanks again. I first started to work on this some years ago, and I had most of it down, but I seem to have misplaced some of my notes. Mike Sherrell layed most of it out and I agree that the first part of the body number is the body serial number. I would like to start by using Mikes number as an example, as most of us has his book, page 78. Mikes car is (or the one he writes about) 9491, made in August of l949. The body number is 9240 A 39102. Okay the 9240 is the serial number. I do not know what the "A" stands for, maybe it means Abingdon, who knows?, anyway my idea is that the 39 stands for the number of months since they went into production on the bodies. We do not know when they started building the bodies, we can only guess that it was in August or September l945, this would mean that the body for Mikes car was made in or around December 1948, providing that strikes, shut downs, etc did not change the counting. My TC 5010, was made in March 1948, it has a body number of A29963, or that the body was made in January 1948. I have found that the TD's continued with the same numbers as the TC's. My TD (heaven forbid) was made in l952, its body number is 85571, or was made some where around October l952, again if they did not count shut downs etc. What I find interesting is Bill's number, which I do not have a number for this early of a car, A ll64, this would mean it was made in the first month of production, his is the 50th car produced (November l945), even more intesting is Marks number A l432, car 0617, this would mean that almost four hundred bodies were producted in one month. Of course I have heard that Abingdon was one of the first to go back into production, maybe they had no other orders except from MG and they really cranked them out. Now to the next number, this would be the third from the right, in Mikes case 1 (39102) . Previously I determined this might be the week of the month. I am not sure how I came up with this, but I still think this is the case. I have collect a few number over the years, most of them are from TD's , I do know that 1, 5, & 6 are a very common number for the third number. I have not found a 3, or 8, or 0 yet. I did find a TD without anything in this place, except for a dash (-). The next two numbers seem to be very random. The second number from the right, I have not found a 5 or 9, the first number from the right I have not found a 8, 9, or 0. They seem to stop at seven. I have tried working it with time, with no luck. I do not think it has anything to do with a job number. I still think it has to do with a line number, or a shift number, as there are to many repeats of the same numbers. As to some other possibilities, the interior was done at Abingdon, so it can not be this. There was not enought different paint colors to cover the range of number, this is out, besides there would be very many more repeats that what I have found. The other way to look at is to take our cars. They were obsessed with code dates on the car, the generator, the starter have numbers. The coil, voltage regulator, I believe the distributor, I know the shock absorbers, I think, the wire wheels, I know the tires use to have code dates also, probably numbers can be found on gages, they were everwhere, it would seem me that the body would also have a code date. Now this is only my idea, I do not want to bore anyone, if anyone can add anything I am all ears, I am looking for suggestion, where are the code breakers, I am looking for new ideas, with more numbers maybe the light bulb will click on. and it will all become clear. Regards Dean eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/mg-tabc
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[Dean Jensen]

Thanks Keith I know almost nothing about TA body numbers, I double my knowledge in what Roger sent. I am very glad that you sent the message about the number on your TA. I have a number on my TA in the same place, I can not go look at it right now, but it is a four digit number and the first two number are 33, as it is different, we can assume it is not a part number, I have also wondered what it was for, can anyone else help, or does anyone else have a number on a early TA? Dean

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith and Maggie Black
To: Dean Jensen ; tabc-forever
Date: Monday, March 27, 2000 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] body numbers

Dean Our TA came with out the body plate ( long gone ), but on an orginal timber under the scuttle, the number 5300 is embossed into the wood. The car was logged out in April of 37, car number 1218. Does anyone else have a number embossed into the wood and WHAT did it stand for? Is that the body number also?..............thank you in advance...........Keith

[Frank O_ The Mountain]

In a message dated 3/28/00 6:06:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
djensen@accessus.net writes:

>

My late TA 2839 had number 8535 embossed into the timber under the
scuttle....I saved that piece of dry rotted wood but threw out the rest! The
metal plate that was under there also is now screwed to the top of my tool
box lid but I can't get to it as the bonnet of the TA is holding up the
balance of the parts to complete the restoration of the SA Tickford!!
Cheers
Terry

[Ed & Kris Curtis]

Another TA set of numbers for you. I own TA 1128 and on the original body timber of the shuttle just on the passenger side is impressed in numbers ~3/4 inch high the number 5221. the car is apart now and I have the body plate somewhere. I put it where I would be sure to find it when needed, but of course cannot put my hands on it now. I will find it sometime and add that information. Ed Curtis curtis@novagate.com 55 MGTF 1500 37 MGTA

----- Original Message ----- From: 37mgta@email.msn.com To: djensen@accessus.net ; mg-tabc@egroups.com Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 9:34 PM Subject: [mg-tabc] Re: body numbers
Dean Our TA came with out the body plate ( long gone ), but on an orginal timber under the scuttle, the number 5300 is embossed into the wood. The car was logged out in April of 37, car number 1218. Does anyone else have a number embossed into the wood and WHAT did it stand for? Is that the body number also?..............thank you in advance...........Keith eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/mg-tabc
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[Bob and Carolyn Grunau]

Hi Dean and Roger,
More body numbers on my cars as follows:
1952 TD-16812, Body type 22381, Body no.16141/86088.
1948 TC-5573, Body type B280, Body no.5348 A 29971.
1948 TC-5054, Body type B280, Body no. 4829 A 29990.
1949 TC-8654 EXU, B/t B280, Body no. 8421 A 38745.

Regards, Bob Grunau

----------
From: Dean Jensen
To: Roger Furneaux
Cc: tabc-forever
Subject: [mg-tabc] Re: body numbers
Date: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 8:22 PM

Thanks Roger
I have a TA also, but my plate is missing, and there is no number on the
main
sill. This is good that they did something that made sense on the TA so
all
could follow. I wish it was the same on the TC. The fact that they had a
code
date on the TA would seem to indicate also that it should be on a TC which
I think it is.
Over the years dealing with various things, I have seen all kinds of code
dates,
take the last number and put it in front, off set all numbers by a number,
reverse
the numbers, replace some with letters, divide by a number, you name it,
its
out there, will look forward to the list, tks.

Cheers Dean
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Furneaux
To: Dean Jensen
Date: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] body numbers


Hi Dean - I assume you meant me, but how could you possibly have known
that I was going to be a Robin, but that my Mum & Dad changed their minds
just before they went to the office to register me!!!

Anyway, I now have a list of 30 TC body numbers, with the build dates.
These I will type up when my brain is in top gear (its now just about
midnight here) so that you can apply your crypto-analytical skills to them.

The only two TAs are TA1238 (280437) - ????/5300 andTA2361 (250438) -
1201/8215 so these cars are almost exactly a year apart. Note use of the
"proper" date notation of day/month/year, not your reversed Yankie
notation. One owner in Germany gave his body number in place of his
chassis number, so cannot make much use of it - 1030/5279 but he did say it
is a '37 car.

Will try to find time to do the list for you tomorrow.

ocTagonally Roger

you wrote:
Subject: [mg-tabc] body numbers
Date: Tue Mar 28 2000 5:33



First I wish to thank Bill, Mark, & Robin for the infor they
provided, many thanks
again. I first started to work on this some years ago, and I had
most of it
down, but I seem to have misplaced some of my notes. Mike Sherrell
layed
most of it out and I agree that the first part of the body number
is the body
serial number. I would like to start by using Mikes number as an
example,
as most of us has his book, page 78. Mikes car is (or the one he
writes about) 9491,
made in August of l949. The body number is 9240 A 39102. Okay the

9240 is the serial number. I do not know what the "A" stands for,
maybe
it means Abingdon, who knows?, anyway my idea is that the 39 stands
for the number of months since they went into production on the
bodies.
We do not know when they started building the bodies, we can only
guess that it was in August or September l945, this would mean
that the
body for Mikes car was made in or around December 1948, providing
that strikes, shut downs, etc did not change the counting. My TC
5010,
was made in March 1948, it has a body number of A29963, or that the
body was made in January 1948. I have found that the TD's
continued with
the same numbers as the TC's. My TD (heaven forbid) was made in
l952,
its body number is 85571, or was made some where around October
l952,
again if they did not count shut downs etc. What I find
interesting is Bill's
number, which I do not have a number for this early of a car, A
ll64, this
would mean it was made in the first month of production, his is the
50th
car produced (November l945), even more intesting is Marks number A
l432,
car 0617, this would mean that almost four hundred bodies were
producted
in one month. Of course I have heard that Abingdon was one of the
first
to go back into production, maybe they had no other orders except
from
MG and they really cranked them out.
Now to the next number, this would be the third from the right, in
Mikes case 1
(39102) . Previously I determined this might be the week of the
month. I
am not sure how I came up with this, but I still think this is the
case. I have
collect a few number over the years, most of them are from TD's , I
do know
that 1, 5, & 6 are a very common number for the third number. I
have not
found a 3, or 8, or 0 yet. I did find a TD without anything in
this place, except
for a dash (-). The next two numbers seem to be very random. The
second
number from the right, I have not found a 5 or 9, the first number
from the
right I have not found a 8, 9, or 0. They seem to stop at seven.
I have tried
working it with time, with no luck. I do not think it has anything
to do with a
job number. I still think it has to do with a line number, or a
shift number,
as there are to many repeats of the same numbers.
As to some other possibilities, the interior was done at Abingdon,
so it can
not be this. There was not enought different paint colors to cover
the range
of number, this is out, besides there would be very many more
repeats that
what I have found.
The other way to look at is to take our cars. They were obsessed
with code
dates on the car, the generator, the starter have numbers. The
coil, voltage
regulator, I believe the distributor, I know the shock absorbers, I
think, the
wire wheels, I know the tires use to have code dates also, probably
numbers
can be found on gages, they were everwhere, it would seem me that
the
body would also have a code date.
Now this is only my idea, I do not want to bore anyone, if anyone
can add anything
I am all ears, I am looking for suggestion, where are the code
breakers,
I am looking for new ideas, with more numbers maybe the light bulb
will
click on. and it will all become clear.

Regards Dean


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[CFritz7001@aol.com]

For what it's worth, here's the info from the body plate on my TC, built
Oct.'48 with chassis # 6756, engine XPAG 7470. (I can attest that none of
the numbers in this message has been tampered with since Sept. 1953, when I
bought the car)
"Body" plate is stamped:
Body Type B 280
Body Number 6530 A32534
Have fun, you aspiring cryptographers!
Regards,
Carl Fritz

[Art FitzGerald]

And more:

TA 2070 (best I figure born in mid to late January '38) has plate info:
Body Type B270 and Body No. 900/7183.

Art

CFritz7001@aol.com wrote:

>
> For what it's worth, here's the info from the body plate on my TC, built
> Oct.'48 with chassis # 6756, engine XPAG 7470. (I can attest that none of
> the numbers in this message has been tampered with since Sept. 1953, when I
> bought the car)
> "Body" plate is stamped:
> Body Type B 280
> Body Number 6530 A32534
> Have fun, you aspiring cryptographers!
> Regards,
> Carl Fritz
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/mg-tabc
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