mods

[Rick B]

I've got a 2003 that starts just fine when the engine is cold, but when it's warmed up it just won't start. For example start it up first thing in the morning and ride, no problem, stop for an hour, no problem, stop for 10 minutes and it just runs the battery down trying to start it. Come back an hour later and it starts right up. Anybody have any ideas as to what the problem is? Thanks, Rick

[Michael Martin]

Rick, Do you have a Clymer manual for your bike? If so, there's a troubleshooting procedure in chapter 2 that I recommend you go through. A short version would be as follows: Is the bike flooded when it's warm? If so, the carb float level is too high or the float is faulty. Is there a strong spark when you crank the engine? Remove the spark plug, connect it to its lead, and ground the body of the plug to the engine (making sure the body of the plug is grounded to avoid damaging the CDI unit). A spark tester is better than using the plug for this test. If the bike fails this test, there are a number of possible causes, including a fouled or improperly gapped plug, damaged/shorted spark plug lead and cap, loose connection in the ignition system, damaged coil, damaged ignition switch, dirty/shorted engine stop switch, damaged exciter coil or ignition pickup coil (check ignition timing), damaged CDI unit. Since your problem only occurs when the engine is fully warmed up, you can rule some of these possibilities out. But a faulty ignition electrical component often wil work well when cold but not when it is heated up. Chapter 9 gives procedures to check the components. Here's an example of a simple spark tester: http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-20610-Inline-Spark-Tester/dp/B0002STSC6 You may not be able to find a tester designed to connect directly to the KLR spark plug and lead, which are designed for use with the threaded plug terminal, so you will have to be a bit creative. You can use the tester when the engine is cold and compare the results to when it's hot. HTH, Mike Martin, Louisville, KY ________________________________ From: Rick B To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:26 PM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Hard to start when it's warmed up I've got a 2003 that starts just fine when the engine is cold, but when it's warmed up it just won't start. For example start it up first thing in the morning and ride, no problem, stop for an hour, no problem, stop for 10 minutes and it just runs the battery down trying to start it. Come back an hour later and it starts right up. Anybody have any ideas as to what the problem is? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jud]

1. Rich mixture? could be float or needle, or it could be an unseated start enricher piston. 2. Tight valve clearances? 3. Could be electrical too, but you can check the first two for free.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Rick B" wrote: > > I've got a 2003 that starts just fine when the engine is cold, but when it's warmed up it just won't start. For example start it up first thing in the morning and ride, no problem, stop for an hour, no problem, stop for 10 minutes and it just runs the battery down trying to start it. Come back an hour later and it starts right up. > > Anybody have any ideas as to what the problem is? > > Thanks, > Rick >

[dooden]

Tight Valves pops into my head. When is the last time you adjusted ? Dooden A15 Green Ape

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Rick B" wrote: > > I've got a 2003 that starts just fine when the engine is cold, but when it's warmed up it just won't start. For example start it up first thing in the morning and ride, no problem, stop for an hour, no problem, stop for 10 minutes and it just runs the battery down trying to start it. Come back an hour later and it starts right up. > > Anybody have any ideas as to what the problem is? > > Thanks, > Rick >

[Rick Brown]

Hi Group, I had take off for a couple of days, I just adjusted the valves, replaced the idler and tension spring and switched to a plug one heat range cooler. The first two made the bike run smoother, but still the starting problem. I do own an Clymer's and am starting to go thru Chapter 9 the electrical system since I keep thinking that any of the carburator problems would occur at either cold start or warm. However I will look-up what an enricher piston is and check that. I have used the clear plastic tubing method to chect the float bowl level and it appears okay. I do want to mention that I'm at 6000' but the bike starts fine cold so I haven't bothered to change the jets. However if this is wrong thinking, please let me know. I'll begin testing what I can later this week and will keep you posted. Also I might get lucky (in a way) and the weak part might fail altogether and become easier to spot. Thanks for all the help, Rick From: Michael Martin To: "DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Hard to start when it's warmed up Rick, Do you have a Clymer manual for your bike? If so, there's a troubleshooting procedure in chapter 2 that I recommend you go through. A short version would be as follows: Is the bike flooded when it's warm? If so, the carb float level is too high or the float is faulty. Is there a strong spark when you crank the engine? Remove the spark plug, connect it to its lead, and ground the body of the plug to the engine (making sure the body of the plug is grounded to avoid damaging the CDI unit). A spark tester is better than using the plug for this test. If the bike fails this test, there are a number of possible causes, including a fouled or improperly gapped plug, damaged/shorted spark plug lead and cap, loose connection in the ignition system, damaged coil, damaged ignition switch, dirty/shorted engine stop switch, damaged exciter coil or ignition pickup coil (check ignition timing), damaged CDI unit. Since your problem only occurs when the engine is fully warmed up, you can rule some of these possibilities out. But a faulty ignition electrical component often wil work well when cold but not when it is heated up. Chapter 9 gives procedures to check the components. Here's an example of a simple spark tester: http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-20610-Inline-Spark-Tester/dp/B0002STSC6 You may not be able to find a tester designed to connect directly to the KLR spark plug and lead, which are designed for use with the threaded plug terminal, so you will have to be a bit creative. You can use the tester when the engine is cold and compare the results to when it's hot. HTH, Mike Martin, Louisville, KY ________________________________ From: Rick B To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:26 PM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Hard to start when it's warmed up I've got a 2003 that starts just fine when the engine is cold, but when it's warmed up it just won't start. For example start it up first thing in the morning and ride, no problem, stop for an hour, no problem, stop for 10 minutes and it just runs the battery down trying to start it. Come back an hour later and it starts right up. Anybody have any ideas as to what the problem is? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Jud]

Follow your "choke" cable from the lever down to the LH side of the carburetor. Underneath the plastic nut, your cable runs to a brass piston that covers up an orifice in the float bowl. When you move the lever, the cable pulls up the piston to uncover the orifice, allowing extra fuel to flow into the intake tract. If the piston does not seat, your bike may start fine when cold, but refuse to start when warmed up. If the piston is not seating fully, there should be some slack between the cable sheath and the ferrule at one end or the other when the lever is in the run position. It may not be obvious, because the piston may be only slightly unseated; otherwise you would probably notice other symptoms of rich running. Take care not to break the (12mm?) plastic nut that holds the cable to the carb, Detach the lever from its handlebar perch to give some slack. If you have trouble getting in there with a wrench, you may want to rotate the carb, or better yet, remove it altogether. Once you have the piston out, inspect it for varnished fuel deposits, burrs or crud.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Rick Brown wrote: > > Hi Group, > > I had take off for a couple of days, > > I just adjusted the valves, replaced the idler and tension spring and switched to a plug one heat range cooler. The first two made the bike run smoother, but still the starting problem. > > I do own an Clymer's and am starting to go thru Chapter 9 the electrical system since I keep thinking that any of the carburator problems would occur at either cold start or warm. However I will look-up what an enricher piston is and check that. I have used the clear plastic tubing method to chect the float bowl level and it appears okay. > > I do want to mention that I'm at 6000' but the bike starts fine cold so I haven't bothered to change the jets. > > However if this is wrong thinking, please let me know. > > I'll begin testing what I can later this week and will keep you posted. Also I might get lucky (in a way) and the weak part might fail altogether and become easier to spot. > > Thanks for all the help, > Rick > > > > > > From: Michael Martin > To: "DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:07 PM > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Hard to start when it's warmed up > > > > > Rick, > > Do you have a Clymer manual for your bike? If so, there's a troubleshooting procedure in chapter 2 that I recommend you go through. > > A short version would be as follows: > > Is the bike flooded when it's warm? If so, the carb float level is too high or the float is faulty. > > Is there a strong spark when you crank the engine? Remove the spark plug, connect it to its lead, and ground the body of the plug to the engine (making sure the body of the plug is grounded to avoid damaging the CDI unit). A spark tester is better than using the plug for this test. If the bike fails this test, there are a number of possible causes, including a fouled or improperly gapped plug, damaged/shorted spark plug lead and cap, loose connection in the ignition system, damaged coil, damaged ignition switch, dirty/shorted engine stop switch, damaged exciter coil or ignition pickup coil (check ignition timing), damaged CDI unit. Since your problem only occurs when the engine is fully warmed up, you can rule some of these possibilities out. But a faulty ignition electrical component often wil work well when cold but not when it is heated up. Chapter 9 gives procedures to check the components. > > Here's an example of a simple spark tester: > > http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-20610-Inline-Spark-Tester/dp/B0002STSC6 > > You may not be able to find a tester designed to connect directly to the KLR spark plug and lead, which are designed for use with the threaded plug terminal, so you will have to be a bit creative. > > You can use the tester when the engine is cold and compare the results to when it's hot. > > HTH, > > Mike Martin, > Louisville, KY > > ________________________________ > From: Rick B > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:26 PM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Hard to start when it's warmed up > > > I've got a 2003 that starts just fine when the engine is cold, but when it's warmed up it just won't start. For example start it up first thing in the morning and ride, no problem, stop for an hour, no problem, stop for 10 minutes and it just runs the battery down trying to start it. Come back an hour later and it starts right up. > > Anybody have any ideas as to what the problem is? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

[Craig Kahler]

At 6,000', I would try the next size down main jet. Also turning in the pilot screw 1/2 turn may help. Craig From: Rick Brown To: Michael Martin ; "DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Hard to start when it's warmed up Hi Group, I had take off for a couple of days, I just adjusted the valves, replaced the idler and tension spring and switched to a plug one heat range cooler. The first two made the bike run smoother, but still the starting problem. I do own an Clymer's and am starting to go thru Chapter 9 the electrical system since I keep thinking that any of the carburator problems would occur at either cold start or warm. However I will look-up what an enricher piston is and check that. I have used the clear plastic tubing method to chect the float bowl level and it appears okay. I do want to mention that I'm at 6000' but the bike starts fine cold so I haven't bothered to change the jets. However if this is wrong thinking, please let me know. I'll begin testing what I can later this week and will keep you posted. Also I might get lucky (in a way) and the weak part might fail altogether and become easier to spot. Thanks for all the help, Rick From: Michael Martin To: "DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Hard to start when it's warmed up Rick, Do you have a Clymer manual for your bike? If so, there's a troubleshooting procedure in chapter 2 that I recommend you go through. A short version would be as follows: Is the bike flooded when it's warm? If so, the carb float level is too high or the float is faulty. Is there a strong spark when you crank the engine? Remove the spark plug, connect it to its lead, and ground the body of the plug to the engine (making sure the body of the plug is grounded to avoid damaging the CDI unit). A spark tester is better than using the plug for this test. If the bike fails this test, there are a number of possible causes, including a fouled or improperly gapped plug, damaged/shorted spark plug lead and cap, loose connection in the ignition system, damaged coil, damaged ignition switch, dirty/shorted engine stop switch, damaged exciter coil or ignition pickup coil (check ignition timing), damaged CDI unit. Since your problem only occurs when the engine is fully warmed up, you can rule some of these possibilities out. But a faulty ignition electrical component often wil work well when cold but not when it is heated up. Chapter 9 gives procedures to check the components. Here's an example of a simple spark tester: http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-20610-Inline-Spark-Tester/dp/B0002STSC6 You may not be able to find a tester designed to connect directly to the KLR spark plug and lead, which are designed for use with the threaded plug terminal, so you will have to be a bit creative. You can use the tester when the engine is cold and compare the results to when it's hot. HTH, Mike Martin, Louisville, KY ________________________________ From: Rick B To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:26 PM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Hard to start when it's warmed up I've got a 2003 that starts just fine when the engine is cold, but when it's warmed up it just won't start. For example start it up first thing in the morning and ride, no problem, stop for an hour, no problem, stop for 10 minutes and it just runs the battery down trying to start it. Come back an hour later and it starts right up. Anybody have any ideas as to what the problem is? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Rick B]

Hi Group, We're back in the showers every afternoon-thru-evening mode so I haven't been able to test your suggestions. Meanwhile I'm going over the carburator chapter in the Clymer's and the KLR manual so I'm familiar with what your explaining to me. All of them sound good to me and I'm going to give them a try ASAP. Thanks, Rick

[Rick Brown]

Hi Jud, John and Craig, Thanks for the help. I copied Jud's response and took it out to the bike and after reviewing it and trying the throttle solution I decided to remove the carb. 1. Dis-assembled and cleaned the carb as/ Clymer instructions 2. Main jet #148 3. Pilot jet #40 4. Drilled out the pilot mixture screw w/ 1/8" bit then screwed in a sheetmetal screw and pulled the plug 5. counted the turns to remove the screw, but must've lost count so I screwed it in to just barely seat and then out 1 - 1/2 turns - seems to start/run okay @ 6000' but if I need to change that let me know 6. Checked float level 7. Diaphragms okay 8. Adjusted Choke cable. I think the bike starts better and marginaly runs smoother, keeping in mind it has 25,000+ miles on it. I'll know more in the next few days of riding. Since I worked on so many components I would only be able to guess what was the key to the repair. I believe the problem stemmed from a worn plastic plunger cap that was allowing the choke cable to slide in and out of the cap because the rim is too worn to lock the cable securely and the boot looked like it had worked loose. I've got a temporary fix on it and will replace the parts when the new ones arrive. Since the bike was having trouble starting the battery wasn't getting properly charged and that exacerbated the problem, I'm looking at a repalcement battery and at the same time charging and testing the existing. I'm not going to change the jets at this time since my research so far indicates it is less of a problem to be too rich at high altitude than too lean at low altitude. If performance becomes more of an isusse than I'll re-jett. I hope by letting you know the results it might be as helpful to somebody else as your advice was for me. Thanks again, just that much closer to my road trip:) Rick From: Jud To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 8:17 PM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Hard to start when it's warmed up Follow your "choke" cable from the lever down to the LH side of the carburetor. Underneath the plastic nut, your cable runs to a brass piston that covers up an orifice in the float bowl. When you move the lever, the cable pulls up the piston to uncover the orifice, allowing extra fuel to flow into the intake tract. If the piston does not seat, your bike may start fine when cold, but refuse to start when warmed up. If the piston is not seating fully, there should be some slack between the cable sheath and the ferrule at one end or the other when the lever is in the run position. It may not be obvious, because the piston may be only slightly unseated; otherwise you would probably notice other symptoms of rich running. Take care not to break the (12mm?) plastic nut that holds the cable to the carb, Detach the lever from its handlebar perch to give some slack. If you have trouble getting in there with a wrench, you may want to rotate the carb, or better yet, remove it altogether. Once you have the piston out, inspect it for varnished fuel deposits, burrs or crud.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, Rick Brown wrote: > > Hi Group, > > I had take off for a couple of days, > > I just adjusted the valves, replaced the idler and tension spring and switched to a plug one heat range cooler. The first two made the bike run smoother, but still the starting problem. > > I do own an Clymer's and am starting to go thru Chapter 9 the electrical system since I keep thinking that any of the carburator problems would occur at either cold start or warm. However I will look-up what an enricher piston is and check that. I have used the clear plastic tubing method to chect the float bowl level and it appears okay. > > I do want to mention that I'm at 6000' but the bike starts fine cold so I haven't bothered to change the jets. > > However if this is wrong thinking, please let me know. > > I'll begin testing what I can later this week and will keep you posted. Also I might get lucky (in a way) and the weak part might fail altogether and become easier to spot. > > Thanks for all the help, > Rick > > > > > > From: Michael Martin > To: "DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:07 PM > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Hard to start when it's warmed up > > > > > Rick, > > Do you have a Clymer manual for your bike? If so, there's a troubleshooting procedure in chapter 2 that I recommend you go through. > > A short version would be as follows: > > Is the bike flooded when it's warm? If so, the carb float level is too high or the float is faulty. > > Is there a strong spark when you crank the engine? Remove the spark plug, connect it to its lead, and ground the body of the plug to the engine (making sure the body of the plug is grounded to avoid damaging the CDI unit). A spark tester is better than using the plug for this test. If the bike fails this test, there are a number of possible causes, including a fouled or improperly gapped plug, damaged/shorted spark plug lead and cap, loose connection in the ignition system, damaged coil, damaged ignition switch, dirty/shorted engine stop switch, damaged exciter coil or ignition pickup coil (check ignition timing), damaged CDI unit. Since your problem only occurs when the engine is fully warmed up, you can rule some of these possibilities out. But a faulty ignition electrical component often wil work well when cold but not when it is heated up. Chapter 9 gives procedures to check the components. > > Here's an example of a simple spark tester: > > http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-20610-Inline-Spark-Tester/dp/B0002STSC6 > > You may not be able to find a tester designed to connect directly to the KLR spark plug and lead, which are designed for use with the threaded plug terminal, so you will have to be a bit creative. > > You can use the tester when the engine is cold and compare the results to when it's hot. > > HTH, > > Mike Martin, > Louisville, KY > > ________________________________ > From: Rick B > To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 7:26 PM > Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Hard to start when it's warmed up > > > I've got a 2003 that starts just fine when the engine is cold, but when it's warmed up it just won't start. For example start it up first thing in the morning and ride, no problem, stop for an hour, no problem, stop for 10 minutes and it just runs the battery down trying to start it. Come back an hour later and it starts right up. > > Anybody have any ideas as to what the problem is? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[revmaaatin]

I was telling my 'dealer' how pleased I was with the KLX300 that I ride. "Its a dog!, he exclaimed. "It was never competitive as a race bike." I just smiled. "Really? It goes faster than I want to fall down...." Ended the conversation. and the KLR? It ain't no race bike either; but I have noticed, it also goes faster than I want to fall down as well. revmaaatin.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Magen" wrote: > > Re: Mods > Posted by: "Jeff Khoury" jeff@... DsrtEgl > > You don't buy a KLR if you want tons of power. There are other bikes for > that. > You buy a KLR for durability, versatility and simplicity. > > > Goes fast enough to KILL YOU . . . and THAT's 'fast enough' !! > > Ron Magen > 'Been there, Done that; got the DD214 to prove it' > > > _______________________________________ > No infections found in this outgoing message > Scanned by iolo System Shield > http://www.iolo.com >