windhshield visor

[jwflower53]

When I changed the oil filter I installed a Motion Pro Oil Filter Magnet, part no.11-0064.  Instructions were to install "on top of the rubber seal".  There being no "top", I arbitrarily chose to put it on the outside end of the filter.  It fits nicely, around the grommet but inside the indent in the metal frame of the filter.  Questions: (1)  Is this this this of any real use, and (2) if it is, will it pick up more "lint" if placed on the outside or the inside end of the filter?  I see the two holes in the bottom of the cavity in which the filter fits, toward the outside end.  But I have no idea which way the oil goes, if it goes through there at all. -JW

[Norm Keller]

#ygrps-yiv-586439275 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-586439275cite {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;} #ygrps-yiv-586439275 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-586439275cite2 {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;margin-top:3px;padding-top:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-586439275 .ygrps-yiv-586439275plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-586439275 .ygrps-yiv-586439275plain tt {font-family:monospace;font-size:100%;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-586439275 a img {border:0px;}#ygrps-yiv-586439275 {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} #ygrps-yiv-586439275 .ygrps-yiv-586439275plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-586439275 .ygrps-yiv-586439275plain tt {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} My son has a computer systems business so I recycle some old hard drives by saving the magnets to stick on the outside of spin on oil filters. It amuses me to think that it might help something and costs nothing. I just snap the magnet to the end of the filter and switch to the next during the oil change.   It's likely the same for those Motion Pro magnets. I'd expect to see magnets included into oil filters if there were a demonstrable advantage though so simply amuse myself thinking that it can do no harm. What if it magnetizes the liquid tungsten and generates eddy currents making my crankcase vent glow in the dark?    Sorry, was thinking of those woo products which use magnets to "orient the molecules of the fuel" so improve mileage and other fantastic claims.    Cleaning the goo off a drain plug or oil filter cavity magnet adds to the tactile experience but couldn't begin to construct an argument to defend that these magnets actually are useful.   I suppose we could do a survey here in which we use a magnet on alternate oil changes and compare the oil analysis reports? Might be fun and would be interesting to learn the reported outcomes. Not certain that the study model would provide the data expected but willing to opt in if we had 20 or so others who would do so for, say... four oil changes. That would be two with magnet & two without.   Time of year/temperatures, oil types and riding conditions would have an effect so summer might provide more consistent conditions.

[mark ward]

I would say YES! Based on the Drain plug Mag, collecting metal "dust". The faster it takes it out of the oil cycling threw the Engine & Clutch plates ETC ETC. the better. Where? (What end?) 1st thought. Closest to the engine side, where the 1st side hole in the tube dumps oil into the filter, BEFORE Leaving the filter. On Friday, October 31, 2014 1:56 PM, "'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  My son has a computer systems business so I recycle some old hard drives by saving the magnets to stick on the outside of spin on oil filters. It amuses me to think that it might help something and costs nothing. I just snap the magnet to the end of the filter and switch to the next during the oil change.   It's likely the same for those Motion Pro magnets. I'd expect to see magnets included into oil filters if there were a demonstrable advantage though so simply amuse myself thinking that it can do no harm. What if it magnetizes the liquid tungsten and generates eddy currents making my crankcase vent glow in the dark?    Sorry, was thinking of those woo products which use magnets to "orient the molecules of the fuel" so improve mileage and other fantastic claims.    Cleaning the goo off a drain plug or oil filter cavity magnet adds to the tactile experience but couldn't begin to construct an argument to defend that these magnets actually are useful.   I suppose we could do a survey here in which we use a magnet on alternate oil changes and compare the oil analysis reports? Might be fun and would be interesting to learn the reported outcomes. Not certain that the study model would provide the data expected but willing to opt in if we had 20 or so others who would do so for, say... four oil changes. That would be two with magnet & two without.   Time of year/temperatures, oil types and riding conditions would have an effect so summer might provide more consistent conditions.

[jet_doctor2002]

I have been running one of the Motion Pro magnets in my KLR, and have also been running a magnetic drain plug.  I can see no downsides, and many upsides.

I work on jet engines, and one of the preventative maintenance operations is checking magnetic chip detectors.  There is usually a master chip detector, and then one in each of the oil scavenge line coming from the main bearing cavities.  If there is metal on the master chip detector, you can trouble shoot which bearing is going bad.  This, along with a spectral oil analysis program, will catch components before failure.  Engines turn or people swim and such.  On a KLR, if you found a large amount of metal on the magnet, it would be time to look for a problem--before the engine fails.

On motorcycles like the KLR which share the transmission oil and engine oil, there is always going to be metal in the oil from shifting gears.  Just the nature of the system.  It makes sense to catch the metal from the gears rather than have it rolled into the bearing races and other places where it is not supposed to be.  Not all of the oil is filtered on a KLR, since some of the bearings are simply splash lubricated.  Saying that a filter will catch all of the metal sounds good in theory, but practically is not going to happen.     

Cheers,

Doug

      

[jwflower53]

Doug, thanks for your thoughts.  Question:  Should I put the filter magnet on the outboard end, the inboard end, or- what the heck- both ends?

-JW

[Jeff Saline]

#ygrps-yiv-1911372649 .ygrps-yiv-1911372649ygrp-photo-title { TEXT-ALIGN:center;WIDTH:75px;HEIGHT:15px;CLEAR:both;FONT-SIZE:smaller;OVERFLOW:hidden;} #ygrps-yiv-1911372649 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1911372649ygrp-photo { BORDER-BOTTOM:black 1px solid;BORDER-LEFT:black 1px solid;BACKGROUND-COLOR:white;WIDTH:62px;BACKGROUND-REPEAT:no-repeat;BACKGROUND-POSITION:center 50%;HEIGHT:62px;BORDER-TOP:black 1px solid;BORDER-RIGHT:black 1px solid;} #ygrps-yiv-1911372649 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1911372649photo-title A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1911372649 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1911372649photo-title A:active { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1911372649 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1911372649photo-title A:hover { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1911372649 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1911372649photo-title A:visited { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1911372649 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1911372649attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1911372649attach-row { CLEAR:both;} #ygrps-yiv-1911372649 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1911372649attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1911372649attach-row DIV { FLOAT:left;} #ygrps-yiv-1911372649 P { PADDING-BOTTOM:3px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;CLEAR:both;OVERFLOW:hidden;PADDING-TOP:15px;} #ygrps-yiv-1911372649 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1911372649ygrp-file { WIDTH:30px;} #ygrps-yiv-1911372649 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1911372649attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1911372649attach-row DIV DIV A { TEXT-DECORATION:none;} #ygrps-yiv-1911372649 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1911372649attach-table DIV.ygrps-yiv-1911372649attach-row DIV DIV SPAN { FONT-WEIGHT:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-1911372649 DIV.ygrps-yiv-1911372649ygrp-file-title { FONT-WEIGHT:bold;} On Sun, 2 Nov 2014 12:24:06 -0800 "mark ward nomad59@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> writes:   >>>> I still waiting for Jeff S. to jump in on the "Magent debate", I have great respect for his KNOWLEDGE. (& opinions)   <><><><><><><> <><><><><><><>   Mark, Norm,   I've been holding my opinions as I'm not passionate about the magnets.  I do use a magnetic drain plug on my KLR.  I've never used a magnet on the filter or in the sump of a vehicle.  I've also done some oil analysis on my KLR and only change the filter every other oil change.  In my experience the filter does a pretty good job capturing particles as delivered from the package.   I "think" the magnet is a fine idea if a guy wants to use one.  I'm guessing it won't hurt anything that can be proven.   I have wondered if putting a fairly strong magnet on the end of the filter might magnetize the metal in the filter enough to help capture particles.   I do remain cautious with magnets around mechanical stuff.  Demagnetizing a bearing is a fine idea before installation as a magnetized bearing will attract particles that can be damaging and shorten bearing life.  I don't use a magnetic tray for parts as I "think" it has the potential to cause issues down the road.   On the other hand... the tip of a fine pliers I use for fly tying for my trout fishing is magnetized and works well in picking up small hooks.   Best, Jeff Saline The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650 . . . . .     ____________________________________________________________ [b]Odd Trick Fights Diabetes[/b] "Unique" Proven Method To Control Blood Sugar In 3 Weeks. Watch Video. DiabetesProtocol.com

[normkel2000]

I was hoping for some input of this nature from other mechanical systems in order to add perspective. Thanks.

Several points, IMO.

1) I like the drain plug magnet to provide convenient indication of pieces of "stuff" for warning purposes.

2) The use of sump drain magnets is so widely applied that one would assume that the more informed would have identified problems with the use so continue to conclude that this is useful practice.

3) I cannot make the case for installing a magnet(s) in other locations as I lack both the engineering and empirical data. Neither can I assess the risks.

4) The benefit seems questionable at best because of the difficulty in removing particles from distance through the oil. 

5) The potential for concentrating and broadcasting "lumps" of material is easy to demonstrate while the advantage which might be gained is simply un-scaled speculation.

Conclusion from my perspective is that I likely won't be able to identify a difference with and without magnet. For me, this would be simply a "feel good" modification with the downside that I feel less good about the potential for concentrating lumps of material or producing magnetic material which is circulated.

Jeff reminded me that I have neglected degaussing engine and transmission bearings as well as transmission gears. Face palming over another practice which has slipped below the horizon. This is just another illustration of how far my practice has deteriorated....

If you do proceed with this, Mark, it will be interesting to hear whether you are able to discern any effects. Perhaps placing a magnet before and after the oil filter might show that there is material which makes it through the filter but which is trapped by the magnet. I'm still concerned with magnetic stuff adhering to bearings and given that we see no significant issues in the KLR, wondering if some might be introduced.

As much as I wish to do so, I have moved far beyond what I can demonstrate and offered all the questions which come to mind.

Most interesting subject and will follow up with friends in the industrial hydraulics, helicopter specialty component repair and some other fields. If something comes from those areas, I will report.

Sitting back with popcorn.  ;-)

[normkel2000]

While some of the engine and transmission components may be splash lubricated, I think the majority of the lubrication arises from the splash created by pressure fed oil making its way to the sump. Does this seem in accurate?

Some windage effect will throw sump oil around, I accept but even this oil will cycle through the oil filter so all the oil is filtered excepting for materials which may arise and be broadcast before passing through the oil filter.

I am most concerned with the use of too thick oil which causes oil filter bypass, in this regards.

How do others scale/balance the splash feed potential?

[Fred Hink]

The rare earth magnets used in most magnetic drain plugs are very strong.  I have lifted a 12 Crescent wrench with the ones I sell.  For the very fine steel dust that may find it s way to a magnetic drain plug, my money is on the drain plug winning this tug of war.   Fred http://www.arrowheadmotorsports.com   [b]From:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Sent:[/b] Monday, November 03, 2014 10:18 AM [b]To:[/b] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [b]Subject:[/b] [DSN_KLR650] Re: Motion Pro Oil Filter Magnet    

I was hoping for some input of this nature from other mechanical systems in order to add perspective. Thanks.   Several points, IMO.   1) I like the drain plug magnet to provide convenient indication of pieces of "stuff" for warning purposes.   2) The use of sump drain magnets is so widely applied that one would assume that the more informed would have identified problems with the use so continue to conclude that this is useful practice.   3) I cannot make the case for installing a magnet(s) in other locations as I lack both the engineering and empirical data. Neither can I assess the risks.   4) The benefit seems questionable at best because of the difficulty in removing particles from distance through the oil.   5) The potential for concentrating and broadcasting "lumps" of material is easy to demonstrate while the advantage which might be gained is simply un-scaled speculation.   Conclusion from my perspective is that I likely won't be able to identify a difference with and without magnet. For me, this would be simply a "feel good" modification with the downside that I feel less good about the potential for concentrating lumps of material or producing magnetic material which is circulated.   Jeff reminded me that I have neglected degaussing engine and transmission bearings as well as transmission gears. Face palming over another practice which has slipped below the horizon. This is just another illustration of how far my practice has deteriorated....   If you do proceed with this, Mark, it will be interesting to hear whether you are able to discern any effects. Perhaps placing a magnet before and after the oil filter might show that there is material which makes it through the filter but which is trapped by the magnet. I'm still concerned with magnetic stuff adhering to bearings and given that we see no significant issues in the KLR, wondering if some might be introduced.   As much as I wish to do so, I have moved far beyond what I can demonstrate and offered all the questions which come to mind.   Most interesting subject and will follow up with friends in the industrial hydraulics, helicopter specialty component repair and some other fields. If something comes from those areas, I will report.   Sitting back with popcorn. 

[normkel2000]

Before someone points to the obvious, allow a face palm:

Sometimes I'm too dumb for words. If magnetizing and rebroadcasting material was an issue, then likely we should remove the alternator rotor because it will have much more effect than a magnet in the oil sump or filter housing....right?

Not certain that this speaks to the potential for forming and dislodging lumps of material but one thing off the list of questions. Might feel less foolish if could hide the rotor magnet thing...    ;-)

Off to cool my red face.