klr650: power loss

[traderpro2003]

Forgot to mention 1.5" lowering links. Basically, in bumps I bottomed a lot. However, without the links, I would have fallen over. I didn't fall, but my brother did a lot. His lowered kick stands showed up late, so he could get them installed. Needless to say, he fell a lot when the bike started going over...he simply couldn't hold it up. I didn't have much problem because the links made it easier to clutch, stablize, and redirect. But bottoming out sure sucked... --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "traderpro2003" wrote:

> > Spent Sunday riding in Anza Borrego desert with my brother.

Coming

> from the east, I don't have tremendous sand riding > experience/opportunity, and my brother is new to KLR family. > > Does anyone here that considers themself a very good deep sand

rider

> have any tips on how to tame this beast or should I consult a KLR > Whisperer? I tried to identify specific areas but any

suggestions,

> links, etc. would be most appreciated. > > 1. tire pressure - some say 15-20 psi. I dread pinch flats and > don't seem to 'feel' the benefit of lower pressure. I ran 30 psi > anyway. > > 2. riding posture - i found standing up knees slightly bent

elbows

> up/level to be the best 'balancing' position. but damn, it's > awfully scary hitting deep sand at speed and 'the hump' decides to > do whatever it pleases. > > 3. tires - i'm running stock. everyone else runs knobbies and > seems to have wider rear and front. can we get any wider tires

for

> the klr and do knobbies really make a "oh my gosh" difference? > > 4. experience - i realize nothing beats practice, so if it's

merely

> going back for more and more white knuckle riding, so be it. > > 5. load - i was carrying 3/4 fuel and 40+ lbs of gear (tools, > tubes, slime, food, water, rack, soft panniers, etc.) plus rider @ > 150 lb 5'9". to really enjoy the ride, need I strip the gear to > absolute bare necessities? i do prefer the safety cushion. i

tried

> to keep anything heavy as low as possible in the panniers. but

also

> note i carried 2+ liters in my Camelbak. great for drinking but > perhaps it added to balancing act up on the high wire... > > Thanks in advance folks. - Brian >

[Jud Jones]

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "traderpro2003" wrote:

> > Spent Sunday riding in Anza Borrego desert with my brother. Coming > from the east, I don't have tremendous sand riding > experience/opportunity, and my brother is new to KLR family. > > Does anyone here that considers themself a very good deep sand rider > have any tips on how to tame this beast or should I consult a KLR > Whisperer? I tried to identify specific areas but any suggestions, > links, etc. would be most appreciated. > > 1. tire pressure - some say 15-20 psi. I dread pinch flats and > don't seem to 'feel' the benefit of lower pressure. I ran 30 psi > anyway. > > 2. riding posture - i found standing up knees slightly bent elbows > up/level to be the best 'balancing' position. but damn, it's > awfully scary hitting deep sand at speed and 'the hump' decides to > do whatever it pleases. > > 3. tires - i'm running stock. everyone else runs knobbies and > seems to have wider rear and front. can we get any wider tires for > the klr and do knobbies really make a "oh my gosh" difference? > > 4. experience - i realize nothing beats practice, so if it's merely > going back for more and more white knuckle riding, so be it. > > 5. load - i was carrying 3/4 fuel and 40+ lbs of gear (tools, > tubes, slime, food, water, rack, soft panniers, etc.) plus rider @ > 150 lb 5'9". to really enjoy the ride, need I strip the gear to > absolute bare necessities? i do prefer the safety cushion. i tried > to keep anything heavy as low as possible in the panniers. but also > note i carried 2+ liters in my Camelbak. great for drinking but > perhaps it added to balancing act up on the high wire... > > Thanks in advance folks. - Brian >

[Jud Jones]

Pinch flats are not much of a concern in sand. Lower pressures will work better. A tire with soft sidewalls like the K270 will want as much as 15/20 or even 18/24 to work, but a stiffer tire will work better at even lower pressures. At 13/18 you should still be safe against slipping the tire on the rim. Some would run even softer. A wider rear tire should not be necessary. You are not going to find much wider for a 21" rim, either, except for the 3.25 Kenda K270. You should be able to make a 3.00x21 work ok. Even a 50/50 tire like the K270 or CS858 is a big improvement over stock. Get your weight back, and keep the front wheel light by keeping the throttle on. Try more rear spring preload. My bike got much easier in the sand when I added a stiffer spring. Too much weight will bog you down. I'm no expert, and sometimes I auger in, but it goes much better for me when I can relax and let the bike find its own way. Don't hold on too tight and try to steer the bike precisely.

--- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "traderpro2003" wrote: > > Spent Sunday riding in Anza Borrego desert with my brother. Coming > from the east, I don't have tremendous sand riding > experience/opportunity, and my brother is new to KLR family. > > Does anyone here that considers themself a very good deep sand rider > have any tips on how to tame this beast or should I consult a KLR > Whisperer? I tried to identify specific areas but any suggestions, > links, etc. would be most appreciated. > > 1. tire pressure - some say 15-20 psi. I dread pinch flats and > don't seem to 'feel' the benefit of lower pressure. I ran 30 psi > anyway. > > 2. riding posture - i found standing up knees slightly bent elbows > up/level to be the best 'balancing' position. but damn, it's > awfully scary hitting deep sand at speed and 'the hump' decides to > do whatever it pleases. > > 3. tires - i'm running stock. everyone else runs knobbies and > seems to have wider rear and front. can we get any wider tires for > the klr and do knobbies really make a "oh my gosh" difference? > > 4. experience - i realize nothing beats practice, so if it's merely > going back for more and more white knuckle riding, so be it. > > 5. load - i was carrying 3/4 fuel and 40+ lbs of gear (tools, > tubes, slime, food, water, rack, soft panniers, etc.) plus rider @ > 150 lb 5'9". to really enjoy the ride, need I strip the gear to > absolute bare necessities? i do prefer the safety cushion. i tried > to keep anything heavy as low as possible in the panniers. but also > note i carried 2+ liters in my Camelbak. great for drinking but > perhaps it added to balancing act up on the high wire... > > Thanks in advance folks. - Brian >

[RM]

1. Increase spring rates on both ends. 2. Knobbies. Stiff carcass knobbies, rim locks, 10-12 psi rear and maybe 12-14 front. Dunlop D606 or Pirelli MT21 perhaps. 3. Fork brace (controversial). 4. Don't fill the gas tank. RM On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 02:19:45 -0000, "traderpro2003" said: 1. tire pressure - some say 15-20 psi. I dread pinch flats and don't seem to 'feel' the benefit of lower pressure. I ran 30 psi anyway. 2. riding posture - i found standing up knees slightly bent elbows up/level to be the best 'balancing' position. but damn, it's awfully scary hitting deep sand at speed and 'the hump' decides to do whatever it pleases. 3. tires - i'm running stock. everyone else runs knobbies and seems to have wider rear and front. can we get any wider tires for the klr and do knobbies really make a "oh my gosh" difference? 4. experience - i realize nothing beats practice, so if it's merely going back for more and more white knuckle riding, so be it. 5. load - i was carrying 3/4 fuel and 40+ lbs of gear (tools, tubes, slime, food, water, rack, soft panniers, etc.) plus rider @ 150 lb 5'9". to really enjoy the ride, need I strip the gear to

[Greg Schmidt]

I'm not an expert in deep sand either. I'm with your brother - I made alot of ant farms with my helmet sheild. A few tips I got from from other riders that helped me: Change to a 14 tooth front sprocket. Notice how the front end always washes out when decelerating. Accelerating is the huge and easier to do with the 14 tooth sporcket. Very low tire pressures - have an on board pump to pump 'em back up when back on the hard stuff. Gripsters are terrible in the sand. Weight back as much as possible. Keep the front end moving - or as told to me...steer like crazy. Keep a light grip on the bars too. Finally, I watch the marines fall at low speed too so I don't feel like so much of a geek when it happens. http://home.maine.rr.com/jellono/klr.wmv And also agree with everything below: Greg A9

> Pinch flats are not much of a concern in sand. Lower pressures

will work better. A tire with

> soft sidewalls like the K270 will want as much as 15/20 or even

18/24 to work, but a

> stiffer tire will work better at even lower pressures. At 13/18

you should still be safe

> against slipping the tire on the rim. Some would run even softer. > > A wider rear tire should not be necessary. You are not going to

find much wider for a 21"

> rim, either, except for the 3.25 Kenda K270. You should be able to

make a 3.00x21 work

> ok. > > Even a 50/50 tire like the K270 or CS858 is a big improvement over

stock.

> > Get your weight back, and keep the front wheel light by keeping

the throttle on.

> > Try more rear spring preload. My bike got much easier in the sand

when I added a stiffer

> spring. > > Too much weight will bog you down. > > I'm no expert, and sometimes I auger in, but it goes much better

for me when I can relax

> and let the bike find its own way. Don't hold on too tight and try

to steer the bike

> precisely. > > wrote: > > > > Spent Sunday riding in Anza Borrego desert with my brother.

Coming

> > from the east, I don't have tremendous sand riding > > experience/opportunity, and my brother is new to KLR family. > > > > Does anyone here that considers themself a very good deep sand

rider

> > have any tips on how to tame this beast or should I consult a

KLR

> > Whisperer? I tried to identify specific areas but any

suggestions,

> > links, etc. would be most appreciated.

[trevjoan5]

Weight back, DONT USE THE FRONT BRAKE,as for me i kinda prefer like a half standing riding position with my ass hanging over my real wheel.Let the bike find its way. --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Schmidt" wrote:

> > I'm not an expert in deep sand either. I'm with your brother - I > made alot of ant farms with my helmet sheild. > > A few tips I got from from other riders that helped me: > > Change to a 14 tooth front sprocket. Notice how the front end > always washes out when decelerating. Accelerating is the huge and > easier to do with the 14 tooth sporcket. > > Very low tire pressures - have an on board pump to pump 'em back

up

> when back on the hard stuff. > > Gripsters are terrible in the sand. > > Weight back as much as possible. Keep the front end moving - or

as

> told to me...steer like crazy. Keep a light grip on the bars too. > > Finally, I watch the marines fall at low speed too so I don't feel > like so much of a geek when it happens. > http://home.maine.rr.com/jellono/klr.wmv > > And also agree with everything below: > > Greg A9 > > > Pinch flats are not much of a concern in sand. Lower pressures > will work better. A tire with > > soft sidewalls like the K270 will want as much as 15/20 or even > 18/24 to work, but a > > stiffer tire will work better at even lower pressures. At 13/18 > you should still be safe > > against slipping the tire on the rim. Some would run even softer. > > > > A wider rear tire should not be necessary. You are not going to > find much wider for a 21" > > rim, either, except for the 3.25 Kenda K270. You should be able

to

> make a 3.00x21 work > > ok. > > > > Even a 50/50 tire like the K270 or CS858 is a big improvement

over

> stock. > > > > Get your weight back, and keep the front wheel light by keeping > the throttle on. > > > > Try more rear spring preload. My bike got much easier in the

sand

> when I added a stiffer > > spring. > > > > Too much weight will bog you down. > > > > I'm no expert, and sometimes I auger in, but it goes much better > for me when I can relax > > and let the bike find its own way. Don't hold on too tight and

try

> to steer the bike > > precisely. > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Spent Sunday riding in Anza Borrego desert with my brother. > Coming > > > from the east, I don't have tremendous sand riding > > > experience/opportunity, and my brother is new to KLR family. > > > > > > Does anyone here that considers themself a very good deep sand > rider > > > have any tips on how to tame this beast or should I consult a > KLR > > > Whisperer? I tried to identify specific areas but any > suggestions, > > > links, etc. would be most appreciated. >

[Lesley Lovering]

Maybe this was mentioned and I didn't see it and maybe it is just too obvious. But the number one thing is to keep your speed up, added to all the other things mentioned. I've had very limited experience with deep sand. However, with a brand new stock 2005, I was able to do foot to foot and a half deep sand. First time I didn't have enough speed and sort of toppled but made it the second time and out on the trails too. Nice thing about sand is it doesn't hurt too much when you fall. I think my tires were at standard pressure but this was a course and they may have messed with the pressure (without telling me) when they prechecked the bike. Oh and the guy who was there with a lowered KLR broke is leg (not in the sand, in the single track). Lesley A19 Canada (aka Great White North)

[Arden Kysely]

To the other good advice you've received, I'll add: --Steer with your feet. You're right to stand, now start to shift your weight from foot to foot to change direction. --Keep a light touch on the bars. You can wiggle them all you want in sand and they won't do you much good, but if you stiffen up you're asking for trouble. --Try unloading your bike before you practice. Set up camp or whatever, and get used to the sandy stretches on a lighter machine. You'll last longer, and have a much easier time if you have to pick it up. --Keep the throttle on. Not full on, just try to keep accelerating gently through the sand patch. Whatever you do, don't chop the throttle or hit the brakes. __Arden --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "traderpro2003" wrote:

> > Spent Sunday riding in Anza Borrego desert with my brother. Coming > from the east, I don't have tremendous sand riding > experience/opportunity, and my brother is new to KLR family. > > Does anyone here that considers themself a very good deep sand

rider

> have any tips on how to tame this beast or should I consult a KLR > Whisperer? I tried to identify specific areas but any suggestions, > links, etc. would be most appreciated. > > 1. tire pressure - some say 15-20 psi. I dread pinch flats and > don't seem to 'feel' the benefit of lower pressure. I ran 30 psi > anyway. > > 2. riding posture - i found standing up knees slightly bent elbows > up/level to be the best 'balancing' position. but damn, it's > awfully scary hitting deep sand at speed and 'the hump' decides to > do whatever it pleases. > > 3. tires - i'm running stock. everyone else runs knobbies and > seems to have wider rear and front. can we get any wider tires for > the klr and do knobbies really make a "oh my gosh" difference? > > 4. experience - i realize nothing beats practice, so if it's

merely

> going back for more and more white knuckle riding, so be it. > > 5. load - i was carrying 3/4 fuel and 40+ lbs of gear (tools, > tubes, slime, food, water, rack, soft panniers, etc.) plus rider @ > 150 lb 5'9". to really enjoy the ride, need I strip the gear to > absolute bare necessities? i do prefer the safety cushion. i

tried

> to keep anything heavy as low as possible in the panniers. but

also

> note i carried 2+ liters in my Camelbak. great for drinking but > perhaps it added to balancing act up on the high wire... > > Thanks in advance folks. - Brian >

[traderpro2003]

Thanks to everyone for the tips, suggestions and awesome film clip (boo- yeah, Greg!). This has boosted my reduced spirits and given me plenty of things to try. Plus it gives me some reasons to practice. Cheers all - Brian

[Analog Aardvark]

I'm no expert but my .02: Air down. I run K270s at 15 (set hot when I pull off the highway to play for the day) and they're good enough. I wouldn't want to try it with stock tires. Getting going is the hardest part, once you're up and running it's not a big deal if you can make yourself relax. Having knobbies and low psi gets you through the hard part quicker. Weight back--if you feel comfortable standing, go for it. When I was getting used to sand, I would just scoot as far back as I could possibly go on the seat and still comfortably reach everything, it made a huge difference. At speed, standing is necessary with the whoops and bumps. The sand cliche's are all true--you don't have to pin it, but you do have to stay on the gas. The moment you get scared and let up, the front washes out. Weight back. and let the front dance, it makes no difference. light feel on the bars. If it's making you tired to ride sand that isn't whooped out, you're probably being unnecessarily tense. I don't think you're carrying too much--I ride with tools, tubes, pumps, water and I weigh well more than you to begin with... but don't underestimate the weight of the panniers themselves. Think about a tailpack or something. If it's convenient I run with less than a full tank, but I don't make a special effort unless I really plan on being in over my head. Don't bring the kitchen sink, but part of riding a KLR is not having a truck and a trailer to leave all that crap in. Have fun. -Luke --- Jud Jones wrote:

> --- In DSN_KLR650@yahoogroups.com, "traderpro2003" > wrote: > > > > Spent Sunday riding in Anza Borrego desert with my > brother. Coming > > from the east, I don't have tremendous sand riding > > > experience/opportunity, and my brother is new to > KLR family. > > > > Does anyone here that considers themself a very > good deep sand rider > > have any tips on how to tame this beast or should > I consult a KLR > > Whisperer? I tried to identify specific areas but > any suggestions, > > links, etc. would be most appreciated. > > > > 1. tire pressure - some say 15-20 psi. I dread > pinch flats and > > don't seem to 'feel' the benefit of lower > pressure. I ran 30 psi > > anyway. > > > > 2. riding posture - i found standing up knees > slightly bent elbows > > up/level to be the best 'balancing' position. but > damn, it's > > awfully scary hitting deep sand at speed and 'the > hump' decides to > > do whatever it pleases. > > > > 3. tires - i'm running stock. everyone else runs > knobbies and > > seems to have wider rear and front. can we get > any wider tires for > > the klr and do knobbies really make a "oh my gosh" > difference? > > > > 4. experience - i realize nothing beats practice, > so if it's merely > > going back for more and more white knuckle riding, > so be it. > > > > 5. load - i was carrying 3/4 fuel and 40+ lbs of > gear (tools, > > tubes, slime, food, water, rack, soft panniers, > etc.) plus rider @ > > 150 lb 5'9". to really enjoy the ride, need I > strip the gear to > > absolute bare necessities? i do prefer the safety > cushion. i tried > > to keep anything heavy as low as possible in the > panniers. but also > > note i carried 2+ liters in my Camelbak. great > for drinking but > > perhaps it added to balancing act up on the high > wire... > > > > Thanks in advance folks. - Brian > > > > > > > > > > Archive Quicksearch at: >

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