nklr -- black hills national forest new travel management rules

[Tim Nielsen]

OK, I'm getting ready to invest in some camping gear, and would love to hear opinions on the following: 1) Tents. Have to be 6 lbs and under, so a backpacking tent. I've heard good things about the Eureka Apex (but also heard from Moose that he hear they weren't very waterproof). Also Moose recommended the Kelty Vortex. There seems to be so many tents... 2) Sleeping bags. I suppose down to 30 to be safe. Has to compact small, and would prefer synthetic insulation, like Qualofil or Polarwhateveritscalled. 3) Sleeping pad. OK, I bought a Therm-a-Rest Expedition, 1.75" thick, and for me it's not so comfortable. I'm a big guy, and it just doesn't have the support. So now I'm thinking an inflatable kind, looking for something light and comfy. Any thoughts? I found a 4" self-inflating one, like a Therm, but another company, but it's $160. Yikes. And what the heck, anything else camping related that you've found invaluable, love to hear about it. Reply on list or off. Tim

[MotorMark]

Go to Wal-Mart.. Spend the money you save on beer..

----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Nielsen" To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2004 1:04 AM Subject: [DSN_klr650] Camping Gear > OK, I'm getting ready to invest in some camping gear, and would love to > hear opinions on the following: > > 1) Tents. Have to be 6 lbs and under, so a backpacking tent. I've heard > good things about the Eureka Apex (but also heard from Moose that he > hear they weren't very waterproof). Also Moose recommended the Kelty > Vortex. There seems to be so many tents... > > 2) Sleeping bags. I suppose down to 30 to be safe. Has to compact > small, and would prefer synthetic insulation, like Qualofil or > Polarwhateveritscalled. > > 3) Sleeping pad. OK, I bought a Therm-a-Rest Expedition, 1.75" thick, > and for me it's not so comfortable. I'm a big guy, and it just doesn't > have the support. So now I'm thinking an inflatable kind, looking for > something light and comfy. Any thoughts? I found a 4" self-inflating > one, like a Therm, but another company, but it's $160. Yikes. > > And what the heck, anything else camping related that you've found > invaluable, love to hear about it. > > Reply on list or off. > > Tim >

[Keith Saltzer]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Tim Nielsen wrote:

> OK, I'm getting ready to invest in some camping gear, and would

love to

> hear opinions on the following: > > 1) Tents. Have to be 6 lbs and under, so a backpacking tent. I've

heard

> good things about the Eureka Apex (but also heard from Moose that

he

> hear they weren't very waterproof). Also Moose recommended the

Kelty

> Vortex. There seems to be so many tents... > > 2) Sleeping bags. I suppose down to 30 to be safe. Has to compact > small, and would prefer synthetic insulation, like Qualofil or > Polarwhateveritscalled. > > 3) Sleeping pad. OK, I bought a Therm-a-Rest Expedition, 1.75"

thick,

> and for me it's not so comfortable. I'm a big guy, and it just

doesn't

> have the support. So now I'm thinking an inflatable kind, looking

for

> something light and comfy. Any thoughts? I found a 4" self-

inflating

> one, like a Therm, but another company, but it's $160. Yikes. > > And what the heck, anything else camping related that you've found > invaluable, love to hear about it. > > Reply on list or off. > > Tim

I spent ALOT of time researching my gear before I bought it. I had discovered very quickly that there are so many choices for everything that it was mind boggling. But some things that I did that made my choices very good ones in the end were: Know what you want out of each piece of gear. Take my sleeping bag for instance. After reading some reviews, and thinking about how I like to sleep, I realized that I HAVE to be able to move around in the bag, so I needed a big bag. I also wanted down because it compresses so well and is lighter. I also wanted it to be rated at no lower than 20 degrees or so because I am such a warm sleeper. I knew what I wanted out of a bag and thats what I searched for. It helped me to narrow down my choices very quickly. Try the stuff out. For instance I went to REI in comfortable clothes and got IN the sleeping bag, and laid on the Thermarest. And not just for 30 seconds either. I got in that sucker and moved all around, pushed/pulled the zippers, tried stuffing it in the sack etc etc. I was in the store for almost an hour just looking at one bag and pad, but it turned out to be just right and I bought it. Read EVERYTHING online that you can. I read tons of reviews on all kinds of things and then I would compare them against each other. Then I would try to get the specs on the gear and learn up on them and compare those too. I would also talk to the people that use the stuff alot. I asked lots of questions. It was alot of work, but I'll tell you what, I am WAY happy with my gear. Hope this helps a bit. MrMoose A8 (Barbie and Ken special)

[Hookstr]

From: Tim Nielsen Subject: Camping Gear Check out your local Costco store, or online at Costco.com. Also the REI outlet at: http://www.rei.com/outlet/index.html This is where the REI, after having a reality check, sells its overpriced inventory at a real world prices. Get a multi-fuel hiking/backpacking stove. MSR probably makes the best, though there are now others that are equal. If you buy one that uses unleaded motor fuel, you can just refuel it from the KLR.

[Richard McNamara]

You'll get lots of good specific recommendations from this list, so I'll keep my comments general: Tent: Get the best you can afford. Small packed size is much less important than how comfortable it is to be trapped inside it with all your gear when an ice cold rain decends on you along the Cassiar somewhere. You should have enough headroom to sit comfortably upright and change into/out of bulky riding gear. Sleeping bags: Even the cheapest bags are better now than what I started out with 25 years ago. I avoid down because it loses its insulating value when wet. I use a light roomy bag with a comfort rating of about 45 deg. and add warmth when needed by sleeping in polypropilene long johns and a fleece beany. I may look dorky, but I am seriously warm down to the wee small numbers and I don't have a heavy bag to deal with. Remember, you can add layers to get warm on cold nights but you can only get so naked on hot nights if you are stuck with a warmer bag. Sleeping pad: I use the basic Thermarest, so the ground is the support. Guess I can't help with that one. Trying the stuff out is a great suggestion as is a multi-fuel stove that you can refill from the tank on the bike. Rich McNamara

[Mike Torst]

Camping Gear - I went through the research last year. I ended up using Ebay to get my 2-man Quik tent ( out of production, but some old stock is still available - sets up in under 1 minute) and the most important addition other my sleeping bags was a sleeping cot. The self inflating sleeping pads were near useless for my 220 pound 6'2" frame. A riding bud had brought along a tent-floor safe cot to Death Valley Days 2004 and I tried it out. Fantastic! SO, back to the web and a quick purchase of the cot was made ( about $20 ). It allows my body to stay off the ground in comfort, provides a bit of storage space under it when in use, and is so comfortable I took it along for the sleep overs during my recent 5 day trip to Laguna Seca last week. Oh, and my cheapie weighs about 4 pounds. One of many vendors - http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=74 40&memberId=12500226 Mike Torst Las Vegas -----Original Message----- From: Keith Saltzer [mailto:k.saltzer@...] Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 10:48 PM To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSN_klr650] Re: Camping Gear

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Tim Nielsen wrote: > OK, I'm getting ready to invest in some camping gear, and would love to > hear opinions on the following: > > 1) Tents. Have to be 6 lbs and under, so a backpacking tent. I've heard > good things about the Eureka Apex (but also heard from Moose that he > hear they weren't very waterproof). Also Moose recommended the Kelty > Vortex. There seems to be so many tents... > > 2) Sleeping bags. I suppose down to 30 to be safe. Has to compact > small, and would prefer synthetic insulation, like Qualofil or > Polarwhateveritscalled. > > 3) Sleeping pad. OK, I bought a Therm-a-Rest Expedition, 1.75" thick, > and for me it's not so comfortable. I'm a big guy, and it just doesn't > have the support. So now I'm thinking an inflatable kind, looking for > something light and comfy. Any thoughts? I found a 4" self- inflating > one, like a Therm, but another company, but it's $160. Yikes. > > And what the heck, anything else camping related that you've found > invaluable, love to hear about it. > > Reply on list or off. > > Tim

[The Mule]

> 1) Tents. Have to be 6 lbs and under, so a backpacking tent. I've heard > good things about the Eureka Apex (but also heard from Moose that he > hear they weren't very waterproof). Also Moose recommended the Kelty > Vortex. There seems to be so many tents...

.......Mule agrees with Moose on the Kelty V-series. I use a V-3 solo for economy, simplicity, and roominess on soft core trips. For extreme lightweight ruggedness, I use a Mountain Gear Thru-Hiker. Both purchased from Campmor.

> 2) Sleeping bags. I suppose down to 30 to be safe. Has to compact > small, and would prefer synthetic insulation, like Qualofil or > Polarwhateveritscalled.

...........In this category, rated at 35, I use a North Face Flight 3D. It's 2lb. 4oz., and stuffs into a 6x11 sack.

> 3) Sleeping pad. OK, I bought a Therm-a-Rest Expedition, 1.75" thick, > and for me it's not so comfortable. I'm a big guy, and it just doesn't > have the support. So now I'm thinking an inflatable kind, looking for > something light and comfy. Any thoughts? I found a 4" self-inflating > one, like a Therm, but another company, but it's $160. Yikes.

.........Looking to go light and tight, getting too luxurious with the pads can blow the whole plan. Pads are as much for insulating your body from the ground as for cushioning. I've used a Therm-a-Rest Expedition for years with no complaints. If you need more support, you're gonna have to pay for it in size/weight.

> And what the heck, anything else camping related that you've found > invaluable, love to hear about it.

.........Fire sticks, magnesium firestarter, MSR stove, headlamp (Black Diamond or Petzl), Camelbak (or Platypus), Sierra cup, gloves, candle lantern. Steve The Mule A17

[The Mule]

>For extreme > lightweight ruggedness, I use a Mountain Gear Thru-Hiker.

.........umm.......that's Mountain Hardwear, not Mountain Gear....

[Eric Lee Green]

Tim Nielsen wrote:

>1) Tents. Have to be 6 lbs and under, so a backpacking tent. I've heard >good things about the Eureka Apex (but also heard from Moose that he >hear they weren't very waterproof). >

If you want a Eureka Aurora 2 I have one for sale for cheap. It's basically the now-discontinued one-door version of the Eureka Apex. I used it for a couple of backpacking trips and decided it was heavier than I wanted to haul around, so I got a Eureka EXO, which is a lighter single-wall tent (the Aurora is a double-wall tent i.e. tent+fly). It's about 6lb, sets up easily, can get a bit stuffy in hot weather even if you pitch the fly high to catch the wind but then in hot weather you just toss your ground sheet, sleeping pad, and bag onto the open ground so you can watch the sky, right? As noted elsewhere, probably not a good tent if you're going to be going in and out in the rain, because the vestibule door when opened allows rain to fall directly into the tent. I used it for wind and bug protection, mostly. Also flexes alarmingly in high winds, but I pitched it once on top of a windy mesa in Arizona and all it did was flex even in the strongest gusts, so I didn't bother going out and guying out the fly to stop it. The fly does have places to attach twine to guy it out if you're pitching it in a high wind area. Now, personally, I believe that rainy weather is why they invented hotels, and will go to extremes to avoid sleeping outdoors in the rain. But that's me :-}. If you're going to be camping in Oregon rather than Arizona, you probably want a tent that's better in the rain, one that has a lip or gutter over the door to keep rain from falling into the tent when you exit the tent in order to take a leak.

>Also Moose recommended the Kelty >Vortex. There seems to be so many tents... > >

The Vortex is a good tent. Try http://www.gearreview.com and http://www.outdoorreview.com for some gear reviews. It's more expensive and not as roomy as Eureka's dome tents, but you get what you pay for, sometimes.

>2) Sleeping bags. I suppose down to 30 to be safe. Has to compact >small, and would prefer synthetic insulation, like Qualofil or >Polarwhateveritscalled. > >

Go to your local camping supply store and try out sleeping bags. A sleeping bag has to be shaped right for you and the way you sleep, otherwise you'll be miserable. Also make sure it has a good hood. I have a fairly cheap sleeping bag (well, cheap by camping gear standards) and when I yank the drawstring for the hood, all that shows above the bag is my nose. It's amazing how much warmer a good hood makes a sleeping bag feel. Finally, note that the degree rating on these things is science fiction. Mine is supposedly a "+25" sleeping bag. In reality, in anything below 40 degrees, I have to pile on clothes.

>3) Sleeping pad. OK, I bought a Therm-a-Rest Expedition, 1.75" thick, >and for me it's not so comfortable. I'm a big guy, and it just doesn't >have the support. >

Did you give it a few puffs of air to firm it up? While supposedly "self-inflating", I've never had a Therm-a-Rest that actually did adequately self-inflate. I have two Therm-a-Rests, one's a 1.5" thick full length "regular", one's a 1" thick 3/4 length "backpacking" mattress. Strangely enough, the thinner/shorter mattress sleeps better. (Or maybe it's just that I'm more tired when I'm using it!). I think it may be that it's easier for me to puff a few extra puffs of air into the thinner mattress in order to firm it up. (BTW, anybody want to buy a 1.5" regular Therm-a-Rest? Used only for car camping, in perfect condition, I just have *WAY* too much camping gear).

>So now I'm thinking an inflatable kind, looking for >something light and comfy. Any thoughts? I found a 4" self-inflating >one, like a Therm, but another company, but it's $160. Yikes. > >

I don't think you'll find something light and comfy. You may want to go to your local Wal-Mart, tho, if you want something bulky and heavy but maybe comfy. They have a pump-inflated mattress there. You'll have to look at it yourself and decide whether you want to spend the $30 or so to bring it home and try it out.

>And what the heck, anything else camping related that you've found >invaluable, love to hear about it. > >

Motorcycle camping is a bit different from backpacking or car camping. You're worried more about bulk than about weight. Some thoughts: 1) On a cool day, a cup of hot chocolate perks you right up. Someone mentioned a multi-fuel stove. These must be primed (which will singe your hair if you're not careful!) and are not the easiest things in the world to use. Another thing to bear in mind is that they clog fairly rapidly when used with unleaded gas (which is a fairly dirty fuel, typically blended with a lot of additives) and really prefer to use white gas/naptha. The "standard" here is the MSR Whisperlite Internationale. This is a quirky, easily-clogged stove that has only the advantage that parts for it are available world-wide and anybody else you meet up with likely has one. It's hard to say why they call it a "Whisperlite" because it basically just has one setting -- full roar, sounding like a jet at idle. Don't try simmering with this guy! Optimus makes a better stove, the Nova, which is what the MSR wants to be when it grows up -- it simmers, it's easier to set up and use than the Whisperlite, and its top is less slippery/holds the pot better than those $#%@ wire legs on the Whisperlite. Optimus gear isn't available in as many places within the U.S. as MSR gear, but if you're travelling overseas is likely to be as available as MSR gear. Primus also makes a good multi-fuel stove, the Himalaya, which can even be attached to propane or isobutane canisters if you want as well as burning white gas or unleaded. Primus stoves were for many years the "standard" worldwide, and in most places still are. (Not in the U.S., due to REI/MSR's marketing clout here, but...). Bottom line: 2) Water: This is an important subject. You need to rinse out your cup after pouring hot water over your hot chocolate mix and sipping it down, after all. Canteens and jugs are now as obsolete as the dodo-bird. The best way to carry water is in bladders or pouches. A 4 liter bladder takes up much less space than a 4l jug because it is flat and flexible and will pack around other things (just make sure the other things are protected by a plastic bag so they don't get wet if the bladder leaks!). They also don't slosh and throw off your center of gravity, since there's no empty space in them (assuming you pressed the air out when you filled them). You want to carry enough water to a) cook with, b) drink, and c) clean up with (both yourself and your cooking gear or dishes). Water is heavy but not bulky, thus feel free to carry more water than you think you'll need. 'Nuff for now... -E

[rd_nielsen]

--- In DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com, Tim Nielsen wrote:

> OK, I'm getting ready to invest in some camping gear, and would love to > hear opinions on the following: > > 1) Tents. Have to be 6 lbs and under, so a backpacking tent. I've heard > good things about the Eureka Apex (but also heard from Moose that he > hear they weren't very waterproof). Also Moose recommended the Kelty > Vortex. There seems to be so many tents...

I recommend the Walrus Rapeede XV for a small and light two-person tent. For the ultimate in light weight get a nylon mesh hammock with a coated nylon tarp, and dispense with both the tent and the sleeping pad. It takes me 2-3 nights to get accustomed to sleeping in a hammock, so if you're just out for a weekend this isn't the best solution. Dreas