Re: UK painters

[DAI]

Greetings all, I am at the stage of having a few bits of TC6132 painted - specifically the tank, end plates and spare tyre mount. One quote so far is 220 GBP (320 dollars) which I find beyond belief. Amongst our UK members - does anyone have a recommendation of a painter in the SE of England I could use? Thx, DAI __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/

[PMS GB Ltd]

Message text written by DAI

>I am at the stage of having a few bits of TC6132

painted - specifically the tank, end plates and spare tyre mount. One quote so far is 220 GBP (320 dollars) which I find beyond belief.

[Diecuts@aol.com]

DAI, $320 seems like a very reasonable amount to make the Gas tank, end plates, and spare tire carrier 'decent' again. First they are stripped of old paint, which most of us do ourselves.and metal prepped. But then comes: 1. A prep or epoxy coat to establish a barrier against rust, 2 hrs 2. Incidental polyester fillers to remove minor pits and waves. 1 hr 3. Primer acrylic coats- at least three double coats 2 hrs 4. Sanding of above till smooth with minor filler 5 hrs 5. Apply acrylic sealer coat and let dry 1 hr 6. Apply colour coat and let dry- 2-3 coats of acrylic enamel. 2 hrs 7. Colour sand 2 hrs 8. Glaze and polish-tank with power, mostly by hand with tire rack. 4 hrs 9. Add in paint, sandpaper, polish, sealers, to the 19 hrs at $15 per hour (cheap!) plus a little profit for incentive and you have a bargain!! How much does it cost to paint a 'T' series car these days? I'm talking a nice, presentable paint job. Around $15,000 from white metal to read-the-wattage-in-the-light-bulb-shine sound about right? I do my own painting and still spend at least $2000 in materials etc not counting endless hours of time and patience....On the Jag lists, $15,000 to paint a XK120 is considered cheap! And they only have to paint the side that shows!....... Cheers, Lee Jacobsen, Dearborn, MI TA2969 , TC 780

[Mark McCombs]

OK, I'll buy the $320 for the tank and parts... But $15 grand to paint an MG? People may pay that but it shouldn't make it the norm. Thats simply ridiculous. Find a small shop to do the work, see some examples, etc. A good quality small outfit will charge by the job, not the hours. If nothing else, get a copy of TD restoration and buy a gun and compressor, Ill guarantee that the quality of even a cheap set and acrylic Dupont is many times the grade of pre/post-war Abingdon. Good God, how could a car worth $20k in excellent quality justify a $15,000 PAINT job? Enter the hobby killers. Mark TC8126

----- Original Message ----- From: diecuts@aol.com> To: dairwin_2000@yahoo.com>; mg-tabc@egroups.com> Cc: Diecuts@aol.com>; Drcsloan@aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 12:29 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] UK painters > DAI, > > $320 seems like a very reasonable amount to make the Gas tank, end plates, > and spare tire carrier 'decent' again. > > First they are stripped of old paint, which most of us do ourselves.and metal > prepped. But then comes: > 1. A prep or epoxy coat to establish a barrier against rust, 2 hrs > 2. Incidental polyester fillers to remove minor pits and waves. 1 > hr > 3. Primer acrylic coats- at least three double coats 2 hrs > 4. Sanding of above till smooth with minor filler 5 hrs > 5. Apply acrylic sealer coat and let dry 1 hr > 6. Apply colour coat and let dry- 2-3 coats of acrylic enamel. 2 > hrs > 7. Colour sand 2 hrs > 8. Glaze and polish-tank with power, mostly by hand with tire rack. 4 hrs > 9. Add in paint, sandpaper, polish, sealers, to the 19 hrs at $15 per hour > (cheap!) plus a little profit for incentive and you have a bargain!! How > much does it cost to paint a 'T' series car these days? I'm talking a nice, > presentable paint job. Around $15,000 from white metal to > read-the-wattage-in-the-light-bulb-shine sound about right? I do my own > painting and still spend at least $2000 in materials etc not counting endless > hours of time and patience....On the Jag lists, $15,000 to paint a XK120 is > considered cheap! And they only have to paint the side that shows!....... > > Cheers, > > Lee Jacobsen, Dearborn, MI TA2969 , TC 780 > > > > >

[Ray McCrary]

Hi Guys, 15 large for paint is what is known as "over restoration", unless the car is a junker. These are not art objects! Kimber would no doubt get a laugh out of the "PERFECT MG" concept! Drive 'em! Best, Ray McCrary "Speed is Life; of course Luck and Altitude are helpful, too."

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark McCombs" loadcel4@infinet.com> To: mg-tabc@egroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 7:30 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] UK painters > OK, I'll buy the $320 for the tank and parts... But $15 grand to paint an > MG? > People may pay that but it shouldn't make it the norm. Thats simply > ridiculous. > Find a small shop to do the work, see some examples, etc. A good quality > small outfit > will charge by the job, not the hours. If nothing else, get a copy of TD > restoration and buy a gun and compressor, Ill guarantee that the quality of > even a cheap set and acrylic Dupont is many times the grade of pre/post-war > Abingdon. > Good God, how could a car worth $20k in excellent quality justify a $15,000 > PAINT job? > Enter the hobby killers. > Mark TC8126 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: diecuts@aol.com> > To: dairwin_2000@yahoo.com>; mg-tabc@egroups.com> > Cc: Diecuts@aol.com>; Drcsloan@aol.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 12:29 AM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] UK painters > > > > DAI, > > > > $320 seems like a very reasonable amount to make the Gas tank, end > plates, > > and spare tire carrier 'decent' again. > > > > First they are stripped of old paint, which most of us do ourselves.and > metal > > prepped. But then comes: > > 1. A prep or epoxy coat to establish a barrier against rust, 2 > hrs > > 2. Incidental polyester fillers to remove minor pits and waves. > 1 > > hr > > 3. Primer acrylic coats- at least three double coats 2 > hrs > > 4. Sanding of above till smooth with minor filler 5 > hrs > > 5. Apply acrylic sealer coat and let dry 1 > hr > > 6. Apply colour coat and let dry- 2-3 coats of acrylic enamel. > 2 > > hrs > > 7. Colour sand 2 hrs > > 8. Glaze and polish-tank with power, mostly by hand with tire rack. 4 > hrs > > 9. Add in paint, sandpaper, polish, sealers, to the 19 hrs at $15 per > hour > > (cheap!) plus a little profit for incentive and you have a bargain!! How > > much does it cost to paint a 'T' series car these days? I'm talking a > nice, > > presentable paint job. Around $15,000 from white metal to > > read-the-wattage-in-the-light-bulb-shine sound about right? I do my own > > painting and still spend at least $2000 in materials etc not counting > endless > > hours of time and patience....On the Jag lists, $15,000 to paint a XK120 > is > > considered cheap! And they only have to paint the side that shows!....... > > > > Cheers, > > > > Lee Jacobsen, Dearborn, MI TA2969 , TC 780 > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

[Paul Huck]

20K total cost and 15K for paint ? Please send me your perfect TC unpainted for 5K. (They have unpanted furniture stores, why not unpainted MG stores ? Hmmm ?

----- Original Message ----- From: Ray McCrary spook01@home.com> To: mg-tabc@egroups.com>; Mark McCombs loadcel4@infinet.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] UK painters > Hi Guys, > 15 large for paint is what is known as "over restoration", unless the car is > a junker. These are not art objects! > Kimber would no doubt get a laugh out of the "PERFECT MG" concept! > Drive 'em! > Best, > Ray McCrary > "Speed is Life; > of course Luck and Altitude > are helpful, too." > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark McCombs" loadcel4@infinet.com> > To: mg-tabc@egroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 7:30 AM > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] UK painters > > > > OK, I'll buy the $320 for the tank and parts... But $15 grand to paint an > > MG? > > People may pay that but it shouldn't make it the norm. Thats simply > > ridiculous. > > Find a small shop to do the work, see some examples, etc. A good quality > > small outfit > > will charge by the job, not the hours. If nothing else, get a copy of TD > > restoration and buy a gun and compressor, Ill guarantee that the quality > of > > even a cheap set and acrylic Dupont is many times the grade of > pre/post-war > > Abingdon. > > Good God, how could a car worth $20k in excellent quality justify a > $15,000 > > PAINT job? > > Enter the hobby killers. > > Mark TC8126 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: diecuts@aol.com> > > To: dairwin_2000@yahoo.com>; mg-tabc@egroups.com> > > Cc: Diecuts@aol.com>; Drcsloan@aol.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 12:29 AM > > Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] UK painters > > > > > > > DAI, > > > > > > $320 seems like a very reasonable amount to make the Gas tank, end > > plates, > > > and spare tire carrier 'decent' again. > > > > > > First they are stripped of old paint, which most of us do ourselves.and > > metal > > > prepped. But then comes: > > > 1. A prep or epoxy coat to establish a barrier against rust, > 2 > > hrs > > > 2. Incidental polyester fillers to remove minor pits and waves. > > 1 > > > hr > > > 3. Primer acrylic coats- at least three double coats > 2 > > hrs > > > 4. Sanding of above till smooth with minor filler > 5 > > hrs > > > 5. Apply acrylic sealer coat and let dry > 1 > > hr > > > 6. Apply colour coat and let dry- 2-3 coats of acrylic enamel. > > 2 > > > hrs > > > 7. Colour sand 2 > hrs > > > 8. Glaze and polish-tank with power, mostly by hand with tire rack. > 4 > > hrs > > > 9. Add in paint, sandpaper, polish, sealers, to the 19 hrs at $15 per > > hour > > > (cheap!) plus a little profit for incentive and you have a bargain!! > How > > > much does it cost to paint a 'T' series car these days? I'm talking a > > nice, > > > presentable paint job. Around $15,000 from white metal to > > > read-the-wattage-in-the-light-bulb-shine sound about right? I do my > own > > > painting and still spend at least $2000 in materials etc not counting > > endless > > > hours of time and patience....On the Jag lists, $15,000 to paint a XK120 > > is > > > considered cheap! And they only have to paint the side that > shows!....... > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Lee Jacobsen, Dearborn, MI TA2969 , TC 780 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

[Diecuts@aol.com]

Mark and List, I agree with you that $15,000 sounds excessive, but I am talking about a complete paint job where the owner drives in, leaves the car, comes back several months later to admire the job and pick up the pieces to re-assemble back on the frame. The owner receives monthly updates on progress and the bills for work done. As mentioned in 'TCs Forever', the car is stripped, minor dings repaired, re-assembled in bare metal to establish fit, then taken apart and given the 10 step process to make both sides of each piece as new or better. Preparation is 90% of the job. Details such as correctly painting body colour the heads of the bolts that secure the splash pan are dealt with. Blemishes are sanded out and repainted as necessary. If you do the prep, don't expect a guarantee from the painter who charges a thou or so to lay the final colour paint on. Unless previously agreed and discussed, the painter has no clue on what he is spraying over. Are your primers compatible? Did you use the proper polyesters and sealers? Will the colour lift in 2 months? Today's paints are designed as systems from start to finish and can be dangerous to apply. External air supply is a must (positive pressure in an enclosed headpiece and suit) as cynates are nasty. A proper paint job will last 30+ years and still look as new. Sanding marks, small chips, and other deterioration from poor preparation will stay hidden for 1-3 years under the colour, then show up later. If an owner does good prep and bodywork, and will colorsand and polish, $2000 for applying a 'paint job' is possible. Figure 6-8 gallons of paint, epoxy hardeners, & primers sprayed on (and most sanded off) at $50 per gallon plus other materials. Ever wonder why so many cars are out there for years in primer? The owner can always say it is a 'work-in-progress' thus avoiding the paint issue altogether, meanwhile still enjoying the ride..... Excuse the length... Cheers, Lee Jacobsen, Dearborn,MI TA2969, TC780

[DAI]

Dear all, Before the discussion drifts too much, my original question related to my surprise at a quote for 220 pounds to spray a tank. The chap I showed the tank to, could see something I hadn't mentioned - the tank is new from MOSS, and the end plates are also new and in chrome finish. The spare tyre mount is still painted, but the quote assumed I would get that blasted first. Anyway, I appreciate the inputs. I wish to have the tank (the only new part that needs spraying) to match the existing car. In the future (after I get some enjoyment of driving it at last) I will consider a full restoration, but for now I am working to get it up to MOT standard for the government test, and not a full restoration. Regards, DAI --- diecuts@aol.com wrote: > Mark and List,

> > I agree with you that $15,000 sounds excessive, but > I am talking about a > complete paint job where the owner drives in, leaves > the car, comes back > several months later to admire the job and pick up > the pieces to re-assemble > back on the frame. The owner receives monthly > updates on progress and the > bills for work done. As mentioned in 'TCs Forever', > the car is stripped, > minor dings repaired, re-assembled in bare metal to > establish fit, then taken > apart and given the 10 step process to make both > sides of each piece as new > or better. Preparation is 90% of the job. Details > such as correctly > painting body colour the heads of the bolts that > secure the splash pan are > dealt with. Blemishes are sanded out and > repainted as necessary. If you > do the prep, don't expect a guarantee from the > painter who charges a thou or > so to lay the final colour paint on. Unless > previously agreed and discussed, > the painter has no clue on what he is spraying over. > Are your primers > compatible? Did you use the proper polyesters and > sealers? Will the colour > lift in 2 months? Today's paints are designed as > systems from start to > finish and can be dangerous to apply. External air > supply is a must > (positive pressure in an enclosed headpiece and > suit) as cynates are nasty. > A proper paint job will last 30+ years and still > look as new. Sanding marks, > small chips, and other deterioration from poor > preparation will stay hidden > for 1-3 years under the colour, then show up later. > If an owner does good > prep and bodywork, and will colorsand and polish, > $2000 for applying a > 'paint job' is possible. Figure 6-8 gallons of > paint, epoxy hardeners, & > primers sprayed on (and most sanded off) at $50 per > gallon plus other > materials. Ever wonder why so many cars are out > there for years in primer? > The owner can always say it is a 'work-in-progress' > thus avoiding the paint > issue altogether, meanwhile still enjoying the > ride..... > Excuse the length... > Cheers, > Lee Jacobsen, Dearborn,MI TA2969, TC780 > > > >

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/

[David and Joyce Edgar]

With an appology to DAI, I am now posting this message to the group. I in error only replied to him and now he will get it twice. DAI, You didn't mention you had a new Moss tank in your first message. When I was rear ended in October of 1999 I was fitted with a new Moss tank. The first tank leaked (actually a very, very slow ooze) at most the weld joints. A replacement from Moss also leaked when pressure tested and was repaired at a radiator shop and then double slosh coated inside just to make sure it didn't leak. The craftsmanship was terrible and took quite a bit of bondo to hide all the metal warpage. Mike Goodman did all the work and after complaining to Moss with great vigor received the second tank free. They admitted they had many complaints from customers. Before spending money to paint, test for leaks or the paint will blister off after a few months. I would slosh the tank also. The mounting brackets on the new tank that the end plates screw onto need to be checked also. They were a little off and slightly short of accepting the end plate bolts. Mike welded nuts into posititon to solve this if I remember correctly. I would assemble it all on the car before you take to the painters to see if it all lines up. The new end caps I got were on the tight side but worked. Good luck with a possible Pandoras Box (Tank) David Edgar, TC 5108 La Mesa, California

>Dear all, > >Before the discussion drifts too much, my original >question related to my surprise at a quote for 220 >pounds to spray a tank. The chap I showed the tank >to, could see something I hadn't mentioned - the tank >is new from MOSS, and the end plates are also new and >in chrome finish. The spare tyre mount is still >painted, but the quote assumed I would get that >blasted first. > >Anyway, I appreciate the inputs. I wish to have the >tank (the only new part that needs spraying) to match >the existing car. In the future (after I get some >enjoyment of driving it at last) I will consider a >full restoration, but for now I am working to get it >up to MOT standard for the government test, and not a >full restoration. > >Regards, > >DAI

[Ray McCrary]

Just out of curiosity, where are the Moss tanks made? Ray McCrary "Speed is Life; of course Luck and Altitude are helpful, too."

----- Original Message ----- From: "David and Joyce Edgar" djedgar@pacbell.net> To: "T-ABC list" mg-tabc@egroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [mg-tabc] UK painters > With an appology to DAI, I am now posting this message to the group. > I in error only replied to him and now he will get it twice. > > DAI, > > You didn't mention you had a new Moss tank in your first message. > When I was rear ended in October of 1999 I was fitted with a new Moss > tank. The first tank leaked (actually a very, very slow ooze) at > most the weld joints. A replacement from Moss also leaked when > pressure tested and was repaired at a radiator shop and then double > slosh coated inside just to make sure it didn't leak. The > craftsmanship was terrible and took quite a bit of bondo to hide all > the metal warpage. Mike Goodman did all the work and after > complaining to Moss with great vigor received the second tank free. > They admitted they had many complaints from customers. Before > spending money to paint, test for leaks or the paint will blister off > after a few months. I would slosh the tank also. > > The mounting brackets on the new tank that the end plates screw onto > need to be checked also. They were a little off and slightly short > of accepting the end plate bolts. Mike welded nuts into posititon to > solve this if I remember correctly. I would assemble it all on the > car before you take to the painters to see if it all lines up. The > new end caps I got were on the tight side but worked. > > Good luck with a possible Pandoras Box (Tank) > > David Edgar, TC 5108 > La Mesa, California > > > >Dear all, > > > >Before the discussion drifts too much, my original > >question related to my surprise at a quote for 220 > >pounds to spray a tank. The chap I showed the tank > >to, could see something I hadn't mentioned - the tank > >is new from MOSS, and the end plates are also new and > >in chrome finish. The spare tyre mount is still > >painted, but the quote assumed I would get that > >blasted first. > > > >Anyway, I appreciate the inputs. I wish to have the > >tank (the only new part that needs spraying) to match > >the existing car. In the future (after I get some > >enjoyment of driving it at last) I will consider a > >full restoration, but for now I am working to get it > >up to MOT standard for the government test, and not a > >full restoration. > > > >Regards, > > > >DAI > > > >