inermittent fan failure

[Norm Keller]

#ygrps-yiv-888176318 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-888176318cite {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;} #ygrps-yiv-888176318 blockquote.ygrps-yiv-888176318cite2 {margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:10px;padding-right:0px;border-left:1px solid #cccccc;margin-top:3px;padding-top:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-888176318 .ygrps-yiv-888176318plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-888176318 .ygrps-yiv-888176318plain tt {font-family:monospace;font-size:100%;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} #ygrps-yiv-888176318 {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} #ygrps-yiv-888176318 .ygrps-yiv-888176318plain pre, #ygrps-yiv-888176318 .ygrps-yiv-888176318plain tt {font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;} Some may recall my conversion of both tires to tubeless (no tubes) and that we were unable to reseal the front tire beads using electric tire pump, small CO2 cartridge, cargo strap and some bad language. Nick took the front wheel to a local gas station and instantly sealed and seated the beads using their tire pump. A bot more leakage than the small pump/cartridge volume could overcome.   The new Shinko front, after being mounted for a few days, will seal the beads with a large C02 cartridge and sometimes with the connect-the-two-tires-bridal. I've set the front tire sealing aside as just installed the Tubeliss system today and will see how that performs. It balanced out quite easily with only one ounce more weight than before. I will see how the balance holds up after the tire has a few miles (new Shinko). The bigger problem of sealing the rear tubeless tire beads remains so will play with that and report in case it is of interest. I suspect that a big CO2 will do that job also so will likely have to buy one. Has anyone suggestions? Had a long and very enjoyable conversation with Jeff (owner) of Tubeliss this morning. Some things I recall but should recognize that these are filtered by my impressions: They are exploring a 17" version but the delay has been because of the differences in wheel width used in the 17" range of wheels. The molds for the "inner tire" are very expensive to have produced so the motivation to at least break even has them looking very hard at this segment. Jeff also mentioned that they are exploring a new product which will offer improved performance but was (obviously) very circumspect as to what it would be. It seems that this might be more road and 17" attractive- my impression. He also mentioned that they are looking at producing their own tires which will allow them to design in many of the things they have learned in their research. Very, very interesting and enthusiastic guy who is also easily diverted to philosophy and psychology which was the subject of most of our conversation.   FWIW, the install of the Tubeliss insert and tire was easy-peasy.

[Martin Earl]

Hi Norm,Not sure my story directly relates...but appreciate your research on the tubless.I followed the links and drank some of the kool-aid, and found the advertisement fascinating. Tire installation and de-installation is sometimes painful, and sometimes painless. The least painful experience (no tubeless experience to report) was after letting the tires sit in the sun, on the concrete for an hour in 90F heat.Both (new Kenda 270 tires) front and rear beads seated with a bicycle hand pump at 30psi. One of the worst experiences was with Dunlop 607 in the winter time; they did not have the flexibility of preheated beads, but were installed at about 60F ambient shop temp, but not cold soaked below 50F as they were riding in the back of the suburban. I have heard of some people soaking their tires in the hot bath water or placing the tires next to the furnace (winter installation) for an extended period of time to make the tire more flexible.revmaaatin.

On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 5:33 PM, 'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Some may recall my conversion of both tires to tubeless (no tubes) and that we were unable to reseal the front tire beads using electric tire pump, small CO2 cartridge, cargo strap and some bad language. Nick took the front wheel to a local gas station and instantly sealed and seated the beads using their tire pump. A bot more leakage than the small pump/cartridge volume could overcome. The new Shinko front, after being mounted for a few days, will seal the beads with a large C02 cartridge and sometimes with the connect-the-two-tires-bridal. I've set the front tire sealing aside as just installed the Tubeliss system today and will see how that performs. It balanced out quite easily with only one ounce more weight than before. I will see how the balance holds up after the tire has a few miles (new Shinko). The bigger problem of sealing the rear tubeless tire beads remains so will play with that and report in case it is of interest. I suspect that a big CO2 will do that job also so will likely have to buy one. Has anyone suggestions? Had a long and very enjoyable conversation with Jeff (owner) of Tubeliss this morning. Some things I recall but should recognize that these are filtered by my impressions: They are exploring a 17" version but the delay has been because of the differences in wheel width used in the 17" range of wheels. The molds for the "inner tire" are very expensive to have produced so the motivation to at least break even has them looking very hard at this segment. Jeff also mentioned that they are exploring a new product which will offer improved performance but was (obviously) very circumspect as to what it would be. It seems that this might be more road and 17" attractive- my impression. He also mentioned that they are looking at producing their own tires which will allow them to design in many of the things they have learned in their research. Very, very interesting and enthusiastic guy who is also easily diverted to philosophy and psychology which was the subject of most of our conversation. FWIW, the install of the Tubeliss insert and tire was easy-peasy.

[landsail]

I have also been in contact with Jeff at Tubliss and hope their 17 in wheel for large adv bikes happens. For two years I have good reliability using their system on smaller width wheels on my XR400R and would like to see them offered for KLR and other big adv bikes. Meanwhile I have used a NAPA tire bead sealer on my tube type tires on some tubless 8 in wheels on one of my landsailors. Mark in Nevada

[klrbugeater]

Hi Group, I've been to a few Horizons Unlimited get togethers including the tech talks with Susan and Grant.    The standard H.U. practice is to always have a tube, in tubeless wheels/tires.  That's what they advise.    The issue it appears, is the re-seating of the tire bead (if it breaks from the wheel).  A rider can always re-seat the bead with a patched tube.  Even with a dirty old bicycle pump in the middle of Botswana with lions, buzzards and an entire village of curious kids circling you and, it's like 120 degrees and...  Wait, where was I going with this?

[Norm Keller]

klrbugeater posted: "The standard H.U. practice is to always have a tube, in tubeless wheels/tires. That's what they advise."

 

Just to clarify: are they recommending running tubes in tubeless applications or carrying a tube to install in the event of difficulty in sealing a bead?

 

Curious as to whether they have a view on the Tubliss system?

 

 

[landsail]

The tubliss system uses a small diameter red tube at 100 to 110 psi using a new valve stem hole and a wheel sticker reminder to check pressure before each ride , especially if the bike has not been ridden daily.  Anoter reason I am getting the remote sensing system tht uses valve caps and a a keyfob that can be moved from bike to bike for my longer trips.  Anyway, with the spoke/rim sealing system that comes with this $100 system, one can then air up a tube type tire without a tube.  For dirt use, one can air down to very low air pressure if needed without fear of tube pinch, etc as the 100 to 110 psi keeps the tire sealed with the wheel.  Punctures can be fixed with a off-road or on-road tire plugger kit.  I carry a small air compressor instead of the CO2 cartridges on my bikes on trips longer that across town (10 mi in Reno/sparks).  No problems on my dual sport (NV is easy for that conversion) XR400R and even after long storage, the Tubliss inner tube has almost 100 psi and the tire has minimal leakdown.  Using nitrogen would be better, but home use equipment is still too pricey to use that, 78% nitrogen in air is what most of us use anyway.  I look forward to the Tubliss system for larger adv bike like the KLR 650.  Dur to tire width, heat of high speed use on highways, etc, Tubliss is taking their time developing this system or a modification of it and any encouragement to them will help them decide that there is a market for this product in larger bike tires beyond off-road bikes.  Meanwhile, I owe all more information on the NAPA tire bead sealer I use on some tubless landsailing wheels with tires designed for tubes that I do not use tubes in.

I'll photograph the can label and detail it's adhesive properties.  Mark in No. Nevada.

[ron criswell]

I have been interested in the Tubliss system also....but realize they have to be very cautious because of legal issues concerning larger street dual sport bikes. I have known guys that have done the heavy silicon deal around the bead of a tubeless tire on KLR's. A friend that knows says this is a very dangerous thing to do risking a sudden high speed air loss. Criswell Sent from my iPad

On Oct 4, 2014, at 9:38 AM, "landsail@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  The tubliss system uses a small diameter red tube at 100 to 110 psi using a new valve stem hole and a wheel sticker reminder to check pressure before each ride , especially if the bike has not been ridden daily.  Anoter reason I am getting the remote sensing system tht uses valve caps and a a keyfob that can be moved from bike to bike for my longer trips.  Anyway, with the spoke/rim sealing system that comes with this $100 system, one can then air up a tube type tire without a tube.  For dirt use, one can air down to very low air pressure if needed without fear of tube pinch, etc as the 100 to 110 psi keeps the tire sealed with the wheel.  Punctures can be fixed with a off-road or on-road tire plugger kit.  I carry a small air compressor instead of the CO2 cartridges on my bikes on trips longer that across town (10 mi in Reno/sparks).  No problems on my dual sport (NV is easy for that conversion) XR400R and even after long storage, the Tubliss inner tube has almost 100 psi and the tire has minimal leakdown.  Using nitrogen would be better, but home use equipment is still too pricey to use that, 78% nitrogen in air is what most of us use anyway.  I look forward to the Tubliss system for larger adv bike like the KLR 650.  Dur to tire width, heat of high speed use on highways, etc, Tubliss is taking their time developing this system or a modification of it and any encouragement to them will help them decide that there is a market for this product in larger bike tires beyond off-road bikes.  Meanwhile, I owe all more information on the NAPA tire bead sealer I use on some tubless landsailing wheels with tires designed for tubes that I do not use tubes in.I'll photograph the can label and detail it's adhesive properties.  Mark in No. Nevada.

[Martin Earl]

from ADV site talking about the KLX250http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25206264#post25206264 I don't know this guy, but appears he was near where I live. grin.Not to rain on his parade, but I ride my KLX250, 12psi F/R with rimlocks. shrug. revmaaatin. SNIPOn a different note, how about singing some praises of the KLX? On my recent trip to the Black Hills, I gained new respect for the hill climbing capability of this bike. Sure it doesn't have much power, but boy-oh-boy does it put it to the ground efficiently. FWIW I was running a Kenda Trakmaster II rear tire with Tubliss, at about 13.5 psi, and 13/47 gearing. Even without a lot of momentum - stopping on some hills even - I could get my KLX to continue up when others had lots of trouble breaking traction. Valve checks/adjustments. Prior to the trip, I checked my valves for the second time ever; they barely moved in the last 8500 miles or so. I have over 16,000 miles on the bike now. The first time I checked the valves was at 7407 miles, and at that time I had one exhaust valve that was just slightly out of spec on the tight side, so I adjusted all four to the loose end of spec. At this rate, I won't need to do another valve adjustement for a good long time. Not a KLX specific praise, but after 1 or 2 thousand miles with the Tubliss system front and rear, I can say I really, really like it. It holds pressure for weeks at a time in both the inner bladder and tire, so it's not really the constant maintenance item that it could be. The ability to drop tire pressure way down without fear of pinch flats it great; even at 12 psi in seriously rocky terrain, I didn't hear one rim-to-rock contact, where with standard tubes I would have heard the occasional rim strike even at 20+ psi. I got one flat rear on the trail due to a rock cut at the base of a knob; in truth, this particular cut wouldn't have caused a flat if I had an inner tube, but sticking a plug in the tire was so much quicker and easier than patching/swapping a tube. (I have lots of experience with all types of tire repair, and I consider myself very good at tube repairs). Also when I had that flat, I had absolutely no fear of spinning the tire and ripping the stem off the tube. The only real downside I see is that they take a lot of weight to balance.

On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 9:23 AM, Ron Criswell roncriswell2@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: I have been interested in the Tubliss system also....but realize they have to be very cautious because of legal issues concerning larger street dual sport bikes. I have known guys that have done the heavy silicon deal around the bead of a tubeless tire on KLR's. A friend that knows says this is a very dangerous thing to do risking a sudden high speed air loss. Criswell Sent from my iPad On Oct 4, 2014, at 9:38 AM, "landsail@... [DSN_KLR650]" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> wrote: The tubliss system uses a small diameter red tube at 100 to 110 psi using a new valve stem hole and a wheel sticker reminder to check pressure before each ride , especially if the bike has not been ridden daily. Anoter reason I am getting the remote sensing system tht uses valve caps and a a keyfob that can be moved from bike to bike for my longer trips. Anyway, with the spoke/rim sealing system that comes with this $100 system, one can then air up a tube type tire without a tube. For dirt use, one can air down to very low air pressure if needed without fear of tube pinch, etc as the 100 to 110 psi keeps the tire sealed with the wheel. Punctures can be fixed with a off-road or on-road tire plugger kit. I carry a small air compressor instead of the CO2 cartridges on my bikes on trips longer that across town (10 mi in Reno/sparks). No problems on my dual sport (NV is easy for that conversion) XR400R and even after long storage, the Tubliss inner tube has almost 100 psi and the tire has minimal leakdown. Using nitrogen would be better, but home use equipment is still too pricey to use that, 78% nitrogen in air is what most of us use anyway. I look forward to the Tubliss system for larger adv bike like the KLR 650. Dur to tire width, heat of high speed use on highways, etc, Tubliss is taking their time developing this system or a modification of it and any encouragement to them will help them decide that there is a market for this product in larger bike tires beyond off-road bikes. Meanwhile, I owe all more information on the NAPA tire bead sealer I use on some tubless landsailing wheels with tires designed for tubes that I do not use tubes in.I'll photograph the can label and detail it's adhesive properties. Mark in No. Nevada.

[John Biccum]

I put the tires in a black garbage bag and place that in the sun. Even the stiffest sidewall tires (e.g D06) can be spooned on without fuss after 10 mins or so in the solar heater. From: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 5:56 PM To: DSN KLR650; Norm Keller Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Tubeless tire update and Tubeliss insert system install Hi Norm, Not sure my story directly relates...but appreciate your research on the tubless. I followed the links and drank some of the kool-aid, and found the advertisement fascinating. Tire installation and de-installation is sometimes painful, and sometimes painless. The least painful experience (no tubeless experience to report) was after letting the tires sit in the sun, on the concrete for an hour in 90F heat. Both (new Kenda 270 tires) front and rear beads seated with a bicycle hand pump at 30psi. One of the worst experiences was with Dunlop 607 in the winter time; they did not have the flexibility of preheated beads, but were installed at about 60F ambient shop temp, but not cold soaked below 50F as they were riding in the back of the suburban. I have heard of some people soaking their tires in the hot bath water or placing the tires next to the furnace (winter installation) for an extended period of time to make the tire more flexible. revmaaatin.

On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 5:33 PM, 'Norm Keller' normkel32@... [DSN_KLR650] DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > wrote: Some may recall my conversion of both tires to tubeless (no tubes) and that we were unable to reseal the front tire beads using electric tire pump, small CO2 cartridge, cargo strap and some bad language. Nick took the front wheel to a local gas station and instantly sealed and seated the beads using their tire pump. A bot more leakage than the small pump/cartridge volume could overcome. The new Shinko front, after being mounted for a few days, will seal the beads with a large C02 cartridge and sometimes with the connect-the-two-tires-bridal. I've set the front tire sealing aside as just installed the Tubeliss system today and will see how that performs. It balanced out quite easily with only one ounce more weight than before. I will see how the balance holds up after the tire has a few miles (new Shinko). The bigger problem of sealing the rear tubeless tire beads remains so will play with that and report in case it is of interest. I suspect that a big CO2 will do that job also so will likely have to buy one. Has anyone suggestions? Had a long and very enjoyable conversation with Jeff (owner) of Tubeliss this morning. Some things I recall but should recognize that these are filtered by my impressions: They are exploring a 17" version but the delay has been because of the differences in wheel width used in the 17" range of wheels. The molds for the "inner tire" are very expensive to have produced so the motivation to at least break even has them looking very hard at this segment. Jeff also mentioned that they are exploring a new product which will offer improved performance but was (obviously) very circumspect as to what it would be. It seems that this might be more road and 17" attractive- my impression. He also mentioned that they are looking at producing their own tires which will allow them to design in many of the things they have learned in their research. Very, very interesting and enthusiastic guy who is also easily diverted to philosophy and psychology which was the subject of most of our conversation. FWIW, the install of the Tubeliss insert and tire was easy-peasy. ---------- ---------- ---------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[klrbugeater]

Hi Norm and Group, The standard advice at the Horizons Unlimited get togethers (and on their videos) is to always use a tube inside a tubeless wheel.    Always.    I presume that advice is for travellers who are not near urban centers where a rider can call a tow truck to tow them to a place with compressed high volume air to re-seat the tire bead (if the bead was broken from the wheel).  A roadside repair that patches a tube and then reflates the tube will seat the tire back on the wheel.  An unseated bead on a tubeless tire is not always (sometimes but not always) reinflated with a CO2 canister.  That would leave you stranded right where you are, unless you have some other RubeGoldberg.   That is why a re-patched tube is always advised.  It will seat a tire back on the wheel.  And you are free to continue your travels in Botswana, Malawi, Zimbabwe.    Or heaven forbid, aaaaaaaah!, Nicaragua.  That's a joke, I liked Nicaragua.  The Iguana and Armidillo I bought in the market needed slow cooking to soften it up, because a quick BBQ didn't do it.  It tasted like chewing a rubberband.  Ask Rev. Martin Earl.