rear edge of bonnet sides

[Mark M]

Fellows-

 

After the longest tub rebuild on record, I am finally beginning to mock-up a 'car' around the tub.

 

I have noticed that the rear edge of the bonnet side panels are not dead straight, but rather both sides have a very subtle arc to them, with the middle rear of the bonnet sides being the peak of the arc.

 

Comments welcome before I even think about grinding the edges dead straight, as I think there might be a reason for this subtle curve, as both bonnet sides have it (altho the left side is slightly more arced that the right), maybe more obvious once I start aligning the bonnet, checking front tub height, etc...

 

Thanks-

Mark TC8126

Ohio

[Roger Furneaux]

hi Mark - Tom Wilsom would know for sure, but the story is that bonnets were supplied a bit too long, and the guys on the assembly line used big tinsnips to trim them (they must have had a powerful grip!) and as two guys worked on the cars as they wernt down the line, L & R would be slightly different. Could be an old wives' tale, but.... Rgds Roger

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:03 PM 'Mark M' tc8126@earthlink.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u]

[u][/u] Fellows- After the longest tub rebuild on record, I am finally beginning to mock-up a 'car' around the tub. I have noticed that the rear edge of the bonnet side panels are not dead straight, but rather both sides have a very subtle arc to them, with the middle rear of the bonnet sides being the peak of the arc. Comments welcome before I even think about grinding the edges dead straight, as I think there might be a reason for this subtle curve, as both bonnet sides have it (altho the left side is slightly more arced that the right), maybe more obvious once I start aligning the bonnet, checking front tub height, etc... Thanks- Mark TC8126 Ohio

[John Kallend]

Maybe unrelated, but my (original) bonnet sides are slightly different in length. Suggests some hand trimming. _____________________________John KallendProfessor EmeritusDepartment of Mechanical, Materials and Aerospace EngineeringDepartment of PhysicsIIT, Chicago

On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 6:02 AM, Roger Furneaux roger.46tc@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] hi Mark - Tom Wilsom would know for sure, but the story is that bonnets were supplied a bit too long, and the guys on the assembly line used big tinsnips to trim them (they must have had a powerful grip!) and as two guys worked on the cars as they wernt down the line, L & R would be slightly different. Could be an old wives' tale, but.... Rgds Roger On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:03 PM 'Mark M' tc8126@earthlink.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] [u][/u] Fellows- After the longest tub rebuild on record, I am finally beginning to mock-up a 'car' around the tub. I have noticed that the rear edge of the bonnet side panels are not dead straight, but rather both sides have a very subtle arc to them, with the middle rear of the bonnet sides being the peak of the arc. Comments welcome before I even think about grinding the edges dead straight, as I think there might be a reason for this subtle curve, as both bonnet sides have it (altho the left side is slightly more arced that the right), maybe more obvious once I start aligning the bonnet, checking front tub height, etc... Thanks- Mark TC8126 Ohio

[Joe Curto]

Tom Wilson of this list  has documented proof that Bonnets were sized/trimmed on the assembly line at Abingdon using a special shear , I also heard that new replacement bonnets were sold over length and had to be trimmed Joe Curto 718-762-7878 www.joecurto.com -----Original Message----- From: 'Mark M' tc8126@earthlink.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: mg-tabc mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2018 6:13 pm Subject: [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides   Fellows-   After the longest tub rebuild on record, I am finally beginning to mock-up a 'car' around the tub.   I have noticed that the rear edge of the bonnet side panels are not dead straight, but rather both sides have a very subtle arc to them, with the middle rear of the bonnet sides being the peak of the arc.   Comments welcome before I even think about grinding the edges dead straight, as I think there might be a reason for this subtle curve, as both bonnet sides have it (altho the left side is slightly more arced that the right), maybe more obvious once I start aligning the bonnet, checking front tub height, etc...   Thanks- Mark TC8126 Ohio #ygrps-yiv-2078655173 #ygrps-yiv-2078655173AOLMsgPart_2_8d8db73d-9735-4d41-b8ec-b4d3be9df2cd td{color:black;}#ygrps-yiv-2078655173 .ygrps-yiv-2078655173aolReplacedBody #ygrps-yiv-2078655173aolmail_ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#ygrps-yiv-2078655173 .ygrps-yiv-2078655173aolReplacedBody #ygrps-yiv-2078655173aolmail_ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#ygrps-yiv-2078655173 .ygrps-yiv-2078655173aolReplacedBody #ygrps-yiv-2078655173aolmail_ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-2078655173aolmail_hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#ygrps-yiv-2078655173 .ygrps-yiv-2078655173aolReplacedBody #ygrps-yiv-2078655173aolmail_ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-2078655173aolmail_ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#ygrps-yiv-2078655173 .ygrps-yiv-2078655173aolReplacedBody 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[Bob Grunau]

Arc be because front thick wood piece may have been bent back slightly in the middle when the body metal was turned over?? Then bonnet made to suit? I would not trim anything till final fit.

Bob, Canada

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]John Kallend kallend@iit.edu [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, September 07, 2018 9:58 AM [b]To:[/b] Roger Furneaux [b]Cc:[/b] Mark M; MG-TABC List [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides

 

 

Maybe unrelated, but my (original) bonnet sides are slightly different in length.  Suggests some hand trimming.

_____________________________

John Kallend

Professor Emeritus

Department of Mechanical, Materials and Aerospace Engineering

Department of Physics

IIT, Chicago

 

On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 6:02 AM, Roger Furneaux roger.46tc@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

hi Mark - Tom Wilsom would know for sure, but the story is that bonnets were supplied a bit too long, and the guys on the assembly line used big tinsnips to trim them (they must have had a powerful grip!) and as two guys worked on the cars as they wernt down the line, L & R would be slightly different. Could be an old wives' tale, but....

 

Rgds

 

Roger 

 

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:03 PM 'Mark M' tc8126@earthlink.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Fellows-

 

After the longest tub rebuild on record, I am finally beginning to mock-up a 'car' around the tub.

 

I have noticed that the rear edge of the bonnet side panels are not dead straight, but rather both sides have a very subtle arc to them, with the middle rear of the bonnet sides being the peak of the arc.

 

Comments welcome before I even think about grinding the edges dead straight, as I think there might be a reason for this subtle curve, as both bonnet sides have it (altho the left side is slightly more arced that the right), maybe more obvious once I start aligning the bonnet, checking front tub height, etc...

 

Thanks-

Mark TC8126

Ohio

 

[diecuts2333]

All,   From what I recall of Tom's presentation on the trimming, it was the front of the bonnet side panels that were trimmed to match the radiator shell, not the rear that has the slight curve, which I believe is correct.      Perhaps they are emulating the Greek Parthenon, which has pillars with a slight curve, fatter in the middle, so they appear straight when viewed. Lee Jacobsen , Dearborn, MI  TA2969 Tickford, TC 0780 -----Original Message----- From: 'Bob Grunau' grunau.garage@sympatico.ca [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: 'John Kallend' kallend@iit.edu>; 'Roger Furneaux' roger.46tc@gmail.com> Cc: 'Mark M' tc8126@earthlink.net>; 'MG-TABC List' mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Sep 7, 2018 11:29 am Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides #ygrps-yiv-889680482 #ygrps-yiv-889680482AOLMsgPart_2_90ba5fe7-5787-43be-a110-2b79804d66c1 td{color:black;}#ygrps-yiv-889680482 .ygrps-yiv-889680482aolReplacedBody .ygrps-yiv-889680482aolmail_ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#ygrps-yiv-889680482 .ygrps-yiv-889680482aolReplacedBody div.ygrps-yiv-889680482aolmail_ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;height:62px;width:62px;}#ygrps-yiv-889680482 .ygrps-yiv-889680482aolReplacedBody 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bent back slightly in the middle when the body metal was turned over?? Then bonnet made to suit?  I would not trim anything till final fit. Bob, Canada [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com?] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]John Kallend kallend@iit.edu [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, September 07, 2018 9:58 AM [b]To:[/b] Roger Furneaux [b]Cc:[/b] Mark M; MG-TABC List [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides     Maybe unrelated, but my (original) bonnet sides are slightly different in length.  Suggests some hand trimming. _____________________________ John Kallend Professor Emeritus Department of Mechanical, Materials and Aerospace Engineering Department of Physics IIT, Chicago  

On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 6:02 AM, Roger Furneaux roger.46tc@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   hi Mark - Tom Wilsom would know for sure, but the story is that bonnets were supplied a bit too long, and the guys on the assembly line used big tinsnips to trim them (they must have had a powerful grip!) and as two guys worked on the cars as they wernt down the line, L & R would be slightly different. Could be an old wives' tale, but....   Rgds   Roger    On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:03 PM 'Mark M' tc8126@earthlink.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Fellows-   After the longest tub rebuild on record, I am finally beginning to mock-up a 'car' around the tub.   I have noticed that the rear edge of the bonnet side panels are not dead straight, but rather both sides have a very subtle arc to them, with the middle rear of the bonnet sides being the peak of the arc.   Comments welcome before I even think about grinding the edges dead straight, as I think there might be a reason for this subtle curve, as both bonnet sides have it (altho the left side is slightly more arced that the right), maybe more obvious once I start aligning the bonnet, checking front tub height, etc...   Thanks- Mark TC8126 Ohio

 

[motionwear]

Hi everyone - I m sort of out of touch right (traveling) now but have followed this with interest. Some quick notes, hoping I m correct: 1. I never noticed the curve on the rear of the side bonnet panels before; it s a great originality detail, and I have no idea why it was done. I think it unlikely that it started with TCs though - probably dates back well before that. Those with original TAs and TBs - want to check that rear edge with a straightedge and report? 2. Y all are correct that I ve stated it s likely that nay the front edge of the side bonnet panels were trimmed (if needed) on the track (body production line). My interviews with people on the line at that time indicate this, and factory photos show detail of tools and jigs used. I think, but don t know for sure, that this process changed over the years so that fewer panels needed to be trimmed. 3. I agree that replacement side panels were made long, requiring trimming. I have an unused set that came through Moss Motors in the mid 1960s that are long. 4. Why does the rear edge have a curve? Tom Wilson

[phil smith]

A connection to classic Greek culture does seem a likely possibility   To drive a TC, and especially in today's world,  requires the assistance of the God of Bravery, Testacles.  And, while it wasn't offered on the TC per se, TAs and TBs could be obtained in that unique color, Phartedon Brown.   (Sorry if any of you are Disciples of the Wholy Church of the PC and therefore offended.) (No, I'm not really sorry....this is a TC crowd.   Bawdy humor should be allowed if not required.)    From: "diecuts@aol.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] grunau.garage@sympatico.ca; kallend@iit.edu; roger.46tc@gmail.com [b]Cc:[/b] tc8126@earthlink.net; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, September 7, 2018 2:15 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides   All,   From what I recall of Tom's presentation on the trimming, it was the front of the bonnet side panels that were trimmed to match the radiator shell, not the rear that has the slight curve, which I believe is correct.      Perhaps they are emulating the Greek Parthenon, which has pillars with a slight curve, fatter in the middle, so they appear straight when viewed. Lee Jacobsen , Dearborn, MI  TA2969 Tickford, TC 0780 -----Original Message----- From: 'Bob Grunau' grunau.garage@sympatico.ca [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: 'John Kallend' kallend@iit.edu>; 'Roger Furneaux' roger.46tc@gmail.com> Cc: 'Mark M' tc8126@earthlink.net>; 'MG-TABC List' mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Fri, Sep 7, 2018 11:29 am Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides Arc be because front thick wood piece may have been bent back slightly in the middle when the body metal was turned over?? Then bonnet made to suit?  I would not trim anything till final fit. Bob, Canada [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com?] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]John Kallend kallend@iit.edu [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Friday, September 07, 2018 9:58 AM [b]To:[/b] Roger Furneaux [b]Cc:[/b] Mark M; MG-TABC List [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] rear edge of bonnet sides     Maybe unrelated, but my (original) bonnet sides are slightly different in length.  Suggests some hand trimming. _____________________________ John Kallend Professor Emeritus Department of Mechanical, Materials and Aerospace Engineering Department of Physics IIT, Chicago  

On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 6:02 AM, Roger Furneaux roger.46tc@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   hi Mark - Tom Wilsom would know for sure, but the story is that bonnets were supplied a bit too long, and the guys on the assembly line used big tinsnips to trim them (they must have had a powerful grip!) and as two guys worked on the cars as they wernt down the line, L & R would be slightly different. Could be an old wives' tale, but....   Rgds   Roger    On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 11:03 PM 'Mark M' tc8126@earthlink.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Fellows-   After the longest tub rebuild on record, I am finally beginning to mock-up a 'car' around the tub.   I have noticed that the rear edge of the bonnet side panels are not dead straight, but rather both sides have a very subtle arc to them, with the middle rear of the bonnet sides being the peak of the arc.   Comments welcome before I even think about grinding the edges dead straight, as I think there might be a reason for this subtle curve, as both bonnet sides have it (altho the left side is slightly more arced that the right), maybe more obvious once I start aligning the bonnet, checking front tub height, etc...   Thanks- Mark TC8126 Ohio

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[lout_ca]

> The rear edge of the bonnet is meant to appear as straight when viewed > from the side, or at any rate, it is shown that way on the factory > drawing. > > The side panel of the bonnet is not a plane surface, but curves outward > from top to bottom. The bonnet also tapers from narrow at the front to > wider at the rear. Obviously, then, if the rear edge of the bonnet WAS > straight on the flat sheet, the rear edge would appear to be curved, > convex forward, when viewed directly from the side. > > The slight convex curve to the rear is required to counter this undesired > illusion. Similarly, the upward curve of the top line of the tub, behind > the seats, is necessary to counter the illusion that the top line sags, as > would appear, due to the outward curve of the tub side, when the car was > viewed from normal eye height when a short distance away from the side of > the car, if the top line was straight and level in an orthographic side > view. > > Dave Cameron > Metcalfe, Ontario > > > >> Fellows- >> >> After the longest tub rebuild on record, I am finally beginning to >> mock-up >> a 'car' around the tub. >> >> I have noticed that the rear edge of the bonnet side panels are not dead >> straight, but rather both sides have a very subtle arc to them, with the >> middle rear of the bonnet sides being the peak of the arc. >> >> Comments welcome before I even think about grinding the edges dead >> straight, as I think there might be a reason for this subtle curve, as >> both bonnet sides have it (altho the left side is slightly more arced >> that >> the right), maybe more obvious once I start aligning the bonnet, >> checking >> front tub height, etc... >> >> Thanks- >> Mark TC8126 >> Ohio > > >

[lout_ca]

I never did and still don't think that the red TC looked funny. But, since you mention it, there is a distinct forward curve to the rear edge of the bonnet side, and that may well be the consequence of making the rear edge straight. Frankly, I never noticed it before, on that car or other TC's. In fact, I assumed the rear edge should be straight, until the question arose. Looking at various pictures, it obvious that some builders or restorers got it "right", and some didn't. Geometry is geometry, and the inevitable consequence of the joint between the scuttle and the quarter forward quarter panel lying in a flat plane, the outward curve from top to bottom of the bonnet side, and the taper of the bonnet dictate that the rear edge of the side panel must be a slight convex curve if the bonnet edge is to look straight in a direct side view. Does it matter? The point is, nobody should trim a nicely fitting bonnet edge to a straight line in the mistaken belief that it "should" be straight. Dave Cameron Metcalfe, Ontario

> Interesting. That would explain why so many over-restored TC's "look > funny" in the bonnet area. Like the red TC on the FromTheFrameUp web > page.Duncan-N. CA > > On Friday, September 7, 2018, 1:57:53 PM PDT, kdcamer@295.ca [mg-tabc] > mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > >> The rear edge of the bonnet is meant to appear as straight when viewed >> from the side, or at any rate, it is shown that way on the factory >> drawing. >> >> The side panel of the bonnet is not a plane surface, but curves outward >> from top to bottom. The bonnet also tapers from narrow at the front to >> wider at the rear. Obviously, then, if the rear edge of the bonnet WAS >> straight on the flat sheet, the rear edge would appear to be curved, >> convex forward, when viewed directly from the side. >> >> The slight convex curve to the rear is required to counter this >> undesired >> illusion. Similarly, the upward curve of the top line of the tub, behind >> the seats, is necessary to counter the illusion that the top line sags, >> as >> would appear, due to the outward curve of the tub side, when the car was >> viewed from normal eye height when a short distance away from the side >> of >> the car, if the top line was straight and level in an orthographic side >> view. >> >> Dave Cameron >> Metcalfe, Ontario >> >> >> >>> Fellows- >>> >>> After the longest tub rebuild on record, I am finally beginning to >>> mock-up >>> a 'car' around the tub. >>> >>> I have noticed that the rear edge of the bonnet side panels are not >>> dead >>> straight, but rather both sides have a very subtle arc to them, with >>> the >>> middle rear of the bonnet sides being the peak of the arc. >>> >>> Comments welcome before I even think about grinding the edges dead >>> straight, as I think there might be a reason for this subtle curve, as >>> both bonnet sides have it (altho the left side is slightly more arced >>> that >>> the right), maybe more obvious once I start aligning the bonnet, >>> checking >>> front tub height, etc... >>> >>> Thanks- >>> Mark TC8126 >>> Ohio >> >> >> > > >