early TC

[tom metcalf]

Roger Melton owns TC0257 and is under restoration at our Safety Fast! Restoration shop - black with green interior. Any opinions on early TC engine colors??? tommm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[David Lodge]

Tomm, A thorny one, this, and one which has had me burning ye midnyte oile on occasion. Evidence for maroon engine: MG factory publicity photographs showing a grey bulkhead/dark engine. Evidence for grey engine; "people who know" including Mike Sherrell (TCs Forever), and an early XPAG engine block which I excavated from a farmers field near my parent's house in the UK, most of the colour gone except the oil gallery bolts which were grey OVER A KIND OF AUSTIN-HEALEY GREEN! My own preference is the maroon job as my own recollection is that I have NEVER seen a grey engine in a TC (and I have owned ours since 1963) except for the superbly restored example of fellow-lister Andrew Bradley in Washington State, which, if memory serves has a grey engine - and black body paint. Yours in total confusion, David Lodge.

> Roger Melton owns TC0257 and is under restoration at our Safety Fast! > Restoration shop - black with green interior. Any opinions on early TC engine > colors??? tommm > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

[tom metcalf]

Ed, first, we're in Ohio - shop is in Mansfield. We are currently doing 4 TCs, 4 TA Tickfords, 3 J2s, a P-type, and my own F2. Next, I know how it is to build a house & have to put everything on hold. Frustrating! Been there done that but your 6 car garage (hope that's enough) will be worth it in the end. Our garage is 28' deep by 66' long, plus a drive in basement for winter storage - love it! But somehow never enough. Finally, all TCs we have done have a 1" steel conduit sheathing on the engine side of the toeboard for the main harness - about 18" long, plus smaller conduit pieces on the firewall and h'lamp wires. I get the originals replated and have them installed on the new looms. This is the only "wrapping" I'm familiar with so any digital photos of early TC differences would sure be appreciated. Thanks for the help! tommm

> Tom, > I would be happy to take a few digital photos and attempt to email them to > you. Part of the wiring loom should have a steel wrapping, similar to a > speedo cable cover. I'm not recalling a date stamp on the gearbox, but

the

> generator, gauges, and starter are all stamped 3/39 to 5/39. My basket

case

> of a TC came with very incorrect headlamps, something off an old Rolls or > similar. I bought a correct pair from a guy on the list though. I got a > correct top frame from Michael Card, has the right sort of cantilever

arms.

> I think all I really still need is a pair of D lamp's, I'll probably mount > two in favor of safety over originality. Still have to paint fenders and > gas tank. It's all pretty much on hold while we build a new house, and

we're

> living in a rental with a two car garage and tons of boxes of household > things stacked around... I'm looking forward to a nice new six car garage > soon... Let me know if you want a couple of reference pictures. Where is > your shop located? > > Ed Dunn >

[tom metcalf]

Hi David, Thanks for your early engine color input. Right - tis thorny! The early photos to which you're referring are probably the very car (TC0257 - photographic) we're doing - and it's a dark block (and silver rad header tank). The g'box is dated 5 May 1939 so I'm wondering if the engine was originally painted dark red TB color - truely a pre-war "leftover"? However, early TC guru Peter Debruyn(TC0252), who has helped tremendously, feels the early ones were dark green. This engine has the other TB ancilliaries - TB carbs, intake manifold, chrome valve cover, etc, but somewhere along the line the short block was replaced with a BMC rebuilt that is actually a STINKING TD BLOCK!!! No offense to TD owners - it just doesn't belong in this TC!!! And no chance of ever finding that elusive clue. Now, how early is the "early" XPAG block you excavated? And what is Austin Healey green????? Is that the BMC green that the BMC rebuilt engines were painted in the 50's - 60's? My thinking (draw own conclutions there) is early TCs were dark red (TB) or dark green (first 20 TCs?), then perhaps the same (or close) gray-green as the firewall - which BTW got progressively darker and greener, then the familiar deep red. The first color would simply be finishing the TB stock that had already been painted and assembled prior to WWII. The latter two colors are fairly well documented but the very early is still a bit muddy... Thanks David - any other opinions anybody? And FYI, yes, this is a car that will rack up many miles and will hopefully be a joy to drive. We just want to get details correct at this point since it's a somewhat significant TC. tommm

> Tomm, > A thorny one, this, and one which has had me burning ye midnyte oile on > occasion. > Evidence for maroon engine: MG factory publicity photographs showing a

grey

> bulkhead/dark engine. > Evidence for grey engine; "people who know" including Mike Sherrell (TCs > Forever), and an early XPAG engine block which I excavated from a farmers > field near my parent's house in the UK, most of the colour gone except the > oil gallery bolts which were grey OVER A KIND OF AUSTIN-HEALEY GREEN! > My own preference is the maroon job as my own recollection is that I have > NEVER seen a grey engine in a TC (and I have owned ours since 1963) except > for the superbly restored example of fellow-lister Andrew Bradley in > Washington State, which, if memory serves has a grey engine - and black

body

> paint. > Yours in total confusion, David Lodge. > > > > > > Roger Melton owns TC0257 and is under restoration at our Safety Fast! > > Restoration shop - black with green interior. Any opinions on early TC

engine

> > colors??? tommm > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

[David Lodge]

---------- From: David Lodge wargs@mac.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 08:40:10 -0700 To: tom metcalf mgtom@bright.net> Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] early TC Hello Tom, So you actually have the car in the photos? Most impressive! You're dead right, of course. I saw the dark engine colour and automatically assumed that it's red. As for the excavated block, I'll have to take a trip up to my other shop to check but 2346 seems to ring a bell; 1704 has engine number 2406, so the other one is quite early. Austin -Healey green is a sort of cloudy light green, not the dark metallic as found on Morris Minors etc. How on earth do you date a TC gearbox? I've noticed the numbers/letters stamped on the top edge of the case but assumed (there I go again!: Copyright Ronald Reagan) that they were merely sequential. Regards, David

> Hi David, > > Thanks for your early engine color input. Right - tis thorny! > > The early photos to which you're referring are probably the very car > (TC0257 - photographic) we're doing - and it's a dark block (and silver rad > header tank). The g'box is dated 5 May 1939 so I'm wondering if the engine > was originally painted dark red TB color - truely a pre-war "leftover"? > However, early TC guru Peter Debruyn(TC0252), who has helped tremendously, > feels the early ones were dark green. This engine has the other TB > ancilliaries - TB carbs, intake manifold, chrome valve cover, etc, but > somewhere along the line the short block was replaced with a BMC rebuilt > that is actually a STINKING TD BLOCK!!! No offense to TD owners - it just > doesn't belong in this TC!!! And no chance of ever finding that elusive > clue. > > Now, how early is the "early" XPAG block you excavated? And what is Austin > Healey green????? Is that the BMC green that the BMC rebuilt engines were > painted in the 50's - 60's? > > > My thinking (draw own conclutions there) is early TCs were dark red (TB) or > dark green (first 20 TCs?), then perhaps the same (or close) gray-green as > the firewall - which BTW got progressively darker and greener, then the > familiar deep red. The first color would simply be finishing the TB stock > that had already been painted and assembled prior to WWII. The latter two > colors are fairly well documented but the very early is still a bit muddy... > > > Thanks David - any other opinions anybody? And FYI, yes, this is a car that > will rack up many miles and will hopefully be a joy to drive. We just want > to get details correct at this point since it's a somewhat significant TC. > > tommm > > > >> Tomm, >> A thorny one, this, and one which has had me burning ye midnyte oile on >> occasion. >> Evidence for maroon engine: MG factory publicity photographs showing a > grey >> bulkhead/dark engine. >> Evidence for grey engine; "people who know" including Mike Sherrell (TCs >> Forever), and an early XPAG engine block which I excavated from a farmers >> field near my parent's house in the UK, most of the colour gone except the >> oil gallery bolts which were grey OVER A KIND OF AUSTIN-HEALEY GREEN! >> My own preference is the maroon job as my own recollection is that I have >> NEVER seen a grey engine in a TC (and I have owned ours since 1963) except >> for the superbly restored example of fellow-lister Andrew Bradley in >> Washington State, which, if memory serves has a grey engine - and black > body >> paint. >> Yours in total confusion, David Lodge. >> >> >> >> >>> Roger Melton owns TC0257 and is under restoration at our Safety Fast! >>> Restoration shop - black with green interior. Any opinions on early TC > engine >>> colors??? tommm >>> >>> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >> >> >

[John G. Bulcken IV]

David, Tom is actually talking about a TB gearbox with a 1939 date on it. The early TCs had these originally with many other left over TB parts with 39 dates...sumps also...the list goes on. They were dated as folows : 28 APR 39 etc. Almost every part on a TB has a 39 date if original...this practice seems to have stopped post war. Mike Sherrill does refer to a different date code on TC XPAGS though but for TB the blocks were also dated as above. No evidence yet to support this for early TC but the TB that became the TC prototype did have a TB block. If there is a very early TC owner out there with their original XPAG with a 39 date that would answer some questions. Cheers, John TB#0398

----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lodge" wargs@Mac.com> To: mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Cc: mg-t@autox.team.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 11:43 AM Subject: FW: [mg-tabc] early TC > > ---------- > From: David Lodge wargs@mac.com> > Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 08:40:10 -0700 > To: tom metcalf mgtom@bright.net> > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] early TC > > Hello Tom, > So you actually have the car in the photos? Most impressive! > You're dead right, of course. I saw the dark engine colour and > automatically assumed that it's red. As for the excavated block, I'll have > to take a trip up to my other shop to check but 2346 seems to ring a bell; > 1704 has engine number 2406, so the other one is quite early. Austin > -Healey green is a sort of cloudy light green, not the dark metallic as > found on Morris Minors etc. How on earth do you date a TC gearbox? I've > noticed the numbers/letters stamped on the top edge of the case but assumed > (there I go again!: Copyright Ronald Reagan) that they were merely > sequential. > Regards, David > > > > > > Hi David, > > > > Thanks for your early engine color input. Right - tis thorny! > > > > The early photos to which you're referring are probably the very car > > (TC0257 - photographic) we're doing - and it's a dark block (and silver rad > > header tank). The g'box is dated 5 May 1939 so I'm wondering if the engine > > was originally painted dark red TB color - truely a pre-war "leftover"? > > However, early TC guru Peter Debruyn(TC0252), who has helped tremendously, > > feels the early ones were dark green. This engine has the other TB > > ancilliaries - TB carbs, intake manifold, chrome valve cover, etc, but > > somewhere along the line the short block was replaced with a BMC rebuilt > > that is actually a STINKING TD BLOCK!!! No offense to TD owners - it just > > doesn't belong in this TC!!! And no chance of ever finding that elusive > > clue. > > > > Now, how early is the "early" XPAG block you excavated? And what is Austin > > Healey green????? Is that the BMC green that the BMC rebuilt engines were > > painted in the 50's - 60's? > > > > > > My thinking (draw own conclutions there) is early TCs were dark red (TB) or > > dark green (first 20 TCs?), then perhaps the same (or close) gray-green as > > the firewall - which BTW got progressively darker and greener, then the > > familiar deep red. The first color would simply be finishing the TB stock > > that had already been painted and assembled prior to WWII. The latter two > > colors are fairly well documented but the very early is still a bit muddy... > > > > > > Thanks David - any other opinions anybody? And FYI, yes, this is a car that > > will rack up many miles and will hopefully be a joy to drive. We just want > > to get details correct at this point since it's a somewhat significant TC. > > > > tommm > > > > > > > >> Tomm, > >> A thorny one, this, and one which has had me burning ye midnyte oile on > >> occasion. > >> Evidence for maroon engine: MG factory publicity photographs showing a > > grey > >> bulkhead/dark engine. > >> Evidence for grey engine; "people who know" including Mike Sherrell (TCs > >> Forever), and an early XPAG engine block which I excavated from a farmers > >> field near my parent's house in the UK, most of the colour gone except the > >> oil gallery bolts which were grey OVER A KIND OF AUSTIN-HEALEY GREEN! > >> My own preference is the maroon job as my own recollection is that I have > >> NEVER seen a grey engine in a TC (and I have owned ours since 1963) except > >> for the superbly restored example of fellow-lister Andrew Bradley in > >> Washington State, which, if memory serves has a grey engine - and black > > body > >> paint. > >> Yours in total confusion, David Lodge. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> Roger Melton owns TC0257 and is under restoration at our Safety Fast! > >>> Restoration shop - black with green interior. Any opinions on early TC > > engine > >>> colors??? tommm > >>> > >>> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >