Production date of TC 7474

[djedgar]

I am in contact with the owner of TC 7474 and he shared the attached letter which he received when he visited the MG factory in 1980.  It states his TC 7474 came off the production line on January 10, 1949. However the data from the T Register site which has the records as entered by Roger Furneaux and from the original factory records, TC 7474 came off the line December 23, 1948. Per page 53 of TCs Forever, Mike states he has seen three different sets of production records he has seen and they vary by as much as 100 per year.  He shows TC 7502 coming off the line on December 24 so if there was a variance of up to 100 per year, then I guess TC 7474 could have been in 1949. Anyone have opinions on the difference?  Could one (Jan 10) be a shipping date perhaps?  Or maybe whoever looked up the date for the letter misread or something? Just curious. David Edgar, TC 5108

[clovermachine@sbcglobal.net]

Dave, In 1967 I wrote the the MG factory asking the production date of my TC 5221. The reply was April 8, 1948 and 'shipped two weeks later to the USA'. Maybe some TC's were held back from the 'production day' for re-work. Bill Traill TC 5221

[Charles Hill]

Were not US-bound cars shipped in batches? I vaguely remember reading that TC EXUs were shipped in batches of 25. Charles Hill

On 12/12/2017 6:35 PM, bill@clovermachine.com [mg-tabc] wrote: > Dave, > > In 1967 I wrote the the MG factory asking the production date of my > TC 5221. The reply was April 8, 1948 and 'shipped two weeks later to > the USA'. > > Maybe some TC's were held back from the 'production day' for re-work. > > Bill Traill > TC 5221 > > > > > ------------------------------------ > Posted by: bill@clovermachine.com > ------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo Groups Links > > > >

[motionwear]

Hi Dave -  Cold and snowy in the UK, cold and kind of snowy here in Indiana, so here's something to read to put you in the holiday spirit.

Tom Wilson

I think the variation in date (TC7474, Dec 23 '48 vs Jan 10 '49) may have to do with when the build date is recorded versus when the car is finished in Dispatch and ready for delivery.  I don't know if anyone has ever determined for certain exactly at what point in production the build date was recorded. I believe, but do not know for sure, that the build date is the recorded date of a chassis first starting down the production line.  Chassis were assembled, then I think they went into stores, and were then checked out and taken to the front of the chassis production line to start the build.  It's logical that the numbers were stamped there at the first chassis station, since the build dates have such a consistent sequence of dates overall.  I'll have to ask Jimmy Cox about that. The original build date production record books (now held at MG Car Club in Abingdon) are in very neat handwriting.  I believe, but don't know for sure, that these were kept in an administrative office and posted to regularly.  The type of handwriting, ink, cleanliness of the books and other details strongly suggest an office setting, and these clues indicate only a couple people posted to them over the years.

If the "build date" is the date the chassis first started on the production line (Fred "Soapy" Saunders and Arthur Razel were on this first station), then a production log of some sort would've been kept there, or perhaps at stores (aka inventory) when chassis were taken to the production floor.

If the "build date" is when the car was completed and ready for despatch, Jack Sparrow's department (despatch) would probably have recorded the chassis number and date as part of their paperwork process.

I have a factory photo many of you have seen in MG books (which ones escapes me at the moment) of a list of items needing attention in the Rectification Department for TC0532.  The build date of TC0532 is March 12, 1946 - Tuesday.  The date on this form stuck under the wiper on the windscreen is March 15, 1946 - Friday.  MG built 30 cars that week.  So rectification happened AFTER the build date, and a car wasn't considered finished until it passed Finishing and Rectification.

TCs built during the December '48 - January '49 period: First, remember that Y types were also being built at this time.  I think at this time the TC had it's own production line; the Y type was on a parallel line.  The YT may have been going down the TC line at this time; I don't know.

The number of cars listed for each build date is perhaps another clue.  It might be more logical that this is the number of TCs starting into production than finishing, which would support the build date being the beginning of the process. The build records show: Mon Dec 20 20 TCs

Tue Dec 21  0 Wed Dec 22 17 Thu Dec 23 18 Fri Dec 24 14

Dec 24 to Jan 04 0 cars

Wed Jan 05 40 TCs

Tue Jan 06 10 Fri Jan 07 15 Mon Jan 10  0 Tue Jan 11  0

Wed Jan 12 20

Thu Jan 13 35

Fri Jan 14 10

Mon Jan 17  0

Tue Jan 18  0

Wed Jan 19 31

[Murray G Arundell]

It should also be noted that in the middle of the date range being discussed would have been Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Years Day.  Am of course working in the assumption these were Public Holidays back then.  This would also account for the gap in dates between completion and despatch. Murray Arundell e arundell@ghs.com.au

On 13 Dec 2017, at 11:23 am, twilson@indy.rr.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Hi Dave -  Cold and snowy in the UK, cold and kind of snowy here in Indiana, so here's something to read to put you in the holiday spirit.

Tom Wilson I think the variation in date (TC7474, Dec 23 '48 vs Jan 10 '49) may have to do with when the build date is recorded versus when the car is finished in Dispatch and ready for delivery.  I don't know if anyone has ever determined for certain exactly at what point in production the build date was recorded. I believe, but do not know for sure, that the build date is the recorded date of a chassis first starting down the production line.  Chassis were assembled, then I think they went into stores, and were then checked out and taken to the front of the chassis production line to start the build.  It's logical that the numbers were stamped there at the first chassis station, since the build dates have such a consistent sequence of dates overall.  I'll have to ask Jimmy Cox about that. The original build date production record books (now held at MG Car Club in Abingdon) are in very neat handwriting.  I believe, but don't know for sure, that these were kept in an administrative office and posted to regularly.  The type of handwriting, ink, cleanliness of the books and other details strongly suggest an office setting, and these clues indicate only a couple people posted to them over the years. If the "build date" is the date the chassis first started on the production line (Fred "Soapy" Saunders and Arthur Razel were on this first station), then a production log of some sort would've been kept there, or perhaps at stores (aka inventory) when chassis were taken to the production floor. If the "build date" is when the car was completed and ready f or despatch, Jack Sparrow's department (despatch) would probably have recorded the chassis number and date as part of their paperwork process. I have a factory photo many of you have seen in MG books (which ones escapes me at the moment) of a list of items needing attention in the Rectification Department for TC0532.  The build date of TC0532 is March 12, 1946 - Tuesday.  The date on this form stuck under the wiper on the windscreen is March 15, 1946 - Friday.  MG built 30 cars that week.  So rectification happened AFTER the build date, and a car wasn't considered finished until it passed Finishing and Rectification. TCs built during the December '48 - January '49 period: First, remember that Y types were also being built at this time.  I think at this time the TC had it's own production li ne; the Y type was on a parallel line.  The YT may have been going down the TC line at this time; I don't know.The number of cars listed for each build date is perhaps another clue.  It might be more logical that this is the number of TCs starting into production than finishing, which would support the build date being the beginning of the process. The build records show: Mon Dec 20 20 TCsTue Dec 21  0 Wed Dec 22 17 Thu Dec 23 18 Fri Dec 24 14 Dec 24 to Jan 04 0 cars Wed Jan 05 40 TCsTue Jan 06 10 Fri Jan 07 15 Mon Jan 10  0 Tue Jan 11  0Wed Jan 12 20Thu Jan 13 35Fri Jan 14 10Mon Jan 17  0Tue Jan 18  0Wed Jan 19 31

[D&J Edgar]

Attachments : Re: [mg-tabc] Production date of TC 7474 Thanks to all who have responded so far (Tom, Bill, Murray, Charles).  Most interesting. Per the build records Tom sent, there are 18 TCs listed for Dec 23 and zero for Jan 10.  So perhaps TC 7474 was started on Dec 23 (one of the 18) and was actually dispatched on Jan 10.  Only guessing here.  Per the letter I mentioned (and somehow did not go through with my first message), it specifies that TC 7474 “came off the production line on 10th of Jan.”  So figuring in the holidays, it could have been on the line for 2 weeks?  I attach the letter here again and hope it goes through this time.  I also put it in the archived photos as well. David Edgar, TC 5108 El Cajon, California (where it has been around 80 degrees during the day and unlike the UK and Indiana) ===========================================

[quote] Re: Production date of TC 7474     Posted by:  twilson@indy.rr.com motionwear     Date: Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:23 pm ((PST)) Hi Dave - Cold and snowy in the UK, cold and kind of snowy here in Indiana, so here's something to read to put you in the holiday spirit. Tom Wilson I think the variation in date (TC7474, Dec 23 '48 vs Jan 10 '49) may have to do with when the build date is recorded versus when the car is finished in Dispatch and ready for delivery.  I don't know if anyone has ever determined for certain exactly at what point in production the build date was recorded. I believe, but do not know for sure, that the build date is the recorded date of a chassis first starting down the production line.  Chassis were assembled, then I think they went into stores, and were then checked out and taken to the front of the chassis production line to start the build.  It's logical that the numbers were stamped there at the first chassis station, since the build dates have such a consistent sequence of dates overall.  I'll have to ask Jimmy Cox about that. The original build date production record books (now held at MG Car Club in Abingdon) are in very neat handwriting.  I believe, but don't know for sure, that these were kept in an administrative office and posted to regularly.  The type of handwriting, ink, cleanliness of the books and other details strongly suggest an office setting, and these clues indicate only a couple people posted to them over the years. If the "build date" is the date the chassis first started on the production line (Fred "Soapy" Saunders and Arthur Razel were on this first station), then a production log of some sort would've been kept there, or perhaps at stores (aka inventory) when chassis were taken to the production floor. If the "build date" is when the car was completed and ready for despatch, Jack Sparrow's department (despatch) would probably have recorded the chassis number and date as part of their paperwork process. I have a factory photo many of you have seen in MG books (which ones escapes me at the moment) of a list of items needing attention in the Rectification Department for TC0532.  The build date of TC0532 is March 12, 1946 - Tuesday.  The date on this form stuck under the wiper on the windscreen is March 15, 1946 - Friday.  MG built 30 cars that week.  So rectification happened AFTER the build date, and a car wasn't considered finished until it passed Finishing and Rectification. TCs built during the December '48 - January '49 period: First, remember that Y types were also being built at this time.  I think at this time the TC had it's own production line; the Y type was on a parallel line.  The YT may have been going down the TC line at this time; I don't know. The number of cars listed for each build date is perhaps another clue.  It might be more logical that this is the number of TCs starting into production than finishing, which would support the build date being the beginning of the process. The build records show: Mon Dec 20 20 TCs Tue Dec 21  0 Wed Dec 22 17 Thu Dec 23 18 Fri Dec 24 14 Dec 24 to Jan 04 0 cars Wed Jan 05 40 TCs Tue Jan 06 10 Fri Jan 07 15 Mon Jan 10  0 Tue Jan 11  0 Wed Jan 12 20 Thu Jan 13 35 Fri Jan 14 10 Mon Jan 17  0 Tue Jan 18  0 Wed Jan 19 31

[/quote]

[Trevor Burnett]

Dear All,

 

Not the missing link, but my TC7196 was reportedly built/completed on the 28th November 1948.

 

Rgds Trevor Burnett (South Africa)

 

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]twilson@indy.rr.com [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 2017/12/13 03:23 AM [b]To:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [mg-tabc] Re: Production date of TC 7474

 

 

Hi Dave -  Cold and snowy in the UK, cold and kind of snowy here in Indiana, so here's something to read to put you in the holiday spirit.Tom Wilson

I think the variation in date (TC7474, Dec 23 '48 vs Jan 10 '49) may have to do with when the build date is recorded versus when the car is finished in Dispatch and ready for delivery.  I don't know if anyone has ever determined for certain exactly at what point in production the build date was recorded. I believe, but do not know for sure, that the build date is the recorded date of a chassis first starting down the production line.  Chassis were assembled, then I think they went into stores, and were then checked out and taken to the front of the chassis production line to start the build.  It's logical that the numbers were stamped there at the first chassis station, since the build dates have such a consistent sequence of dates overall.  I'll have to ask Jimmy Cox about that. The original build date production record books (now held at MG Car Club in Abingdon) are in very neat handwriting.  I believe, but don't know for sure, that these were kept in an administrative office and posted to regularly.  The type of handwriting, ink, cleanliness of the books and other details strongly suggest an office setting, and these clues indicate only a couple people posted to them over the years.

 

If the "build date" is the date the chassis first started on the production line (Fred "Soapy" Saunders and Arthur Razel were on this first station), then a production log of some sort would've been kept there, or perhaps at stores (aka inventory) when chassis were taken to the production floor.

 

If the "build date" is when the car was completed and ready for despatch, Jack Sparrow's department (despatch) would probably have recorded the chassis number and date as part of their paperwork process.

 

I have a factory photo many of you have seen in MG books (which ones escapes me at the moment) of a list of items needing attention in the Rectification Department for TC0532.  The build date of TC0532 is March 12, 1946 - Tuesday.  The date on this form stuck under the wiper on the windscreen is March 15, 1946 - Friday.  MG built 30 cars that week.  So rectification happened AFTER the build date, and a car wasn't considered finished until it passed Finishing and Rectification.

 

[b]TCs built during the December '48 - January '49 period: [/b]First, remember that Y types were also being built at this time.  I think at this time the TC had it's own production line; the Y type was on a parallel line.  The YT may have been going down the TC line at this time; I don't know.

The number of cars listed for each build date is perhaps another clue.  It might be more logical that this is the number of TCs starting into production than finishing, which would support the build date being the beginning of the process. The build records show: Mon Dec 20 20 TCs

Tue Dec 21  0 Wed Dec 22 17 Thu Dec 23 18 Fri Dec 24 14

 

Dec 24 to Jan 04 0 cars

Wed Jan 05 40 TCs

Tue Jan 06 10 Fri Jan 07 15 Mon Jan 10  0 Tue Jan 11  0

Wed Jan 12 20

Thu Jan 13 35

Fri Jan 14 10

Mon Jan 17  0

Tue Jan 18  0

Wed Jan 19 31

 

[Norman Verona]

New Years day was not a holiday then.

 

 

[b][i]Norman Verona[/i][/b]

11 Cherry Close, Royston, South Yorkshire S71 4LZ

Phone: 0044 (0)1226 728811

Mob: 0044 (0)741 9905 741

[b][i]Web: www.frenchblat.com[/i][/b]

 

[b]From:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [mailto:mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com] [b]On Behalf Of [/b]Murray G Arundell arundell@ghs.com.au [mg-tabc] [b]Sent:[/b] 13 December 2017 01:28 [b]To:[/b] twilson@indy.rr.com [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Re: Production date of TC 7474

 

 

It should also be noted that in the middle of the date range being discussed would have been Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Years Day.  Am of course working in the assumption these were Public Holidays back then.  This would also account for the gap in dates between completion and despatch.  

[b]Murray Arundell[/b] e arundell@ghs.com.au

On 13 Dec 2017, at 11:23 am, twilson@indy.rr.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi Dave -  Cold and snowy in the UK, cold and kind of snowy here in Indiana, so here's something to read to put you in the holiday spirit.

Tom Wilson

I think the variation in date (TC7474, Dec 23 '48 vs Jan 10 '49) may have to do with when the build date is recorded versus when the car is finished in Dispatch and ready for delivery.  I don't know if anyone has ever determined for certain exactly at what point in production the build date was recorded. I believe, but do not know for sure, that the build date is the recorded date of a chassis first starting down the production line.  Chassis were assembled, then I think they went into stores, and were then checked out and taken to the front of the chassis production line to start the build.  It's logical that the numbers were stamped there at the first chassis station, since the build dates have such a consistent sequence of dates overall.  I'll have to ask Jimmy Cox about that. The original build date production record books (now held at MG Car Club in Abingdon) are in very neat handwriting.  I believe, but don't know for sure, that these were kept in an administrative office and posted to regularly.  The type of handwriting, ink, cleanliness of the books and other details strongly suggest an office setting, and these clues indicate only a couple people posted to them over the years.

 

If the "build date" is the date the chassis first started on the production line (Fred "Soapy" Saunders and Arthur Razel were on this first station), then a production log of some sort would've been kept there, or perhaps at stores (aka inventory) when chassis were taken to the production floor.

 

If the "build date" is when the car was completed and ready f or despatch, Jack Sparrow's department (despatch) would probably have recorded the chassis number and date as part of their paperwork process.

 

I have a factory photo many of you have seen in MG books (which ones escapes me at the moment) of a list of items needing attention in the Rectification Department for TC0532.  The build date of TC0532 is March 12, 1946 - Tuesday.  The date on this form stuck under the wiper on the windscreen is March 15, 1946 - Friday.  MG built 30 cars that week.  So rectification happened AFTER the build date, and a car wasn't considered finished until it passed Finishing and Rectification.

 

[b]TCs built during the December '48 - January '49 period: [/b]First, remember that Y types were also being built at this time.  I think at this time the TC had it's own production li ne; the Y type was on a parallel line.  The YT may have been going down the TC line at this time; I don't know.

The number of cars listed for each build date is perhaps another clue.  It might be more logical that this is the number of TCs starting into production than finishing, which would support the build date being the beginning of the process. The build records show: Mon Dec 20 20 TCs

Tue Dec 21  0 Wed Dec 22 17 Thu Dec 23 18 Fri Dec 24 14

 

Dec 24 to Jan 04 0 cars

Wed Jan 05 40 TCs

Tue Jan 06 10 Fri Jan 07 15 Mon Jan 10  0 Tue Jan 11  0

Wed Jan 12 20

Thu Jan 13 35

Fri Jan 14 10

Mon Jan 17  0

Tue Jan 18  0

Wed Jan 19 31

 

 

 

[Clive Sherriff]

The reason for the delay almost always found between production date and shipping date for EXUs is that the EXU cars were shipped by sea from Southampton, to the USA / Australia / or wherever, following a rail journey from Abingdon. EXU cars for a particular destination were stored at the factory, until a scheduled sailing was due. Rail freight transport was then booked, and the cars were all driven to the railhead at Abingdon. The fuel tanks were drained there, and the batteries disconnected, and they were loaded onto freight carriages for the journey to the docks at Southampton. This information I obtained first hand when I met one of the chaps, part of whose job was to drive the EXU TCs to the railhead at the very fine MG Exhibition held in Abingdon Town Hall some years ago. [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1522511907&sig=NvAQhjuKKRp2i7gj3BOr6g--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 12:35 AM, bill@clovermachine.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] Dave, In 1967 I wrote the the MG factory asking the production date of my TC 5221. The reply was April 8, 1948 and 'shipped two weeks later to the USA'. Maybe some TC's were held back from the 'production day' for re-work. Bill Traill TC 5221

[mgtc7794 .]

Curious to learn if EXU's came with their bumpers when they left the factory. Bob BrennanS. Freeport, METC7794EXU

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 7:15 AM, CLIVE SHERRIFF csherriff99@gmail.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] The reason for the delay almost always found between production date and shipping date for EXUs is that the EXU cars were shipped by sea from Southampton, to the USA / Australia / or wherever, following a rail journey from Abingdon. EXU cars for a particular destination were stored at the factory, until a scheduled sailing was due. Rail freight transport was then booked, and the cars were all driven to the railhead at Abingdon. The fuel tanks were drained there, and the batteries disconnected, and they were loaded onto freight carriages for the journey to the docks at Southampton. This information I obtained first hand when I met one of the chaps, part of whose job was to drive the EXU TCs to the railhead at the very fine MG Exhibition held in Abingdon Town Hall some years ago. [img]https://ec.yimg.com/ec?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipmcdn.avast.com%2Fimages%2Ficons%2Ficon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif&t=1522511907&sig=NvAQhjuKKRp2i7gj3BOr6g--~D[/img] Virus-free. www.avast.com On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 12:35 AM, bill@clovermachine.com [mg-tabc] mg-tabc-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: [u][/u] Dave, In 1967 I wrote the the MG factory asking the production date of my TC 5221. The reply was April 8, 1948 and 'shipped two weeks later to the USA'. Maybe some TC's were held back from the 'production day' for re-work. Bill Traill TC 5221