leaning trike

[Bruce Bordt]

Last summer I replaced the front fork seals and fork oil due to slight leaking near the seal.  I did not replace the bushings.  They did not appear to be worn or loose.  I now have what I can best describe as a harsh metal-on-metal clanging that happens in the front fork area when I hit a washboard or pot hole in the road.  It almost sounds like something is loose in the area of the speedometer cluster or below.  When I raise the front tire off the ground I do not find anything that has play or is loose.  My question is, if the bushings are worn, how would they affect driving?  Anyone else have this problem or suggestions what to look for?

 

Thanks,

Bruce

 

[Shane Bland]

_filtered #ygrps-yiv-602260150 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}Sounds like steering head bearings. Shane.

On July 18, 2016, at 9:41 PM, "'Bruce Bordt' brucebordt@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Last summer I replaced the front fork seals and fork oil due to slight leaking near the seal.  I did not replace the bushings.  They did not appear to be worn or loose.  I now have what I can best describe as a harsh metal-on-metal clanging that happens in the front fork area when I hit a washboard or pot hole in the road.  It almost sounds like something is loose in the area of the speedometer cluster or below.  When I raise the front tire off the ground I do not find anything that has play or is loose.  My question is, if the bushings are worn, how would they affect driving?  Anyone else have this problem or suggestions what to look for?  

Thanks,

Bruce

 

[jeffsaline]

#ygrps-yiv-1657318160 .ygrps-yiv-1657318160ygrp-photo-title { OVERFLOW:hidden;FONT-SIZE:smaller;HEIGHT:15px;WIDTH:75px;TEXT-ALIGN:center;CLEAR:both;} #ygrps-yiv-1657318160 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1657318160ygrp-photo { BORDER-TOP:black 1px solid;HEIGHT:62px;BORDER-RIGHT:black 1px solid;WIDTH:62px;BACKGROUND-REPEAT:no-repeat;BORDER-BOTTOM:black 1px solid;BACKGROUND-POSITION:center 50%;BORDER-LEFT:black 1px solid;BACKGROUND-COLOR:white;} #ygrps-yiv-1657318160 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1657318160photo-title A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1657318160 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1657318160photo-title A:active { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1657318160 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1657318160photo-title A:hover { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1657318160 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1657318160photo-title A:visited { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1657318160 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1657318160attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1657318160attach-row { CLEAR:both;} #ygrps-yiv-1657318160 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1657318160attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1657318160attach-row DIV { FLOAT:left;} #ygrps-yiv-1657318160 P { OVERFLOW:hidden;PADDING-BOTTOM:3px;PADDING-TOP:15px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;CLEAR:both;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-1657318160 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1657318160ygrp-file { WIDTH:30px;} #ygrps-yiv-1657318160 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1657318160attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1657318160attach-row DIV DIV A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1657318160 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1657318160attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1657318160attach-row DIV DIV SPAN { FONT-WEIGHT:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-1657318160 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1657318160ygrp-file-title { FONT-WEIGHT:bold;} _filtered #ygrps-yiv-1657318160 { font-family:Calibri;} On July 18, 2016, at 9:41 PM, "'Bruce Bordt' brucebordt@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Last summer I replaced the front fork seals and fork oil due to slight leaking near the seal.  I did not replace the bushings.  They did not appear to be worn or loose.  I now have what I can best describe as a harsh metal-on-metal clanging that happens in the front fork area when I hit a washboard or pot hole in the road.  It almost sounds like something is loose in the area of the speedometer cluster or below.  When I raise the front tire off the ground I do not find anything that has play or is loose.  My question is, if the bushings are worn, how would they affect driving?  Anyone else have this problem or suggestions what to look for?   Thanks,   Bruce   On Mon, 18 Jul 2016 22:03:51 -0400 "Shane Bland twrecks2@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes: Sounds like steering head bearings. Shane. <><><><><><><> <><><><><><><>   I agree with Shane.  Sounds like loose steering head bearings.  In my experience, usually, when you can hear the clanging noise it means the bearings are damaged and should be replaced.   Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650     . . . . . . . .   ____________________________________________________________ [b]Affordable Wireless Plans[/b] Set up is easy. Get online in minutes. Starting at only $9.95 per month! www.netzero.net

[foshad]

Good point.  I did check the steering bearings when I had the front wheel off the ground.  With the top pinch bolts loose I snugged up the stem nut ever so slightly.  It didn't seem like it needed much.  The handlebars move smoothly from side to side with little effort.  Everything seems tight but not too tight.  There's no noise while moving from side to side.  Could the bearings be bad yet still exhibit smooth movement?  Anyway to check them without tearing the front end apart?

[jeffsaline]

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[george.eckles]

I'd try one if I had an extra $ 25-30 K. Get Outlook for Android On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 4:14 PM -0700, "Martin Earl mjearl4@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Jay Leno's Garage featuring, "Tilting Motor Works Leaning Trikes" A different kind of three wheel bike worth looking at; Leno seems impressed. https://youtu.be/T3TumQ-ueMU Like to hear what you think; the author says it is completely plug and play. martinearl.

[foshad]

I did tighten the lower slotted nut using a spanner wrench.  I now have the front end apart and the steering stem removed.  I am going to replace the bearings and seals.  Two questions:

1. What is the trick to getting the lower bearing off the steering stem?  The top one popped right off.  The factory manual says to use a chisel to remove the lower bearing.  I take it that will destroy the bearing which is ok since I plan to replace it.  Is there a better, easier way?

2. What brand is a good replacement?  Where to buy from?

Maybe that's more than two questions.  Thanks for any help.

[jeffsaline]

#ygrps-yiv-481558461 .ygrps-yiv-481558461ygrp-photo-title { OVERFLOW:hidden;FONT-SIZE:smaller;HEIGHT:15px;WIDTH:75px;TEXT-ALIGN:center;CLEAR:both;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 DIV.ygrps-yiv-481558461ygrp-photo { BORDER-TOP:black 1px solid;HEIGHT:62px;BORDER-RIGHT:black 1px solid;WIDTH:62px;BACKGROUND-REPEAT:no-repeat;BORDER-BOTTOM:black 1px solid;BACKGROUND-POSITION:center 50%;BORDER-LEFT:black 1px solid;BACKGROUND-COLOR:white;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 DIV.ygrps-yiv-481558461photo-title A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 DIV.ygrps-yiv-481558461photo-title A:active { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 DIV.ygrps-yiv-481558461photo-title A:hover { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 DIV.ygrps-yiv-481558461photo-title A:visited { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 DIV.ygrps-yiv-481558461attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-481558461attach-row { CLEAR:both;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 DIV.ygrps-yiv-481558461attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-481558461attach-row DIV { FLOAT:left;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 P { OVERFLOW:hidden;PADDING-BOTTOM:3px;PADDING-TOP:15px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;CLEAR:both;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 DIV.ygrps-yiv-481558461ygrp-file { WIDTH:30px;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 DIV.ygrps-yiv-481558461attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-481558461attach-row DIV DIV A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 DIV.ygrps-yiv-481558461attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-481558461attach-row DIV DIV SPAN { FONT-WEIGHT:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 DIV.ygrps-yiv-481558461ygrp-file-title { FONT-WEIGHT:bold;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 #ygrps-yiv-481558461ygrp-mkp { BORDER-TOP:#d8d8d8 1px solid;FONT-FAMILY:Arial;BORDER-RIGHT:#d8d8d8 1px solid;BORDER-BOTTOM:#d8d8d8 1px solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;PADDING-TOP:0px;PADDING-LEFT:10px;MARGIN:10px 0px;BORDER-LEFT:#d8d8d8 1px solid;PADDING-RIGHT:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 #ygrps-yiv-481558461ygrp-mkp HR { BORDER-TOP:#d8d8d8 1px solid;BORDER-RIGHT:#d8d8d8 1px solid;BORDER-BOTTOM:#d8d8d8 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:#d8d8d8 1px solid;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 #ygrps-yiv-481558461ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-481558461hd { FONT-SIZE:85%;FONT-WEIGHT:700;COLOR:#628c2a;MARGIN:10px 0px;LINE-HEIGHT:122%;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 #ygrps-yiv-481558461ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-481558461ads { MARGIN-BOTTOM:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 #ygrps-yiv-481558461ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-481558461ad { PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;PADDING-TOP:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 #ygrps-yiv-481558461ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-481558461ad P { MARGIN:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-481558461 #ygrps-yiv-481558461ygrp-mkp .ygrps-yiv-481558461ad A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;COLOR:#0000ff;} On 19 Jul 2016 19:12:05 -0700 "brucebordt@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes:   I did tighten the lower slotted nut using a spanner wrench.  I now have the front end apart and the steering stem removed.  I am going to replace the bearings and seals.  Two questions: 1. What is the trick to getting the lower bearing off the steering stem?  The top one popped right off.  The factory manual says to use a chisel to remove the lower bearing.  I take it that will destroy the bearing which is ok since I plan to replace it.  Is there a better, easier way? 2. What brand is a good replacement?  Where to buy from? Maybe that's more than two questions.  Thanks for any help.   <><><><><><><> <><><><><><><>   Bruce,   Make sure you protect the threads on the steering stem.   When I remove a lower steering bearing from the steering stem I use a cut-off wheel in a die grinder.  I have used a cut-off wheel (heavy-duty) in a dremel tool but it takes much longer and usually a few wheels.  I cut the cage from the bearing first.  When the inner race is exposed I make a diagonal cut in the race until I am almost to the stem.  When I think I am about there I smack the cut with a cold chisel and good size hammer.  If the cut is deep enough the inner race will crack and then it will easily slide off the stem.  If it doesn't crack I'll use the cut-off wheel a bit more and try again.  I make an effort to not cut the stem but have failed at that a few times.  A small nick shouldn't hurt the stem but you make the call as to what is ok or not.   I have had good results with AllBalls bearing kits.  I recall the seals don't work so well but the bearings work fine.  If you are only replacing the lower bearing I've had good results with a NAPA bearing:  HR 320/28XJ  NDK   Japan  A   (NAPA Part BR32).  If I recall correctly it now costs about $30.  You could also check with a BMW Motorcycle dealer and check on price and availability for the steering head bearing(s) used on an airhead BMW.  Maybe ask about it for a 1976 R90/6.  The airheads use the same bearing top and bottom.   The only upper bearing I've found for the KLR is the OEM bearing or the one in the AllBalls kit.   Maybe the question you should really be asking is how to get the outer races out of the steering head.  If you are good/lucky you might be able to use a long punch and work around the race to get it out.  I use a MIG (wire feed) welder and weld a bead around the inside of the race.  When the weld cools a bit (about 45 seconds) the race can easily be removed.  You can then use the removed race as a driver to install the new outer race.  (**Make sure you install it in the correct orientation as you only get one shot at it.)  I haven't done it but have heard of guys using a cut-off wheel to make a divot in the steering head directly above the lower race.  That makes room for a punch to get some purchase.   To install the outer races I freeze them in a plastic bag in the freezer.  A few hours is usually enough but over night might be better.  Don't remove them from the freezer until you are less than a minute from installation.  Don't handle them more than you have to.  Don't do it with bare flesh touching the race(s).  I also heat the steering head (by welding when removing the old race(s) ) and then immediately installing the new race which has been frozen.  Remember to use the removed outer race as a driver to install the new outer race.  If you aren't going the welding route you can use a heat gun if you have patience or a propane torch.  It is good to remove the old lubricant and also have a fire extinguisher handy.  Get the steering head to about 200 degrees F or so.  Spitting on the steering head should produce a sizzle.   To install the lower bearing on the stem I freeze the stem in a plastic bag.  Same rule as above, don't remove until you are within one minute of installation.  Don't handle more than you have to.  Don't let bare flesh touch the stem or bearing.  I lube the bearing with a high quality wheel bearing grease (has a high drop point).  I then hang it from a bent coat hanger or piece of welding wire.  I heat it with a heat gun (hot air) not a torch until the grease is about to start dropping.  Make sure you have a lower seal ready to install and put it on the stem, then the bearing in the correct orientation (you only get one chance).  I use a piece of pipe or PVC to slip over the stem and only contact the inner race.  Do not bang on the bearings or cage as you will damage the assembly.   For both the outer races and the lower inner race make sure you have them fully seated.  You should hear a difference as they fully seat.  If you don't get the parts fully seated it will require multiple adjustments (maybe for the next 500-5,000 miles) to get the parts to fully seat and the adjustment correct.  It might also damage the bearings and require new parts.   I make the initial adjustment before installing the forks.  It is pretty easy to feel the difference between too loose, just right and too tight.  Make sure you check the adjustment after you've tighten the lock nut as that can make a change in the adjustment nut thread engagement.  If the lock nut changes the adjustment make a change in the adjustment and try again.   Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . . . . . .       . ____________________________________________________________ [b]Affordable Wireless Plans[/b] Set up is easy. Get online in minutes. Starting at only $9.95 per month! www.netzero.net

[skypilot110]

+1 on AllBalls and very nicely written as always Jeff.

My experience with the lower outer race was unpleasant until I took my arc welder to it. Two small beads to weld nuts on it so I had something to hit from the top. Funny thing was that it just slid out after that. It doesnt take much of a weld to shrink that race. 

Some posts mention cutting or filing slots in the top of the seat so you can hit the outer race from above the next time. Kawasaki took away those puller slots at some point because they got brain dead somehow. If you do that, and it is a good idea if you will keep it long enough to change them again, just make sure you dont leave any chips or bumps on the lower seat to affect how the bearing seats.

Chris

[foshad]

Jeff,

Thanks for the detailed explanation.  I can see that this is probably more than I can do by myself.  For now I think I will just clean the bearings and re-grease and install.  The races look smooth and shiny with no rust or pitting.  The bearings look to be in good condition too.  I'll give that a try and if it doesn't fix the problem I will have to follow your guidelines and do a replacement.

One more question though.  Is it really necessary to replace the races if they are smooth and shiny? Can't I just replace the bearings.  I think I can handle replacing the bearings but getting the races out and back in sounds like I might be in over my head.

Bruce