sounds like the 08 is junk

[revmaaatin]

There is an ongoing thread titled: IMS tank and Dual-Star panniers that does not include any discussion if mounting the tank panniers/IMS tank will effect cooling. I started a new thread to address that aspect as I am curious to the effects of shrouds, vents and the use of panniers on an OEM tank. There was a previous discussion concerning a bike with an OEM tank with panniers that was reported to be overheating (or at least a high needle position on the water temp gauge)--and the discussion/speculation that the overheating was due to the tank panniers blocking the forward shroud vents. There seemed to be a consensus that that was 'true'. My personal experience was completely contrary to the consensus. shrug. I read the discussion without comment. I would suggest that the high temp gauge is not really HOT unless there is an exchange of fluid into the overflow bottle, and it is running out on the ground. Now that would be hot. In 5 years of reading the LIST, I have yet to hear of anyone overflowing a radiator bottle--but I could have missed it.... Does anyone have anything other than speculation that blocking the shroud vents makes a bike run hot? I have ran the past 10K+ miles with the vents fully blocked with Wolfman panniers with no ill effect--that I can discern. I place the panniers as far forward for weight distribution as well as giving me more room to slide forward on the seat without bumping the panniers with my knees. (I have very 'sensitive' knees. cough). OAT has been as high as 96+F, with the radiator temp as high as 240F (as indicated by the Watson temp gauge overlay). Of those 10K+ smiles, the last 6K+ miles has had a thermobob installed (Rad temp as high as 240F briefly during a slow, downwind pavement drive through a town). That temp quickly returned to the 195-205F range when additional air was being blown across the radiator. IVO others that ride the bike without tank shrouds, it seems to me, covering the tank vent is a mute point; The Q is this: 1. Are the tank shrouds just something to make the bike look sexy? 2. Does the shroud vent's 'really' serve a necessary function? 3. Can they be covered without any long term defect? 4. Does anyone have any hard data to support their findings, either covered, uncovered, or shroud-less? (Watson?) 5. Did IMS put vents on the tank because it was similar to OEM? It seems to me I saw some early IMS/military applications where there were no vents at all... 6. Has anyone did any temp reading/test to validate KHI engineering-- that either validates/negates the tank shroud, or tank shroud vent? (Watson?) IE temps recorded with shroud on, shroud off, vent open, vent covered, etc plus the difference in radiator exit-air temp from an OEM tank/shroud vs those of an IMS tank. overall cooling: On other list, some tout the 'pat-mod' to push more air through the radiator--which has been suggested that it is most useful during higher OAT's but less useful during lower OAT. 7. Any hard data here to support the effects +/- of a pat-mad? Or is it possibly just something that feels good, and should be helpful? This thread starts with the premise that the shroud and vent are necessary--and that the KHI did research to substantiate the need for such. Did KHI do research that substantiates the need for a vented fender to help direct air across the radiator?--which is lost when many change to the lower fender. I have my doubts that the shroud, or the vent plays much into the overall cooling capacity of the KLR, especially at low speeds. revmaaatin.

[W.V. Doran]

I installed one of the original IMS tanks (no shroud vents) on my KLR in 1999. I never had over heating issues. I installed a new IMS a few months ago and there seems to be no difference in temps. I have used Aerostich panniers on both with no heating problems. WVDoran Scottsdale, AZ

--- On Tue, 10/14/08, revmaaatin wrote: From: revmaaatin Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Tank Shroud Vents--Cooling the KLR To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2008, 6:01 PM There is an ongoing thread titled: IMS tank and Dual-Star panniers that does not include any discussion if mounting the tank panniers/IMS tank will effect cooling. I started a new thread to address that aspect as I am curious to the effects of shrouds, vents and the use of panniers on an OEM tank. There was a previous discussion concerning a bike with an OEM tank with panniers that was reported to be overheating (or at least a high needle position on the water temp gauge)--and the discussion/speculat ion that the overheating was due to the tank panniers blocking the forward shroud vents. There seemed to be a consensus that that was 'true'. My personal experience was completely contrary to the consensus. shrug. I read the discussion without comment. I would suggest that the high temp gauge is not really HOT unless there is an exchange of fluid into the overflow bottle, and it is running out on the ground. Now that would be hot. In 5 years of reading the LIST, I have yet to hear of anyone overflowing a radiator bottle--but I could have missed it.... Does anyone have anything other than speculation that blocking the shroud vents makes a bike run hot? I have ran the past 10K+ miles with the vents fully blocked with Wolfman panniers with no ill effect--that I can discern. I place the panniers as far forward for weight distribution as well as giving me more room to slide forward on the seat without bumping the panniers with my knees. (I have very 'sensitive' knees. cough). OAT has been as high as 96+F, with the radiator temp as high as 240F (as indicated by the Watson temp gauge overlay). Of those 10K+ smiles, the last 6K+ miles has had a thermobob installed (Rad temp as high as 240F briefly during a slow, downwind pavement drive through a town). That temp quickly returned to the 195-205F range when additional air was being blown across the radiator. IVO others that ride the bike without tank shrouds, it seems to me, covering the tank vent is a mute point; The Q is this: 1. Are the tank shrouds just something to make the bike look sexy? 2. Does the shroud vent's 'really' serve a necessary function? 3. Can they be covered without any long term defect? 4. Does anyone have any hard data to support their findings, either covered, uncovered, or shroud-less? (Watson?) 5. Did IMS put vents on the tank because it was similar to OEM? It seems to me I saw some early IMS/military applications where there were no vents at all... 6. Has anyone did any temp reading/test to validate KHI engineering- - that either validates/negates the tank shroud, or tank shroud vent? (Watson?) IE temps recorded with shroud on, shroud off, vent open, vent covered, etc plus the difference in radiator exit-air temp from an OEM tank/shroud vs those of an IMS tank. overall cooling: On other list, some tout the 'pat-mod' to push more air through the radiator--which has been suggested that it is most useful during higher OAT's but less useful during lower OAT. 7. Any hard data here to support the effects +/- of a pat-mad? Or is it possibly just something that feels good, and should be helpful? This thread starts with the premise that the shroud and vent are necessary--and that the KHI did research to substantiate the need for such. Did KHI do research that substantiates the need for a vented fender to help direct air across the radiator?--which is lost when many change to the lower fender. I have my doubts that the shroud, or the vent plays much into the overall cooling capacity of the KLR, especially at low speeds. revmaaatin. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[boulder_adv_rider]

Revmaaatin - It is my opinion that the IMS tank vents are merely adding volume via venturi effect. As the bulk of the air is being funneled into the wings, these vents deliver a touch more cool air in terms of more air volume. I, too, have run the Wolfman tank saddle bags and it has never changed performance or heat range. Of course, I try not to cover them if I can, but leg room is critical especially when the bags are stuffed with Nalgene water bags. So I move them forward. Unfortunately, I don't have any measured data--just combat experience. In Baja or desert situations, I don't leave home without them. The temps involved are well over 110F in these conditions. If the bags cover the vents, so be it. I agree I've never steamed-out my rad yet. It runs hot which is another reason to run higher octane 91 fuel to reduce risk of detonation. As for the vented fender, this is for aerodynamic purposes and coincidentally cooling. Without these perforations, the buffeting would be much greater at road speeds as the air entering the fender channel would make a radical bend as it hits the trailing edge. Again, I don't have numeric data to support this nor a PhD in aerodynamics, but I have stayed countless nights in Holiday Inn Express. I will note Bill's research indicated a heat-reduction gain while moving by replacing the stock fender with a road-oriented one. Brian

[Kurt Grife]

I don't use tank panniers but like Bill I recently changed from the original IMS tank to the new version that has vents and see no difference in coolant temps as a result.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "W.V. Doran" wrote: > > I installed one of the original IMS tanks (no shroud vents) on my KLR in 1999. I never had over heating issues. I installed a new IMS a few months ago and there seems to be no difference in temps. I have used Aerostich panniers on both with no heating problems. > > WVDoran > Scottsdale, AZ >

[Jud Jones]

Several years ago, there was quite a bit of discussion of this issue. I think the consensus was that tank panniers that covered the stock vents actually resulted in cooler operating temps. Similarly, the old IMS tank without the vents was thought to give cooler running. I ran both ways, and was unable to detect any difference at all. I suspect the vents in the newer IMS tanks are more for appearance than anything else. Without them, that is a pretty big expanse of plastic.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote: > > There is an ongoing thread titled: > > IMS tank and Dual-Star panniers > > that does not include any discussion if mounting the tank > panniers/IMS tank will effect cooling. I started a new thread to > address that aspect as I am curious to the effects of shrouds, vents > and the use of panniers on an OEM tank. > > There was a previous discussion concerning a bike with an OEM tank > with panniers that was reported to be overheating (or at least a high > needle position on the water temp gauge)--and the > discussion/speculation that the overheating was due to the tank > panniers blocking the forward shroud vents. There seemed to be a > consensus that that was 'true'. My personal experience was > completely contrary to the consensus. shrug. I read the discussion > without comment. > > I would suggest that the high temp gauge is not really HOT unless > there is an exchange of fluid into the overflow bottle, and it is > running out on the ground. Now that would be hot. In 5 years of > reading the LIST, I have yet to hear of anyone overflowing a radiator > bottle--but I could have missed it.... > > Does anyone have anything other than speculation that blocking the > shroud vents makes a bike run hot? > > I have ran the past 10K+ miles with the vents fully blocked with > Wolfman panniers with no ill effect--that I can discern. I place the > panniers as far forward for weight distribution as well as giving me > more room to slide forward on the seat without bumping the panniers > with my knees. (I have very 'sensitive' knees. cough). > OAT has been as high as 96+F, with the radiator temp as high as 240F > (as indicated by the Watson temp gauge overlay). > Of those 10K+ smiles, the last 6K+ miles has had a thermobob > installed (Rad temp as high as 240F briefly during a slow, downwind > pavement drive through a town). That temp quickly returned to the > 195-205F range when additional air was being blown across the > radiator. > > IVO others that ride the bike without tank shrouds, it seems to me, > covering the tank vent is a mute point; > > The Q is this: > 1. Are the tank shrouds just something to make the bike look sexy? > 2. Does the shroud vent's 'really' serve a necessary function? > 3. Can they be covered without any long term defect? > 4. Does anyone have any hard data to support their findings, either > covered, uncovered, or shroud-less? (Watson?) > > 5. Did IMS put vents on the tank because it was similar to OEM? > > It seems to me I saw some early IMS/military applications where there > were no vents at all... > > 6. Has anyone did any temp reading/test to validate KHI engineering-- > that either validates/negates the tank shroud, or tank shroud vent? > (Watson?) IE temps recorded with shroud on, shroud off, vent open, > vent covered, etc > plus > the difference in radiator exit-air temp from an OEM tank/shroud vs > those of an IMS tank. > > overall cooling: > On other list, some tout the 'pat-mod' to push more air through the > radiator--which has been suggested that it is most useful during > higher OAT's but less useful during lower OAT. > > 7. Any hard data here to support the effects +/- of a pat-mad? Or is > it possibly just something that feels good, and should be helpful? > > This thread starts with the premise that the shroud and vent are > necessary--and that the KHI did research to substantiate the need for > such. Did KHI do research that substantiates the need for a vented > fender to help direct air across the radiator?--which is lost when > many change to the lower fender. > > I have my doubts that the shroud, or the vent plays much into the > overall cooling capacity of the KLR, especially at low speeds. > > > revmaaatin. >

[Jud Jones]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Jud Jones" wrote:

> > Several years ago, there was quite a bit of discussion of this issue. I think the consensus > was that tank panniers that covered the stock vents actually resulted in cooler operating > temps. Similarly, the old IMS tank without the vents was thought to give cooler running. I > ran both ways, and was unable to detect any difference at all. I suspect the vents in the > newer IMS tanks are more for appearance than anything else. Without them, that is a > pretty big expanse of plastic. >

I misspoke when I said 'consensus'. It was more a school of thought, to which most did not subscribe.

[fasteddiecopeman]

Martin, Go to Bill Watson's site and read the research he's done on the cooling system - should answer your questions. Ed

[Kirk Briscoe]

I have an '08 with 5,200 miles. I have not had any problems with it and I ride all types of roads. Take a look at the following web site maintained by a friend of mine who has had numerous KLRs, all years, and see what he had to say after riding an '08 for nearly 12K miles http://verlenelson.com/KLR/#log2008 Kirk Briscoe '08 KLR650 '87 FJ1200 DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hilton" wrote:

> > Scott, I wanted to give you an update on the Top Gun Spring I

installed on

> my 08 KLR650 last week. > I was concerned that the ride would be to harsh, not the case at

all. In

> fact I have the pre-load as low as it will go and have sufficient

height for

> a correct sag. The ride is as smooth as before with more competent

feeling

> while running curves. I have not ridden the bike with fully loaded

the side

> bags, but I do feel more than confident with the heavier spring. I

would

> recommend MMP/ Top Gun Spring. As you know I purchased the 8.0kg

heavier

> spring. > http://www.topgunmotorcycles.com/Product_Pages/klrprod2.html > Mike H. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott St. Hillier" > To: "Mike Hilton" > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 11:04 AM > Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Sounds like the 08 is JUNK > > > > Thanks, I appreciate your reply. > > > > Scott > > > > On Fri, 1 Aug 2008 10:10:36 -0500, "Mike Hilton" > > said: > >> Scott, I purchased my rear spring from Top Gun, Multisurfacing

Experts:

> >> http://www.topgunmotorcycles.com/Product_Pages/klrprod2.html .

Send him

> >> an > >> email if you are not sure on which spring to order. I ended up

ordering

> >> the > >> heavier of the three. I'm 230 and have Pelican bags top and

side. Don't

> >> carry a lots but I do like the bike not to squat as much as it

did with

> >> the > >> original spring. I had the local Honda dealer install the

spring, $18.00

> >> I > >> believe. Check back in a couple of days and I'll tell you how I

like

> >> it... > >> Will take it out this weekend. > >> Mike H. > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Scott St. Hillier" > >> To: "Mike Hilton" > >> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:38 PM > >> Subject: Re: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Sounds like the 08 is JUNK > >> > >> > >> >I love my 08 and I am interested in the rear spring you

replaced. What

> >> > did you get and where did you get it? Any advice... I have the > >> > happy-trail.com panniers and a Givi copy (JC Whitney) top

trunk and

> >> > sometimes I load down and go two up. Could use a stiffer

spring.

> >> > > >> > TIA, > >> > > >> > Scott > >> > > >> > On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 15:05:04 -0500, "Mike Hilton"

> >> > said: > >> >> Mean Green, I'll Amen your story. I've had my 08 for 2

months and

> >> >> nearly > >> >> 3,000 miles with no problems. The only thing I decided to

change was

> >> >> the > >> >> spring on the rear shock. When I added Pelican cases, side

and top,

> >> >> it > >> >> seemed to squat more than I wanted. I had owned 3 KLRs in

the past

> >> >> 10 > >> >> years, and would not trade this one of any of the others. > >> >> Mike H. > >> >> > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: thewildmanrides650 > >> >> To: DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com > >> >> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 1:26 PM > >> >> Subject: [DSN_KLR650] Re: Sounds like the 08 is JUNK > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> the 08 klr is the nimblest best handling and most reliable

machine i

> >> >> have ever owned. traded in my brand spankin new vstrom 650

and rode

> >> >> away smiling. I did this after following my buddie on a

2500 mile

> >> >> ride > >> >> to mount washington. i was blown off the road twice on that

vstrom

> >> >> and > >> >> it was'nt my ridin ability either.I have 6000 miles on mine

and I

> >> >> let > >> >> my brother ride it on a 100 mile ride the next week he

bought

> >> >> one.you > >> >> can say what you want about the 08 klr but nowbody is ever

getting

> >> >> mine by the way my buddie was riding a 08 klr. i also broke

it in at

> >> >> 80 mph any body that ownes one knows it is impossible not

to do 80

> >> >> on > >> >> this bike.people look at it and say nice dirt bike and i

laugh.Mean

> >> >> Green or bust. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> >> > >> > -- > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > -- > > > > >

[E.L. Green]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "revmaaatin" wrote:

> > There is an ongoing thread titled: > > IMS tank and Dual-Star panniers > > that does not include any discussion if mounting the tank > panniers/IMS tank will effect cooling. I started a new thread to

I have the original IMS tank without vents. My KLR does not overheat. I run 80% distilled water/ 20% glycol in the summer, and 50/50 in the winter. My personal thought is that the (pre '08) KLR radiator is undersized for summer use at slow speeds, and needs the help that running a higher level of distilled water gives you in order to keep temperatures down. I run lower temperatures with my IMS tank and the 80/20 mix than I did with the original tank and shrouds with a 50/50 mix. Note that I use Aerostich tank panniers on my bike. They are Good Stuff. Four years old now and a little faded, but still work just fine.

> This thread starts with the premise that the shroud and vent are > necessary--and that the KHI did research to substantiate the need for > such. Did KHI do research that substantiates the need for a vented

Bwhahahahaha! Snicker. KHI. Do research. Oh man. You break me up, dude!

> I have my doubts that the shroud, or the vent plays much into the > overall cooling capacity of the KLR, especially at low speeds.

I'm sure it plays some role at some speeds, but doesn't appear to be a big contributor. As I've noted, my IMS tank doesn't have vents, and my bike cools just fine.