What Raw Tubs look like

[motionwear]

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Today I delivered just cut ash logs to the mill for slicing and drying.  Over the next couple years I'll then turn this wood into tubs for my MMM cars - L1, J2s, PAs, PBs.  Probably even cut a couple more TC tub frame pieces. I'm NOT planning on replacing Craig Seabrook - I don't know if anyone ever could! It was the first good TC weather day here in central Indiana, so I took advantage.  75 mile round trip to the mill; just went out to the garage, filled up the tires, started the TC, and took off.  It should be that way every year when we get our cars out - the TC ran so smooth . . .. Tom Wilson Kimber Creek Ltd. Zionsville IN Custom interiors for MMM and T series.

[Clive Sherriff]

Tom, An exciting project. How similar is American Ash to European Ash? American Oaks tested, have quite different qualities to European Oak, and indeed different American Oaks themselves have very different properties. Red Oak is known to be a more porous wood . For example it's now thought that the Marie Celeste was abandoned due to fear of an explosion due to leakage of industrial alcohol in the cargo of 1,701 barrels . Nine barrels were empty and made of Red Oak, the remainder were full and made of non porous American White Oak. The various oaks also differ in density, strength, flexibility etc. Has anyone done comparative tests on American Ashes and European Ash? Clive,Oxford, UK. m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1524251267&sig=VJybZSoHd6jj1lMggEl.uw--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 9:13 PM, twilson@indy.rr.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] Today I delivered just cut ash logs to the mill for slicing and drying. Over the next couple years I'll then turn this wood into tubs for my MMM cars - L1, J2s, PAs, PBs. Probably even cut a couple more TC tub frame pieces. I'm NOT planning on replacing Craig Seabrook - I don't know if anyone ever could! It was the first good TC weather day here in central Indiana, so I took advantage. 75 mile round trip to the mill; just went out to the garage, filled up the tires, started the TC, and took off. It should be that way every year when we get our cars out - the TC ran so smooth . . .. Tom Wilson Kimber Creek Ltd. Zionsville IN Custom interiors for MMM and T series.

[motionwear]

American Ash (Fraxinus americana) and European (aka English) ash (Fraxinus excelsior) are very close in characteristics. Average dried weight 62 lbs. cubic foot, Jancka hardness similar (1320 vs 1480).  Modulus of rupture the same, elasitc codulus reallyu close, as is crushing strength.  American ash has less shrinkage than European ash, meaning it has a bit less movement as it absorbs and sheds water. Essentially interchangeable for applications. http://www.wood-database.com/white-ash/  http://www.wood-database.com/european-ash/  Tom

[motionwear]

Clive - also of interest - 

Of the TC tubs I've disassembled over the years, virtually every one of them had multiple hardwoods.  Most common:

Mahogany, especially for the main rails.

Ash - likely European Ash

Maple - both hard and soft maple.

Poplar of some sort.

I think Spec 259 called for hardwood, not a particular species.

Tom

[Duncan]

Another very close in characteristics is American Beech.  Very similar to American (White) Ash. Informative charts and article on wood varieties characteristics: https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/ch04.pdf Duncan-USA

On Thursday, April 12, 2018, 3:43:41 AM PDT, CLIVE SHERRIFF csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Tom,  An exciting project. How similar is American Ash to European Ash?   American Oaks tested, have quite different qualities to European Oak, and indeed different American Oaks themselves have very different properties.  Red Oak is known to be a more porous wood .  For example it's now thought that the Marie Celeste was abandoned due to fear of an explosion due to leakage of industrial alcohol in the cargo of 1,701 barrels .  Nine barrels were empty and made of Red Oak, the remainder were full and made of non porous American White Oak. The various oaks also differ in density, strength, flexibility etc. Has anyone done comparative tests on American Ashes and European Ash? Clive,Oxford, UK. m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1524251267&sig=VJybZSoHd6jj1lMggEl.uw--~D[/img]Virus-free. www.avast.com On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 9:13 PM, twilson@indy.rr.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u]   Today I delivered just cut ash logs to the mill for slicing and drying.  Over the next couple years I'll then turn this wood into tubs for my MMM cars - L1, J2s, PAs, PBs.  Probably even cut a couple more TC tub frame pieces. I'm NOT planning on replacing Craig Seabrook - I don't know if anyone ever could! It was the first good TC weather day here in central Indiana, so I took advantage.  75 mile round trip to the mill; just went out to the garage, filled up the tires, started the TC, and took off.  It should be that way every year when we get our cars out - the TC ran so smooth . . .. Tom Wilson Kimber Creek Ltd. Zionsville IN Custom interiors for MMM and T series.

[Richard A Warren]

I would not advise using beech for frame members. It warps and cups a good deal as it dries and often afterwards. Ash is the way to go for carriage work, especially when the tolerances are so small when building a car frame. But best stock up on it; the emerald borer just moved into Vt. White oak is vastly preferable to red oak, but slower growing and thus harder to find, especially since it is so desirable for ship building. Dick Warren

On Apr 12, 2018, at 3:59 PM, Duncan morelists@yahoo.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Another very close in characteristics is American Beech.  Very similar to American (White) Ash. Informative charts and article on wood varieties characteristics: https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/ch04.pdf Duncan-USA On Thursday, April 12, 2018, 3:43:41 AM PDT, CLIVE SHERRIFF csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Tom,  An exciting project. How similar is American Ash to European Ash?   American Oaks tested, have quite different qualities to European Oak,and indeed different American Oaks themselves have very different properties.  Red Oak is known to be a more porous wood .  For example it's now thoughtthat the Marie Celeste was abandoned due to fear of an explosion due toleakage of industrial alcohol in the cargo of 1,701 barrels .  Nine barrels wereempty and made of Red Oak, the remainder were full and made of non porousAmerican White Oak. The various oaks also differ in density, strength, flexibility etc. Has anyone donecomparative tests on American Ashes a! nd European Ash? Clive,Oxford, UK. m mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1524251267&sig=VJybZSoHd6jj1lMggEl.uw--~D[/img]Virus-free. www.avast.com On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 9:13 PM, twilson@indy.rr.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Today I delivered just cut ash logs to the mill for slicing and drying.  Over the next couple years I'll then turn this wood into tubs for my MMM cars - L1, J2s, PAs, PBs.  Probably even cut a couple more TC tub frame pieces.

I'm NOT planning on replacing Craig Seabrook - I don't know if anyone ever could! It was the first good TC weather day here in central Indiana, so I took advantage.  75 mile round trip to the mill; just went out to the garage, filled up the tires, started the TC, and took off.  It should be that way every year when we get our cars out - the TC ran so smooth . . ..

Tom Wilson Kimber Creek Ltd. Zionsville IN Custom interiors for MMM and T series.