"2 pack" or lacquer

[Mike Duvall]

We don't need a paint engineer to know the differences between the paints. The industry has virtually stopped using lacquer even thought the acrylic lacquers are better than the old celluloid lacquers originally used on the cars. First, nothing beats a lacquer finish. It has a depth and luster that I have not seen duplicated but that finish is extremely hard to get. Acrylic lacquers are more durable than the older lacquers but they still fade under the sun. Lacquer is easy to work with but shows every flaw under you paint. You have to know how to do proper prep and be able have decent spraying skills. Lacquer is much, much cheaper but getting harder to find. No one carries it locally anymore in my area. The new urethane enamel paints are the most rugged, durable and are the easiest to apply but you must use an appropriate mask or fresh air to for your health. Touch up is not that bad but takes more blending and some sanding. You can successfully touch up but it is not that big of a deal to spray a whole panel. The clearcoat hides so many flaws, it makes it much easier to work with. My brother-in-law runs a body shop and they don't use any single stage. One is not better than the other in every respect, you just have to decide which way to go......I originally planned to go with lacquer for my TD but then changed my mind and went with urethane. I'm glad I did because it was easier to work with, gave me paint job that seems to be accepted at shows without a problem and it rugged for driving. Mike

[Stephen D Stierman]

This is a good topic and we could go on about it forever in terms of what should be used on our old cars. Yes perhaps the new stuff is a bit more durable, but then I won't be driving my TC every day, remember GM used it for years. The issue of applying two pack at home is lack of a controlled environment. I have done some of this but temperature and dust control is always a problem. Dust always settles in the paint because it takes longer to dry then lacquer and you still end up sanding and are left with nibs. If I had a paint booth I would have no problems. Make no mistake acrylic lacquer is not nitro cellulose lacquer. Yes it may chip a bit easier but it does not crack when put it on over the correct substrates. If you put it on over old paint that is not acrylic lacquer you may have a problem. I did a friend's Healey and my first Morgan 15 years ago in acrylic lacquer and they are both fine and dandy with no cracks or problems because they were bare metal resprays using the correct primers. Yes body work needs to be smooth with lacquer, but believe me, I do my own and it needs to be smooth under any paint system if you don't want to see it. Does base coat clear coat look right on a TC or for that matter any 50's or 60's British car? My opinion only, but I think I prefer single stage as more in keeping with originality. cheers, S. Stierman TC2911

[Diecuts@aol.com]

Hi Mike, I have painted around 50 cars as a hobby since the mid sixties, mostly British but some others for friends, and like all of us, tend to learn some stuff along the way. 99% of a paint job is preparation and patience. With today's polyester primers and fillers which , for the most part, eliminate shrinkage, acrylic lacquer holds up better than in the past. However, lacquer is getting hard to find and single stage urethanes give solid colours an original look as compared to clear coat over a solid base coat. Like lacquer, single stage urethanes can be colour sanded and rubbed out to an incredible shine that avoids the plastic look found with basecoat clearcoat. Urethanes are tough and easy to repair. Clear coat works well with metallics and that is what the consumer wants for the most part on their car. Auto manufacturers like base coat clear coat as there are less solids , less environmental problems, and less cost. That beautiful glossy finish with the robot-controlled orange peel is no longer questioned by the public. If the orange peel bothers you, that is why there are so many detail shops around! I painted my 39 TA tickford with basecoat- clearcoat urethane and it is decent, but the next one will be with single stage urethane. The only concern with single stage is testing the actual colour and paint (ie PPG) that is going to be used on a panel including colour sanding and polishing. If the wait between coats is too long there may be a tendency to show faint 'tree rings', which are the separate coats showing up when colour sanded and polished as they did not melt into one another properly. With clear coat, 3 coats of clear colour sanded will not show the rings obviously since it is clear. The window on adding additonal coats of single stage colour after the first coat is 15 minutes to around 4 hours. Obviously, the closer one sprays to the 15 minute side of the window, the more likely the coats will blend together. I have delayed up to 45 minutes without problems. If you do your own painting with urethanes, look up cyanide gas. That is what you are spraying and breathing unless you have a positive air breathing system. Don't bother with face filters etc, as a couple of wiffs the wrong way will have nasty consequences. Avoid contact with skin, eyes, etc. I use a homemade vacuum cleaner setup with swimming pool flex tubing and a disposible air suit with clear mask made for painters that you wear over your clothing. Gives 15 lbs positive pressure at total cost around $200. Contact off line for details unless the rest of the list is really interested. Hope this helps and please excuse the length. Cheers, Lee Jacobsen, MI, TA2969 tickford, SA2333 tickford [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[1939mgtb]

Bingo! Best, Ray "Much can be achieved with a smile. However, much more can be achieved with a smile and a gun."

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Duvall" duvallcom@sbcglobal.net> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 10:53 AM Subject: [mg-tabc] "2 pack" or lacquer > We don't need a paint engineer to know the differences between the > paints. The industry has virtually stopped using lacquer even thought > the acrylic lacquers are better than the old celluloid lacquers > originally used on the cars. > > First, nothing beats a lacquer finish. It has a depth and luster that I > have not seen duplicated but that finish is extremely hard to get. > Acrylic lacquers are more durable than the older lacquers but they > still fade under the sun. Lacquer is easy to work with but shows every > flaw under you paint. You have to know how to do proper prep and be > able have decent spraying skills. Lacquer is much, much cheaper but > getting harder to find. No one carries it locally anymore in my area. > > The new urethane enamel paints are the most rugged, durable and are the > easiest to apply but you must use an appropriate mask or fresh air to > for your health. Touch up is not that bad but takes more blending and > some sanding. You can successfully touch up but it is not that big of a > deal to spray a whole panel. > > The clearcoat hides so many flaws, it makes it much easier to work > with. My brother-in-law runs a body shop and they don't use any single > stage. > > One is not better than the other in every respect, you just have to > decide which way to go......I originally planned to go with lacquer for > my TD but then changed my mind and went with urethane. I'm glad I did > because it was easier to work with, gave me paint job that seems to be > accepted at shows without a problem and it rugged for driving. > > Mike > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >

[Jeff Redman]

FWIW... I've had some success using 2-pack paints in an ordinary car-port open to the elements on two sides. Being open also helps with the painter's continued breathing, as I'm damned if I can wear a respirator without fogging up my 'specs, and there always seems to be enough air floating around without piping it in via a diver's helmet, anyway the canvas suit and lead boots are a real pain and tend to slow your movements. Seriously...Aliens in the paint can largely be eliminated by hanging the panels upside-down from the roof beams and painting them thusly. Mind you the body tub takes a fair bit of juggling. Reddo -----Original Message----- From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen D Stierman Sent: Monday, 13 June 2005 2:38 AM To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] "2 pack" or lacquer This is a good topic and we could go on about it forever in terms of what should be used on our old cars. Yes perhaps the new stuff is a bit more durable, but then I won't be driving my TC every day, remember GM used it for years. The issue of applying two pack at home is lack of a controlled environment. I have done some of this but temperature and dust control is always a problem. Dust always settles in the paint because it takes longer to dry then lacquer and you still end up sanding and are left with nibs. If I had a paint booth I would have no problems. Make no mistake acrylic lacquer is not nitro cellulose lacquer. Yes it may chip a bit easier but it does not crack when put it on over the correct substrates. If you put it on over old paint that is not acrylic lacquer you may have a problem. I did a friend's Healey and my first Morgan 15 years ago in acrylic lacquer and they are both fine and dandy with no cracks or problems because they were bare metal resprays using the correct primers. Yes body work needs to be smooth with lacquer, but believe me, I do my own and it needs to be smooth under any paint system if you don't want to see it. Does base coat clear coat look right on a TC or for that matter any 50's or 60's British car? My opinion only, but I think I prefer single stage as more in keeping with originality. cheers, S. Stierman TC2911 Yahoo! Groups Links

[Terry Sanders]

Our resident paint expert is Rev. Bill Hentzen who has been in the paint manufacturing business for a life time. Surprised he hasn't spoken up. From what I know, Ray has it right but I'd like to change the subject slightly. What ever paint system you use, what is the best way to keep the touch up remainders fresh for future use? I was told in a PPG store recently that if the hardner for DP40 was ever opened, it would now be done for, there is no shelf life for it. I try to keep the left overs in smaller cans and upside down to prevent oxygen ingress but should I also keep them in the fridg or in a vacuum bottle??? Terry in Oakland Jeff Redman redcigar1@bigpond.com> wrote: FWIW... I've had some success using 2-pack paints in an ordinary car-port open to the elements on two sides. Being open also helps with the painter's continued breathing, as I'm damned if I can wear a respirator without fogging up my 'specs, and there always seems to be enough air floating around without piping it in via a diver's helmet, anyway the canvas suit and lead boots are a real pain and tend to slow your movements. Seriously...Aliens in the paint can largely be eliminated by hanging the panels upside-down from the roof beams and painting them thusly. Mind you the body tub takes a fair bit of juggling. Reddo -----Original Message----- From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen D Stierman Sent: Monday, 13 June 2005 2:38 AM To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] "2 pack" or lacquer This is a good topic and we could go on about it forever in terms of what should be used on our old cars. Yes perhaps the new stuff is a bit more durable, but then I won't be driving my TC every day, remember GM used it for years. The issue of applying two pack at home is lack of a controlled environment. I have done some of this but temperature and dust control is always a problem. Dust always settles in the paint because it takes longer to dry then lacquer and you still end up sanding and are left with nibs. If I had a paint booth I would have no problems. Make no mistake acrylic lacquer is not nitro cellulose lacquer. Yes it may chip a bit easier but it does not crack when put it on over the correct substrates. If you put it on over old paint that is not acrylic lacquer you may have a problem. I did a friend's Healey and my first Morgan 15 years ago in acrylic lacquer and they are both fine and dandy with no cracks or problems because they were bare metal resprays using the correct primers. Yes body work needs to be smooth with lacquer, but believe me, I do my own and it needs to be smooth under any paint system if you don't want to see it. Does base coat clear coat look right on a TC or for that matter any 50's or 60's British car? My opinion only, but I think I prefer single stage as more in keeping with originality. cheers, S. Stierman TC2911 Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[1939mgtb]

I have some paint in the shop fridge that has remained usable for 10 years.....unmixed with hardener of course! Mixed, it will last until the next day at least. Best, Ray "Much can be achieved with a smile. However, much more can be achieved with a smile and a gun."

----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Sanders" taterry@pacbell.net> To: "Jeff Redman" redcigar1@bigpond.com>; "'Stephen D Stierman'" morgan7709@sbcglobal.net> Cc: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 8:05 AM Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] "2 pack" or lacquer > Our resident paint expert is Rev. Bill Hentzen who has been in the paint > manufacturing business for a life time. Surprised he hasn't spoken up. > From what I know, Ray has it right but I'd like to change the subject > slightly. What ever paint system you use, what is the best way to keep > the touch up remainders fresh for future use? I was told in a PPG store > recently that if the hardner for DP40 was ever opened, it would now be > done for, there is no shelf life for it. > I try to keep the left overs in smaller cans and upside down to prevent > oxygen ingress but should I also keep them in the fridg or in a vacuum > bottle??? > Terry in Oakland > > Jeff Redman redcigar1@bigpond.com> wrote: > FWIW... I've had some success using 2-pack paints in an ordinary > car-port open to the elements on two sides. Being open also helps with > the painter's continued breathing, as I'm damned if I can wear a > respirator without fogging up my 'specs, and there always seems to be > enough air floating around without piping it in via a diver's helmet, > anyway the canvas suit and lead boots are a real pain and tend to slow > your movements. > Seriously...Aliens in the paint can largely be eliminated by hanging the > panels upside-down from the roof beams and painting them thusly. > Mind you the body tub takes a fair bit of juggling. > > Reddo > > -----Original Message----- > From: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf > Of Stephen D Stierman > Sent: Monday, 13 June 2005 2:38 AM > To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] "2 pack" or lacquer > > > This is a good topic and we could go on about it > forever in terms of what should be used on our old > cars. > Yes perhaps the new stuff is a bit more durable, but > then I won't be driving my TC every day, remember GM > used it for years. > The issue of applying two pack at home is lack of a > controlled environment. I have done some of this but > temperature and dust control is always a problem. > Dust always settles in the paint because it takes > longer to dry then lacquer and you still end up > sanding and are left with nibs. If I had a paint > booth I would have no problems. > Make no mistake acrylic lacquer is not nitro cellulose > lacquer. Yes it may chip a bit easier but it does not > crack when put it on over the correct substrates. If > you put it on over old paint that is not acrylic > lacquer you may have a problem. I did a friend's > Healey and my first Morgan 15 years ago in acrylic > lacquer and they are both fine and dandy with no > cracks or problems because they were bare metal > resprays using the correct primers. > Yes body work needs to be smooth with lacquer, but > believe me, I do my own and it needs to be smooth > under any paint system if you don't want to see it. > Does base coat clear coat look right on a TC or for > that matter any 50's or 60's British car? My opinion > only, but I think I prefer single stage as more in > keeping with originality. > cheers, > S. Stierman TC2911 > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[Donald Wilkinson]

digitaldon has found that 2 part polyurethane yacht finishes manufactured by Interlux, such as "Interthane" clear and colors (mixed) can be maintained in the freezer for 5 or 6 days. Don TC 7993 Grand Island NY USA