black river stages - rallymoto event in upstate ny this weekend

[nicholsm4]

I have continued to have fuel problems, won't idle without choke, with my 2009. The bike can sit for just one week and it occurs. Called the local dealer and they are seeing the same problem in other Kawasaki M/C's the KLR and Ninja 250 in particular. The dealer believes it may be caused by ethanol in the fuel. I have reviewed the solutions on this site - drain the carb, sea foam, run the carb dry. But I don't see these as solutions, just band aids. Anyone have any other ideas?

[stevedyer@cox.net]

If ethanol in the gasoline is the problem and you want a solution that addresses the core issue, then run non-ethanol gasoline. Steve ---- nicholsm4 wrote: I have continued to have fuel problems, won't idle without choke, with my 2009. The bike can sit for just one week and it occurs. Called the local dealer and they are seeing the same problem in other Kawasaki M/C's the KLR and Ninja 250 in particular. The dealer believes it may be caused by ethanol in the fuel. I have reviewed the solutions on this site - drain the carb, sea foam, run the carb dry. But I don't see these as solutions, just band aids. Anyone have any other ideas?

[Jeff Khoury]

As a self-proclaimed carburetor dude, I can tell you 100% that ethanol is not the problem. It is the other additives that they put in the fuel, mainly for emissions purposes that leaves a varnish on your carb parts. I've cleaned that varnish off a lot of jets. Your Pilot circuit is clogged. I could go into a lengthy explanation as to why it is clogged, but you said you've read it all already. If a bike will run with the enrichener (choke) on, but promptly dies when you take it off, that is the case. At that point, no amount of Sea Foam or other additive will clear it up, because no fuel (and additive, by extension) can flow through the clogged area to clean it. Your only solution is to clean or replace your pilot jet. Clean, as in remove it and clean it. Most of the time, you'll have to physically open the hole again. Once that is done, the preventative maintenance will keep it from happening again. The problem is that it has been partially clogged for a long time and you're trying to fix it with preventative measures. You have to FIX it, then run your PMS. http://www.dsrtegl.com/2009/07/care-and-feeding-of-your-carbureted.html The reason the dealer sees a lot of this is that the models you mentioned are carbureted, wherein most newer bikes have FI. FI'd bikes are not subject to the evaporation that Carb'd bikes are, and the EPA is requiring more non-volitile additives all the time. Ethanol, when it evaporates leaves no residue behind. Ethanol is not the problem. Ethanol can disintegrate crappy rubber parts, but that's not the problem we have here. You have a varnish problem, but nothing a couple of hours and a can of carb cleaner won't cure. -Jeff Khoury Astatic Solutions, LLC.

----- Original Message ----- From: "nicholsm4" To: "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:54:40 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [DSN_KLR650] 2009 Fuel Problems I have continued to have fuel problems, won't idle without choke, with my 2009. The bike can sit for just one week and it occurs. Called the local dealer and they are seeing the same problem in other Kawasaki M/C's the KLR and Ninja 250 in particular. The dealer believes it may be caused by ethanol in the fuel. I have reviewed the solutions on this site - drain the carb, sea foam, run the carb dry. But I don't see these as solutions, just band aids. Anyone have any other ideas? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Charles]

Jeff, I just got my 2009 last week. I have no problems so far, of course. Im going to read the link you provided, of course, but a quick question: should I stay away from ethanol? I live in the boonies, and we have only 3 gas stations local. I think they all sell ethanol blends.... Chuck F. NE PA

On Sep 15, 2009, at 15:20, Jeff Khoury wrote: > As a self-proclaimed carburetor dude, I can tell you 100% that > ethanol is not the problem. It is the other additives that they put > in the fuel, mainly for emissions purposes that leaves a varnish on > your carb parts. I've cleaned that varnish off a lot of jets. > > Your Pilot circuit is clogged. I could go into a lengthy explanation > as to why it is clogged, but you said you've read it all already. > > If a bike will run with the enrichener (choke) on, but promptly dies > when you take it off, that is the case. At that point, no amount of > Sea Foam or other additive will clear it up, because no fuel (and > additive, by extension) can flow through the clogged area to clean it. > > Your only solution is to clean or replace your pilot jet. Clean, as > in remove it and clean it. Most of the time, you'll have to > physically open the hole again. > > Once that is done, the preventative maintenance will keep it from > happening again. The problem is that it has been partially clogged > for a long time and you're trying to fix it with preventative > measures. You have to FIX it, then run your PMS. > > http://www.dsrtegl.com/2009/07/care-and-feeding-of-your- > carbureted.html > > The reason the dealer sees a lot of this is that the models you > mentioned are carbureted, wherein most newer bikes have FI. FI'd > bikes are not subject to the evaporation that Carb'd bikes are, and > the EPA is requiring more non-volitile additives all the time. > > Ethanol, when it evaporates leaves no residue behind. Ethanol is not > the problem. Ethanol can disintegrate crappy rubber parts, but > that's not the problem we have here. You have a varnish problem, but > nothing a couple of hours and a can of carb cleaner won't cure. > > > > -Jeff Khoury >

[Jeff Khoury]

I don't have any problems running ethanol-containing gas in my KLR. Ethanol has two major drawbacks: * It will deteriorate rubber that is not rated to carry it. and * It will make your engine run a little hotter. I believe all of the rubber in the KLR can handle ethanol. I've had no problems with it. My bike does not run overly hot, so I don't think that's a concern either. As I've said on previous posts, it boils down to the other additives in the gas, such as here in California, that cause the problems. In my spare time I run a backyard MC repair service and well over half my work is carb cleaning (for that very reason). But hey, I'm not complaining... it makes me good money. Cheers! -Jeff Khoury

----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles" To: "Jeff Khoury" Cc: "nicholsm4" , "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:35:35 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] 2009 Fuel Problems Jeff, I just got my 2009 last week. I have no problems so far, of course. Im going to read the link you provided, of course, but a quick question: should I stay away from ethanol? I live in the boonies, and we have only 3 gas stations local. I think they all sell ethanol blends.... Chuck F. NE PA On Sep 15, 2009, at 15:20, Jeff Khoury wrote: > As a self-proclaimed carburetor dude, I can tell you 100% that > ethanol is not the problem. It is the other additives that they put > in the fuel, mainly for emissions purposes that leaves a varnish on > your carb parts. I've cleaned that varnish off a lot of jets. > > Your Pilot circuit is clogged. I could go into a lengthy explanation > as to why it is clogged, but you said you've read it all already. > > If a bike will run with the enrichener (choke) on, but promptly dies > when you take it off, that is the case. At that point, no amount of > Sea Foam or other additive will clear it up, because no fuel (and > additive, by extension) can flow through the clogged area to clean it. > > Your only solution is to clean or replace your pilot jet. Clean, as > in remove it and clean it. Most of the time, you'll have to > physically open the hole again. > > Once that is done, the preventative maintenance will keep it from > happening again. The problem is that it has been partially clogged > for a long time and you're trying to fix it with preventative > measures. You have to FIX it, then run your PMS. > > http://www.dsrtegl.com/2009/07/care-and-feeding-of-your- > carbureted.html > > The reason the dealer sees a lot of this is that the models you > mentioned are carbureted, wherein most newer bikes have FI. FI'd > bikes are not subject to the evaporation that Carb'd bikes are, and > the EPA is requiring more non-volitile additives all the time. > > Ethanol, when it evaporates leaves no residue behind. Ethanol is not > the problem. Ethanol can disintegrate crappy rubber parts, but > that's not the problem we have here. You have a varnish problem, but > nothing a couple of hours and a can of carb cleaner won't cure. > > > > -Jeff Khoury >

[judjonzz]

I suspect modern fuels as well, but it is not a universal problem. My carbs never seem to get gummed up, at least on the bikes I am riding fairly regularly. My KLR, my DR, my DRZ, never seem to gum up no matter how long they sit. Friends in the area are always suffering from gummed pilot jets. One buddy is constantly having to strip and clean the carbs on his KLR and DRZ. He lives about 45 miles from here, so maybe there is a problem with his immediate fuel supply. We ride a lot of the same places, and I gas up in his town fairly often, so I can't say for sure that is the problem, but I am at a loss for other ideas. In any case, he is getting lots of practice, while my carbs have never been off the bike. If they ever do, I'm calling him, 'cause he's the expert.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "nicholsm4" wrote: > > I have continued to have fuel problems, won't idle without choke, with my 2009. The bike can sit for just one week and it occurs. Called the local dealer and they are seeing the same problem in other Kawasaki M/C's the KLR and Ninja 250 in particular. The dealer believes it may be caused by ethanol in the fuel. I have reviewed the solutions on this site - drain the carb, sea foam, run the carb dry. But I don't see these as solutions, just band aids. Anyone have any other ideas? >

[judjonzz]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "judjonzz" wrote:

> > I suspect modern fuels as well, but it is not a universal problem. My carbs never seem to get gummed up, at least on the bikes I am riding fairly regularly. My KLR, my DR, my DRZ, never seem to gum up no matter how long they sit. Friends in the area are always suffering from gummed pilot jets. > > One buddy is constantly having to strip and clean the carbs on his KLR and DRZ. He lives about 45 miles from here, so maybe there is a problem with his immediate fuel supply. We ride a lot of the same places, and I gas up in his town fairly often, so I can't say for sure that is the problem, but I am at a loss for other ideas. In any case, he is getting lots of practice, while my CARB HAS never been off the bike. If IT EVER IS, I'm calling him, 'cause he's the expert. >

Fixed.

[davharv]

I'll put my bit in, I had the same trouble earlier this summer, it rained a lot in Maine this year, I'm thinking it's something to do with the ethanol abzording water out of the air mixing with the fuel and breaking it down, How to fix, drain the tank, the bit on the right side gets a bit nasty, clean the carb, then clean it again to make sure, don't let fuel sit very long, so ride more, and once in a while open her up and feed all the ponies. I will put mine up this winter with a dry tank for the first time in it's 12 year life, and hope for the best, if not I can clean the carb in 15 minutes now, I learned the knack

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "nicholsm4" wrote: > > I have continued to have fuel problems, won't idle without choke, with my 2009. The bike can sit for just one week and it occurs. Called the local dealer and they are seeing the same problem in other Kawasaki M/C's the KLR and Ninja 250 in particular. The dealer believes it may be caused by ethanol in the fuel. I have reviewed the solutions on this site - drain the carb, sea foam, run the carb dry. But I don't see these as solutions, just band aids. Anyone have any other ideas? >

[dooden]

Hey Jud... If he is always taking his off to repair... Maybe he is not an expert.... Just a random thought. Dooden A15 Green Ape

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "judjonzz" wrote: > > I suspect modern fuels as well, but it is not a universal problem. My carbs never seem to get gummed up, at least on the bikes I am riding fairly regularly. My KLR, my DR, my DRZ, never seem to gum up no matter how long they sit. Friends in the area are always suffering from gummed pilot jets. > > One buddy is constantly having to strip and clean the carbs on his KLR and DRZ. He lives about 45 miles from here, so maybe there is a problem with his immediate fuel supply. We ride a lot of the same places, and I gas up in his town fairly often, so I can't say for sure that is the problem, but I am at a loss for other ideas. In any case, he is getting lots of practice, while my carbs have never been off the bike. If they ever do, I'm calling him, 'cause he's the expert. > > --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "nicholsm4" wrote: > > > > I have continued to have fuel problems, won't idle without choke, with my 2009. The bike can sit for just one week and it occurs. Called the local dealer and they are seeing the same problem in other Kawasaki M/C's the KLR and Ninja 250 in particular. The dealer believes it may be caused by ethanol in the fuel. I have reviewed the solutions on this site - drain the carb, sea foam, run the carb dry. But I don't see these as solutions, just band aids. Anyone have any other ideas? > > >

[Rick McCauley]

I don't have the manual with me, but I am almost positive it states that ethanol blend of 10 - 15% is acceptable. As far as fuel problems, If you aren't going to ride your bike for a while, drain the carb. And it sure doesn't hurt to add a little Sea-foam every once in a while either. A pound of prevention is....... Rick A17

--- On Tue, 9/15/09, Jeff Khoury wrote: From: Jeff Khoury Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] 2009 Fuel Problems To: "Charles" Cc: "nicholsm4" , "DSN KLR650" DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 6:16 PM I don't have any problems running ethanol-containing gas in my KLR. Ethanol has two major drawbacks: * It will deteriorate rubber that is not rated to carry it. and * It will make your engine run a little hotter. I believe all of the rubber in the KLR can handle ethanol. I've had no problems with it. My bike does not run overly hot, so I don't think that's a concern either. As I've said on previous posts, it boils down to the other additives in the gas, such as here in California, that cause the problems. In my spare time I run a backyard MC repair service and well over half my work is carb cleaning (for that very reason). But hey, I'm not complaining. .. it makes me good money. Cheers! -Jeff Khoury ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles" To: "Jeff Khoury" Cc: "nicholsm4" , "DSN KLR650" Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:35:35 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] 2009 Fuel Problems Jeff, I just got my 2009 last week. I have no problems so far, of course. Im going to read the link you provided, of course, but a quick question: should I stay away from ethanol? I live in the boonies, and we have only 3 gas stations local. I think they all sell ethanol blends.... Chuck F. NE PA On Sep 15, 2009, at 15:20, Jeff Khoury wrote: > As a self-proclaimed carburetor dude, I can tell you 100% that > ethanol is not the problem. It is the other additives that they put > in the fuel, mainly for emissions purposes that leaves a varnish on > your carb parts. I've cleaned that varnish off a lot of jets. > > Your Pilot circuit is clogged. I could go into a lengthy explanation > as to why it is clogged, but you said you've read it all already. > > If a bike will run with the enrichener (choke) on, but promptly dies > when you take it off, that is the case. At that point, no amount of > Sea Foam or other additive will clear it up, because no fuel (and > additive, by extension) can flow through the clogged area to clean it. > > Your only solution is to clean or replace your pilot jet. Clean, as > in remove it and clean it. Most of the time, you'll have to > physically open the hole again. > > Once that is done, the preventative maintenance will keep it from > happening again. The problem is that it has been partially clogged > for a long time and you're trying to fix it with preventative > measures. You have to FIX it, then run your PMS. > > http://www.dsrtegl com/2009/ 07/care-and- feeding-of- your- > carbureted.html > > The reason the dealer sees a lot of this is that the models you > mentioned are carbureted, wherein most newer bikes have FI. FI'd > bikes are not subject to the evaporation that Carb'd bikes are, and > the EPA is requiring more non-volitile additives all the time. > > Ethanol, when it evaporates leaves no residue behind. Ethanol is not > the problem. Ethanol can disintegrate crappy rubber parts, but > that's not the problem we have here. You have a varnish problem, but > nothing a couple of hours and a can of carb cleaner won't cure. > > > > -Jeff Khoury > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]