nklr - wtt my aerostitch xl darien regular for your xl darien light

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I just bought a 94 KLR with 17k miles...everything runs out well, but it smokes bad when started. I've never had this problem before with anthing....maybe ALWAYS smoking...but not just at start. (Am using non synthic 10w-40 in temps between 35f and 65f.) We're talking blue, oil burning smoke here...it looks like a two stroke. Bike does not seem to be running rich or lean, and choke it functioning correctly. My first thought is worn out piston..though that seems unlikely at 17k. Even less likely would be the cylinder. I see that Kawa has come out with a new oil ring for the 2008 KLR...and there was some question as to the quality of the valve stem seals on Eldon Carl's site. The bike runs like a champ when warm, with no smoke whatsoever. So, before I just give up and replace the valve stem seals on the head, rebore the cylinder, AND get an new pistons and rings, I thought I'd see if anyone else had come across this before. Anyone out here have/had similar issues? And if so, how were they cured.? Thanks in advance for any comments! Doug --------------------------------- Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[jokerloco9@aol.com]

Replace the valve seals. Cheap and easy. Adjust the valves while you are there. If that doesn't fix it, when a valve job is needed. Not likely rings as they would leak at all times. Jeff A20 -----Original Message----- From: rdougjenson@... To: DSN_klr650@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 9:41 AM Subject: [DSN_KLR650] smoking at startup only! I just bought a 94 KLR with 17k miles...everything runs out well, but it smokes bad when started. I've never had this problem before with anthing....maybe ALWAYS smoking...but not just at start. (Am using non synthic 10w-40 in temps between 35f and 65f.) We're talking blue, oil burning smoke here...it looks like a two stroke. Bike does not seem to be running rich or lean, and choke it functioning correctly. My first thought is worn out piston..though that seems unlikely at 17k. Even less likely would be the cylinder. I see that Kawa has come out with a new oil ring for the 2008 KLR...and there was some question as to the quality of the valve stem seals on Eldon Carl's site. The bike runs like a champ when warm, with no smoke whatsoever. So, before I just give up and replace the valve stem seals on the head, rebore the cylinder, AND get an new pistons and rings, I thought I'd see if anyone else had come across this before. Anyone out here have/had similar issues? And if so, how were they cured.? Thanks in advance for any comments! Doug --------------------------------- Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[C L Cooper]

In a small block Chevy that's typically an indication of a valve guide/seal problem. Chuck C San Diego, CA

On 3/13/07, - wrote: > > I just bought a 94 KLR with 17k miles...everything runs out well, but it > smokes bad when started. I've never had this problem before with > anthing....maybe ALWAYS smoking...but not just at start. (Am using non > synthic 10w-40 in temps between 35f and 65f.) We're talking blue, oil > burning smoke here...it looks like a two stroke. Bike does not seem to be > running rich or lean, and choke it functioning correctly. > My first thought is worn out piston..though that seems unlikely at 17k. > Even less likely would be the cylinder. I see that Kawa has come out with a > new oil ring for the 2008 KLR...and there was some question as to the > quality of the valve stem seals on Eldon Carl's site. The bike runs like a > champ when warm, with no smoke whatsoever. > So, before I just give up and replace the valve stem seals on the head, > rebore the cylinder, AND get an new pistons and rings, I thought I'd see if > anyone else had come across this before. > Anyone out here have/had similar issues? And if so, how were they cured.? > Thanks in advance for any comments! > Doug > > --------------------------------- > Get your own web address. > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[andyt59@cableone.net]

I will disagree with all of you. Here is why. My 1995 KLR, 22K on the clock. It is currently having the cylinder bored and going .005 OS (the next piston over size). When measured, the cylinder looked like a "Tulip." Let me explain, out of spec at the top, narrow just below, wide through the center and narrow again at the bottom. IMHO, if you are going to go so far as new valve seals, you will also need to put new guides in it as well which will require new valves. Fix it once and enjoy riding the bike or you will be constantly taking it apart chasing problems like I did and wondering why you bought the P.O.S. in the first place. Do it right the first time: Have the Cyl. Head rebuilt with new valves, seals and guides. Have the cylinder bored and install new piston AND rings. Yeah, you're gonna fork out some $$$, but. I bought mine to ride not work on. I can almost guarantee yours is smoking ALL the time. It is not as noticeable when the bike is warm because it is hotter and burning that oil more completely. How often are you adding oil? -Andy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Kerry Stottlemyer]

I agree with fix it right the first time but Find out what is wrong with the motor exactly. then do the rebuild based on the measurements taken. I had typed up a response to this but sent it to Doug instead of the group (somebody fix that friggin default setting) I basicly said Compression test and leak down test that will tell you whats wrong with the engine in no uncertain terms. As for chasing your tail with engine problems by not fully examining the engine inside and out well I learned this lesson the hard way. 18 years old and an old beat up 65 chevy truck with more miles on it then god should allow. Well with in three months of owning it #6 piston decided she didn't like being in on piece anymore. So I proceed to do a half ass rebuild. Just swaping in three new pistons a full set of rings and rod bearings along with the required gasket set. all withj the engine still in the truck mind you. A few months latter all most the same thing. The engine blew the rings into the oil pan on three pistons. Screw this... Pulled motor from truck. placed on engine stand a spent two weeks pulling it apart, having the machine work done, and putting it back together again. Cost of rebuild with my labor $750 with a new clutch. Cause of the rings blowing.... Any guesses???? Come on Anybody???? How about .025" of taper in the cylinders with the rings flexing like that on each stroke it was a matter of time. Not to mention th ehead had half a dozen cracks in it mostly between the valves in the web. So we bored out the block the the next availble size +.060" over. .040" piston were on back order forever but they had .060" on the shelf. all new bearings, surfaced the crank and cam, new water pump, rebuilt the carb myself, installed a new distributer. And bought a rebuilt head with valves, springs, pushrods and lifters. Truck ran like a champ after that and I put 70K on it before selling it to some sucker for $400. It was a lot of work, the truck was down for two weeks but she ran trouble free for eight more years. So you can spend money now or spend money later either way you will pay. Kerry

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, wrote: > > I will disagree with all of you. Here is why. My 1995 KLR, 22K on the clock. > It is currently having the cylinder bored and going .005 OS (the next piston > over size). When measured, the cylinder looked like a "Tulip." Let me > explain, out of spec at the top, narrow just below, wide through the center > and narrow again at the bottom. IMHO, if you are going to go so far as new > valve seals, you will also need to put new guides in it as well which will > require new valves. Fix it once and enjoy riding the bike or you will be > constantly taking it apart chasing problems like I did and wondering why you > bought the P.O.S. in the first place. Do it right the first time: Have the > Cyl. Head rebuilt with new valves, seals and guides. Have the cylinder bored > and install new piston AND rings. Yeah, you're gonna fork out some $$$, but. > I bought mine to ride not work on. I can almost guarantee yours is smoking > ALL the time. It is not as noticeable when the bike is warm because it is > hotter and burning that oil more completely. How often are you adding oil? > > > > -Andy > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >

[Matt Knowles]

On Mar 13, 2007, at 2:41 PM, Kerry Stottlemyer wrote:

> (somebody fix that friggin default setting)

Fred, how many orders do we need to place with Arrowhead to get this done? Matt Knowles - Ferndale, CA - http://www.knowlesville.com/matt/motorcycles '99 Sprint ST - for going fast and far (2CZUSA) '01 KLR650 (A15) - for exploring the North Coast backroads '97 KLX300 & '01 Lakota - for playing in the dirt '79 KZ400 - just because it was the first vehicle I ever owned

[Jud Jones]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, wrote:

> > I will disagree with all of you. Here is why. My 1995 KLR, 22K on the clock. > It is currently having the cylinder bored and going .005 OS (the next piston > over size). When measured, the cylinder looked like a "Tulip." Let me > explain, out of spec at the top, narrow just below, wide through the center > and narrow again at the bottom. IMHO, if you are going to go so far as new > valve seals, you will also need to put new guides in it as well which will > require new valves. Fix it once and enjoy riding the bike or you will be > constantly taking it apart chasing problems like I did and wondering why you > bought the P.O.S. in the first place. Do it right the first time: Have the > Cyl. Head rebuilt with new valves, seals and guides. Have the cylinder bored > and install new piston AND rings. Yeah, you're gonna fork out some $$$, but. > I bought mine to ride not work on. I can almost guarantee yours is smoking > ALL the time. It is not as noticeable when the bike is warm because it is > hotter and burning that oil more completely. How often are you adding oil?

Just took my DR650 on a 1500 mile trip to Copper Canyon. It smokes copiously at startup. I assume it smokes a little all the time, as you suggest. I added no oil in Mexico. When I came across the border, it took half a quart to fill the sight glass completely, a little more full than right after my pre-trip oil change. I'd guess this motor would go a long way on fresh seals, and maybe guides, depending on how they spec out.

[Norm Keller]

Smoking at start-up or on hard deceleration is almost always due to valve guide seal leakage on the intake side. Oil control ring problems will usually show smoke on hard acceleration. Reason: Oil will drain from the cylinder head area down the valve stem past the intake valve guide if the seal(s) are bad, there is nothing to prevent oil leakage. The oil runs into the intake port and combustion chamber where it remains until start-up heat causes it to partially burn forming smoke. Bad oil control rings will not cause oil to enter the combustion chamber when the engine is not running because oil would have to flow upward on the cylinder wall to pass the ring. Obviously this won't happen unless the bike is inverted or parked in zero gravity. Bad oil control rings will fail to scrape oil from the cylinder walls efficiently enough when the engine is running, usually at higher RPM. Oil remaining on the cylinder wall will remain in place sufficiently for the piston and compression rings to pass, allowing the oil to arrive above the piston. When the piston moves upward again, the compression rings will scrape the oil from the cylinder wall and throw the oil into the combustion chamber air stream. This oil will be more evenly mixed in the air-fuel charge and will burn with less smoke than the intake oil leak. It is common practice to change automotive valve guide seals without removing the cylinder head and this should be possible for the KLR. The procedure is to place the piston at BDC (Bottom Dead Centre), remove the camshafts, cam buckets (followers), apply high pressure air to the combustion chamber by means of a sparkplug adapter, compress the valve spring sufficiently to remove valve spring retainer "keepers", lift out valve spring. At this point the old valve guide seal is pulled from the valve guide and install the new seal. Replace the spring, retainer and keepers. Move to next valve. While it is possible for some oil to enter the exhaust port by leaking past bad exhaust valve guide seals, this is seldom a problem in practice. I've been waiting for a test mule in this area. Norm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[AT]

Quote: "The procedure is to place the piston at BDC (Bottom Dead Centre), remove the camshafts, cam buckets (followers), apply high pressure air to the combustion chamber by means of a sparkplug adapter, compress the valve spring sufficiently to remove valve spring retainer "keepers", lift out valve spring." Wouldn't you want it TDC? Then if for some reason you did drop one of the valves, it would be easier to retrieve it from the top of the cylinder than the bottom and you would have less area to compress. Just wondering, I did a similar procedure 11 years ago on my '59 Ford truck. Also, a lesson learned (through someone else's bad luck), if you are going to replace valves, check and replace the piston ring also. You WILL blow them out. They will not handle the added compression of well seated (and sealed) valves. I watched a classmate in High School do exactly that. The instructor told him he will be doing rings later on when he re-built the cylinder heads on his truck. Sure 'nuff, he didn't make it the 5 miles home when the engine seized because one or two of the rings in a couple of different cylinders decided they didn't want to play anymore. -Andy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[C L Cooper]

Why not just remove the head??? If you've gone to the trouble to open up the top end, it's only what, four bolts and two nuts? Gives you a chance to inspect for carbon build up, measure the cylinder and hone and throw a set of rings in if warranted. For the cost of a set of gaskets and another couple of hours or so it's time/money well spent. Chuck C San Diego, CA

On 3/14/07, AT wrote: > > Quote: > > "The procedure is to place the piston at BDC (Bottom Dead Centre), remove > the camshafts, cam buckets (followers), apply high pressure air to the > combustion chamber by means of a sparkplug adapter, compress the valve > spring sufficiently to remove valve spring retainer "keepers", lift out > valve spring." > > Wouldn't you want it TDC? Then if for some reason you did drop one of the > valves, it would be easier to retrieve it from the top of the cylinder > than > the bottom and you would have less area to compress. Just wondering, I did > a > similar procedure 11 years ago on my '59 Ford truck. Also, a lesson > learned > (through someone else's bad luck), if you are going to replace valves, > check > and replace the piston ring also. You WILL blow them out. They will not > handle the added compression of well seated (and sealed) valves. I watched > a > classmate in High School do exactly that. The instructor told him he will > be > doing rings later on when he re-built the cylinder heads on his truck. > Sure > 'nuff, he didn't make it the 5 miles home when the engine seized because > one > or two of the rings in a couple of different cylinders decided they didn't > want to play anymore. > > -Andy > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]