MG-B plastic fan

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MARION
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:16 am

MG-B plastic fan

Post by MARION » Sun May 27, 2018 1:36 pm

I am needing to do some upgrades to keep the engine cool and am wondering if the Moss fan number 434-332 will work on our TC. And is the spacer 434-341 or 434-375 needed? Pull and Pay in our area have no MG-B's.

Marion Moll

TC 10219

Albuquerque, NM

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CHARLES HUGHES
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:07 pm

Re: MG-B plastic fan

Post by CHARLES HUGHES » Mon May 28, 2018 7:33 am

I have the yellow 7-blade plastic fan (434-332) on both my TD and TF.  When fitting one needs to eliminate the TD-TF fan spacer (434-070).that is normally used with the original metal fan blades and use the shorter TC fan bolts (320-110).  The TC does not have this spacer, which leads me to believe that the TC radiator must sit closer to the water pump than does the TD or TF radiator.  There might be a clearance issue if trying to use the plastic fan on a TC. The MGB spacer is intended for use when fitting the seven blade plastic fan in the later model MGBs with the forward mounted radiator.  Truly efficient cooling is not really obtained on an MGB without also fitting a fan shroud when combining a water pump mounted fan with a forward mounted radiator. - Mike Hughes  - -  '37 TA 0512 On Sunday, May 27, 2018 4:37 PM, "MARION marionmoll7@msn.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   I am needing to do some upgrades to keep the engine cool and am wondering if the Moss fan number 434-332 will work on our TC. And is the spacer 434-341 or 434-375 needed? Pull and Pay in our area have no MG-B's. 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Jean Vignau
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:45 am

Re: MG-B plastic fan

Post by Jean Vignau » Mon May 28, 2018 8:01 am

On TB0592, it went first time without any mod. Jean in rainy Gascony
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Joe Curto
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:03 am

Re: MG-B plastic fan

Post by Joe Curto » Mon May 28, 2018 8:12 am

The other issue to fitting an MGB fan to a T type  is that the centering hole in the fan is larger than the centering boss on the water pump, My Pal Rob Medynski  solved this issue by fitting an O ring to the boss on the pump and then fitting the fan , neglecting this makes the fan wobble Regarding water pumps I just purchased a T type pump from Moss USA, while it looks like the original casting ( less grease fitting) the internals are modern they are still using ball bearings but the seal is a modern " unitized Seal" which means it seals against itself  so the impellers only function is to move the water. These seals are what is used on modern water pumps and they are very reliable  , They also have a 6 blade impeller and the finish  appears to, be powder coat, these  looks to be a vast improvement over original design and the price was around 80.00  (I know this will spark conversation so those of you who want to rebuild original pumps no worries) Joe Curto 718-762-7878 www.joecurto.com -----Original Message----- From: CHARLES HUGHES hughes.c.m@att.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: mg-tabc mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, May 28, 2018 10:48 am Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] MG-B plastic fan   I have the yellow 7-blade plastic fan (434-332) on both my TD and TF.  When fitting one needs to eliminate the TD-TF fan spacer (434-070).that is normally used with the original metal fan blades and use the shorter TC fan bolts (320-110).  The TC does not have this spacer, which leads me to believe that the TC radiator must sit closer to the water pump than does the TD or TF radiator.  There might be a clearance issue if trying to use the plastic fan on a TC. The MGB spacer is intended for use when fitting the seven blade plastic fan in the later model MGBs with the forward mounted radiator.  Truly efficient cooling is not really obtained on an MGB without also fitting a fan shroud when combining a water pump mounted fan with a forward mounted radiator. - Mike Hughes  - -   '37 TA 0512 On Sunday, May 27, 2018 4:37 PM, "MARION marionmoll7@msn.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   I am needing to do some upgrades to keep the engine cool and am wondering if the Moss fan number 434-332 will work on our TC. And is the spacer 434-341 or 434-375 needed? Pull and Pay in our area have no MG-B's. Marion Moll TC 10219 Albuquerque, NM #ygrps-yiv-2073615719 #ygrps-yiv-2073615719AOLMsgPart_2_d272b492-d7bb-4fe1-807b-2d5804c9878b td{color:black;}#ygrps-yiv-2073615719 .ygrps-yiv-2073615719aolReplacedBody #ygrps-yiv-2073615719aolmail_ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#ygrps-yiv-2073615719 .ygrps-yiv-2073615719aolReplacedBody #ygrps-yiv-2073615719aolmail_ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#ygrps-yiv-2073615719 .ygrps-yiv-2073615719aolReplacedBody #ygrps-yiv-2073615719aolmail_ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-2073615719aolmail_hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#ygrps-yiv-2073615719 .ygrps-yiv-2073615719aolReplacedBody #ygrps-yiv-2073615719aolmail_ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-2073615719aolmail_ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#ygrps-yiv-2073615719 .ygrps-yiv-2073615719aolReplacedBody #ygrps-yiv-2073615719aolmail_ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-2073615719aolmail_ad {padding:0 0;}#ygrps-yiv-2073615719 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M. P.
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: MG-B plastic fan

Post by M. P. » Mon May 28, 2018 9:27 am

Attachments :
    [*][url=file:///C:\Users\Steve\AppData\Local\PG Offline 4\Attachments\\Modified fan.jpg]Modified fan.jpg[/url]
    [*][url=file:///C:\Users\Steve\AppData\Local\PG Offline 4\Attachments\\Modified fan hub assembly.jpg]Modified fan hub assembly.jpg[/url]
    [*][url=file:///C:\Users\Steve\AppData\Local\PG Offline 4\Attachments\\Modified fan assembly complete.jpg]Modified fan assembly complete.jpg[/url]
I modified the fan spacer and a MGB 6 bladed metal fan for our TC.  It looks more "period" correct, does not encroach any further into the open space between fan and radiator than the original and provides arguably 50% more cooling air flow than original.   My design has been implemented on at least two other TC;s with repeated success.  The MGB 6 blade metal fan was only used from 1968 to 1973, but they can still be found on eBay and through numerous club sites.  "1968- early '73 RD from (c)138401 to 306256, GT from (c)139472 to 309325"    It does not flex as the plastic fan can and also has been reported on a few occasions to interfere with the radiator fins with some mods.    Drawings and details available upon request.    Marv
On Sunday , May 27 , 2018 03 : 37 : 15 PM CDT, MARION marionmoll7@msn.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
  I am needing to do some upgrades to keep the engine cool and am wondering if the Moss fan number 434-332 will work on our TC. And is the spacer 434-341 or 434-375 needed? Pull and Pay in our area have no MG-B's.

Marion Moll

TC 10219

Albuquerque, NM

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Steve S
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:56 pm

Re: MG-B plastic fan

Post by Steve S » Mon May 28, 2018 1:53 pm

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color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#ygrps-yiv-1493950995 #ygrps-yiv-1493950995 #ygrps-yiv-1493950995aqm-original #ygrps-yiv-1493950995ygrp-reco { margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#ygrps-yiv-1493950995 #ygrps-yiv-1493950995 #ygrps-yiv-1493950995aqm-original #ygrps-yiv-1493950995ygrp-sponsor #ygrps-yiv-1493950995ov li a { font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#ygrps-yiv-1493950995 #ygrps-yiv-1493950995 #ygrps-yiv-1493950995aqm-original #ygrps-yiv-1493950995ygrp-sponsor #ygrps-yiv-1493950995ov li { font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#ygrps-yiv-1493950995 #ygrps-yiv-1493950995 #ygrps-yiv-1493950995aqm-original #ygrps-yiv-1493950995ygrp-sponsor #ygrps-yiv-1493950995ov ul { margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}#ygrps-yiv-1493950995 #ygrps-yiv-1493950995 #ygrps-yiv-1493950995aqm-original #ygrps-yiv-1493950995ygrp-text { font-family:Georgia;}#ygrps-yiv-1493950995 #ygrps-yiv-1493950995 #ygrps-yiv-1493950995aqm-original #ygrps-yiv-1493950995ygrp-text p { margin:0 0 1em 0;}#ygrps-yiv-1493950995 #ygrps-yiv-1493950995 #ygrps-yiv-1493950995aqm-original #ygrps-yiv-1493950995ygrp-text tt { font-size:120%;}#ygrps-yiv-1493950995 #ygrps-yiv-1493950995 #ygrps-yiv-1493950995aqm-original #ygrps-yiv-1493950995ygrp-vital ul li:last-child { border-right:none !important;}#ygrps-yiv-1493950995 I threw a blade on my MGA once. Luckily it went down and only scratched a single bolt head.  Later inspection showed stress lines at the base which had been covered up with fresh paint by the previous owner.  I inspect my fans now about once per year just to be safe.  I don't like plastic fans on old cars either so I still run the stock fan on my TC.  No cooking issues.  Plastic fans throw blades too, bit the damage isn't as severe when they do. Also worth noting, when I removed the broken fan on the MGA to drive home, the engine felt much smoother. So that fan was out of balance, and I wonder if 50 years of the blades stretching had anything to do with it.  Could have been like that from the start I suppose, but it goes to show that these things should be checked. - Steve Simmons, TC8975
On May 28, 2018 1:35:04 PM "'M. P.' imabystander@yahoo.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Don't doubt that happens although we have never had a case of a thrown blade in the 23 years of our club that sports many early B's and GT's.  On the blades I have retrofitted, I have always had them checked for mechanical integrity and magnafluxed.  To each his own.    Just don't like the look of a plastic fan on a T-series car.... On Monday , May 28 , 2018 01 : 59 : 30 PM CDT, CHARLES HUGHES hughes.c.m@att.net> wrote: Just a word of caution about the original equipment "T' series fans as well as the later three and six-blade MGA/MGB fans:  Note the blades are riveted to the hub.  The hub is a thick stout steel stamping.  The blades are thin pressed sheet metal.  The steel blades do try to flex but only the top portion that is not reinforced by the being riveted to the hub actually gets to flex.  After a few years these fans had a propensity to throw a blade - the blades would develop stress cracks and break off above the rivets.   This was a notorious problem in the 60s and 70s.  One of our Chesapeake Chapter members threw a blade on his TD while on a tour.  Fortunately the blade was thrown down to the road.  The the four blade fan on a "T" is actually two two-blade fans bolted across each other. So all he had to do was remove the broken one and continue on with just a two blade fan.  My MGB-GT used to have an aluminum hood.  It now has a reproduction steel hood after the six-blade fan threw a blade straight up through the hood.  That's when I trashed all the steel blade fans on all my M.G.s and replaced them with plastic fans. The steel fans have been decorating my garage wall for over 30 years. - Mike  Hughes  - -  '37 TA 0512 On Monday, May 28, 2018 1:22 PM, "'M. P.' imabystander@yahoo.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   I modified the fan spacer and a MGB 6 bladed metal fan for our TC.  It looks more "period" correct, does not encroach any further into the open space between fan and radiator than the original and provides arguably 50% more cooling air flow than original.   My design has been implemented on at least two other TC;s with repeated success.  The MGB 6 blade metal fan was only used from 1968 to 1973, but they can still be found on eBay and through numerous club sites.  "1968- early '73 RD from (c)138401 to 306256, GT from (c)139472 to 309325"    It does not flex as the plastic fan can and also has been reported on a few occasions to interfere with the radiator fins with some mods.    Drawings and details available upon request.    Marv On Sunday , May 27 , 2018 03 : 37 : 15 PM CDT, MARION marionmoll7@msn.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   I am needing to do some upgrades to keep the engine cool and am wondering if the Moss fan number 434-332 will work on our TC. And is the spacer 434-341 or 434-375 needed? Pull and Pay in our area have no MG-B's. Marion Moll TC 10219 Albuquerque, NM
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Malcolm Scanlan
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:40 am

Re: MG-B plastic fan

Post by Malcolm Scanlan » Mon May 28, 2018 4:40 pm

Attachments :
    [*][url=file:///C:\Users\Steve\AppData\Local\PG Offline 4\Attachments\\DSCN1999.JPG]DSCN1999.JPG[/url]
    [*][url=file:///C:\Users\Steve\AppData\Local\PG Offline 4\Attachments\\DSCN1997.JPG]DSCN1997.JPG[/url]
Greetings,

I tried to fit the MGB fan on my TC but although the fit on the hub was good the blade tips were dangerously close to the flat bar which runs across between where the headlamp secure through the rad shell.  Maybe my engine is mounted in the wrong place or other TC's are not fitted with the cross bar?  See attached pictures. Is my car different than others in the way this is put together?

Malcolm

TC 6944

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Joe Curto joecurto@aol.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] May 28, 2018 8:12 AM [b]To:[/b] hughes.c.m@att.net; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] MG-B plastic fan     The other issue to fitting an MGB fan to a T type  is that the centering hole in the fan is larger than the centering boss on the water pump, My Pal Rob Medynski  solved this issue by fitting an O ring to the boss on the pump and then fitting the fan , neglecting this makes the fan wobble Regarding water pumps I just purchased a T type pump from Moss USA, while it looks like the original casting ( less grease fitting) the internals are modern they are still using ball bearings but the seal is a modern " unitized Seal" which means it seals against itself  so the impellers only function is to move the water. These seals are what is used on modern water pumps and they are very reliable  , They also have a 6 blade impeller and the finish  appears to, be powder coat, these  looks to be a vast improvement over original design and the price was around 80.00  (I know this will spark conversation so those of you who want to rebuild original pumps no worries) Joe Curto 718-762-7878 www.joecurto.com [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.virbcdn.com%2Fcdn_images%2Fresize_800x800%2F5d%2Fc5c207890d020282-ScreenShot2016-05-01at121346PM.png&t=1527959514&sig=3vy19Tzjz8ZzDYGcAaEkxg--~D[/img] JOE CURTO, INC. www.joecurto.com Joe Curto, INC, British Superior. Supplier of British Carburettor (SU and Zenith) parts -----Original Message----- From: CHARLES HUGHES hughes.c.m@att.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: mg-tabc mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, May 28, 2018 10:48 am Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] MG-B plastic fan   I have the yellow 7-blade plastic fan (434-332) on both my TD and TF.  When fitting one needs to eliminate the TD-TF fan spacer (434-070).that is normally used with the original metal fan blades and use the shorter TC fan bolts (320-110).  The TC does not have this spacer, which leads me to believe that the TC radiator must sit closer to the water pump than does the TD or TF radiator.  There might be a clearance issue if trying to use the plastic fan on a TC. The MGB spacer is intended for use when fitting the seven blade plastic fan in the later model MGBs with the forward mounted radiator.  Truly efficient cooling is not really obtained on an MGB without also fitting a fan shroud when combining a water pump mounted fan with a forward mounted radiator. - Mike Hughes  - -   '37 TA 0512 On Sunday, May 27, 2018 4:37 PM, "MARION marionmoll7@msn.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   I am needing to do some upgrades to keep the engine cool and am wondering if the Moss fan number 434-332 will work on our TC. And is the spacer 434-341 or 434-375 needed? Pull and Pay in our area have no MG-B's. Marion Moll TC 10219 Albuquerque, NM
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CHARLES HUGHES
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:07 pm

Re: MG-B plastic fan

Post by CHARLES HUGHES » Mon May 28, 2018 5:47 pm

All "T" radiators have this tie bar.  It, and the headlamp support brackets act to stabilize the front fenders.   OK, here is where the 6-blade metal MGB fan can possibly be useful, and perhaps a better solution than a seven-blade plastic fan.  You will notice that each of the blades have a notch taken out of the leading edge.  As mounted on an MGB that edge faces forward towards the radiator, and the straight edge faces towards the engine.  The purpose of the notch was to help prevent the tips of the blades from hitting and possibly slicing through the bottom tank of an MGB radiator in the event the engine were to move forward on broken rubber motor mounts.  This notch will also give a little more clearance between the fan blades and the tie bar on a TC. Seeing your photos confirms what I suggested in my original reply,  The engine sits farther back from the radiator in a TD/TF than it does in a TC.  Both of those cars have a spacer that is more than an inch thick that goes between the fan and the water pump so that the fan blades sit closer to the radiator, similarly to how close they are on your TC.  The only way to mount the 7-blade plastic fan on a TD/TF is to eliminate the spacer, otherwise it will hit the tie bar.  On your TC there is no spacer to eliminate and the seven-blade fan will absolutely hit the tie bar. So if you elect to upgrade to one of these six-blade metal fans, be careful to mount it with the notches facing FORWARD toward the radiator and PLEASE have it checked out for structural integrity like M.P. suggests before mounting! - Mike Hughes  - -  '37 TA 0512  On Monday, May 28, 2018 7:40 PM, Malcolm Scanlan MalcolmScanlan@hotmail.com> wrote: #ygrps-yiv-1902533621 #ygrps-yiv-1902533621yiv1584783774 #ygrps-yiv-1902533621yiv1584783774 -- P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}#ygrps-yiv-1902533621 Greetings, I tried to fit the MGB fan on my TC but although the fit on the hub was good the blade tips were dangerously close to the flat bar which runs across between where the headlamp secure through the rad shell.  Maybe my engine is mounted in the wrong place or other TC's are not fitted with the cross bar?  See attached pictures. Is my car different than others in the way this is put together? Malcolm TC 6944 [b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Joe Curto joecurto@aol.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] May 28, 2018 8:12 AM [b]To:[/b] hughes.c.m@att.net; mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] MG-B plastic fan     The other issue to fitting an MGB fan to a T type  is that the centering hole in the fan is larger than the centering boss on the water pump, My Pal Rob Medynski  solved this issue by fitting an O ring to the boss on the pump and then fitting the fan , neglecting this makes the fan wobble Regarding water pumps I just purchased a T type pump from Moss USA, while it looks like the original casting ( less grease fitting) the internals are modern they are still using ball bearings but the seal is a modern " unitized Seal" which means it seals against itself  so the impellers only function is to move the water. These seals are what is used on modern water pumps and they are very reliable  , They also have a 6 blade impeller and the finish  appears to, be powder coat, these  looks to be a vast improvement over original design and the price was around 80.00  (I know this will spark conversation so those of you who want to rebuild original pumps no worries) Joe Curto 718-762-7878 www.joecurto.com [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.virbcdn.com%2Fcdn_images%2Fresize_800x800%2F5d%2Fc5c207890d020282-ScreenShot2016-05-01at121346PM.png&t=1527959514&sig=3vy19Tzjz8ZzDYGcAaEkxg--~D[/img] JOE CURTO, INC. www.joecurto.com Joe Curto, INC, British Superior. Supplier of British Carburettor (SU and Zenith) parts -----Original Message----- From: CHARLES HUGHES hughes.c.m@att.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> To: mg-tabc mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, May 28, 2018 10:48 am Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] MG-B plastic fan   I have the yellow 7-blade plastic fan (434-332) on both my TD and TF.  When fitting one needs to eliminate the TD-TF fan spacer (434-070).that is normally used with the original metal fan blades and use the shorter TC fan bolts (320-110).  The TC does not have this spacer, which leads me to believe that the TC radiator must sit closer to the water pump than does the TD or TF radiator.  There might be a clearance issue if trying to use the plastic fan on a TC. The MGB spacer is intended for use when fitting the seven blade plastic fan in the later model MGBs with the forward mounted radiator.  Truly efficient cooling is not really obtained on an MGB without also fitting a fan shroud when combining a water pump mounted fan with a forward mounted radiator. - Mike Hughes  - -   '37 TA 0512 On Sunday, May 27, 2018 4:37 PM, "MARION marionmoll7@msn.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   I am needing to do some upgrades to keep the engine cool and am wondering if the Moss fan number 434-332 will work on our TC. And is the spacer 434-341 or 434-375 needed? Pull and Pay in our area have no MG-B's. Marion Moll TC 10219 Albuquerque, NM
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Roger Bateman
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:03 pm

Re: MG-B plastic fan

Post by Roger Bateman » Tue May 29, 2018 3:02 am

I fitted an MGB 7-blade plastic fan to TC2456. It fits straight on to the water pump without a spacer but using slightly longer HT bolts with high-strength Loctite for belt and braces.
Yes, it is close to the bar across the radiator, but clearance is easily obtained by adjusting the rad support bars. It is only the bar that it might touch, not the delicate and more important rad fins.
Roger
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Doug Pelton
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 12:27 pm

Re: MG-B plastic fan

Post by Doug Pelton » Tue May 29, 2018 8:46 am

Greetings to all,

 

I followed the extensive discussion on using the 7 blade fan to cure the over heat problem on the XPAG.  However, if you have an over heat problem you should be looking at the root cause.  It may be you have other issues with your car.

 

I wrote an article a while back that can be read in TTT2;

http://ttypes.org/ttt2/xpag-overheat-an-unexpected-but-common-cause

 

If you want to supplement your cooling then yes the 7 blade can assist.  I have this and all the other items mentioned in the article to help.

 

Best regards,

 

[b][i]Doug Pelton,[/i][/b] Proprietor

From The Frame Up

480-588-8185

For Fastest Service:  order@fromtheframeup.com

Like us on FACEBOOK!

See us on YouTUBE!

 

www.FromTheFrameUp.com

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]On Behalf Of [/b]MARION marionmoll7@msn.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Sunday, May 27, 2018 1:35 PM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] MG-B plastic fan

 

 

I am needing to do some upgrades to keep the engine cool and am wondering if the Moss fan number 434-332 will work on our TC. And is the spacer 434-341 or 434-375 needed? Pull and Pay in our area have no MG-B's.

 

Marion Moll

TC 10219

Albuquerque, NM

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