New XPEG blocks

[Andrew Clayton]

About 2 years ago, I bought an XPEG block which had a crack between cylinders 2 & 3. I originally thought about getting it repaired and building a nice motor for my TC but my brother, who is one of best lateral thinkers I know, suggested I think about using it as a pattern for re-casting new blocks. He happens to be in the CNC machinery field and one of his engineering customers by the name of John Trease is already doing this with Harley Davison blocks with a great deal of success, apparently having sold hundreds of the things in the USA. My brother (Marcus), John Trease and I sat down to talk about it and discovered that not only could we do it but we could make some significant improvements in the areas of crankshaft reliability (5 bearings, four-bolt bridges), water flow around the cylinders to avoid hot spots, stiffening of the crankcase walls and the bottom end in general and moving the cylinders further apart to allow for larger rebores (if desired), to stop the cracking problem between them and to also allow them to line up better with the combustion chambers in the heads. The bonus is that all this can be done while keeping the outside of the engine completely standard so it would look exactly the same as an original motor and all the ancillary bits (head, manifolds, starter motor, water pump, etc) would bolt straight on. We also decided we needed some MG expert help so we've enlisted Ian Mawson, a local MG fanatic who runs a couple of TC racecars as well as a few pre-war MG's and Ray Skewes, who is another local who is aware of the project and has helped out in various ways. Now this sort of project is not cheap and we've decided to make a limited run of 50 blocks to try to offset the costs a little. The patterns for the casting (which will be done to match the slightly rough sand-cast finish on original blocks) are nearly finished . Before we commit a large amount of money, I need some idea of what sort of interest there would be in these blocks. Talking with our local lads here in Melbourne, we reckon about 7 or 8 would be interested. Taking a guess about the rest of Australia, the UK and USA, I reckon we could manage to sell 50 but I would like other opinions from the group. Final costings have not been done but we think we would have to charge in the region of AUD 4,500 to 5,000 per block, fully machined and ready to bolt together. You would also need to buy an easily available off the shelf crankshaft, con rods, pistons and crankshaft seals. If for any reason you would want to use a standard 3 bearing XP*G crank, the 2 extra bearing bridges in the block could easily be machined out. We are designing these engines to be bullet proof and capable of withstanding horsepower outputs far in excess of anything you would want from a T-series. You could build one as a completely standard road engine or as a race car screamer, but either way, given normal maintenance and driving, we would expect them to last for many a long year. So, what say the group?? Do we go ahead and commit the funds, or cut our losses now and write it off as a good idea at the time? If you are interested, would you be prepared to pay a deposit up front? Is the price realistic or not? Let me know what you think - I'll be happy to answer any questions, whether by private email or on the forum. Andrew Clayton TC 4054 Melbourne, Australia. ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.7 - Release Date: 9/05/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[1939mgtb]

That is 3500 to 3900 bucks right now guys. It sounds like a bargain, esp. for those with supercharged engines. Best, Ray "Morology is our profession, our ONLY profession!"

----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Clayton" andyc@alphalink.com.au> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 2:36 AM Subject: [mg-tabc] New XPEG blocks > About 2 years ago, I bought an XPEG block which had a crack between > cylinders 2 & 3. I originally thought about getting it repaired and > building a nice motor for my TC but my brother, who is one of best lateral > thinkers I know, suggested I think about using it as a pattern for > re-casting new blocks. He happens to be in the CNC machinery field and one > of his engineering customers by the name of John Trease is already doing > this with Harley Davison blocks with a great deal of success, apparently > having sold hundreds of the things in the USA. > > My brother (Marcus), John Trease and I sat down to talk about it and > discovered that not only could we do it but we could make some significant > improvements in the areas of crankshaft reliability (5 bearings, four-bolt > bridges), water flow around the cylinders to avoid hot spots, stiffening > of the crankcase walls and the bottom end in general and moving the > cylinders further apart to allow for larger rebores (if desired), to stop > the cracking problem between them and to also allow them to line up better > with the combustion chambers in the heads. The bonus is that all this can > be done while keeping the outside of the engine completely standard so it > would look exactly the same as an original motor and all the ancillary > bits (head, manifolds, starter motor, water pump, etc) would bolt straight > on. We also decided we needed some MG expert help so we've enlisted Ian > Mawson, a local MG fanatic who runs a couple of TC racecars as well as a > few pre-war MG's and Ray Skewes, who is another local who is aware of the > project and has helped out in various ways. > > Now this sort of project is not cheap and we've decided to make a limited > run of 50 blocks to try to offset the costs a little. The patterns for the > casting (which will be done to match the slightly rough sand-cast finish > on original blocks) are nearly finished . Before we commit a large amount > of money, I need some idea of what sort of interest there would be in > these blocks. Talking with our local lads here in Melbourne, we reckon > about 7 or 8 would be interested. Taking a guess about the rest of > Australia, the UK and USA, I reckon we could manage to sell 50 but I would > like other opinions from the group. Final costings have not been done but > we think we would have to charge in the region of AUD 4,500 to 5,000 per > block, fully machined and ready to bolt together. You would also need to > buy an easily available off the shelf crankshaft, con rods, pistons and > crankshaft seals. If for any reason you would want to use a standard 3 > bearing XP*G crank, the 2 extra bearing bridges in the block could easily > be machined out. > > We are designing these engines to be bullet proof and capable of > withstanding horsepower outputs far in excess of anything you would want > from a T-series. You could build one as a completely standard road engine > or as a race car screamer, but either way, given normal maintenance and > driving, we would expect them to last for many a long year. > > So, what say the group?? Do we go ahead and commit the funds, or cut our > losses now and write it off as a good idea at the time? If you are > interested, would you be prepared to pay a deposit up front? Is the price > realistic or not? Let me know what you think - I'll be happy to answer any > questions, whether by private email or on the forum. > > Andrew Clayton > TC 4054 > Melbourne, Australia. > ---------- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.7 - Release Date: 9/05/2005 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[TMcNam4510@aol.com]

RE: Improved XPAG Blocks Does any one have any idea what shipping costs to NY, USA would be? BTW, could additional crank bearing supports be retro-fitted to existing blocks? Tom TC2850 (in 5000 pieces). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ron Simon]

It seems like very interesting idea, but why do it? There is no shortage of existing 1250cc blocks. With a little effort and less expense they can successfully be converted to 1500cc. Mike Goodman and Steve Tate worked out a way to bore and sleeve these blocks using a stepped sleeve and epoxy. My TC had one of the first ones done. I have over 10,000 miles on it including a GRAB trip to England in '98 with no problems. It even runs cooler than an XPEG because there is now water circulation between #2&3 cylinders. Except for an all out racer what value would a 5 bearing crank have in these small bore long stroke ancient design engines. Ron Simon (ex,a very long time ago TC racer) --- Andrew Clayton andyc@alphalink.com.au> wrote:

> About 2 years ago, I bought an XPEG block which had > a crack between cylinders 2 & 3. I originally > thought about getting it repaired and building a > nice motor for my TC but my brother, who is one of > best lateral thinkers I know, suggested I think > about using it as a pattern for re-casting new > blocks. He happens to be in the CNC machinery field > and one of his engineering customers by the name of > John Trease is already doing this with Harley > Davison blocks with a great deal of success, > apparently having sold hundreds of the things in the > USA. > > My brother (Marcus), John Trease and I sat down to > talk about it and discovered that not only could we > do it but we could make some significant > improvements in the areas of crankshaft reliability > (5 bearings, four-bolt bridges), water flow around > the cylinders to avoid hot spots, stiffening of the > crankcase walls and the bottom end in general and > moving the cylinders further apart to allow for > larger rebores (if desired), to stop the cracking > problem between them and to also allow them to line > up better with the combustion chambers in the heads. > The bonus is that all this can be done while keeping > the outside of the engine completely standard so it > would look exactly the same as an original motor and > all the ancillary bits (head, manifolds, starter > motor, water pump, etc) would bolt straight on. We > also decided we needed some MG expert help so we've > enlisted Ian Mawson, a local MG fanatic who runs a > couple of TC racecars as well as a few pre-war MG's > and Ray Skewes, who is another local who is aware of > the project and has helped out in various ways. > > Now this sort of project is not cheap and we've > decided to make a limited run of 50 blocks to try to > offset the costs a little. The patterns for the > casting (which will be done to match the slightly > rough sand-cast finish on original blocks) are > nearly finished . Before we commit a large amount of > money, I need some idea of what sort of interest > there would be in these blocks. Talking with our > local lads here in Melbourne, we reckon about 7 or 8 > would be interested. Taking a guess about the rest > of Australia, the UK and USA, I reckon we could > manage to sell 50 but I would like other opinions > from the group. Final costings have not been done > but we think we would have to charge in the region > of AUD 4,500 to 5,000 per block, fully machined and > ready to bolt together. You would also need to buy > an easily available off the shelf crankshaft, con > rods, pistons and crankshaft seals. If for any > reason you would want to use a standard 3 bearing > XP*G crank, the 2 extra bearing bridges in the block > could easily be machined out. > > We are designing these engines to be bullet proof > and capable of withstanding horsepower outputs far > in excess of anything you would want from a > T-series. You could build one as a completely > standard road engine or as a race car screamer, but > either way, given normal maintenance and driving, we > would expect them to last for many a long year. > > So, what say the group?? Do we go ahead and commit > the funds, or cut our losses now and write it off as > a good idea at the time? If you are interested, > would you be prepared to pay a deposit up front? Is > the price realistic or not? Let me know what you > think - I'll be happy to answer any questions, > whether by private email or on the forum. > > Andrew Clayton > TC 4054 > Melbourne, Australia. > ---------- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.7 - > Release Date: 9/05/2005 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mg-tabc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > >

Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

[D&J Edgar]

I am having trouble envisioning this new block. If you are moving the cylinders farther apart how can you then be able to use an old XP*G crank by cutting out the additional webs? And with cylinders further apart could an old cast iron head be bolted on or is the head part of the new package? As for the "easily available off the shelf crankshaft, con rods, pistons and crankshaft seals," is that from something modern and available world wide? Are we relying on the old cam and followers or is this also easily available? Lastly, what material is the new block made from? While this does sound intriguing I probably would not participate in the purchase but if my old block goes by the wayside who knows. David Edgar, TC 5108 El Cajon, California

On 5/12/05 12:36 AM, "Andrew Clayton" andyc@alphalink.com.au> wrote: > About 2 years ago, I bought an XPEG block which had a crack between cylinders > 2 & 3. I originally thought about getting it repaired and building a nice > motor for my TC but my brother, who is one of best lateral thinkers I know, > suggested I think about using it as a pattern for re-casting new blocks. He > happens to be in the CNC machinery field and one of his engineering customers > by the name of John Trease is already doing this with Harley Davison blocks > with a great deal of success, apparently having sold hundreds of the things in > the USA. > > My brother (Marcus), John Trease and I sat down to talk about it and > discovered that not only could we do it but we could make some significant > improvements in the areas of crankshaft reliability (5 bearings, four-bolt > bridges), water flow around the cylinders to avoid hot spots, stiffening of > the crankcase walls and the bottom end in general and moving the cylinders > further apart to allow for larger rebores (if desired), to stop the cracking > problem between them and to also allow them to line up better with the > combustion chambers in the heads. The bonus is that all this can be done while > keeping the outside of the engine completely standard so it would look exactly > the same as an original motor and all the ancillary bits (head, manifolds, > starter motor, water pump, etc) would bolt straight on. We also decided we > needed some MG expert help so we've enlisted Ian Mawson, a local MG fanatic > who runs a couple of TC racecars as well as a few pre-war MG's and Ray Skewes, > who is another local who is aware of the project and has helped out in various > ways. > > Now this sort of project is not cheap and we've decided to make a limited run > of 50 blocks to try to offset the costs a little. The patterns for the casting > (which will be done to match the slightly rough sand-cast finish on original > blocks) are nearly finished . Before we commit a large amount of money, I need > some idea of what sort of interest there would be in these blocks. Talking > with our local lads here in Melbourne, we reckon about 7 or 8 would be > interested. Taking a guess about the rest of Australia, the UK and USA, I > reckon we could manage to sell 50 but I would like other opinions from the > group. Final costings have not been done but we think we would have to charge > in the region of AUD 4,500 to 5,000 per block, fully machined and ready to > bolt together. You would also need to buy an easily available off the shelf > crankshaft, con rods, pistons and crankshaft seals. If for any reason you > would want to use a standard 3 bearing XP*G crank, the 2 extra bearing bridges > in the block could easily be machined out. > > We are designing these engines to be bullet proof and capable of withstanding > horsepower outputs far in excess of anything you would want from a T-series. > You could build one as a completely standard road engine or as a race car > screamer, but either way, given normal maintenance and driving, we would > expect them to last for many a long year. > > So, what say the group?? Do we go ahead and commit the funds, or cut our > losses now and write it off as a good idea at the time? If you are interested, > would you be prepared to pay a deposit up front? Is the price realistic or > not? Let me know what you think - I'll be happy to answer any questions, > whether by private email or on the forum. > > Andrew Clayton > TC 4054 > Melbourne, Australia. > ---------- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.7 - Release Date: 9/05/2005 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[Terry Sanders]

I saw the prototype of a newly cast XPAG block in England several years ago. Never did hear what happened to the project. Terry in Oakland Ron Simon simon90248@yahoo.com> wrote: It seems like very interesting idea, but why do it? There is no shortage of existing 1250cc blocks. With a little effort and less expense they can successfully be converted to 1500cc. Mike Goodman and Steve Tate worked out a way to bore and sleeve these blocks using a stepped sleeve and epoxy. My TC had one of the first ones done. I have over 10,000 miles on it including a GRAB trip to England in '98 with no problems. It even runs cooler than an XPEG because there is now water circulation between #2&3 cylinders. Except for an all out racer what value would a 5 bearing crank have in these small bore long stroke ancient design engines. Ron Simon (ex,a very long time ago TC racer) --- Andrew Clayton wrote:

> About 2 years ago, I bought an XPEG block which had > a crack between cylinders 2 & 3. I originally > thought about getting it repaired and building a > nice motor for my TC but my brother, who is one of > best lateral thinkers I know, suggested I think > about using it as a pattern for re-casting new > blocks. He happens to be in the CNC machinery field > and one of his engineering customers by the name of > John Trease is already doing this with Harley > Davison blocks with a great deal of success, > apparently having sold hundreds of the things in the > USA. > > My brother (Marcus), John Trease and I sat down to > talk about it and discovered that not only could we > do it but we could make some significant > improvements in the areas of crankshaft reliability > (5 bearings, four-bolt bridges), water flow around > the cylinders to avoid hot spots, stiffening of the > crankcase walls and the bottom end in general and > moving the cylinders further apart to allow for > larger rebores (if desired), to stop the cracking > problem between them and to also allow them to line > up better with the combustion chambers in the heads. > The bonus is that all this can be done while keeping > the outside of the engine completely standard so it > would look exactly the same as an original motor and > all the ancillary bits (head, manifolds, starter > motor, water pump, etc) would bolt straight on. We > also decided we needed some MG expert help so we've > enlisted Ian Mawson, a local MG fanatic who runs a > couple of TC racecars as well as a few pre-war MG's > and Ray Skewes, who is another local who is aware of > the project and has helped out in various ways. > > Now this sort of project is not cheap and we've > decided to make a limited run of 50 blocks to try to > offset the costs a little. The patterns for the > casting (which will be done to match the slightly > rough sand-cast finish on original blocks) are > nearly finished . Before we commit a large amount of > money, I need some idea of what sort of interest > there would be in these blocks. Talking with our > local lads here in Melbourne, we reckon about 7 or 8 > would be interested. Taking a guess about the rest > of Australia, the UK and USA, I reckon we could > manage to sell 50 but I would like other opinions > from the group. Final costings have not been done > but we think we would have to charge in the region > of AUD 4,500 to 5,000 per block, fully machined and > ready to bolt together. You would also need to buy > an easily available off the shelf crankshaft, con > rods, pistons and crankshaft seals. If for any > reason you would want to use a standard 3 bearing > XP*G crank, the 2 extra bearing bridges in the block > could easily be machined out. > > We are designing these engines to be bullet proof > and capable of withstanding horsepower outputs far > in excess of anything you would want from a > T-series. You could build one as a completely > standard road engine or as a race car screamer, but > either way, given normal maintenance and driving, we > would expect them to last for many a long year. > > So, what say the group?? Do we go ahead and commit > the funds, or cut our losses now and write it off as > a good idea at the time? If you are interested, > would you be prepared to pay a deposit up front? Is > the price realistic or not? Let me know what you > think - I'll be happy to answer any questions, > whether by private email or on the forum. > > Andrew Clayton > TC 4054 > Melbourne, Australia. > ---------- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.7 - > Release Date: 9/05/2005 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > mg-tabc-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > >

Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Donald Wilkinson]

Hey Andy: digitaldon is VERY intrigued by this project, but has many questions, and a certain inability to visualize this proposal. Surely, the drawings are completed by now; would you be willing to have Walter post them to the tabc website? This would surely be helpful. Don TC 7993 Grand Island NY USA

[Gene Gillam]

David wrote: "I am having trouble envisioning this new block. If you are moving the cylinders farther apart how can you then be able to use an old XP*G crank by cutting out the additional webs? And with cylinders further apart could an old cast iron head be bolted on or is the head part of the new package? As for the "easily available off the shelf crankshaft, con rods, pistons and crankshaft seals," is that from something modern and available world wide? Are we relying on the old cam and followers or is this also easily available? Lastly, what material is the new block made from?" Excellent questions, David, and I'm eagerly waiting the answers. I am interested in the new block but questions like these would have to be answered before I could commit to a down payment. Gene Gillam Saucier, MS -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 5/10/2005

[1939mgtb]

Y not Al? Lt wt, w/ stl lnrs...! Bst of bth wrlds. Best, Ray "Morology is our profession, our ONLY profession!"

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Gillam" anngene@bellsouth.net> To: "'TABC'" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 8:00 PM Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] New XPEG blocks > David wrote: > "I am having trouble envisioning this new block. If you are moving the > cylinders farther apart how can you then be able to use an old XP*G > crank by cutting out the additional webs? And with cylinders further > apart could an old cast iron head be bolted on or is the head part of > the new package? As for the "easily available off the shelf crankshaft, > con rods, pistons and crankshaft seals," is that from something modern > and available world wide? Are we relying on the old cam and followers or > is this also easily available? Lastly, what material is the new block > made from?" > > > Excellent questions, David, and I'm eagerly waiting the answers. I am > interested in the new block but questions like these would have to be > answered before I could commit to a down payment. > > Gene Gillam > Saucier, MS > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.8 - Release Date: 5/10/2005 > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >

[MIKEFRAN@aol.com]

Andy I'm just courious as to which 5 main crank you would use and if keeping the bore on the same centers as stock. I assume you would use the original head, and if so, would the block accomodate both round and banana heads? A further point about the crank, would you use stock rods? What would the stroke be? Stock? I'm sure more questions will arise. Mike Francks TC 8332 (already XPEG'ed) Littleton, CO [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]