Restoration semantics

Bill Harkins · Post by **Bill Harkins** » Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:42 pm

You fellows are missing another critical aspect of restoration definitions. Is the car to be restored as a driver or as a show car? Big difference. Usually much more work/money in the show car, and then it often becomes a trailer queen and can t actually be used as intended in its original state. As they say, you pays your money and take your choice.

Bill Harkins

Fallbrook, CA

C Sherriff · Post by **C Sherriff** » Tue Dec 11, 2001 12:37 am

Message text written by "Bill Harkins"

>Is the car to be restored as a driver or as a show car? Big difference.

Usually much more work/money in the show car,

Bill Harkins · Post by **Bill Harkins** » Tue Dec 11, 2001 8:39 pm

Show cars are not restorations - they are travesties. One man's travesty is another man's pride and joy, perhaps representing several hundred thousand dollars of effort. I think the Pebble Beach crowd would disagree with you, IMHO. Bill Harkins Fallbrook, CA

C Sherriff · Post by **C Sherriff** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 1:09 am

Message text written by "Bill Harkins"

>Show cars are not restorations - they are travesties.

One man's travesty is another man's pride and joy, perhaps representing several hundred thousand dollars of effort. I think the Pebble Beach crowd would disagree with you, IMHO. Bill Harkins Fallbrook, CA

DougPulver@aol.com · Post by **DougPulver@aol.com** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 8:09 am

Nicely stated, Bill. I took some exception to the "travesty" remark as well. I don't own a "show car" nor do I ever intend to, but I still appreciate the time, effort, money, pride and attention to detail that goes into such a vehicle. Doug TC 5850

Ray · Post by **Ray** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 9:07 am

Most of the PB crowd, at least on the greens, don't even drive their own car down to the opening.... Best, Ray

----- Original Message ----- From: "C Sherriff" 100070.740@compuserve.com> To: "Bill Harkins" bharkins@tfb.com> Cc: "C Sherriff" 100070.740@compuserve.com>; "TABCs List" mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:09 AM Subject: RE: [mg-tabc] Restoration semantics > Message text written by "Bill Harkins" > >Show cars are not restorations - they are travesties. > One man's travesty is another man's pride and joy, perhaps representing > several hundred thousand dollars of effort. I think the Pebble Beach crowd > would disagree with you, IMHO. > Bill Harkins > Fallbrook, CA ===================================================== > Hi Bill > > Well they probably would - > > But many of them are more interested in their own image > than that of the cars thew show and wouldnt know if their > hundreds of thousands had bought an original or a fake > anyway > > Clive > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Want1937hd@aol.com · Post by **Want1937hd@aol.com** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 11:31 am

Fore those that are really in the "in" croud there is no need to take the car out of the transporter. Bob TC4956

Most of the PB crowd, at least on the greens, don't even drive their own car down to the opening.... Best, Ray

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 5:45 pm

> Most of the PB crowd, at least on the greens, don't even drive their own

car

> down to the opening.... > Best, > Ray

I did. I drove my '49 Aston Martin from about twenty miles away but then - I didn't win anything either. Maybe that had something to do with the fact that I refused to spend two hours using Q-Tips to remove dust and grass blades from my tire treads.

Emgeeguy@aol.com · Post by **Emgeeguy@aol.com** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 10:15 pm

Like Dave Edgar, I wasn't going to join in, but I think I'll put my 2 cents in. When I bought my J2, I had a hard time making it go in a straight lin, but I bought it anyhow. A new set of tires and adjusting the toe in certainly helped. The car looked very original, but the dasboard had a lot of extra switches, the paint (very old) had been polished enough in a lot of places that it was gone, and I was afraid to drive it hard and fast because i really didn't know the condition of the running gear. So, even though the car had a lot of patina, and some folks would say leave it alone and as is, I decided to take the body parts off, paint them, and clean up the chassis. When the fenders were stripped, the overlap braze joints on the fenders and the aluminum screwed-on strips on the body quarter panel all showed up. Should I have left these alone?? Also, one of the front springs was not a J2 spring, and resulted in the mounting of the front axle to be about 1-1/2 inches further back from the other. The right front hub was where the left one should be, and vice versa. Shocke were toatlly shot. Firewall had several big notches in it, and was painted over. Etc., etc. So, would you purists say that I should have left it alone because it looked so original and had a lot of patina? I couldn't tell whether the fenders had ever been repaired or not. I couldn't see the aluminum strips on the body panel. The springs looked ok, although I could have done some very careful measurements and found that one was wrong. The car sure did have a lot of patina, however. I have elected to restore the car to the way it was in its early life. I am using old bolts except where safty is an issue, all of the old parts, unless worn beyond their use, and am giving it a new paint job. I will be happy with the car, will take it to a few shows probably, but plan to drive it hard and fast because I will know what is there, not unsure as I had been before the dismantling. I don't think this is a bad thing to do. I have saved some of the patina, however, and will sprinkle it on the car in a few places so it will look like an old new car. Larry Long (ps--similar problems with the NB--front hubs switched, all chassis bolts changed to American standard, lube system holes plugged. Trunnion boxes filled with old grease that had carmelized!! Hard to get out. But the car had a lot of patina when I bought it!)

John G. Bulcken IV · Post by **John G. Bulcken IV** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 10:40 pm

Larry, I almost did not jump in. My TB story is almost the same as your J2 story. My TB was driven every day by me when I was 29, even in NYC ! I had very little patina...it had plenty and was dangerous ! It has been apart now for over ten years. I am a purist but bondo, rust out and particle board, and all the wrong parts did not please me....driving it did. Once you must restore though it is nice to do research and try to put it back to what it was...in this case 1939, as much as is possible...time, money etc. are what delays many projects. Your car does not sound like an over the top trailer queen with chrome wheels etc. Yet another subjective opinion, I do not think renovation is the same as restoration, most of our cars have been renovated several times by now which is why they require denovation followed by sensitive and accurate restoration...then driven and the patina will come ! Cheers all, Johnny TB# 0398

----- Original Message ----- [b]From:[/b] Emgeeguy@aol.com [b]To:[/b] bharkins@tfb.com ; 100070.740@compuserve.com [b]Cc:[/b] mg-tabc@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:15 AM [b]Subject:[/b] Re: [mg-tabc] Restoration semantics Like Dave Edgar, I wasn't going to join in, but I think I'll put my 2 cents in. When I bought my J2, I had a hard time making it go in a straight lin, but I bought it anyhow. A new set of tires and adjusting the toe in certainly helped. The car looked very original, but the dasboard had a lot of extra switches, the paint (very old) had been polished enough in a lot of places that it was gone, and I was afraid to drive it hard and fast because i really didn't know the condition of the running gear. So, even though the car had a lot of patina, and some folks would say leave it alone and as is, I decided to take the body parts off, paint them, and clean up the chassis. When the fenders were stripped, the overlap braze joints on the fenders and the aluminum screwed-on strips on the body quarter panel all showed up. Should I have left these alone?? Also, one of the front springs was not a J2 spring, and resulted in the mounting of the front axle to be about 1-1/2 inches further back from the other. The right front hub was where the left one should be, and vice versa. Shocke were toatlly shot. Firewall had several big notches in it, and was painted over. Etc., etc. So, would you purists say that I should have left it alone because it looked so original and had a lot of patina? I couldn't tell whether the fenders had ever been repaired or not. I couldn't see the aluminum strips on the body panel. The springs looked ok, although I could have done some very careful measurements and found that one was wrong. The car sure did have a lot of patina, however. I have elected to restore the car to the way it was in its early life. I am using old bolts except where safty is an issue, all of the old parts, unless worn beyond their use, and am giving it a new paint job. I will be happy with the car, will take it to a few shows probably, but plan to drive it hard and fast because I will know what is there, not unsure as I had been before the dismantling. I don't think this is a bad thing to do. I have saved some of the patina, however, and will sprinkle it on the car in a few places so it will look like an old new car. Larry Long (ps--similar problems with the NB--front hubs switched, all chassis bolts changed to American standard, lube system holes plugged. Trunnion boxes filled with old grease that had carmelized!! Hard to get out. But the car had a lot of patina when I bought it!) Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Wilsons Sandbox