un-happy trails :-( ? customer service and jerkos. nklr

[Henrik M.]

Hi Guys, Question about oil color, changed the oil and the oil filter after I bought my A14 (1999) with 6000 kms on it. The oil was black, the filter didn`t have any metal particles or anything else on it though. I am curious does this mean the previous owner didn`t change the oil for a long time and neglected the bike? I know that I would never let the oil turn that color in my car for example. Also could this oil color (almost black) indicate some problems with the engine ? Thanks Henrik (Bracing himself for another Canadian winter) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com

[Guest]

my experience is that m/c oil gets black pretty fast. by 3000 mi, mine is scary black. i usually change at about 1500 mi now. mw

> -----Original Message----- > From: Henrik M. [mailto:hall90@...] > Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 7:39 AM > To: DSN_klr650@egroups.com > Subject: [DSN_klr650] Oil Color > > > Hi Guys, > > Question about oil color, changed the oil and the oil filter > after I bought > my A14 (1999) with 6000 kms on it. The oil was black, the filter > didn`t have > any metal particles or anything else on it though. I am curious does this > mean the previous owner didn`t change the oil for a long time and > neglected > the bike? I know that I would never let the oil turn that color in my car > for example. Also could this oil color (almost black) indicate > some problems > with the engine ? > > Thanks > > Henrik > (Bracing himself for another Canadian winter) > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com > > > Visit the KLR650 archives at > http://www.listquest.com/lq/search.html?ln=klr650 > Support Dual Sport News... dsneditor@... > Let's keep this list SPAM free! > > Visit our site at http://www.egroups.com/group/DSN_klr650 > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > DSN_klr650-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > >

[gyb@sprynet.com]

>Question about oil color, changed the oil and the oil filter >after I bought my A14 (1999) with 6000 kms on it. The oil was >black, the filter didn`t have any metal particles or anything >else on it though. I am curious does this mean the previous >owner didn`t change the oil for a long time and neglected the >bike? I know that I would never let the oil turn that color >in my car for example. Also could this oil color (almost black) >indicate some problems with the engine ?

Don't worry. It's actually a good sign. It means the oil is doing it's work. It has nothing to do with breakdown or lack of viscocity. If you use a decent brand of oil (but not necessarily synthetic), most tests I've seen show that it should be good for a good 3K miles (5K kilometers, for the lazy or mathematically challenged... , so there seems to be no need to replace it more often. Do you change your car's oils, or are you just looking at what comes out the dip-stick? I would be surprised if it is not black after 3K miles. Gustavo

[Ted Palmer]

Henrik M. wrote:

> Question about oil color, changed the oil and the oil filter after I bought > my A14 (1999) with 6000 kms on it. The oil was black, the filter didn`t have > any metal particles or anything else on it though.

[...] I have found that different oils go black at different rates. What this says about the oil's detergent content and effectiveness in relation to the engine condition is open to debate. Mister_T

[wicklands]

Hi All, I recently purchased a 2003 KLR that had 1042 miles on the odometer. I've owned 40 or so motorcycles over the years so I know better but I bought it on a dark rainy night from an owner that had a 40 watt light in the garage. Needless to say I missed several things in my inspection. One of the items that I missed was that the oil window was black. I at first thought that the window had darkened as I have seen that happen on other bikes. It turns out that it was the oil that was black and way, way over full. I drained out about 3.6 quarts. I'm guessing that the PO filled it with the bike on the side stand. Finally to my question: How dark does your oil get and how fast does it darken? After that first oil & filter change and 250 miles of riding it was close to black again. The only thing that I can think of is that the PO abused the clutch and that is what is turning it dark. It did not have a magnetic drain plug but I examined the drain pan and did not see excessive metal shavings. Any thoughts from the experts? Thanks, Steve W. NoCal

[Blake Sobiloff]

On Apr 6, 2006, at 1:58 PM, wicklands wrote:

> Finally to my question: How dark does your oil get and how > fast does it darken? After that first oil & filter change > and 250 miles of riding it was close to black again. The only > thing that I can think of is that the PO abused the clutch > and that is what is turning it dark.

Oil color has almost no correlation with oil or engine condition. Different oils will turn dark at different rates due to different additive packages reacting in different ways with various combustion by-products. So, just about everyone will give you a different answer to your question, and all answers will be correct. Also, I don't think that clutch abuse is going to show up as darkened oil, either, so unless you're experiencing clutch problems I wouldn't worry about the condition of your clutch. Note that the "Kawasaki" way to check the oil level leads some to believe that the engine is under-filled; see www.multisurfacemotorcycling.com/klrpage/oilchange.htm> for an alternative method. -- Blake Sobiloff http://sobiloff.typepad.com/> San Jose, CA (USA)

[nakedwaterskier]

to get black on a new bike it must have over 2000 miles on it ie speedo was most likely disconnected for awhile j

[Mike Frey]

Most people who chime in are probably going to say that the KLR oil turns dark quickly. Mine does, it did it immediately after its first oil change and every one since. Nothing to worry about, it's a KLR thing. ...Even if the speedo was disconnected for a while, as Jeffrey just noted. My speedo cable vibrated off a couple of times so I might have 50 or so miles more than what the odometer says. wicklands wrote:

>Hi All, >I recently purchased a 2003 KLR that had 1042 miles on the >odometer. I've owned 40 or so motorcycles over the years >so I know better but I bought it on a dark rainy night from >an owner that had a 40 watt light in the garage. Needless >to say I missed several things in my inspection. > >One of the items that I missed was that the oil window was >black. I at first thought that the window had darkened as >I have seen that happen on other bikes. It turns out that >it was the oil that was black and way, way over full. I >drained out about 3.6 quarts. I'm guessing that the PO filled >it with the bike on the side stand. > >Finally to my question: How dark does your oil get and how >fast does it darken? After that first oil & filter change >and 250 miles of riding it was close to black again. The only >thing that I can think of is that the PO abused the clutch >and that is what is turning it dark. It did not have a >magnetic drain plug but I examined the drain pan and did >not see excessive metal shavings. Any thoughts from the >experts? > >Thanks, > >Steve W. >NoCal > > > > > > >Archive Quicksearch at: http://www.angelfire.com/ut/moab/klr650_data_search.html >List sponsored by Dual Sport News at: www.dualsportnews.com >List FAQ courtesy of Chris Krok at: www.bigcee.com/klr650faq.html >Member Map at: http://www.frappr.com/dsnklr650 >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >

[Stuart Mumford]

> -----Original Message----- > to get black on a new bike it must have over 2000 miles on it ie speedo > was most likely disconnected for awhile > j >

This is not true. The oil I drained out of each of my KLRs at their first 500 mile service was black as Egypt's midnight. Thanks CA Stu A 13 A 14

[Jeff Saline]

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 20:58:39 -0000 "wicklands" writes:

> Hi All, > I recently purchased a 2003 KLR that had 1042 miles on the > odometer. I've owned 40 or so motorcycles over the years > so I know better but I bought it on a dark rainy night from > an owner that had a 40 watt light in the garage. Needless > to say I missed several things in my inspection. > > One of the items that I missed was that the oil window was > black. I at first thought that the window had darkened as > I have seen that happen on other bikes. It turns out that > it was the oil that was black and way, way over full. I > drained out about 3.6 quarts. I'm guessing that the PO filled > it with the bike on the side stand. > > Finally to my question: How dark does your oil get and how > fast does it darken? After that first oil & filter change > and 250 miles of riding it was close to black again. The only > thing that I can think of is that the PO abused the clutch > and that is what is turning it dark. It did not have a > magnetic drain plug but I examined the drain pan and did > not see excessive metal shavings. Any thoughts from the > experts? > > Thanks, > > Steve W. > NoCal

<><><><><><><> <><><><><><><> Steve, My oil can get pretty dark at times. From some oil analysis projects I was associated with in another life I can tell you that the color of the oil doesn't mean it's good or bad. Different additive packages in different oils will cause different results. I like to change my oil if I can't see through the window but that doesn't always happen. With an engine of unknown history I'd probably change the oil immediately upon receipt of the bike. Then again if it dirties up quickly. Maybe at 300-500 miles which might only be one or two days if the riding is good. Then again at about 1,000 smiles or so. I'd also change the oil filter each time and drain and examine it for particles so I'd get a better idea of what was happening in the engine. I've begun giving oil analysis a shot. Not because I think I really need it for the bike but because I find it interesting and can also share the results with the list. A concern I'd probably have when I found an engine that had been run over full on oil is internal engine wear. Many folks think thicker oil is better and more oil is ok. Neither is probably correct. When the oil level is above the level the engineers designed for the engine, problems can result. A couple problems that quickly come to mind are mixing air into the oil by the crankshaft splashing into the oil. That is called aeration and means the oil pump is moving air bubbles and oil through the engine. Aerated oil is a poor lubricant. Remember fluids don't compress and gasses do. So when you have aerated oil you have air and oil trying to prevent metal to metal contact in areas like main and connecting rod bearings and also the cam journals. Air compresses which can lead to metal to metal contact. If only oil is pumped into these areas you have oil between the metal surfaces and little to no wear. Another problem from the crankshaft splashing into the oil can be putting more oil on the cylinder walls than the oil control ring can handle. This can lead to the engine burning/using oil and also maybe stuck rings and unwanted residue/by products. I think it was Norm or Bill or maybe both of them that recently talked about using an oil that is too thick. That will/can impede the flow of lubricant to some areas and also allow increased engine wear. This is especially critical when the oil is cold and the engine is just being started. Moving thicker oil also takes more energy. It doesn't take a lot more energy but with our limited available power it's probably better to use what power is available, wisely. Best, Jeff Saline ABC # 4412 South Dakota Airmarshal Airheads Beemer Club www.airheads.org The Beautiful Black Hills of South Dakota 75 R90/6, 03 KLR650, 79 R100RT