rocker arme clearence again....

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bgrumer
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:31 am

rocker arme clearence again....

Post by bgrumer » Wed May 09, 2018 1:54 am

Friends

This subject was addressed for several times, But the issue of the first engine start after a restoration was not covered. As per the manufacturer the gap of the rocker arm should be set at a hot engine, what gap should be set at the first start? (cold engine). On other engines (not MG) the gap is deferent for the intake and exhaust valve , the exhaust valve has a greater clearance as it is much hotter than the intake valve. what determines the rocker gap  beside the temperature of the valves , heads and camshaft lobs? as I understood the gap is required to prevent a condition where the valve will not close complete, the small gap between the valve mushroom and the seat will allow the hot combustion gasses to burn the valve and the valve seat. From listening to some TC's engine set at 0.019" gap I was impressed that the ticking is very loud. Does someone had experience adjusting the valve gap on a running engine?

Thanks and regards.

Benny

 

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Stephen D Stierman
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:04 am

Re: rocker arme clearence again....

Post by Stephen D Stierman » Wed May 09, 2018 3:04 am

There is no need to adjust the valves on a running engine.  If first start up is a concern for you just initially adjust the valves slightly sloppy and when hot readjust to the proper clearance and all will be well.Steve TC2911 [b]From:[/b] "jaguarb@inter.net.il [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, May 9, 2018 4:54 AM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] rocker arme clearence again....   FriendsThis subject was addressed for several times, But the issue of the first engine start after a restoration was not covered. As per the manufacturer the gap of the rocker arm should be set at a hot engine, what gap should be set at the first start? (cold engine). On other engines (not MG) the gap is deferent for the intake and exhaust valve , the exhaust valve has a greater clearance as it is much hotter than the intake valve. what determines the rocker gap  beside the temperature of the valves , heads and camshaft lobs? as I understood the gap is required to prevent a condition where the valve will not close complete, the small gap between the valve mushroom and the seat will allow the hot combustion gasses to burn the valve and the valve seat. From listening to some TC's engine set at 0.019" gap I was impressed that the ticking is very loud. Does someone had experience adjusting the valve gap on a running engine?Thanks and regards.Benny   #ygrps-yiv-1754430884 #ygrps-yiv-1754430884yiv8733142496 #ygrps-yiv-1754430884yiv8733142496 -- #ygrps-yiv-1754430884yiv8733142496ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1754430884 #ygrps-yiv-1754430884yiv8733142496 #ygrps-yiv-1754430884yiv8733142496ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-1754430884 #ygrps-yiv-1754430884yiv8733142496 #ygrps-yiv-1754430884yiv8733142496ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1754430884yiv8733142496hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1754430884 #ygrps-yiv-1754430884yiv8733142496 #ygrps-yiv-1754430884yiv8733142496ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1754430884yiv8733142496ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1754430884 #ygrps-yiv-1754430884yiv8733142496 #ygrps-yiv-1754430884yiv8733142496ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-1754430884yiv8733142496ad { padding:0 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1754430884 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Duncan
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:04 pm

Re: rocker arme clearence again....

Post by Duncan » Wed May 09, 2018 3:01 pm

Steve, I think Benny is talking about checking the valve lash using a vacuum gauge while engine running, for a performance tune up.  Look for greatest vacuum without flutter, engine hot. Or maybe he wants very quiet (tight) valve lash for car show judges, and to and from trailer? Adjustment for one pretty much precludes the other. Duncan-TC9866
On Wednesday, May 9, 2018, 3:04:25 AM PDT, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
  There is no need to adjust the valves on a running engine.  If first start up is a concern for you just initially adjust the valves slightly sloppy and when hot readjust to the proper clearance and all will be well.Steve TC2911 [b]From:[/b] "jaguarb@inter.net.il [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, May 9, 2018 4:54 AM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] rocker arme clearence again....   FriendsThis subject was addressed for several times, But the issue of the first engine start after a restoration was not covered. As per the manufacturer the gap of the rocker arm should be set at a hot engine, what gap should be set at the first start? (cold engine). On other engines (not MG) the gap is deferent for the intake and exhaust valve , the exhaust valve has a greater clearance as it is much hotter than the intake valve. what determines the rocker gap  beside the temperature of the valves , heads and camshaft lobs? as I understood the gap is required to prevent a condition where the valve will not close complete, the small gap between the valve mushroom and the seat will allow the hot combustion gasses to burn the valve and the valve seat. From listening to some TC's engine set at 0.019" gap I was impressed that the ticking is very loud. Does someone had experience adjusting the valve gap on a running engine?Thanks and regards.Benny  
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Stephen D Stierman
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:04 am

Re: rocker arme clearence again....

Post by Stephen D Stierman » Wed May 09, 2018 4:39 pm

Duncan,Didn't read that into the post, thought the concern was  doing damage by setting valve lash with a cold engine and running it.  I have never heard of using a vacuum gauge while adjusting valves, so that is new to me. The reality is that a some point he may want to re torque the head gasket  on a new engine and that would justify checking valve clearances again anyway.Steve TC211 [b]From:[/b] "Duncan morelists@yahoo.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] "mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, May 9, 2018 6:01 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] rocker arme clearence again....   Steve, I think Benny is talking about checking the valve lash using a vacuum gauge while engine running, for a performance tune up.  Look for greatest vacuum without flutter, engine hot. Or maybe he wants very quiet (tight) valve lash for car show judges, and to and from trailer? Adjustment for one pretty much precludes the other. Duncan-TC9866
On Wednesday, May 9, 2018, 3:04:25 AM PDT, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
  There is no need to adjust the valves on a running engine.  If first start up is a concern for you just initially adjust the valves slightly sloppy and when hot readjust to the proper clearance and all will be well.Steve TC2911 [b]From:[/b] "jaguarb@inter.net.il [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, May 9, 2018 4:54 AM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] rocker arm! e clearence again....   FriendsThis subject was addressed for several times, But the issue of the first engine start after a restoration was not covered. As per the manufacturer the gap of the rocker arm should be set at a hot engine, what gap should be set at the first start? (cold engine). On other engines (not MG) the gap is deferent for the intake and exhaust valve , the exhaust valve has a greater clearance as it is much hotter than the intake valve. what determines the rocker gap  beside the temperature of the valves , heads and camshaft lobs? as I understood the gap is required to prevent a condition where the valve will not close complete, the small gap between the valve mushroom and the seat will allow the hot combustion gasses to burn the valve and the valve seat. From listening to some TC's engine set at 0.019" gap I was impressed that the ticking is very loud. Does someone had experience adjusting the valve gap on a running engine?Thanks and regards.Benny   #ygrps-yiv-646302046 #ygrps-yiv-646302046yiv8410541022 #ygrps-yiv-646302046yiv8410541022 -- #ygrps-yiv-646302046yiv8410541022ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-646302046 #ygrps-yiv-646302046yiv8410541022 #ygrps-yiv-646302046yiv8410541022ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-646302046 #ygrps-yiv-646302046yiv8410541022 #ygrps-yiv-646302046yiv8410541022ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-646302046yiv8410541022hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-646302046 #ygrps-yiv-646302046yiv8410541022 #ygrps-yiv-646302046yiv8410541022ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-646302046yiv8410541022ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-646302046 #ygrps-yiv-646302046yiv8410541022 #ygrps-yiv-646302046yiv8410541022ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-646302046yiv8410541022ad { padding:0 0;} #ygrps-yiv-646302046 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M. P.
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: rocker arme clearence again....

Post by M. P. » Wed May 09, 2018 7:41 pm

Would probably help to just ask Benny rater than surmise what he meant.  You think maybe !!!  I never heard of valve adjustment either using a vacuum gauge, doesn't mean it isn't or can't be done though, so I'm not challenging the methodology.   Marv
On Wednesday , May 9 , 2018 06 : 39 : 05 PM CDT, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
  Duncan,Didn't read that into the post, thought the concern was  doing damage by setting valve lash with a cold engine and running it.  I have never heard of using a vacuum gauge while adjusting valves, so that is new to me. The reality is that a some point he may want to re torque the head gasket  on a new engine and that would justify checking valve clearances again anyway.Steve TC211 [b]From:[/b] "Duncan morelists@yahoo.com [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] "mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, May 9, 2018 6:01 PM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] rocker arme clearence again....   Steve, I think Benny is talking about checking the valve lash using a vacuum gauge while engine running, for a performance tune up.  Look for greatest vacuum without flutter, engine hot. Or maybe he wants very quiet (tight) valve lash for car show judges, and to and from trailer? Adjustment for one pretty much precludes the other. Duncan-TC9866 On Wednesday, May 9, 2018, 3:04:25 AM PDT, Stephen D Stierman morgan7709@sbcglobal.net [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   There is no need to adjust the valves on a running engine.  If first start up is a concern for you just initially adjust the valves slightly sloppy and when hot readjust to the proper clearance and all will be well.Steve TC2911 [b]From:[/b] "jaguarb@inter.net.il [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Wednesday, May 9, 2018 4:54 AM [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] rocker arm! e clearence again....   FriendsThis subject was addressed for several times, But the issue of the first engine start after a restoration was not covered. As per the manufacturer the gap of the rocker arm should be set at a hot engine, what gap should be set at the first start? (cold engine). On other engines (not MG) the gap is deferent for the intake and exhaust valve , the exhaust valve has a greater clearance as it is much hotter than the intake valve. what determines the rocker gap  beside the temperature of the valves , heads and camshaft lobs? as I understood the gap is required to prevent a condition where the valve will not close complete, the small gap between the valve mushroom and the seat will allow the hot combustion gasses to burn the valve and the valve seat. From listening to some TC's engine set at 0.019" gap I was impressed that the ticking is very loud. Does someone had experience adjusting the valve gap on a running engine?Thanks and regards.Benny   #ygrps-yiv-194181664 #ygrps-yiv-194181664yiv9787666295 #ygrps-yiv-194181664yiv9787666295 -- #ygrps-yiv-194181664yiv9787666295ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-194181664 #ygrps-yiv-194181664yiv9787666295 #ygrps-yiv-194181664yiv9787666295ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-194181664 #ygrps-yiv-194181664yiv9787666295 #ygrps-yiv-194181664yiv9787666295ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-194181664yiv9787666295hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-194181664 #ygrps-yiv-194181664yiv9787666295 #ygrps-yiv-194181664yiv9787666295ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-194181664yiv9787666295ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-194181664 #ygrps-yiv-194181664yiv9787666295 #ygrps-yiv-194181664yiv9787666295ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-194181664yiv9787666295ad { padding:0 0;} #ygrps-yiv-194181664 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Benny Grumer
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:06 am

Re: rocker arme clearence again....

Post by Benny Grumer » Wed May 09, 2018 11:09 pm

Friends,

I was not planning to use a vacuum gauge for setting the rocker clearance, I was looking for info of starting a "new" engine.

To my opinion the a manufacturer should give the rocker arm clearance on a cold engine. How will you determine a hot engine as you even don’t have a temperature gauge? How long after the engine cutoff should the gap be set? Why the intake and the exhaust have the same gap?

Thanks to all who replied to my mail,

Regards

Benny

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of detection engine 17342 (20180507) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
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Steve S
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:56 pm

Re: rocker arme clearence again....

Post by Steve S » Wed May 09, 2018 11:22 pm

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#ygrps-yiv-1255018277 #ygrps-yiv-1255018277aqm-original #ygrps-yiv-1255018277ygrp-text tt { font-size:120%;}#ygrps-yiv-1255018277 #ygrps-yiv-1255018277 #ygrps-yiv-1255018277aqm-original #ygrps-yiv-1255018277ygrp-vital ul li:last-child { border-right:none !important;}#ygrps-yiv-1255018277 The difference between hot and cold is only a thousandth or two.  You can't do any harm being off by such a small amount.  No way you can set the valves fast enough for the valves train to not partially cool anyway.  If it worries you, set it a couple thousandths loose. It will make a little more noise but won't hurt anything. - Steve Simmons, TC8975
On May 9, 2018 11:09:52 PM "Benny Grumer jaguarb@inter.net.il [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Friends,

I was not planning to use a vacuum gauge for setting the rocker clearance, I was looking for info of starting a "new" engine.

To my opinion the a manufacturer should give the rocker arm clearance on a cold engine. How will you determine a hot engine as you even don t have a temperature gauge? How long after the engine cutoff should the gap be set? Why the intake and the exhaust have the same gap?

Thanks to all who replied to my mail,

Regards

Benny

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of detection engine 17342 (20180507) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
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Bob Grunau
Posts: 149
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:26 am

Re: rocker arme clearence again....

Post by Bob Grunau » Thu May 10, 2018 4:10 am

Benny, I agree with Steve.

You don t say what camshaft, if original TC with 0.019 : hot setting, set the valves cold at 0.020 .

If later 0.012 TF Camshaft, use 0.013 cold .

If you really want a hot setting, warm up engine, remove valve cover and use the correct hot feeler between valve stem and rocker with engine running. OK, put a cloth over the rocker vent holes to contain some oil J

 

Bob, Canada

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Steve S mail@mgnuts.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, May 10, 2018 2:22 AM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com; Benny Grumer jaguarb@inter.net.il [mg-tabc] [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] rocker arme clearence again....

 

 

The difference between hot and cold is only a thousandth or two.  You can't do any harm being off by such a small amount.  No way you can set the valves fast enough for the valves train to not partially cool anyway.  If it worries you, set it a couple thousandths loose. It will make a little more noise but won't hurt anything.

 

- Steve Simmons, TC8975

 

 

On May 9, 2018 11:09:52 PM "Benny Grumer jaguarb@inter.net.il [mg-tabc]" mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Friends,

I was not planning to use a vacuum gauge for setting the rocker clearance, I was looking for info of starting a "new" engine.

To my opinion the a manufacturer should give the rocker arm clearance on a cold engine. How will you determine a hot engine as you even don t have a temperature gauge? How long after the engine cutoff should the gap be set? Why the intake and the exhaust have the same gap?

Thanks to all who replied to my mail,

Regards

Benny

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of detection engine 17342 (20180507) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

 

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Benny Grumer
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:06 am

Re: rocker arme clearence again....

Post by Benny Grumer » Sat May 12, 2018 4:06 am

Hi Bill

Thank you for the detailed mail. I agree with you regarding the lash required, To my opinion the only wear that may cause

reduction in the valve train lash  is the valve mushroom digging into the valve seat, but this will occur after a long time or hard driving at high RPM. Other wear will increase the lash (camshaft lobes, rockers, tappets, rocker arms). I am not going to "race" the TC. I will drive the TC to cube meeting with an average of 1000 miles a year.

Regards

Benny   

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of detection engine 17342 (20180507) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
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